EPT/in
Looks like an awesome setup.
Pick Your Poison Mafia
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
/in Looks like an awesome setup. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between. For the poisons, since there are 7 poisons, and without medic saves the longest the game can go is 5 days, certain poisons should never really be considered. "Voting is done using a secret ballot" is really bad for town and is probably the one poison in my opinion that should never be chosen. "The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden" is a pretty bad poison for town and except when the upcoming day is lylo, it shouldn't be voted for. "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority+1 is required for a succesful lynch" are two poisons that are really bad in late game scenarios and tolerable early on, so they should be among the first poisons to be picked. One of them should be considered today, personally. "The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch" and "The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours" are personally ones that are ok later on, but really bad in the beginning as later on people will have strong town reads to vote for mayor and in the case of an innocent child being in the game they are a perfect mayor candidate and day shortening is not as bad when there are less people to analyze and choose from. "Lynch locks once majority is reached" isn't too bad - people just have to remember to not vote until the very end, just say what you are thinking about voting for when you would normally make a vote, but don't actually do it. Also, epic bluelightz flavor is back from LIII lol. <3 | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 30 2012 11:50 talismania wrote: An idea I had pregame: 1) It is useful to know which mafia role we elect, yet 2) Deciding ahead of time publicly gives them an advantage in picking the town roles. To get around this quandary, I suggest we encrypt our vote selections for mafia role, and post the encrypted results. I haven't exactly googled but I assume there are websites that do that (I heard this technique referenced in the pick your poison game). Then after the selection phase we post the keys, and we can subsequently tally the votes. The primary usefulness is that it reveals what mafia role is in play. Secondarily it has the benefit of forcing scum to lie, which could be situationally useful later: e.g. we elect GF as scum role with RB in close second. Then someone gets RB'd (for the sake of argument, let's say it's an innocent child for best case scenario). Now we know that someone who voted GF is scum, as the scum can't vote for their own role, and therefore their vote wouldn't count. Thoughts? I think it's a good idea. I had the same issue with the votes for mafia roles, and wasn't sure how to approach it. I don't know how much we can really figure out whether people are scum or not using this, but it's definitely good to have an idea of what mafia role is in the game. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
This looks like an easy way to encrypt our votes for the mafia role. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 30 2012 12:09 wherebugsgo wrote: I think we should have a mayoral election for day 1, or maybe even day 2. We'll probably have to use it eventually since it looks like one of the least mafia-favored poisons on the list. I don't mind the mafia +1 secret vote as well, as long as we find out where it went after lynch. If we choose the secret vote for mafia option, do we find out where the vote went after the lynch? I don't really agree with having a mayoral election early on. Early on is personally when it's hardest to identify someone as being town, especially in a setup like this, where so much time is going to be spent discussing setup in the beginning. This is when it's easiest for mafia to appear town, without actually doing anything. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
1a. Majority + 1 is required for a sucessful lynch 1b. The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote 2.Lynch locks once majority is reached. 3.The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch 4.The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours 5.The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden (ok, since it's lylo  NEVER: Voting is done using a secret ballot | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
"The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is personally not that strong when there are an even number of voters (like tomorrow) since votes will generally be at their closest 7-5, assuming that people don't no-lynch. Incidentally no-lynches are REALLY bad in this setup, as it increases the chances of us getting the awful "Voting is done using a secret ballot" poison. In a 7-5 situation, the secret hidden vote is worthless and does nothing. In a situation with an odd number of voters (which can happen as a result of medic saves, vig shots, no-lynches), eg. 4-3, the secret hidden vote can be powerful as it can lead to a no-lynch. So I think people should be choosing between these two poisons for tomorrow: "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch", but "The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is my choice for tomorrow, with "Majority+1" being for day 2. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 30 2012 13:04 slOosh wrote: I like that reasoning HiroPro, but it makes the assumption that we will be split between 2 candidates. No doubt that mafia will play to the poison, adopting a playstyle that abuses said poisons for their advantage. The secret hidden vote poison is most powerful when there are multiple suspects / lynch candidates, and weakest when the town as a total is consolidated and not near lylo. I'm inclined to think that D1 is the easiest day to fissure the town and bring up multiple lynch suspects and split votes, and potentially drive the fear of no-lynch into guide town into a mislynch. It will probably be a weaker poison on D2 where it is more difficult to bring up serious lynch candidates, opposed to D1 when bringing up anyone is all cool and no reason for suspicion. Right now it is even number, and unless we get a medic prot (which is great), then with one lynch and one night kill we will have even number D2. Thoughts on the lynch lock? I think you