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On May 25 2012 02:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why would it be necessary to address a question about nova when I don't include him in my "people I'm fine with killing" list and when I've pursued Katina for so long over whether she actually thinks Nova is scum?
Clearly if I call katina scum at that point it probably means I don't think nova is scum anymore. Or at the very least, that I think others are scummier.
et again Bugs doesn't need to be held to the same standards as the rest of us. I'mdone being surprised.
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This is such a waste of time and thread space lol.
Anyway, Katina where are you?
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You know better than anyone that I don't give reasons for calling people anything but scum unless I find it necessary.
on day 1 my bar wasn't very high, it was to get a scummy person lynched. Mouldy got lynched without much effort so beyond that I didn't reveal much.
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On May 25 2012 02:25 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
because I'm trying to have a serious conversation here and you're still trying to turn it around on me to discredit anything I say in this game. You're posting with a purpose, pushing an agenda...the more you post, the clearer that becomes to me. Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record Bugs, you play every single game like a fucking asshole where I'm concerned. Every. Single. One.
it's gotten to the point where I literally can't stand playing with you.
On May 25 2012 02:41 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why would it be necessary to address a question about nova when I don't include him in my "people I'm fine with killing" list and when I've pursued Katina for so long over whether she actually thinks Nova is scum?
Clearly if I call katina scum at that point it probably means I don't think nova is scum anymore. Or at the very least, that I think others are scummier. et again Bugs doesn't need to be held to the same standards as the rest of us. I'mdone being surprised. On May 25 2012 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't have ONE post on Bugs marvel, to get the entirety of my case you have to read my filter marvel. I'm sorry if you don't want to do that, I understand if you're "pressed for time" or whatever, but the whole of my thoughts on Bugs is in my filter...it's not a case, but an ever evolving train of thought that keeps growing more and more certain.
Am I the only one who sees the patterns in the overlapping maps and conflicting reports.
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You still haven't revealed much. Why are you suspicious of Zealos Bugs? Why do you want Acid dead other than "He didn't answer my question" even though he did?
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Like, you asked Acid "Who do you want to kill?" He answered Zelblade. You then asked "..nothing to say about Zealos or Tunkeg?"
Now, here's the thing - he's already answered that too! By answering Zelblade and not mentioning Zealos or Tunkeg, he said very clearly that he has nothing to say about Zealos or Tunkeg! Yet, your reasoning for not discussing your reads with me yesterday was "Zealos hasn't answered my question"...but he did! He answered it in his very next post!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 25 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 15:17 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p
Since my original post got buried:
Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. Call him scum again? I've explained, in detail, why I think you two are scum TOGETHER. Me calling him scum "again" doesn't prove anything about anyone except that I still believe what I said I believe before dawn. On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us.
How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad.
But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know? This was what I asked after bugs has been asking Katina if she's sure Nova is scum. Here is bugs' following post. On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though.
I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order.
Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum)
By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum.
Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy.
If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline.
##unvote
##vote Mouldy Jeb
PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall)
Now, I put it to town to decide. Did bugs satisfactorily answer the question that I very specifically and very directly asked bugs? I think not, myself. Bugs would have you believe that I'm "self-centered". Well, let me try again. Here's a question I posed of Bugs. On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? Does bugs respond? YES HE DOES!!! On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? ?? I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well. Wait a second...sokaywait....you are only responding to things that matter, right? Didn't you just write: On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently.
Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town.
Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really.
Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not. ...the bolded? So in what way does "2 families vs 1 family" balance related question NEED to be addressed? How is that going to help us find scum?
I didn't quite know how to answer this in a coherent manner, so I've used red, blue and green to highlight.
Now, he didn't answer you directly, but he answered your red question in the same colour, ditto with the blue question.
As for the green, I'm specifically pointing at what bugs wrote. The point is that the question about two families of course did not need to be addressed, but doing so does not give information about reads to scum, therefore there was no potential harm in doing so. That's how I read it and it seems reasonable.
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EBOWP:
"Acid hasn't answered my question"
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Okay marvel, let me ask you because Bugs will pretend to be exasperated if I ask him.
If we don't talk about our scum reads with each other, how are we to find scum? This is the big part about Bugs' play that I can't reconcile. I'm town, and I don't know who to trust...but I can't hope to find out who IS scum unless I get information from others about their reads and the reasoning for their actions. Bugs is abdicating responsibility for hunting scum with the phrase "information about reads in the hands of scum is bad"....but he handily glosses over the fact that without discussion our reads and reasoning, there's literally NO WAY TO FIND SCUM. Otherwise, we're just pointing a finger, lynching and hoping it turns out okay. We can't just randomly lynch, and we can't put all of our trust in one person to tell us who to lynch when there's no way to know if he's town or not (especially someone who isn't even willing to discuss his reads)
It doesn't make any sense, the way Bugs is playing. It's contradictory, and I can't understand what the hell he hopes to accomplish if he's town....and I know Bugs is better than this, so that is why I'm certain he's scum.
