EPTIf so I will not be modkilled.
Emergency Mini Mafia!
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
If so I will not be modkilled. | ||
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Navillus
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On his claim I thought about the Miller knowing their role thing before the roles went out and figured that it really probably is the right play to tell town now as miller, in fact if it was most other people in this game I would take that as a pretty strong tell that he is in fact miller. But VE... Well I just actually finished a game that he was in and I hope he doesn't take offense when I say that he made a pants on head crazy claim in that game, I don't think that indicates that he's playing crazily here but of all of the players in this game he is literally the first person I would name as someone with the stones to claim miller as scum right from the start. On that line I'll say any other millers should claim now, if we have more than even 2 I would get very suspicious. Also I think it makes sense that he's saying not to check him, if he's making this claim it's obviously because he'll flip red, whether it's because he's miller or scum, he has no reason to say it if he wouldn't so any check would be totally wasted on him. | ||
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Wait what? What does 1 mislynch we can use on retarded townies mean? You should always always be lynching for scum. | ||
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Now looking at the votes on him I get suspicious, VE's vote which is now moved was very fast and didn't go on much, he basically read a couple of posts where artanis points this stuff out and says his meta is different and jumps on. This is suspicious but even more FOS: Mr.Zentor he has a couple posts about VE that don't indicate much then his first post where he says something solid is him jumping on ghost for 1. admitting that he is bad at reading VE which makes no sense and 2. for not following up on furer which I've mentioned. It just looks like Zentor isn't trying to talk about reads or cases, he just wanted to jump in and vote someone people were already suspicious of. Finally, Hyaach is just ringing all the wrong bells in my head, he has a few posts all talking about VE, they're confusing and most of them are him explaining this post - On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote: I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play. it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town. Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. which says nothing, it says that he doesn't want to lynch VE immediately which no one was suggesting then he says that the claim could be fake... or not! and that we should analyze VE, something he himself told us to do. This post isn't in itself that bad but it says nothing strong and he manages to post a fair amount after this without clarifying much or taking any kind of stance, so until a point where he does ##Vote: Hyaach | ||
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Navillus
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Because of this I'm particularly aware of how easy it is to start scumhunting on the active people when everyone talking can turn out to be town, I voted Hyaach because his only posts were pretty useless for getting reads (at least for me) and I wanted to make sure he would come back with more, I also didn't want to state that it was a pressure vote as so many people do because then there's obviously no weight behind it. I'm only saying this now because with everyone looking at me Hyaach doesn't need to worry about my vote at all, I also saw no need to vote MrZ (who I admit I do see as more scummy right now if only because I don't have anything to read hyaach) right now, we have a full 24 hours to go, I think MrZ's scummy but want to make sure that even if I think I someone's scum now that as many people talk and give solid opinions as we can get over the rest of the day. Per that I'm keeping my vote on hyaach, he needs to contribute, if he does and I like what I see my next choice would probably be MrZ. On that note Zelblade, Snarfs, and Paindain need to be talking more. @VE and Ghost - What do you think about BH right now? @ Artanis and Shraft - After me (and artanis after ghost) who do you find most suspicious? | ||
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1. and 2. are basically the same, fewer candidates and that's true anyway because if a mason comes up as a serious candidate he'll get confirmed and no longer be a candidate so for all practical purposes they're not in the lynch pool anyway. 3. has a tiny bit of merit but really they can be just as wrong as before and they can make the same cases without being confirmed, judge the case on the argument not the person. And 4. would be idiotic there are almost certainly 3-4 mafia, a joint claim of half to two thirds of their team would be suicide after a few days of neither of the "conf-town" getting killed. Either way as has been pointed out there are almost definitely no masons in this game for balance reasons so this discussion doesn't really matter. | ||
