|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in  ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread). Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal
Are you referring to me here gonzaw? Because I've only ever been lynched once as town out of 20 or so games. That one lynching was day 1, as by midgame I'm generally either dead or very likely town.
I'm down with either a MZ or Greymist lynch at this point.
MZ, what in particular made my early play unradfield-like?
|
On June 11 2012 06:35 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread). Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal Are you referring to me here gonzaw? Because I've only ever been lynched once as town out of 20 or so games. That one lynching was day 1, as by midgame I'm generally either dead or very likely town. I'm down with either a MZ or Greymist lynch at this point. MZ, what in particular made my early play unradfield-like?
Well, I only remember Sleeper Cell 2....and that traumatized me for a while >_>
What do you think about my case on Grey, his response, and what about Wiggles?
|
why MZ? Greymist seems fine to me.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Bit too early to tell for Wiggles.
Something seems a bit off with Greymists posts, but it could just be what happens when a player gets called out for posting fluff at the start of a game. There's little but fluff to talk about in the opening of a game. Also, I like that he has been on today despite giving himself an excuse to be offline. It's generally a good sign when players do more than they say they will.
On June 11 2012 06:13 GreYMisT wrote:You accuse me of only posting fluff while I stated I would not be able to do much for all of today. Alright fair enough, but I ask you what is up with this: why bring this up now? there has not been a missing KP, nor has there even been a night phase. The only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch.
On June 11 2012 06:20 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:On June 11 2012 06:06 Palmar wrote:
There is no 100% of attention to be focused on a site that's already ready, and if we RNG by it I won't be awake to make the timing call nor see the result until next morning. so you're creating shit that doesn't exist. I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG. Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing". Last game you played as scum you started tunneling someone that was not too far in the spotlight very early in the game. Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction Irrelevant. Your entire case on Greymist is that he "posted fluff" which can be said about half the players in the game. Discussing a RNG lynch is by definition fluff, it's only what you do with the information that results from it that can be very helpful. Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game. He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone. VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose. However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it. After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy). They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum. They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that. I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement. Do you believe that Greymist has more chance than anyone else in the game to flip scum gonzaw? What do you think about Radfield? For now yes, either him or Wiggles. Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG. About Radfield:As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going. I find those very positive traits. However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum. That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal. However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread). Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal Rad said the exact same thing in the early game, and has also been talking mostly about RNG lynches. What are your thoughts btw? you seem to be hesitant to talk about it.
These two posts in particular seem off. Decent target for now, but again, it's still early.
|
Well, I'm "creating some analysis" this game, just like he said he wanted this game to be with...so he should really be happy about me right?
Anyways, I'll most likely keep pressuring him until he convinces me otherwise with some analysis or reads of his own, instead of trying to divert attention off him with strawmen/casting doubt/etc.
Radfield, what do you think of Palmar's sudden switch from "Let's RNG, here I even went through all the trouble to set up a site that does all the shit and shit" to "Okay I changed my mind, now I find MZ suspicious and I want to lynch him because of this reason"; when the only thing in between was my case on Greymist/Wiggles?
Also, what do you think of Palmar trying to divert attention off my Greymist case and on to MZ, and trying to discredit me as well (by saying that "last time I was scum I tunneled someone that was under the radar" and stuff)
|
To be honest I find that behaviour from Palmar suspicious as well, whether Grey is scum (and Palmar's trying to protect him) or town (and Palmar's trying to cast doubt and misdirect)
|
Radfield, answer me this please:
Show nested quote +On June 9 or 10 I don't remember 2012 who the fuck cares about the time? Radfield wrote:
In other news we could RNG a lynch. Ace, Palmar! GOGOGO! Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 09:00 Radfield wrote:
Can you hit me with the actual reasoning behind an RNG lynch. I honestly don't understand the benefit. Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one?
|
Gonzaw you avoided my question, or I missed the answer in the giant blocks of posts you made.
What do YOU think of an RNG lynch?
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 11 2012 07:00 gonzaw wrote:Radfield, answer me this please: Show nested quote +On June 9 or 10 I don't remember 2012 who the fuck cares about the time? Radfield wrote:
In other news we could RNG a lynch. Ace, Palmar! GOGOGO! On June 10 2012 09:00 Radfield wrote:
Can you hit me with the actual reasoning behind an RNG lynch. I honestly don't understand the benefit. Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one?
It was a semi-inside joke. Lately Palmar and Ace have been pushing RNG lynch Day1 in pretty much every mini they've played. I've never been convinced that it's actually a good idea, but it works well enough as a topic starter.
|
/facepalm
(please read the thread like I asked you to)
You also avoided a question I made to you:
What do you think of Wiggles?