can apply the same reasoning to "majority+1", also right? I think most people will realize that since it's "extended majority lynch" that coming together is essential. I guess it doesn't really make much of difference. You're right; day 2 will probably also have an even number of people. As long as "majority+1" and "secret hidden vote" are the first two poisons chosen, it doesn't really matter to me. On the "lynch lock", I think it's a good poison to use midway through the game to go from the ok early-game ones that I mentioned to the ok late-game ones. It was used throughout "I'm a cop you idiot", I think?, and it didn't seem to cause too much chaos there. People just have to be disciplined and not vote until close to the deadline. I kind of agree with you that it's probably not best at lylo; that's why I suggested it for day 3. The reason that I don't want "lynch lock" on day 1 is that I feel that majority+1" and "secret hidden vote" get much stronger as the game goes on, so it's best to use them as soon as possible. Like, both of those make lylo impossible to win for town. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I don't like secret vote because in the event that the vote is close and the scum use it to pick one candidate over the other there's going to be a lot of distracting wifom debating why they chose who they chose. Better to just never pick that poison at all. I kind of disagree with this, because in the voting system that we have, "secret hidden vote" can never change the result from 1 candidate to another; in the worst-case scenarios all it can do is either change it from "highest vote-getter" to no lynch, or from no lynch to "highest vote-getter". So essentially it's like a secret pardon that only mafia can use, or a secret trap door too I guess. As long as number of voters is even and people actually vote carefully (consolidate on 2 candidates), "secret hidden vote" is not that dangerous. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I'm pretty sure HiroPro is right in that we only have to use five poisons (12 10 8 6 4 assuming there's only one scum left by the end and no vig shots or medic blocks or no lynches). So let's not get carried away thinking we have to use majority +1 AND secret mafia vote when we can just use majority +1 and never bother with the secret mafia vote. I'd prefer to be on the safe side and allocate six poisons. I don't want us to get in trouble just because we get a medic save. "Secret mafia vote" just isn't that dangerous; we can use that and "majority+1" day1/day2 (when those poisons are the weakest). http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html [b]Encrypted Text: ZZZZZ IKQND HLAHA GFAXM GRHFX WHJBP HVVJW QKGDM FLUER ECNNB DMNAN WUNJC IHLRU XHVXV AEKGV IHMJV XJAXL SCIPV EPLGD QQDLM PHKLT DXUIA WUGKM VQIAP WMXFD DQCOJ BUMZZ YYYYY | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Day 1: #3 Secret Hidden Vote Day 2: #6 Majority +1 Day 3: #4 Mayor Election Day 4: #1 Lynch Lock Day 5: #7 24 Hour Day Cycle Day 6: #5 Hidden Lynch Not Used: Secret Ballot Obviously, the hiding role/alignment of the lynch can be used whenever/if we have lylo. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ZZZZZ GJNLL IRXGM PUBSF MPAHF NLNXV TBBGF JGJHL SJSPW RWJUT SNNDC RCRGK ELJIK LROXB JVKHT FMJFW LIPWW IRBVP CQAJJ SUJCO PGQXN WRCCC WVCEW AVUWJ WBMKE XCVHH EIIZZ YYYYY | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 31 2012 08:32 talismania wrote: Was just about to post the same thing. I've been saying the whole time I really don't think we need to use both majority +1 and secret hidden vote. If there's going to be a day 6 somehow, then hidden lynch is fine on day 5 because we don't need to know the flip - either the game ends or it doesn't and secret ballot doesn't really matter day 6. Ok I see what you're saying. If it's day 5 with a possibility to go into day 6 (meaning that a medic made a save), it'd be 3 town-2 mafia, so the game would end if we got the wrong lynch. Ok, then I guess majority+1 never needs to be used. And then I guess everything can be bumped up 1, the way that Radfield says. The question then becomes, is mayor election better for day 2 or day 3? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Filters 1. Sbrubbles 2. Kurumi 3. Zephirdd 4. HiroPro 5. Navillus 6. prplhz 7. talismania 8. Toadesstern 9. wherebugsgo 10. Radfield 11. risk.nuke 12. slOosh | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Choose Godfather, I did. On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote: The mafia already know the voting results, fyi. Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake. Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote: Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this? On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote: All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker. Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between. A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote: A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this. I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0? On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote: Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW Choose Godfather, I did. Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake. Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about. That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote? Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing. So wtf? Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote: Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB. Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk. I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over. If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd. I have already explained to you why I didn't believe directly revealing my vote before day 1 was a good idea. Mafia needs to know what role is being given to them so they can pick appropriate roles to give to town. Town only needs to know what role was given to mafia when day 1 has started. This is why the encryption was a good idea; it locks people's votes so that mafia cannot change their "votes" in response to what they actually got, while town still receives the information that they need. If you really believe that mafia will vote exactly like how you expect them to (1-1-1), then lol. On June 01 2012 05:31 Radfield wrote: Hiropro, if you were mafia, what roles would you give town? Tracker, no matter what, only 1 member of mafia needs to carry out the kill and it's very unlikely that tracker will be able to track them, considering that mafia can choose who to send out for the kill. Additionally, since the role visit overwrites the kill visit, the chances of tracker being able to identify mafia by seeing them visit the person who died is even lower. Medic, if roleblocker is what is expected. 