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Pick Your Poison Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 28 2012 19:13 GMT
#9
Can the framer actually only use their power twice, or does that just refer to the fact that they have two abilities? And for their second ability, they can select who visits and who was visited?

/in

Looks like an awesome setup.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 02:52 GMT
#45
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.

For the poisons, since there are 7 poisons, and without medic saves the longest the game can go is 5 days, certain poisons should never really be considered. "Voting is done using a secret ballot" is really bad for town and is probably the one poison in my opinion that should never be chosen. "The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden" is a pretty bad poison for town and except when the upcoming day is lylo, it shouldn't be voted for.

"The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority+1 is required for a succesful lynch" are two poisons that are really bad in late game scenarios and tolerable early on, so they should be among the first poisons to be picked. One of them should be considered today, personally.

"The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch" and "The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours" are personally ones that are ok later on, but really bad in the beginning as later on people will have strong town reads to vote for mayor and in the case of an innocent child being in the game they are a perfect mayor candidate and day shortening is not as bad when there are less people to analyze and choose from.

"Lynch locks once majority is reached" isn't too bad - people just have to remember to not vote until the very end, just say what you are thinking about voting for when you would normally make a vote, but don't actually do it.

Also, epic bluelightz flavor is back from LIII lol. <3
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 02:56 GMT
#47
On May 30 2012 11:50 talismania wrote:
An idea I had pregame:

1) It is useful to know which mafia role we elect, yet

2) Deciding ahead of time publicly gives them an advantage in picking the town roles.

To get around this quandary, I suggest we encrypt our vote selections for mafia role, and post the encrypted results. I haven't exactly googled but I assume there are websites that do that (I heard this technique referenced in the pick your poison game). Then after the selection phase we post the keys, and we can subsequently tally the votes. The primary usefulness is that it reveals what mafia role is in play. Secondarily it has the benefit of forcing scum to lie, which could be situationally useful later: e.g. we elect GF as scum role with RB in close second. Then someone gets RB'd (for the sake of argument, let's say it's an innocent child for best case scenario). Now we know that someone who voted GF is scum, as the scum can't vote for their own role, and therefore their vote wouldn't count.

Thoughts?


I think it's a good idea. I had the same issue with the votes for mafia roles, and wasn't sure how to approach it. I don't know how much we can really figure out whether people are scum or not using this, but it's definitely good to have an idea of what mafia role is in the game.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 03:11 GMT
#49
http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html

This looks like an easy way to encrypt our votes for the mafia role.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 03:14 GMT
#51
On May 30 2012 12:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think we should have a mayoral election for day 1, or maybe even day 2.

We'll probably have to use it eventually since it looks like one of the least mafia-favored poisons on the list. I don't mind the mafia +1 secret vote as well, as long as we find out where it went after lynch.

If we choose the secret vote for mafia option, do we find out where the vote went after the lynch?



I don't really agree with having a mayoral election early on. Early on is personally when it's hardest to identify someone as being town, especially in a setup like this, where so much time is going to be spent discussing setup in the beginning. This is when it's easiest for mafia to appear town, without actually doing anything.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 03:24 GMT
#57
So something like this is what I think the poison order should be (I say 1a and 1b because I think they have similar effects early on and are both not too bad):

1a. Majority + 1 is required for a sucessful lynch
1b. The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote
2.Lynch locks once majority is reached.
3.The lynch is replaced with a mayoral election who decides the days lynch
4.The day cycle is shortened to 24 hours
5.The role and alignment for the lynch are hidden (ok, since it's lylo

NEVER: Voting is done using a secret ballot



HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 03:49 GMT
#59
So thinking about the difference between "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch", I think "The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" should be the choice for day 1. Why?

"The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is personally not that strong when there are an even number of voters (like tomorrow) since votes will generally be at their closest 7-5, assuming that people don't no-lynch. Incidentally no-lynches are REALLY bad in this setup, as it increases the chances of us getting the awful "Voting is done using a secret ballot" poison. In a 7-5 situation, the secret hidden vote is worthless and does nothing.

In a situation with an odd number of voters (which can happen as a result of medic saves, vig shots, no-lynches), eg. 4-3, the secret hidden vote can be powerful as it can lead to a no-lynch.