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Also whether he's town or scum one thing he brought up needs to be noticed. way too many people are getting away with lurking frankly with this many people getting to avoid posting anything of substance I wouldn't be surprised if 2 or 3 scum aren't even posting enough to get looked at. Zelblade, Hyaach, Furer, and maybe to a lesser degree Kat all need to post on something recent and give their opinions. | ||
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@VE So please explain, is what you just posted about furer your case on Panda? Is it a supplement to your case? (if so please give the actual case and answer the question I've been talking to BH about) Do you still even want to lynch Panda first or are you going to switch to furer now? | ||
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First I do not like the Pandain lynch for two reasons, one is what I was saying before I got off yesterday, I really don't see the reason for the claim, BH tried to explain it as him trying to become a confirmed townie but as someone pointed out before I could, no sane town would ever actually see the vig claim and believe him just because the person he called got shot if there's not extra shot to account for the mafia, this means that the best the claim does is get some gullible townies to think he's confirmed while to everyone else he's shot into the spotlight and aside from risking one of the few mafia it puts them in a worse situation as they'll likely have to use their shot that night on a target town tells them to or have their "vig" disobey what town tells him and become even less believable. The second reason is simply that I think it''s a bad idea to lynch a claimed blue on the first day, we can check him to a degree this night and if he's scum he's not going anywhere, their kp stays the same night to night anyway, also looking through how his lynch has gone since I left it built up steam very quickly and I'm sure that if he's town or SK that we'll find at least a couple scum on his wagon. (on that note I do see a real possibility that he's SK but if that's the case after telling him to shoot someone specific tonight if there are two kills tomorrow night we know to lynch him) The second reason that I'm happy with my vote in general is much simpler On June 06 2012 22:45 Hyaach wrote: Late to the party but did no one thought that Pand was fishing for information when he asked Masons to claim? He could very likely be a SK as well but either way his scum. I voted Hyaach explaining that he needed to contribute more and that it's scummy to lurk and not help town, after being specifically called out on it this is the best he gives us, it has to be made clear that lurking like this is very anti-town so I am in full support of moving the lynch to him. | ||
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I also would encourage any real vig we have to strongly consider shooting a hardcore lurker so we don't have to waste a lynch on them and because even if they're town it narrows down the lurkers making it much harder for scum to get away with it. If you're town and you haven't been active please it can only help town, even if you think your reads aren't good or are not positive what you want to push at the second, the very act of you talking in the thread makes it harder for scum to hide while doing no work. | ||
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Now working from the assumption that his claim is true we have a few possibilities and one thing we know is that he was RBed somehow. First there's the possibility that scum RBed him, shot someone else, and were blocked. That seems plausible though it requires both the scum RBer and the town blue that blocked scum (med/rb/jk) to have gotten it right, it's possible but not most likely in my opinion. A town RBer or JK could have blocked him and the scum shot be blocked separately, also possible (JK more likely) but unlikely for the same reason. The scenario that makes the most sense in my mind is he got JKed blocking his shot AND scum shot BH which got blocked the same way, it only requires for one blue to make their hit and we don't need to assume the existence of more than one other blue than BH. Now getting to that conclusion doesn't really give us much help with reads, there's no way any of those possibilities could be linked to furer so this doesn't actually indicate anything about his alignment any more than before the shot went through. The only new information we have is that there exists a RBer of some sort and given my thoughts it's probably a JK. With all of that said I do agree with BH taking the shot at furer and am annoyed that we couldn't get rid of him with a vig, given that he hasnt' posted in over 3 days I think we need to get rid of him and I hate assuming someone will be modkilled as if they're scum they have an annoying tendency of slipping in at the end to meet the activity requirement. So ##Vote: Furer If he does show back up with a LOT of content then I would also be quite fine with a Hyaach lynch. Beyond that I need to look at kat's filter, I still have suspicions about VE, and there are one or two people who are posting who I'm unsure of but would like to reread before posting anything. | ||