1-shot cop, if framer or godfather are expected. If the town team is much worse compared to the mafia team, vig instead of medic/cop. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 01 2012 10:49 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote Kurumi Kurumi is literally the easiest person on this forum to meta analyze. Any time he is town he's laid back and he doesn't care what he posts. He trolls, links videos, TF2 memes, etc. He is not cryptic as town but tries to be funny. I think his more recent scum game was jubjub, but I didn't read much of it. There was a game I caught him this way when I was town, and then there was AC where I used that tactic as scum to nail Kurumi as 3rd party. I find your case to be lacking. I don't see much difference between Kurumi's style this game and his style in L (the only normal game as town I could find in his profile). Posting pictures of Saddam Hussein and asking to be given double vig can hardly be considered serious. On June 01 2012 11:00 Navillus wrote: Hiro I don't entirely understand, if you think mafia would choose tracker no matter what why choose GF, RB seems like the best role to give them if we're probably gonna get a tracker. Because I feel that tracker is a fairly worthless role, no matter what scum team has. It makes more sense to me to give them a role that is really only good against tracker than to give a role that is effective against almost anything. Zephirdd Zephirdd's posting is not that of town. During the poison voting phase, Zephir spends most of his time repeating what others say (read through the thread at this phase). He offers very little insight of his own. On May 31 2012 04:54 Zephirdd wrote: Guys remember to vote on the voting thread! On May 31 2012 09:34 Zephirdd wrote: Kurumi and wbg need to vote On May 31 2012 10:32 Zephirdd wrote: On May 31 2012 09:34 Zephirdd wrote: Kurumi and wbg need to vote lol nvm im stupid wbg and someone else needs to vote >_>' On May 31 2012 11:21 Zephirdd wrote: I thought it was a whisky bottle judging from the flavor. Hey guys Kurumi already made a case! Discuss. Posts like these are posts for the sake of posting. Everyone posts like this from time to time; but for Zephir, these posts are a huge part of his filter. [B]On May 31 2012 11:25 Zephirdd wrote: Also, I don't like that Radfield was initially against registering votes pre-deadline. The Rad I know doesn't just "skim" by what people say. Still, his town meta is "too town to be town", and here is just... normal town. Or rather, near null. That makes him red in my eyes. Discuss. This is about as wishy-washy and noncomittal as you'll ever see in a "accusation" (Zephir's words). Not only did Radfield already address his initial refusal to do encryption, but Zephir is trying very hard to make an accusation without actually making one (3 different descriptions for Radfield's play in one line)"and here is just... normal town. Or rather, near null. That makes him red in my eyes." Zephirdd has a lack of useful posting, a large amount of "filler", and avoids taking strong stances. He is scum. Vote: Zephirdd | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 01 2012 22:15 Zephirdd wrote: Holy shit noone will ever get my name right, will ya? anyways, let me explain my thought proccess. Day0 people apparently forgot to vote or were forgetting the obvious; its very common for a player to forget stuff and then be reminded when seeing it on the thread. Heck, there were games I would only realize I hadnt voted when someone called me out. What is the problem with trying to remind the same? second, I changed opinions far too quickly. Basically, I was convinced by Radfield's arguments on the RB. Then Kurumi convinced me about Rad being scum. Then after the day, and wbg pointing out Kurumi's meta, I had to rethink things and decided Rad was right; if I could, I'd switch back to RB pick. I have to look at L though. but hey, yknow what is bad? Risk's post is bad. Points fingers at three people without saying anything. ps. Posting from phone is a pain @_@ This is a really bad response. Zephir basically just says "yea i did those things, don't lynch me though" and tries to throw suspicion on risk.nuke who is a really easy target because he's not posting at all. And later on he says something about how people shouldn't vote for him because he's an easy target because he has a lot of votes.... | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 02 2012 07:00 Sbrubbles wrote: His case on Zephirdd was that Zephirdd hadn't contributed to the discussion, though Zephirdd was asking questions, like Sloosh was doing, which is a reasonable way to get discussion going early on. Lol, someone didn't read my case or Zephirdd's filter. Zephirdd isn't posting any questions to spur discussion. The only questions he asks are to me. And in those questions, he never follows up and he only posts his opinion on my response after multiple other people have already said what they feel and he only does it when he is under pressure. You completely ignored the part of my case about his wishy-washy non-existent accusation on Radfield. You make no comments at all about what Talismania says. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 02 2012 07:24 risk.nuke wrote: I've been away. I apologise for those of you who care about apologies. My time have disappeared before me and I haven't put down almost anything into this game YET. Vote: Zephirdd And hey, wbg thinks I'm scum so you should consider me confirmed townie. I don't care about apologies. But I would like it if you explained your vote more clearly and I do want to hear some reads that you personally have, and not like the post you made earlier where you just say I want to kill this three people. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I still need to filter him though  LOL | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro Are you lying town or lying scum. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 02 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote: you are hiroprotagonist, aren't you? I think it's the 4th game we're playing together. I am not hiroprotagonist and I have never played a game with you in my life. I have played in newbie VI, newbie newbie VIII, and I am in Magic right now. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 02 2012 09:17 Toadesstern wrote: LOL I assumed you're hiroProtagonist who shortened his nick to HiroPro. Ok, I can understand why you thought that way. It's kind of funny lol cause prplhz asked me the exact same question. I will be afk for like 30 minutes, but when I come back I will go through filters for Navillus and Sbrubbles and tell you guys what I think/vote. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Sbrubbles: If his reasons for voting for me are what he really believes (which appears true for me), then he looks town to me. He contributed thoughts of his own during setup and seemed generally straightforward and open today. I am not willing to vote for him right now. I would like you to answer this question, though Sbrubbles. I can understand why you did not vote for Zephirdd based on my case (You think I am scum), but why is it that you completely ignored the case that talismania brought? I pointed this out before along with my feelings on the flaws in your reasoning regarding Zephirdd, but you ignored it. If what prplhz and Radfield say regarding Zephirdd's status as a blue is correct, then he is not a good lynch for today. I will expect more from him tomorrow, though. Radfield's case on Navillus is solid - I am voting for Navillus. Vote: Navillus | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Kurumi, if you really are the vig, please don't shoot prplhz. Zephirdd, it would be nice if you actually did say something about the people you looked. You went through a lot of filters. Surely you have something to say even if you don't necessarily have a strong mafia read on someone. What specifically made you suspicious of WBG? I would say that both he and Radfield led the lynch on Navillus equally, but for WBG you say that you are suspicious of him for leading the Navillus lynch, while the only thing you say about Radfield is "If Radfield is mafia I am doomed anyways." | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 03 2012 08:56 Kurumi wrote: Don't shoot why? That's it. I had some doubts but prplhz is dead for sure. Because I have a town read on him. Switching from multiple candidates is not scummy behavior if actual legitimate reasons are provided. And the reasoning prplhz provides is adequate. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 03 2012 09:06 Kurumi wrote: There are no legitimate reasons. Zephirdd is fine, huh? My personal feeling is that he is scum. But he has claimed blue "I'm amazed that I wasn't lynched. Thankfully Rad noted what I did there." and people seem to believe him. I don't think he is a good shot target for tonight. If he continues to play the way that he has so far, then he is scum in my opinion and I will push for his lynch. But I think today it is best not to take a shot. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Toad: I noticed that one of the points in your case on prplhz is that he made a push against WBG with weak reasoning. I agree with this. However, at a very similar time you yourself say that you want to lynch WBG. Please explain why why/when your suspicions on WBG dropped and why you believe that this is scummy behavior by prplhz when you yourself express similar thoughts. On June 01 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote: I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. Look at his day1 contributions. It's literally been two posts where he says he wants to lynch Kurumi because Kurumi isn't posting TF2 videos, nevermind that Kurumi did post pictures of Sadam Hussein and that Kurumi has played more seriously as town in his last few games. Also, we need to remember that we can't have people are majority-1, if someone is at majority-2 then you have to agree with somebody else to hammer them. This is because scum has a secret vote and will just hammer any majority-1 if they are town. I'm around, shoot me some questions if you want. I don't want to comment on everybody but I'll comment on some if people want me to. I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. On June 01 2012 21:50 Toadesstern wrote: I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point. Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP. WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 03 2012 13:43 Zephirdd wrote: Bntw posting from phone while drunkl. Hooray saturdays. I liedm. I was trying to grab shots in my face. Radfield, idk where you took that -m blue, but ita fun how you instantly bring that I'm not dead. My post at night was a roleblocker/shot magnet. I was not roleblocked so I assume there is a framer out there. toad, you tk a lot abou prp defending naviludd, but how does defending a town makes him scum? akso I want to see more risk posts. He is posting too little imo. [image blocked] And I agree with talismania on IC. But I really doubt we have one. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote: I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons. 1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town. 2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi). So you don't want to kill him because you think he's mafia; you want to kill him for information and because WBG died. I feel like lynching you right now. You haven't said anything about his "I wasn't actually claiming blue, I just went along with it." Surely that's an important thing to talk about when you want to push a lynch? Oh and Zephirdd, don't take this to mean that I think you're town now. I have you down as in the middle. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