So I think people should be choosing between these two poisons for tomorrow: "The mafia team recieves a secret hidden vote" and "Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch", but "The mafia team receives a secret hidden vote" is my choice for tomorrow, with "Majority+1" being for day 2.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 04:31 GMT
#61
On May 30 2012 13:04 slOosh wrote:
I like that reasoning HiroPro, but it makes the assumption that we will be split between 2 candidates. No doubt that mafia will play to the poison, adopting a playstyle that abuses said poisons for their advantage. The secret hidden vote poison is most powerful when there are multiple suspects / lynch candidates, and weakest when the town as a total is consolidated and not near lylo.

I'm inclined to think that D1 is the easiest day to fissure the town and bring up multiple lynch suspects and split votes, and potentially drive the fear of no-lynch into guide town into a mislynch. It will probably be a weaker poison on D2 where it is more difficult to bring up serious lynch candidates, opposed to D1 when bringing up anyone is all cool and no reason for suspicion.

Right now it is even number, and unless we get a medic prot (which is great), then with one lynch and one night kill we will have even number D2. Thoughts on the lynch lock?



I think you can apply the same reasoning to "majority+1", also right? I think most people will realize that since it's "extended majority lynch" that coming together is essential. I guess it doesn't really make much of difference. You're right; day 2 will probably also have an even number of people. As long as "majority+1" and "secret hidden vote" are the first two poisons chosen, it doesn't really matter to me.

On the "lynch lock", I think it's a good poison to use midway through the game to go from the ok early-game ones that I mentioned to the ok late-game ones. It was used throughout "I'm a cop you idiot", I think?, and it didn't seem to cause too much chaos there. People just have to be disciplined and not vote until close to the deadline. I kind of agree with you that it's probably not best at lylo; that's why I suggested it for day 3. The reason that I don't want "lynch lock" on day 1 is that I feel that majority+1" and "secret hidden vote" get much stronger as the game goes on, so it's best to use them as soon as possible. Like, both of those make lylo impossible to win for town.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 04:42 GMT
#65

I don't like secret vote because in the event that the vote is close and the scum use it to pick one candidate over the other there's going to be a lot of distracting wifom debating why they chose who they chose. Better to just never pick that poison at all.


I kind of disagree with this, because in the voting system that we have, "secret hidden vote" can never change the result from 1 candidate to another; in the worst-case scenarios all it can do is either change it from "highest vote-getter" to no lynch, or from no lynch to "highest vote-getter".

So essentially it's like a secret pardon that only mafia can use, or a secret trap door too I guess. As long as number of voters is even and people actually vote carefully (consolidate on 2 candidates), "secret hidden vote" is not that dangerous.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 16:54 GMT
#107
I see what Toad and Radfield are saying about roleblocker. While I don't really feel that medic/vig against roleblocker is really much of an advantage for us, I can see the chaos that gf/framer can cause (There's no way we're getting innocent child). But I still think doing the encryption is a good idea. It can't hurt.



I'm pretty sure HiroPro is right in that we only have to use five poisons (12 10 8 6 4 assuming there's only one scum left by the end and no vig shots or medic blocks or no lynches). So let's not get carried away thinking we have to use majority +1 AND secret mafia vote when we can just use majority +1 and never bother with the secret mafia vote.


I'd prefer to be on the safe side and allocate six poisons. I don't want us to get in trouble just because we get a medic save. "Secret mafia vote" just isn't that dangerous; we can use that and "majority+1" day1/day2 (when those poisons are the weakest).



http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html

[b]Encrypted Text: ZZZZZ IKQND HLAHA GFAXM GRHFX WHJBP HVVJW QKGDM FLUER ECNNB DMNAN
WUNJC IHLRU XHVXV AEKGV IHMJV XJAXL SCIPV EPLGD QQDLM PHKLT DXUIA
WUGKM VQIAP WMXFD DQCOJ BUMZZ YYYYY

HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 20:33 GMT
#126
Toad: I agree with you on the mayoral vote being a good mid-game poison and "secret hidden vote" being a good d1 choice. But I don't really get why you feel that "+1 majority vote" is bad for d2. I know that wheel of fortune had a problem with no-lynches, but looking at some other recent normal minis "C9++ and Mr Wiggles II", neither of them had any no-lynches. And day 2 is a time when you have stuff to analyze and look at; consolidation shouldn't be a problem.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 23:14 GMT
#148
Updated list of what I think the poison order should be:

Day 1: #3 Secret Hidden Vote
Day 2: #6 Majority +1
Day 3: #4 Mayor Election
Day 4: #1 Lynch Lock
Day 5: #7 24 Hour Day Cycle
Day 6: #5 Hidden Lynch