Not only that, but:
What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him?
What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ?
|
I'm not trying to be antagonistic here Grey, I legitimately want you to read the thread, or pressure you about it.
|
On June 11 2012 07:38 gonzaw wrote:
/facepalm
(please read the thread like I asked you to)
You also avoided a question I made to you:
What do you think of Wiggles?
Not only that, but:
What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him?
What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ?
I have been in a car ride from pensacola to north alabama all day, and just got home, have a daypost to write, and have been very busy unpacking, and had a dead phone for most of the trip.
You will understand if i am not completely with it at the moment
|
I'm going to tell you now, but I'm writing a four hour long test tomorrow, so I'm not gong to be around much before the deadline, and I won't be posting as much tonight because I'm finishing preparing for it. Just thought I'd give you a head's up. I should be free after tomorrow, though.
Now, onto the game. In response to gonzaw, I made that post to take a stab at what I thought the benefits of RNG were. However, I wasn't sure if I was correct in my assumptions, and that's why I phrased it as a question. I didn't want to ascribe the merits of RNG and then argue against them myself, so I was waiting for a reply. Unfortunately, none of the RNG supporters have actually bothered say what they think the merits of it are.
Personally, I'm against actually following through with an RNG lynch, except in a few situations. I think RNGing a target and then discussing them could be a decent way to start discussion, and get people to either defend or attack a player and take a stance, but that needs to be done at the beginning of the day, and we didn't do that. However, I don't think we should just lynch that person unless there is an adequate argument as to why we should. So, in that case the RNG serves as a way to start us talking about players instead of policy or game mechanics, and then we find the lynch target from there. The only time I'd actually follow through an RNG lynch is if the entirety of Day 1 was so devoid of discussion analysis was impossible, but I rarely see that happen, and it doesn't seem to be happening in this game. So, I do not support actually lynching an RNG'ed target in this game.
I actually want Chaoser to answer my question from earlier, since he sort of side-stepped it:
On June 10 2012 09:20 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Haha, was that your first try, or do you just want to kill Ace? I know someone you might like to get to know better, I think you share similar interests. Radfield meet Chaoser. Chaoser meet Radfield. It's a perfect match!
There's no assurance you actually RNG'ed that, so I'm wondering why you want to kill Ace. Do you actually support an Ace lynch? Your next post looks weird too, asking if Ace is backing off RNG when he said you're jumping the gun and that your RNG isn't valid. False pressure, and all that.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 11 2012 06:48 gonzaw wrote:
Radfield, what do you think of Palmar's sudden switch from "Let's RNG, here I even went through all the trouble to set up a site that does all the shit and shit" to "Okay I changed my mind, now I find MZ suspicious and I want to lynch him because of this reason"; when the only thing in between was my case on Greymist/Wiggles?
It's to be expected. I still don't think anyone actually intends to go through with an RNG lynch, but rather uses it as a way to open up Day 1.
Also, what do you think of Palmar trying to divert attention off my Greymist case and on to MZ, and trying to discredit me as well (by saying that "last time I was scum I tunneled someone that was under the radar" and stuff)
I noticed it too, but it's a bit simplistic to draw any conclusions based off that. Either way, I'm happy having attention on both of them for now.
MZ was randomly slinging mud on me to start, when I'm player least worth focusing on Day 1. There is no medic this game, which means I'll either die or catch scum... or else I'm probably scum. It's fairly simple. He also popped in and poo-pooed the RNG lynch, which is exactly what I expect scum to do. Mafia want to buy town cred early, and shooting down the RNG(which is at least on the surface very anti-town) is an easy way to do it. He shot it down but made no attempt to move along the thread.
Again, it's early, but I expect more.
|
Interesting point there Wiggles 
chaoser? your response please.
|
RNG is very bad. I actually think the strategy do not even fit profile for townie; one signs up for a game in order to find a scum, not let some uncontrollable factor dictate the game for them. Moreover, it is even worse for this setup because there are only two scums (I do not count Iri Flina b/c she and mafia don't know others identity thus cannot influence the town to save each other). Therefore when someone genuinely discuss RNG it is anti-town move. Of course, I put off some players as null tells because there are townie justifications for doing so like misguided attempt to promote discussion, or a bait. Still there are some interesting suspects to be had, the strongest one being VisceraEyes.
He have several scummy behaviour, the most blatant one being his lack of concrete opinion about RNG. This post is terrible, I can't even tell whether he supports or hates RNG. It looks like VE favours RNG plan since he says "the chances aren't bad for hitting scum randomly", but also tries to weaken the statement with his last sentence and usage of "in theory". But then he agrees with BrownBear that he've "never liked the idea...it always stinks of scum" thereafter. Okay, I could have misunderstood the previous post. Until when he pops in next he is in support of Palmar's RNG website! What happened?
