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On June 18 2012 17:10 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 16:07 gonzaw wrote:
Hey BB, did you consider that proposal I made? You need to find the SK to win, so I'd say you get started on that. Tunneltunneltunneltunneltunneltunneltunnel Seriously how do you get away with saying something then not even a page later saying something entirely different?
Aw would it make you feel better if I say that perhaps prplhz would be a better lynch than you? (I for once agree with Wiggles here that I don't think prplhz is town at all, although I think he's SK, but a SK lynch wouldn't be bad either).
Anyways BB, your behaviour right now since being called out reeks mafia, so it's making me more confident in you being one (for more proof of this check BB's last post).
If I change my mind on something it happens because I reread filters and the thread and I changed my mind. Something you promised to do several times here:
On June 12 2012 11:33 BrownBear wrote:Still figuring that one out. I will post when I have a clearer picture. There isn't really a time crunch at the moment, s o I hope you don't mind if I take my time during the night cycle and read carefully.
On June 13 2012 15:42 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:51 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, off to reread the thread!
(I think it will be the 1st time I'll ever reread a thread since it's beginning and not just read filters, I'm so excited!)
Up to page 11, and I already have new info and revelations :O :O :O
This is fun. Good idea. Since it's a small thread, pretty easy to do, I'd encourage more people to do this as well! I'm off to do the same thing.
On June 13 2012 17:19 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 16:02 gonzaw wrote:On June 12 2012 11:33 BrownBear wrote:On June 12 2012 09:39 gonzaw wrote:
So....who do you think is scum? Still figuring that one out. I will post when I have a clearer picture. There isn't really a time crunch at the moment, so I hope you don't mind if I take my time during the night cycle and read carefully. BrownBear, before doing anything....do you have the "clearer picture" yet? You promised to "take your time during the night cycle and read carefully"...I assumed you had done that in the night cycle, right? What did you conclude by then? I did not have time, unfortunately. With 72 hours to go at the time, I thought I would be okay not sacrificing sleep to get through the thread. I'm feeling like Radfield or Hesmyrr would be a good target. gonzaw already built a case against Hesmyrr that has some salient points (example: only appearing when his name comes up means he was reading the thread closely, but not contributing information unless he has to, which is a scum trait). I'm not 100% convinced yet because of hesmyrr's complete absence, but dude's got some 'splainin to do when he gets back. As to Radfield, I've mentioned a couple things about him that make me iffy, but one other thing I noticed. Take a look at a sampling of Radfield posts around lynch time and in the night after: Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 06:46 Radfield wrote:Rest assured, If you're still the scummiest player after I finish filtering, I will push you  Happy You're right though, he really only been 'in your face' with Palmar, but that doesn't make it look like a show. Can you lay out for me in a clear and concise format why you think MZ is the best lynch today? Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 06:58 Radfield wrote:
Chaoser, I don't really see the Greymist case right now. I certainly don't see much wrong with his response to the Vanilla Town thing. What specifically do you see as the reasons for voting Grey? Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 07:42 Radfield wrote:On June 12 2012 07:33 Hesmyrr wrote:I actually wanted to let the conversation play out longer and see if it further justifies my doubts, but since I already wrote about VisceraEyes - Radfield connection I'll try my best to explain why I feel bad about these two, which started from here. His first three paragraphs reveal he feels wish-washy about MZ and I found it suspect how he was being conservative with his vote even at that situation, not voting for his current biggest scum-read. The tone of post is such that it makes him open for voting both, like Radfield will post his case and will let himself be "persuaded" by VisceraEyes so I wanted to gauge strength of the argument. Then VisceraEyes started picking up bunch of freebie townie points by talking about it with him. I guess I just didn't see reason Radfield would refrain posting his analysis at this critical juncture. He did fix most of the problems I had with him at time of this posting so I'll see how his argument turns out and determine whether to stick with VE depending on situation. I do have to leave for moment but I will be back in order to change my vote if needed. I don't get it. You were here before that conversation even started, yet were making no attempt to push VE. Also, are you insinuating that me and VE are scum buddies together? Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 18:43 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, that's all well and good, but those posts are startlingly neutral.