Not Used: Secret Ballot


Obviously, the hiding role/alignment of the lynch can be used whenever/if we have lylo.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 23:15 GMT
#150
And a new encrypted role:

+ Show Spoiler +

ZZZZZ GJNLL IRXGM PUBSF MPAHF NLNXV TBBGF JGJHL SJSPW RWJUT SNNDC
RCRGK ELJIK LROXB JVKHT FMJFW LIPWW IRBVP CQAJJ SUJCO PGQXN WRCCC
WVCEW AVUWJ WBMKE XCVHH EIIZZ YYYYY
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 30 2012 23:40 GMT
#155
On May 31 2012 08:32 talismania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 08:27 Radfield wrote:
On May 31 2012 08:14 HiroPro wrote:
Updated list of what I think the poison order should be:

Day 1: #3 Secret Hidden Vote
Day 2: #6 Majority +1
Day 3: #4 Mayor Election
Day 4: #1 Lynch Lock
Day 5: #7 24 Hour Day Cycle
Day 6: #5 Hidden Lynch

Not Used: Secret Ballot


Obviously, the hiding role/alignment of the lynch can be used whenever/if we have lylo.



Secret ballot is actually pretty non-scary once we only have 1 mafia left.

I would probably rather slot Secret Ballot into Day 5, bump everything else up 1 and take out Majority +1 or 24 hour cycle. Majority +1 is a poor Day 2 slot, and should be used for a day when we have an obvious lynch target.

Really though, none of the poisons are very dangerous if we use them appropriately.





Was just about to post the same thing. I've been saying the whole time I really don't think we need to use both majority +1 and secret hidden vote. If there's going to be a day 6 somehow, then hidden lynch is fine on day 5 because we don't need to know the flip - either the game ends or it doesn't and secret ballot doesn't really matter day 6.



Ok I see what you're saying. If it's day 5 with a possibility to go into day 6 (meaning that a medic made a save), it'd be 3 town-2 mafia, so the game would end if we got the wrong lynch. Ok, then I guess majority+1 never needs to be used.

And then I guess everything can be bumped up 1, the way that Radfield says. The question then becomes, is mayor election better for day 2 or day 3?
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 00:00 GMT
#157
I think it it might be better to make that decision when night 1 rolls around and then depending on our own personal reads, we can vote whether or not the mayoral election should be day 2. If it's not day 2, I think it has to be day 3. After that, the strongest townie reads would pretty much all be gone I think.


Filters

1. Sbrubbles
2. Kurumi
3. Zephirdd
4. HiroPro
5. Navillus
6. prplhz
7. talismania
8. Toadesstern
9. wherebugsgo
10. Radfield
11. risk.nuke
12. slOosh

HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 18:36 GMT
#192
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.


On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:
The mafia already know the voting results, fyi.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.


Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.


Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 18:54 GMT
#195
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 19:02 GMT
#198
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?



On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.


A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 20:03 GMT
#210
On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?



Show nested quote +
On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.


A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this.


I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0?


On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.


Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:
The mafia already know the voting results, fyi.

On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.


Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.


Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.


That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.

So wtf?


Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather).
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
May 31 2012 23:56 GMT
#225
On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote:
On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?



Show nested quote +
On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.


A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this.


I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0?


On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.


Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:
The mafia already know the voting results, fyi.

On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.


Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.


Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.


That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.

So wtf?


Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather).

Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB.
Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk.
I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over.
If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd.


I have already explained to you why I didn't believe directly revealing my vote before day 1 was a good idea. Mafia needs to know what role is being given to them so they can pick appropriate roles to give to town. Town only needs to know what role was given to mafia when day 1 has started. This is why the encryption was a good idea; it locks people's votes so that mafia cannot change their "votes" in response to what they actually got, while town still receives the information that they need.

If you really believe that mafia will vote exactly like how you expect them to (1-1-1), then lol.

On June 01 2012 05:31 Radfield wrote:
Hiropro, if you were mafia, what roles would you give town?


Tracker, no matter what, only 1 member of mafia needs to carry out the kill and it's very unlikely that tracker will be able to track them, considering that mafia can choose who to send out for the kill. Additionally, since the role visit overwrites the kill visit, the chances of tracker being able to identify mafia by seeing them visit the person who died is even lower.

Medic, if roleblocker is what is expected.

1-shot cop, if framer or godfather are expected.

If the town team is much worse compared to the mafia team, vig instead of medic/cop.

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