Then he wrote this which was exactly what I was waiting for since the RNG debate started. I actually waited a bit before posting to see what opinions others had. What I specifically wanted to look for was the post that encouraged discussion about way to perform RNG, because frankly it is nothing but a dead-end a.k.a. waste of time. The mafia would want to keep the town discuss about RNG as much as possible. Last paragraph of VisceraEyes tries to do that exactly. Note that even as a suggestion it makes little sense; like GreYMisT pointed it out, the suggestion negates out the only benefit RNG vote offers compared to actual analysis- he should know that, having said in his own words, "In theory, removing scum's ability to influence the lynch by agreeing as a town to lynch by RNG". Can I find any townie motivation for his behaviour up til now? Hell no.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
Everyone should note that same attempt to misdirect focus of town discussion has been made by GreYMisT two times. I actually haven't read the case on him yet but I will be keeping very close eye on him.
As a side note, chaoser seem pretty adamant on using RNG vote. Can anyone tell me if he held similar position in previous game?
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I really like that.
This is why you need to play more often Hesmyrr.
|
I spent way longer than I should have trying to write that. Is it possible for you to elaborate what felt 'off' about GreYMisT's posts? I was bit confused because you liked him for being more active, but settled onto him as "decent" lynch target.
|
On June 11 2012 07:41 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 07:38 gonzaw wrote:
/facepalm
(please read the thread like I asked you to)
You also avoided a question I made to you:
What do you think of Wiggles?
Not only that, but:
What do you think of Radfield? Do you think he's scum by the way you cast some suspicion on him?
What do you think about Palmar, and his switch from trying to use RNG to ignoring it and voting MZ using "analysis" ? I have been in a car ride from pensacola to north alabama all day, and just got home, have a daypost to write, and have been very busy unpacking, and had a dead phone for most of the trip. You will understand if i am not completely with it at the moment
Fair enough.
After you get your shit together, I hope for your contributions, and responses to my previous points (don't lurk though!)
@Wiggles: Please don't ignore my case on Grey, what do you think of it?
I don't like that wall of text of yours that doesn't say anything interesting at all.
If you will pull the same "well I'm busy/whatever so I didn't have time to read the thread thoroughly/ or something" card, then you guys really need to state that before making the posts you make.
There's no way we can know if you are legitimately busy or are just bored scum posting fluff.
On June 11 2012 07:46 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:48 gonzaw wrote:
Radfield, what do you think of Palmar's sudden switch from "Let's RNG, here I even went through all the trouble to set up a site that does all the shit and shit" to "Okay I changed my mind, now I find MZ suspicious and I want to lynch him because of this reason"; when the only thing in between was my case on Greymist/Wiggles?
It's to be expected. I still don't think anyone actually intends to go through with an RNG lynch, but rather uses it as a way to open up Day 1.
Well, that's not the answer I was looking for.
Yes, I doubt anybody would have pushed the RNG lynch for too long...but I'm asking for your thoughts on the timing of it.
I noticed it too, but it's a bit simplistic to draw any conclusions based off that. Either way, I'm happy having attention on both of them for now.
If you had to choose a lynch between Palmar, Greymist and Meapak right now, who would you choose and why him instead of one of the other 2?
About VE:
Yes, him stance on RNG is weird, but I don't really find that suspicious.
Mostly because he seemed too eager to post, and I didn't find that his discussion about RNG made him suspicious because of it.
Like I say in some previous games, the exact opinion of people regarding RNG, policy lynches, etc does nothing to indicate their alignment (unless they are too crazy about it); but what does is how that affects their behaviour throughout the day.
For instance, someone trying to discuss RNG throughout the whole D1 could indicate their alignment.
Because of that I want contributions from him first to gauge his alignment, preferably on Greymist, Wiggles and Palmar.
@Hesmyrr: I'd really like your opinion on Grey (after reading my case and his response)
As of now, I'd support a lynch on either Palmar or Greymist, or maybe Wiggles (reasons stated before).
I won't jump on a VE nor MZ lynch until they come, defend themselves and contribute something unrelated to RNG.
About chaoser:
My gut says he's town, because of his eagerness to make the 1st post and just "screw around" with the RNG idea.
I don't think he would even vote for someone based on RNG if he was scum and put himself in the spotlight like that.
Again...waiting for him to contribute with something unrelated to RNG.
|
Also, finally I can be in a game with VE where he can't claim blue! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/14xfjew.png)