[QUOTE]On June 03 2012 23:55 Kurumi wrote: [QUOTE]On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote: @Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him.[/QUOTE] There's no need to be rude. You never mention what parts of my case or talismania's reads or Radfield's reads on Zephirdd you agree with. The reasons that you mention have nothing to do with whether or not he is mafia. You are being extremely inactive and not making any proper reads or cases of your own. Don't expect me to treat you like confirmed town. I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch, when in fact that was not the case at all. Zephirdd and risk.nuke are both looking a little weird to me, but Toad's behavior is not only very scummy, but has clear mafia motives. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote: @Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him. There's no need to be rude. You never mention what parts of my case or talismania's reads or Radfield's reads on Zephirdd you agree with. The reasons that you mention have nothing to do with whether or not he is mafia. You are being extremely inactive and not making any proper reads or cases of your own. Don't expect me to treat you like confirmed town. I agree with Radfield. I don't find the "going to be there d2" scummy but both the push on me (the uneven nature of it, especially when I look at people like Sbrubbles who also pushed me but did it very differently) and the really strange accusation on WBG (especially when Toad attempted to use this in his case against prplhz) are scummy. Toad's response to my questioning on the WBG part of his case against prplhz was bad, especially since he misrepresents prplhz (says that prplhz continued to push for WBG lynch), when in fact that was not the case at all. Zephirdd and risk.nuke are both looking a little weird to me, but Toad's behavior is not only very scummy, but has clear mafia motives. ##Vote: Toadesstern (I will not be voting in the actual thread until much closer to the deadline) | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Toad has a clear agenda in hunting for mislynches. And Toad's responses have mostly been to the "alive on day 2 thing", which I don't really consider alignment-revealing, and frankly isn't something worth discussing further. He still doesn't really say why he tried to push a case based almost solely on a game mechanic. And he sidesteps the issue of how he went from "oh be a team player" to "confirmed mafia" to "lynch between these people is fine" by saying that "confirmed" is just a quirk of speech, and not something he really means and also with the whole "hiro protagonist-HiroPro" confusion, but that was well after the changing opinions. And Sbrubbles appears to have disappeared. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
For me, the lynch is between Toad and risk.nuke. Zephirdd's recent posting has been a lot better. While I think the case against Toad is strong, he has been responding in a mostly townie manner. Meanwhile, risk is walking around not giving proper reasoning or anything really. I think I'll go through some filters during my lunch break. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. On June 05 2012 03:05 Toadesstern wrote: a null and I can't really judge him because he hasn't posted yet... The fact that he doesn't want to lynch me is nice though :3 Hmmmmmmmmm. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I don't buy Toad's explanation on how his case against me developed. It doesn't make sense from a townie perspective even if he believed that I was a vet. This is Toad's reason for suggesting a WBG lynch: "WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here.". Completely ridiculous. The general tone of his response is townie in nature which is what confused me earlier, but he avoids and sidesteps the parts of the case that he can't answer. Toad is scum; everyone should vote for him. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:03 Toadesstern wrote: depends on the lynch. If risk flips red you obviously shoot rad. This is really poor logic, especially when you consider that Toad said a little while back that Radfield is probably town. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Let's kill risk.nuke next. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:44 risk.nuke wrote: I've mislynched toad in every single game we played exept Arkham where he could save himself by blueclaiming. And the time I decide to tread carefully that prick is mafia. Not fair. Don't worry, we'll help you atone for your sins  I am going to vote for majority+1. I think it's unlikely we have a vig to shoot risk.nuke and he will almost certainly be the lynch target for tomorrow. We can do mayor election on day 4 and avoid doing 24 hour day cycle. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 02 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote: A zephird lynch still looks awful for me. Hiros voting him, risk is voting him, navillus is voting him. There's bound to be a mafia within those 3 and Kurumi and talis are nulls for me. On June 02 2012 08:56 Toadesstern wrote: Ok people I'm willing to lynch in general right now: Hiro, Prplhz, Navillus In this first post Toad says that there is definitely a scum in between myself, Risk, and Navillus. However, a little while later after Radfield posts his case on Navillus (and a couple of other small posts by people), Toad decides that Hiro, Prplhz, and Navillus are his lynch candidates (has dropped risk.nuke from his list). On June 02 2012 09:37 Toadesstern wrote: I don't think a sbrubbles lynch is going to happen and I don't think it's helpful to cluster up the thread 2 hours short of the deadline when we need people to vote someone else... After the "hiroprotagonist-HiroPro" business, Toad tries to end discussion on Sbrubbles. On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote: got ninja'ed About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry. Toad says here that he's going to give his opinion on Sbrubbles (he never does this). Incidentally, it kind of makes sense now why Radfield/Kurumi felt so strongly about the "d2" thing. Didn't seem important to me as a quote, but it looks completely different in context (and knowing that he's mafia lol). On June 03 2012 10:59 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler + We lynch Prplhz today Here's why: On May 30 2012 23:16 prplhz wrote: [...] It's very important for town that we know what role we give them today to eliminate any sort of confusion. If we don't know what role we give them, then they can just argue as if they had any role, and town will just argue along with them. While it's very hard, I think it's very very important that we get a majority+3 on