Who would you have voted for yesterday. Who do you think is playing scummy. All of these posts raise questions, which are a good thing. However, the number of Rad's posts that raise questions is far greater than the number of posts that provide answers. This isn't scummy in and of itself, but it could be a way to hide a lack of contribution - you can say you're contributing by "provoking town discussion" by asking questions, but in actuality, you aren't contributing anything, which could be seen as a scummy action... Gah, I dunno. It's a ton of little things about Radfield's play this game that make me suspicious. But none of them are actually big enough for me to outright point at and say "this is good evidence for you being scum". I need to stop tunneling and look around some more.
On June 18 2012 00:57 BrownBear wrote:
I think Greymist is town because I haven't really been able to read through his filter, and don't have much of a read on him. I will do that.
Also gonzaw, don't try to play when you're drunk. Bad things happen. I'll wait for you to come back when sober and clarify what you meant by all of that.
But never fulfilled your promises.
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Well I feel lonely and bored with nobody around 
*cries*
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
prplhz, you need to start writing a lot.
Gonzaw, I haven't got around to looking at BB yet.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Man, Brownbear, Greymist, Wiggles, Prp. Who do you guys want to lynch tomorrow? Who do you think is strongly NOT scum?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I looked through Brownbear. I agree he doesn't look great, but I don't think he's the last scum.
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Radfield
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On June 19 2012 04:49 prplhz wrote:
You write a lot.
You're getting lynched tomorrow, because you've given us no reason to keep you alive. The prplhz I know is pretty good at being town, and pretty good at giving his thoughts. What gives?
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On June 19 2012 06:44 Radfield wrote:
Man, Brownbear, Greymist, Wiggles, Prp. Who do you guys want to lynch tomorrow? Who do you think is strongly NOT scum?
Aside from prp?
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Spent my TL time reading GMarshal's blog
I agree that right now I'm not doing a lot but that doesn't mean that I'm scum. It actually means that I'm town. Because I am town. Hopefully I'll be more helpful tomorrow.
Like, I am pretty sure that gonzaw isn't scum so I'm just sheeping him right now 'cause he's the most obvious non-scum there is. It's pretty hard to replace into a game where you are scum by default because of something someone else did (or didn't). I'm pretty sure I need to do something else tomorrow so I'll see what I can do.
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I think it's hilarious that so many people feel so strongly about me when they say that neither me or chaoser did anything. Is that 3rd party behavior? Scum behavior? Really?
@GreYMisT Why am I SK? I absolutely don't get it. I can see that I could be a default lynch that you'd just resort to if you didn't have much else, but I don't see how you guys can all feel so strongly about me.
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Scum behavior is not helping at all. You don't seem to be helping at all and most of your posts are about how you can't/arnt going to
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I just disagree, that's not scummy at all. It's not towny in any way but it's not scummy. Why would scum ever say "I'm not going to help at all", especially when I'm the last scum left? I can do whatever the fuck and write bullshit analysis 'cause I'd have no fear of doing anything that might potentially hurt my team mates. I only have me to worry about.
It's not that I don't care, I sheeped gonzaw for a perfectly valid reason. I read up on the thread and gave you my opinions. I think it's weird that you and Mr. Wiggles feel so strongly about me.
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On June 19 2012 07:11 prplhz wrote:
I just disagree, that's not scummy at all. It's not towny in any way but it's not scummy. Why would scum ever say "I'm not going to help at all", especially when I'm the last scum left? I can do whatever the fuck and write bullshit analysis 'cause I'd have no fear of doing anything that might potentially hurt my team mates. I only have me to worry about.
It's not that I don't care, I sheeped gonzaw for a perfectly valid reason. I read up on the thread and gave you my opinions. I think it's weird that you and Mr. Wiggles feel so strongly about me.
Your case against BB is "...he didn't do much else which makes him seem less townie".
Oh but its different for him right?
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Why is this suddenly about me?
It should be pretty obvious that I don't feel as strongly about BrownBear as you and Mr. Wiggles do about me.
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On June 19 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote:
Why is this suddenly about me?