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Also in general we don't know if there is a jk an if there is who they jailed and we don't know about any possible sk, we do know about 2 RBs and frankly I think it's much more likely that one of the RBed people were the scum shot as if they were they're forced to claim or look like they're hiding it, than some possible way they were both RBed then a shotmissed for some separate reason. I'm on my phone so can't do much analysis but I'll probably vote hyaach when I get home for a combination of this and my past reasons for seeing him as scum. | ||
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My reads so far have definitely favored BH as a townie, honestly I don't really know his meta so those arguments haven't made a big impact on me (I'm not ignoring it but if this is some massive break then I wouldn't notice) and absent meta he has been playing what looks like a very townie game to me. His claim helps here especially over hyaach's claim as he took a shot that was good for town, he explained himself clearly and came right out with it with reasons to come out (it clearly couldn't hurt as he was 1 shot). Hyaach on the other hand has been suspicious, cryptic and lurky and his claim comes at a weird time and doesn't really clear anything up, so - ##Vote Hyaach | ||
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On furer honestly I think the only thing to read him by is his short exchange about VE, I don't think his disappearing from the game really has anything to do with alignment, I'm also hesitant to assume anything about his alignment based on WBG's actions given how this set-up is shaping up to look I wouldn't put anything past him. On Kat I don't think she's scum, I played scum with her in MTG and here she is much clearer and more consistent with her reads, she got some reads in the beginning and has stayed with them basically throughout the game and hasn't been afraid to argue them while from my memory in mtg she didn't take as much of a position and didn't really give opinions. @Snarfs & Shaft what do you 2 think about MrZ? BH you can answer too if you want | ||
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The only other major thing I see here is shraft's argument which seems to be based on Zelblades sort of flipping between Hyaach and BH and his weird explanation for his votes, this is a little more convincing, but it also isn't huge because on the other hand I've seen town do this type of thing fairly often as well as townies are usually much less worried about staying really consistent with their votes and reads than scum and are more likely to be ok flipping between people or not trying to vote the person that looks like it makes the most sense for them. Right now I don't like a Zblade lynch. MrZ on the other hand, would be a great lynch. he's been seriously quiet with his opinions about everything for a long time now, throwing in a number of one liners to look like he's contributing without ever saying anything that could be read or disagreed with. He jumped on both Hyaach and BH but never gives a solid explanation or a read that could be debated on either of them. He doesn't give arguments for why BH was scum or if not why we should lynch SK, he's basically been getting away with saying nothing. At this point in the game this is the ideal scum play if he can get away with it which he definitely will not. ##Vote: MrZentor I still have to look at Artanis, I'm not sure about him yet. | ||
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These are the two closest things to a case or argument he makes on BH + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2012 22:13 MrZentor wrote: If BH's roleblocker shows up between night and day, we should kill Furerkip. But if BH's roleblocker doesn't show up, we should kill him. Either way we'll probably get a scum. On June 11 2012 14:07 MrZentor wrote: Oh, I'm not your roleblocker. Sorry scum. ##vote: blazinghand I would post more showing how unwilling he is to comment on anything but you can look at his filter, it's literally a string of one liners that are absolutely useless, some of them even just one word. Then on Zblade he got even lazier with On June 16 2012 00:03 MrZentor wrote: I'm not going to be redundant. The reasons for Zelblade's guilt have been thoroughly exhausted. ##Vote : Zelblade Oh, and I'd be delighted to destroy any case anybody tries to make against me. being his only post on that lynch, all he says is that there are reasons so he doesn't have to make a case or make reads. MrZ is just trying to avoid any attention and he's been getting away with that for too long, and yes I have been lurking too obviously I'm not trying to deny that but when I have posted they haven't consisted of literally single lines that give no information and are impossible to read. Don't make the mistake people did in mtg of lynching people just because you have something to go off of for them and ignoring the lurking scum team. Also I just read ghosts dt claim and seriously I'm sorry but this is just an unbelievable suspicious claim, he claims dt but coincidentally 2 of his checks are useless to us and one of them is artanis being town which anyone that's read the thread could have told you (which is to say, why did you waste a check on him??) and even worse HE'S CLAIMING RIGHT AFTER WE WERE AT MYLO AND HE HAD A CONFIRMED SCUM. Sorry about all caps but seriously if it hadn't been for the modkill, which we absolutely could not have relied on given that he wasn't modkilled once before and could have jumped in at the lynch, we WOULD have lost right there and he's trying to say that he could have prevented that but decided that waiting ONE more night would be the difference??? Actually I would like to lynch MrZ or Ghost. | ||