their role so we are absolutely sure what they got. This is even more important than what they end up getting. Tracker/Medic/Roleblocker combination sounds pretty good to me. What do you mean "without fear of the tracker caliming"? @Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"? I consider that mafia agenda. "It is very important for town that we know what role we give to eliminate confusion"? Yeah we eliminate mafia confusion by telling them what they'll get so they can counter pick, On June 01 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote: [...] What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke? On June 01 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote: I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. [...] I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. On June 02 2012 03:04 prplhz wrote: I'm okay with lynching Sbrubbles. [...] On June 02 2012 08:01 prplhz wrote: I'm up for Toadesstern since Sbrubbles isn't happening. That's a lot of people he's willing to lynch without saying a thing about them except for wbg. The "case" on wbg was "WBG hasn't posted, therefore he has to be mafia because he doesn't care about the game" while at least half the players in this game had very few posts at that time. The rest is a bunch of mentions without actually saying why and I already said what I think about stuff like that: Looks like people testing watertemperature with their toes to check out what can get momentum without doing something themselves. Furthermore Navilus apparently was on his radar for not posting a lot, just like risk yet later on he says Nav not posting is a sign for townieness? Will come to that next but that's really odd. On June 02 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote: @wherebugsgo I don't think that Navilus is scum. First, the guy has never played scum before. Second, his only contributions on day1 so far has been a post saying what he voted, and him calling you out. It doesn't look like he's just trying to avoid mod kill and it very much doesn't look like he's scum trying to hide with only 2 paltry posts during the whole day. I don't think first time scum will not do anything during the day than pick on a town wherebugsgo (but then again, are you town?) Moreover, in the last game I played with him he was also unavailable for a part of the game. You say that he didn't comment on the lynch, one thing that all scum knows to do at all times is have some sort of opinion on the lynch. I'd very much like to keep him around for now. How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie? Navilus defense #1 The reasoning here basicly is: "He never played mafia before. I think he would know better than to hide like that with only 2 posts." I'd consider that a contradiction. Everyone knows people who play mafia for the first time and what's the most frequent mistake those people make? They're not posting because they're scared and trying to hide to hard. At least that's how I have seen most people play their first time game as mafia. This defense makes no sense from a townie point of view no matter who nav was talking about in his two posts. On June 02 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote: Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now. I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum. Navilus defense #2 Again. He says that first time scums mosty try not to stick out, as in they usually want to hide, yet he says "he absolutely knows how to do this better than this". How in the world do you know he can do better than this if he never played mafia before? How do you know he's not scared to post like most mafias are in their first game? Again, this defense makes so sense from a town point of view. On June 02 2012 05:44 prplhz wrote: I'm really just asking if you can clarify what you said. Remember his posts from earlier? Sure wbg is not backing up a thing but he's giving his basic thoughts. Now look back a bit and check out the posts prplhz did when he wanted to hear oppinions / accused people. He said nothing, he simply mentioned the names except for the WBG "case". That's as hypocritical as it can get. On June 02 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote: Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me." I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time. I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before. Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think. ##Unvote Sbrubbles ##Vote Navilus Probably the weakest explanation for a vote I've ever seen. "sup guys. THAT GUY IS TOWN SHUT UP.... Oh, I guess he hasn't said he's sorry for being afk so long. Probably means he's mafia" Fancy conclusion:
Lynch Prplhz please, thanks. Toad's giant big case on prplhz. On June 05 2012 03:05 Toadesstern wrote: a null and I can't really judge him because he hasn't posted yet... The fact that he doesn't want to lynch me is nice though :3 Toad's opinion on risk.nuke My conclusions from Toad's filter: Sbrubbles is definitely worth looking at closely (he was one of the people trying to push a mislynch on me, has been extremely inactive and avoided most of the Toad-related stuff (came in late to say that risk.nuke is best lynch), and Toad avoided giving his opinion on Sbrubbles multiple times). Toad was similarly evasive on risk.nuke despite listing him very early on as possible mafia. risk.nuke: + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 22:02 risk.nuke wrote: I am pleased with radfield and I no longer want to make radpie. On the other hand I believe we could vastly benefit from shortening hiro by a head, turning sloosh into slush and murdering zepphird. On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote: I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons. 1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town. 2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi). On June 04 2012 00:29 risk.nuke wrote: @Hiro: Will I need to repeat every little thing so that your tiny brain can puzzle it together. I posted additional reasons for why zephirdd is a good lynch. It was not a new case because zephirdd already had a case on him. On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: Lets just assume we don't have a medic instead of using that as an excuse to justify scum-kills. If any of you were scum, would you give town a