It should be pretty obvious that I don't feel as strongly about BrownBear as you and Mr. Wiggles do about me.
Not mentioning radfield?
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Well....thank you guys for ignoring everything I've said these past few pages
(you know, some thoughts on BB would be nice)
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Proposal to scum
So scum, have you figured out who the SK is already? I'm sure you have some ideas...but I'm also sure you have some doubts.
I myself have some doubts as well. Some people expressed doubt that Rad or Grey could be SK, and well....they could. Wiggles could be SK as well, prplhz is an obvious choice, but also I could be SK in the minds of many people.
So...who's SK? Have you figured it out yet? If you did...are you confident in your read?
Remember, tomorrow you NEED to lynch the SK if you want to have a chance to win this game, so your whole game rests on that read of yours.
Now I tell you....why risk your whole game on that read of yours? Even if you play perfectly tomorrow and get the SK lynched, if you had a bad read and ended up lynching a townie you will lose (as well as we).
Now, I have an alternative for you:
Shoot the SK tonight
So, let's say you think prplhz or Grey or Rad is the SK.....I want you to shoot who you think is the SK tonight.
Why? Well, let's analyze the different scenarios: You shooting a townie and you shooting the SK
- Shooting a townie:
Tomorrow will be D5: 3-1-1
For reasons stated before, you have to get the SK lynched
You are not sure who the SK is though, so you need to gamble on a read of yours to get him lynched.
If you do get him lynched, then you will be in a D6: 2-1 LYLO
- Shooting the SK:
Tomorrow will be D5: 4-1-1
For reasons stated before, you have to get the SK lynched
However, since you shot the SK and he didn't die, you are 100% sure he's the SK. You know who he is so you are confident on your read on him. You know that if you get him lynched, he will flip SK.
If you do get him lynched then you will be in a D6: 3-1 MYLO
Now....can you see why this is better for you? Here I'll point out the mayor differences:
Shooting a townie:
1)You have to lynch the SK, but you don't know who he is
2)If you do lynch him, you'll be in a 2-1 LYLO situation
Shooting the SK:
1)You have to lynch the SK, but you DO know who he is
2)If you do lynch him, you'll be in a 3-1 MYLO situation
Do you see the benefits? For one, you'll be 100% confident on your push on the SK and will know that you only have to get him lynched. On the other hand, you'll arrive at a 3-1 MYLO instead of 2-1 LYLO, meaning it will be easier for you to hide along side that 1 new suspect.
Maybe you are asking yourself: Why should I trust you?
Don't get me wrong...I want to kill you as well. However, I already said this before: We have a common enemy.
Therefore, I'll do all I can to help you kill that common enemy of ours, while giving benefits to both of our factions.
Benefits to you:
The ones said above, you are 100% sure who the SK is to lynch him, and you'll arrive at a 3-1 MYLO instead of a 2-1 LYLO
Benefits to town:
We won't have a townie killed tonight, and because you know who the SK is we can gain info from this to get him lynched tomorrow, or at least to get him lynched later
See? It's a win-win situation, so I'd suggest you take this proposal.
Now, who would be the SK?
Well, if you ask my humble opinion, I think it's prplhz, so I'd suggest you shoot prplhz tonight.
Here are some reasons I think prplhz is SK
We still have 5 minutes before the night ends, so you can still change your night kill. I suggest you take 1 or 2 minutes to think about it and hopefully choose wisely your night kill.
Think about it...
Sincerely, Town
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Ok, I'm sure everyone already knows my stance on chaoshz. If you really want me to pick through what prplhz has been doing since he replaced in even though it's been pretty blatantly scummy, I can. Otherwise, I'd like to present to you the SK, our very own GreYMisT!
Now, why is he the SK you ask? Well, the major point is that he is maintaining a facade of being pro-town while not actually pushing his so-called scum reads.
Here's his filter for reference:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=120900
I'm going to focus mostly on his play since Day/Night 1, though what I'm saying applies to then as well. That starts on page 4 of his filter. The big thing looking through the filter from that point, is to ask yourself, "What has GreYMisT done or accomplished?". For example, he says stuff like he's suspicious of one person more than another, and he asks questions of people, but does he actually try to push for lynches?