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On June 17 2012 06:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I went through everyone's filter again and made notes (except Shraft, didn't get to him yet), and the person that jumps out as the most suspicious to me is Navillus. These are my notes as I read through his history: -Shortest post history -Comments on furer's mislynch thing -Null read on VE, would have stronger read on other people -Reads furer as slightly town -Doesn't see the Ghost case -FOS's MrZentor -Proceeds to vote on Hyaach -Weird reason for why he didn't vote on MrZentor -Continues discussing off topic with Pandain -Says he prefers to say too much (then why the short history?) -Thinks Pandain's claim is dumb but doesn't see it as scum -Keeps asking for other people to stop lurking, yet lurks himself quite a bit -Continues to hammer on lurkers while lurking himself -Believes BH's claim, votes Furer for a weak reason (inactivity), not dangerous for mafia as it never gained any traction -Apologetic nature of posts (I'm on my phone, I'm busy, etc) -Says he doesn't ignore BH's meta then basically does -Votes Hyaach -Suddenly doesn't think inactivity is a reason anymore -Says he reads Katina as town -Wants to kill BH because he's an SK and a good player, ignores logic against it -Goes after MrZentor when the zelblade lynch is basically locked in -Says he still has to look after me, yet never does before the deadline, feels like a Mafia that already knows they've won so gets sloppy First he defends Furer, then later in the game he calls his inactivity a reason for his lynch, then even later he doesn't think it's a reason to lynch anyone anymore. My suspicion is that this is because he thought furer would get modkilled and wanted to gain some town cred, but then when a vet like Palmar replaced him he suddenly didn't want to put any more heat on him. His exchanges with MrZentor have been interesting too. He starts out by giving him an FoS, then votes Hyaach. He also goes in against the Pandain lynch which was gaining a lot of traction, which doesn't really mean much as Mafia wants there to be some resistance to a lynch as otherwise people will start to think it's going too easily. Finally, he keeps commenting about lurkers yet he is the lurkiest player left. His posting history is only two pages long, and it really doesn't look good. Right now I want to see Navillus lynched the most out of all players, at least until I've examined Shraft. Artanis could you clarify what things you're saying are scummy here and how they're scummy, because with a lot of the stuff on that list I don't see why it would make me scum, but on the stuff at the bottom. First on Furer yes my opinion changed, first he looked like an aggressive newbie townie to me so I didn't want to jump on him immediately, then I wanted a lynch when I thought that he was just lurking and avoiding posting when there might be heat on him, at the time that I posted that I didn't think it had anything to do with alignment he had already missed a deadline (maybe two) I posted that because it seemed like he had totally peaced out of the game (which guess what? he had...) and I didn't and still don't see how someone leaving a game after like one day indicates alignment at all, I've seen more towns do it than scum. On MrZ I FoSed him because he was suspicious and voted hyaach to pressure him like I said several days ago, on Pandain... ok so that's just a reason that I still could be scum despite going against that lynch, makes sense, isn't a positive reason I'm scum. Aaaand lastly and this ones big as you mention it a number of times in your list as well, I lurk. Yes I've been very lurky, yes that's bad and I shouldn't have, but your letting that be much too large a factor in your case when we're at mylo and we can't afford to make a mistake because I've been lurky. Lurking was bad but it also in no way points to me being scum, check my meta, seriously, this in no way points to me being scum. And I will say that I still talk about MrZ's lurking for example because while he may have more posts than me you can't seriously look at both of our filters and think he's said more than I have, there's a difference between lurking and making posts just to have a post count without saying anything and not posting much but actually saying things in your posts, both are bad but the first is absolutely scummier. | ||
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Navillus
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Thanks WBG and Hiro, I really like this type of game and if I have time to play I'd love to do another normal mini. Edit: and WBG I agree that there is a lack of normal minis and I think it would be great if people could continue to host them somewhat regularly | ||
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