medic? That's like sabotaging for yourself so can we please assume the scum did not sabotage for themself and did not give us a medic. Radfield, since you've ignored my post. Why do you think they killed wbg? I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. On June 05 2012 05:06 risk.nuke wrote: As for lynches I'd like to lynch kurumi. If I can't get support for that I'm torn between lynching sloosh and sbrubbles. I'm not going to go through posts from risk.nuke's filter individually because it's so short and everyone can just read the entire thing in like 2 minutes. I've spoilered the relevant posts, though. risk.nuke has a habit throughout this game of suggesting lynch targets without ever giving any reasoning or thoughts on their posting behavior (hiro, sloosh, kurumi, sbrubbles). His biggest push is on zephirdd, but the reasons he gives are unrelated to actual behavior or posting. When I said this to him, he responded angrily and said that there was already a case on him, so no actual need to do such a thing. The thing is risk never lists which of the many cases/reads (myself, talismania, Radfield i think?) it is that he agrees with or which points specifically that he likes. This is not a townie response at all. Risk then soft-defends Toad by saying that he doesn't have a good read (despite Toad having a giant filter, multiple cases that he pushed, and numerous interactions with various people). And of course, risk has spent a large amount of time debating what WBG's death means. The thing about risk.nuke's filter that is so damning is that he never posts anything that I see as contributing to town. He darts in, gives a few unsubstantiated opinions, and then exits without having said anything of value. Unless he claims innocent child tomorrow, I want him lynched. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:07 Kurumi wrote: It is a happy hour ! Risk would be an awesome vigilante target. Oh wait ! Well sorry for yesterday wasn't feeling too well , going to do some work today after short school. Are you really a vig, lol. Like really. Because then there's no point in voting "majority+1" and we should just do the mayoral election. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Still giving out lynch candidates with no reasoning at all. I like the choices too. They improve your credibility greatly. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote risk.nuke | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 06 2012 04:27 risk.nuke wrote: Sloosh, most of your post is jubjub logic. You didn't say anything about my case. I feel left out | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 07 2012 01:35 prplhz wrote: ... we could talk about how we don't have a 1-shot cop, we don't have a vigilante, and we don't have a medic so we have a tracker and an innocent child? We also have some poisons left: 24 hour day Secret ballot Hidden flip Mayoral election I think we should pick mayoral election for tomorrow and then consider having the innocent child claim. If we find someone else that people will agree is town then I don't think we should have the innocent child claim right away because an innocent child in LYLO could be devastating for scum. We should consider if there's someone else we can agree to elect and if not, then have the innocent child can claim for instant election. Talking about who we think is town might also give us a little more content to find the last scum. If risk.nuke flips scum then there's going to be zero scum influence on the election so we don't have to worry about that. Also, if risk.nuke flips scum then hidden flip becomes a freebie. So does secret ballot. 24 hour day isn't going to be a problem if we ever get that far. So no more poison! + Show Spoiler + Also, am I the only one who thinks it's annoying that they're hosting Pick Your Poison and Pick Your Power at the same time and keeps clicking the wrong thread and thinking "since when did marvellosity play in my game?"  I was thinking about this yesterday. I still find it so hard to believe that they would give us an innocent child... But since cop still hasn't claimed, I guess you're right. Looking at the way the thread is right now, the last scum (assuming risk flips scum) likely tried to bus risk on day 2 and save Toad. Even if risk isn't scum though, the pool of scum is still probably in that group (tried to lynch risk on day 2, not Toad) | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
As far as your post on sloOsh, you will see that he articulates his reasons for suspecting Sbrubbles on day 1. Asking questions is not really alignment-indicative, especially for a player like sloOsh who asks a lot of questions both as town (LI) and as mafia (SoAF). Additionally, sloOsh was one of the first people to support Radfield's case on Toad. I see very little reason for mafia to support Toad's lynch at that point, when risk.nuke is a much better candidate to bus, or mislynch (in the unlikely case he is town). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Risk's flip does not affect my case at all, as everyone in the game has said that they want risk to be lynched. While it is true that discussion has stalled, I don't think this will carry over at all as a mayor election will come up and the last mafia still needs to be found (assuming risk is scum). I'll have my case and full list of reads out before the end of night. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Case on Sbrubbles On June 01 2012 21:09 Sbrubbles wrote: The case on Kurumi is partly based on his meta and I don't trust cases built solely on meta. What is interesting is that he makes his whole argument with basis on game mechanics (better yet, his opinions on game mechanics), which would be the "safest" way for mafia to be pushing for a mislynch at D1. It feels a bit scummy, but I'm still mostly null on him. The first thing that popped out to me from Sbrubbles's filter is this statement. Sbrubbles says here that Kurumi's case looks like a mafia one because it's based mostly on game mechanics. While this is going on Sbrubbles is pushing a case on me based entirely on me voting for GF instead of framer... On June 02 2012 09:30 Sbrubbles wrote: Bah ... I'm not sure anymore. Bugs/Toad/prlhz, why Navillus over risk.nuke? On June 02 2012 10:24 Sbrubbles wrote: I'm switching my vote to guarantee the Navillus lynch. ##Unvote: HiroPro ##Vote: Navillus Sbrubbles makes a vote to guaruntee a lynch without ever giving his opinion on the person's play or whether or not they are scum??? Miscellaneous Evidence There are a couple of other things about Sbrubbles's play that make me think he is mafia. He never offers actual substantiated reads about anyone except risk.nuke (who for reasons I already talked about, had to be bussed) and myself (who he attacked purely based on game mechanics and my voting record). His activity level was relatively high during setup and d1, when it's easy for mafia to blend in, but after that he's hardly said a word. And on multiple occasions, Toad avoided giving reads about Sbrubbles when directly asked. All of these lead me to conclude that Sbrubbles is likely the last mafia. And slOosh brings up good points also. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:25 prplhz wrote: ... but instead you're doing it now? why is this guaranteed win? ? I didn't roleclaim now. I said that if risk is scum, then I would have wanted to roleclaim tomorrow because that would give us 1 or 2 confirmed townies in addition to the people who are already strong town reads | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
It is very unlikely that we have a medic. Therefore, after tonight we will have only 2 days left, both of which will be lylo. The poisons left are secret ballot, hidden flip, 24 hour day, and mayoral election. 24 hour day hurts us and should never be used. Secret Ballot should be used when we have 1 mafia left maybe, but not tomorrow as we want to see the voting. Hidden flip does not hurt us at all, as if the game goes on, we know that mafia was lynched. All of that being said I think we should have a mayoral election tomorrow. Why? Because tomorrow is I believe the right time to roleclaim. Which will either give us 2 confirmed townies or a very easy lynch to choose between. If mafia does not counterclaim, the mayor should be one of the 2 confirmed townies (or innocent child if we have one). If mafia does counterclaim, we either have an innocent child or we have certain people who I think everyone should have as town reads (I will name who I think these are in my end-of-night post) as a mayor. In these scenarios, I believe that having a mayoral election is actually a benefit, instead of a poison. So I think the poisons should be mayoral election tomorrow and then hidden flip the next day. As for why not do it the other way (hidden flip tomorrow and then mayoral election the final day), I think that is a bad idea as the number of strong town reads/ blue roles we have alive will only go down. ##Vote: Mayor Election | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Roleblocker Nav Radfield risk.nuke Framer wherebugsgo in question: sbrubbles - framer kurumi - framer zephirdd - framer talismania - RB sloosh - framer 2 people from the above group are mafia and thus their votes do not count. If it's 2 framers who are lying, then we should definitely have a roleblocker. Thing is, no one has been roleblocked. If that is the case tomorrow also, then we probably have a framer. If we have a framer, that means talismania is mafia, as it is impossible for there to be a framer if talismania is telling the truth. Thing is I don't think he's mafia at all. Mafia might be hiding the fact that they have a roleblocker as they don't feel it's valuable to use. Probably best to trust Radfield's read, there's nothing except the vote count that makes me think talismania is scum, and I had a slight town read on him early on. Kurumi and Zephirdd are kind of hard for me to read. I think last scum is between them. Oh, I think Zephirdd's reasons for thinking slOosh is scum are bad, btw. Leaning towards Zephirdd as scum. If I die, I think the best course of action is to: everyone roleclaim, use whatever info you get from that, and lynch sbrubbles. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
So we obviously elect slOosh. I agree with lynching Sbrubbles today. Zephirdd is obviously not scum now lol. But I'm not sure about Kurumi being scum tbh. I was expecting a prplhz kill today, and it kind of looks to me like Zephirdd being killed just sets up a Kurumi lynch. I need to go over talismania's filter again and look at his previous games. I do remember noticing that he didn't make any real cases or reads - he spent most of his time doing connection stuff. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
First, Kurumi's vote on day 2 does not make sense from a mafia perspective. He votes for Toad very early at a time when a risk.nuke lynch was still possible. And it doesn't look like a bus. Second, talismania votes in a very strange manner - he votes for Toad right after prplhz says that he is going to hammer on Toad, but before prplhz can cast his vote. To me this looks like talismania is trying to claim credit for the Toad lynch although in reality he was saying in the thread that a risk.nuke lynch was fine also. Third, talismania has not really been giving proper reads/cases (except on Zephirdd) - instead he has mostly been trying to find connections between people. Fourth, the fact that no one has been roleblocked yet makes me think there is a framer (I just find it hard to believe that mafia would completely hold their block, even with IC being one of the roles, and then talismania has to be lying and mafia). I am not 100% sure, but I think Sbrubbles+talismania is the mafia team. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
The funny part about this game for me was I didn't really have a good reason for voting GF lol, I just picked it and I thought I'd think about it later but I never got around to it. And then I had to come up with something when everyone started questioning me. To be honest though, that's how I do most things lol. After that, I just saw certain people who I thought were town and then I tried to focus on one mafia read at a time. After d1, I had slOosh as a strong town read and Radfield, prplhz, talismania, Kurumi as slight town reads. I had Zephirdd as a strong mafia read (woops) and Toad, Sbrubbles (I lied about my read on him d1 because I didn't have enough evidence to support my case) as slight mafia reads. Radfield's case on Toad was really ridiculously good and after that I think mafia just lost too much influence. | ||
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