For example, he makes a case on Radfield, and then quickly backs off. The next person he starts to feel out is prplhz. This post shows that he apparently likes a prplhz lynch more than a palmar one:
On June 17 2012 03:07 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 02:21 Radfield wrote:On June 17 2012 00:49 GreYMisT wrote:On June 16 2012 13:02 Radfield wrote:VE dying pushes more doubt on me. One, Palmars case against me rested on VE being obvious town, which he now most certainly is. Two, me not dying pushes suspicion on me as well, as technically I should be dead. I honestly would have been shocked if I'd been shot last night, and I expected Gonzaw to take a bullet. Thinking about it though, VE was almost universally seen as town, so his death makes sense by virtue of that alone.
What I would like to bring to everyone's attention is how this post happened after it became apparent that the VE lynch wasn't going to work. From my point of view a town player who thought VE was scum would have made a case (something rad actually never did at all). Instead what Rad did was sit back and watched if the VE lynched gained steam, and then covertly swapped off of it.
The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe.
Greymist, that is not how things went down. I did not simply put out VE's name and then sit back to see if it picked up steam. I read his filter, saw some things I didn't like, and mentioned that I thought he should be looked at closer. I then went and filtered every other player in the game(except Gonzaw) in an effort to find a good lynch. Read my posts at the end of Day 1. My thought process is clear, and I was trying to find the best lynch. When I went back to build his case, it just wasn't happening. Things I thought were scummy simply no longer seemed scummy. And I even mentioned that he didn't look that bad once I reread him. If I was really trying to push a VE lynch, I wouldn't have just said "there is a case to be made on VE". That's not going to pick up any votes, and is hardly even a condemnation, it's just me stating I found some scummy things in VE's filter. The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe. I admit I wasn't contributing for a time, but really we're talking about a chunk of time from end of D1-mid D2. Since then and before then I have been doing my best to contribute. Also, there were no careful steps to find a safe lynch. I didn't really like the MZ lynch, but couldn't see a better option and didn't want to lynch Palmar. Day 2 I was quite happy with a Hesmyrr lynch, as he was my top scum read. Anyways I'll weigh in on the lynch in the morning. Haven't read that case yet Gonzaw. The point was, when you posted that it was obvious that VE wasnt going to get lynched. From a scum perspective that would be a really easy way to swap off him after realizing it wasnt going to happen. I am completely fine lynching prp if he gives us nothing today. The only contribution he gave upon replacing in was basically him saying don't expect much. I'm not quite sure what you mean. I never "swapped off" VE, as I never voted him. I stated that I saw some scummy stuff in his filter, but wanted to look for a different target. Lynching VE day 1 doesn't really make sense because he's normally pretty easy to deduce as town as the game goes on. Also, I feel had I been able to make a strong case(which I didn't find), then there was plenty of time to lynch VE. The real issue is that upon rereading VE's filter, he didn't really look that bad. What do you think of Palmar Greymist? I think his play this game is highly unusual. I mentioned some things before the flip that I thought weird about him. It is possible that I have misinterpreted your actions regarding VE. Unless I'm mistaken its LyLo, so I have been reconsidering my vote on you quite a bit so I can be as sure as possible. I like your defense, and upon rereading I have decided not to vote you. Understand when I reread you, I was looking for weird behavior surrounding VE and MZ. I found some, but i realize that it would have made far more sense for you to keep pushing VE into day 2, as opposed to acting the way you did. Anyway, You me and Gonzaw appear to be it as far as activity goes. might as well assume we are all town right? (  ) joking aside, I again want to be as sure as possible, so lets get a real disscussion going . Would you guys really like to lynch palmar over say Chaoser/prp? I feel atm that he has a higher chance of being mafia.
Notice though, how he words the suspicion. He doesn't say, "I think prplhz is more likely to be mafia, so let's lynch him", instead he asks Gonzaw/Radfield if they would like to lynch palmar over prplhz. He's feeling out what the general attitude towards the lynch is.
Then again, he's sounding out where the general direction is:
On June 17 2012 03:58 GreYMisT wrote:
I'd like to hear everyone's 2 people they want to see dead today.
I am personally fine with lynching Prp and now Palmar at this point.
Notice he doesn't say he wants to lynch prp over Palmar, even though that was his original thought. Now he's just fine with either of them.
Then, during my argument with Gonzaw, he doesn't actually take a side, he just writes this:
On June 17 2012 08:51 GreYMisT wrote:
I agree with wiggles, a plan that requires the SK to shoot scum (when he doesnt know 100% even) is a plan that can go very, very wrong.
Implying that he agrees with me somewhat, but notice he doesn't actually push his opinion one way or the other. He doesn't say we should lynch prpl because my plan is correct or things could go wrong with a Palmar lynch, and he doesn't say that he thinks I'm wrong and we should lynch Palmar. This is also surprising, because in a way I gave him an outlet to vote for prplhz, who he said he thought was more likely to be scum than Palmar, but instead he doesn't. In fact, even though he said he thought prplhz was more likely to be mafia than Palmar, his vote never touches prp. After he unvotes rad, he holds it, which fits in with the idea that he's trying to sound out what people are thinking to slide along with the majority.
Then, he eventually votes for Palmar after it's clear a prplhz switch isn't happening:
On June 18 2012 01:17 GreYMisT wrote:
Im going to vote palmar, hopefully there are no objections atm.
Something to note, is that he mentions that "hopefully there are no objections atm". Why is he apologetic about his vote? If he thinks Palmar is scum, why does he care if someone objects to his vote? This is also at a point where Palmar was very likely to be lynched considering activity and the complete lack of discussion about lynching prplhz instead from anyone other than myself and gonzaw. So, why is he apologetic? Because he doesn't want to cause waves or step on anyone's toes.
+ Show Spoiler [Irony] +On June 17 2012 08:42 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 08:30 prplhz wrote:
Okay screw that.
gonzaw is not scum and no matter if he is SK or town he wants to lynch scum today. He's also putting in quite a bit of effort so maybe he's right. Palmar isn't doing much and I don't really have a huge town read on him. He just seemed townie when I read the game. Anyway, lets just roll with this Palmar lynch today. I'm just going to sheep gonzaw on an opinion I don't really agree with but that's how it's going to be for now.
##Vote: Palmar
If gonzaw is scum then gg wp. You should try replacing into a game where everybody thinks you're scum by default, it's not really all that fun. Its LyLo, now is not the time to sheep votes you don't believe in.
This is just a kicker but pretty funny when compared with GreY saying he likes the prplhz lynch more but then not pushing for it at all.
So, overall, GreY's behaviour over the last cycle has been exemplary of a vast majority of his play over this whole game. He is not actually pushing to lynch the people he suspects. Instead, he states a suspicion, and then follows along with how the rest of the town is voting. He doesn't argue for his own opinion, but meekly folds over like a wet noodle when it looks like there's some kind of opposition.
Now, you might ask, how does that make him the SK? Well, the answer is rather simple. It's because he's doing a rather good job of blending in. He isn't pushing his suspicions, so mafia won't see him as a threat when compared to players who are actually doing analysis and pushing for scum to be killed. Meanwhile, he's doing a good job of posting "reads", but not actually much reasoning or analysis behind those reads. So, town will be content to let him live, because they'll see him as someone who's posting his thoughts or being open. That way, he's not in danger of being lynched. He's living life in the middle of the road, not dangerous enough for scum to shoot, and not scummy enough for town to lynch as mafia. Add on to this, that GreY himself if posting about how the SK isn't afraid of being shot, so he'll be one of the most pro-town players in the game. He's moving any potential area to look for the SK into the more active and helpful players, and thus away from himself. Mafia already want to shoot there, because those are the most dangerous townies, and now town might want to lynch them as well, because any one of them could be the SK. This also helps by making sure the pool of players most likely to be able to catch GreY are shot by scum and also seen as suspicious so that hopefully they won't have enough power to lynch him.
Overall, this all adds up to point to the conclusion that GreY is the SK.
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EPT