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On May 25 2012 02:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is such a waste of time and thread space lol.
Anyway, Katina where are you?
Just finished reading the thread dear. Lots of pages to read this morning.
I really like how people are so focused on me when there are clearly scummy people like N_T and Mattchew.
One of those two should be the top lynch candidates for today hands down.
N_T has not nearly been as active today as he has been from the start of the game. He wants to kill me only bescause I'm pushing for him hard. He has been staying in the shadows today and only poking his head out when the votes start coming in on another player. May I bring up my past arguements against him:
1. Spam!
2. Spam!
3. More focused on proving his innocence than scum hunting (unless you want to call his only scum read on me as "scum hunting".)
4. Inconsistent
As I have stated he is only focusing on me and now by making that "Case" against me is a waste of time that could be used to find the Mafia.
As for Mattchew, I mean really? Do I even have to explain why I think he's scum and want to lynch him?
He has been completely ignoring me when I have called him out. Wait. He ignores just about everything and only comments when he has a qoute for it. He's not being helpful at all to the town and it annoys me that he is still alive and not being considered for the lynch. Others have commented on how annoying his qoutes are but yet no one has felt the need to vote for him.
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Katina can I interest you in a thrilling WBG, Nova, Mattchew, Zealos scumteam?
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Katina it's because his self-imposed restriction isn't telling of his alignment. Foolishness posted in nothing but limericks during the whole of Aperture, he turned out town...being annoying isn't a scumtell (or I'd have been lynched D1 apparently.)
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On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is such a waste of time and thread space lol.
Anyway, Katina where are you? Just finished reading the thread dear. Lots of pages to read this morning. I really like how people are so focused on me when there are clearly scummy people like N_T and Mattchew. One of those two should be the top lynch candidates for today hands down. N_T has not nearly been as active today as he has been from the start of the game.
Neither have you, or for that matter, a bunch of other players I could name. So what reason is there for singling out nova?
On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
He wants to kill me only bescause I'm pushing for him hard. He has been staying in the shadows today and only poking his head out when the votes start coming in on another player. May I bring up my past arguements against him:
1. Spam!
2. Spam!
You agreed that spam is not alignment indicative for nova, so why are you again bringing it up?
Hasn't VE spammed as well? Why are you not on his case for the same reason?
On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
3. More focused on proving his innocence than scum hunting (unless you want to call his only scum read on me as "scum hunting".)
Do you actually think this is alignment indicative? I think almost anyone does this.
On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
4. Inconsistent
Can you point out the specific instances of inconsistency?
On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
As for Mattchew, I mean really? Do I even have to explain why I think he's scum and want to lynch him?
He has been completely ignoring me when I have called him out. Wait. He ignores just about everything and only comments when he has a qoute for it. He's not being helpful at all to the town and it annoys me that he is still alive and not being considered for the lynch. Others have commented on how annoying his qoutes are but yet no one has felt the need to vote for him.
sure, he's annoying. Does annoying equal scum?
Mattchew normally annoys me in games actually, this is the first time I've seen him play in character. Not the best choice as lynches go but as it can run as an excuse not to post seriously it is possible he might be scum.
Mattchew would you be willing to play seriously from now on out? Your posts are incredibly annoying in their current form, and given how few people are actually playing to win it'd be nice if we didn't have to wade through more difficult nonsense.
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Oooh I can bugs I can! He's inconsistent on his read of YOU guy! That's one!
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On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
As for Mattchew, I mean really? Do I even have to explain why I think he's scum and want to lynch him?
He has been completely ignoring me when I have called him out. Wait. He ignores just about everything and only comments when he has a qoute for it. He's not being helpful at all to the town and it annoys me that he is still alive and not being considered for the lynch. Others have commented on how annoying his qoutes are but yet no one has felt the need to vote for him.
"If you want to test wisdom, offer it to fools and watch how they tear it up."
+ Show Spoiler [ALL THAT CONTENT THAT I'VE IGNORED] +On May 23 2012 07:21 Katina wrote:
I think for tomorrow's lynch candidates should be Mattchew or N_T On May 24 2012 03:53 Katina wrote:
You know Mattchew, your quotes are cute and all but I can't help wonder what your motivation is for doing so. The games I have played in with you are nothing like this. Are you and N_T Mafia buddies? On May 24 2012 06:39 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 06:10 Mattchew wrote:
"Mattchew will never be able to quote this." -Artanis "You are Scum" - Katina
+ Show Spoiler [no one has felt the need to vote for him] +On May 22 2012 06:03 marvellosity wrote:
##Vote: Mattchew
I just can't bear it.
On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.
Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.
On May 22 2012 18:11 Tunkeg wrote:
I am not sure if I can call this a case. But I really want to lynch Mattchew today. I don't have a long analysis on him, because well it is impossible to deceipher what he is saying. But my reasons are:
- He lurked through the entire start of the game.
- When he bothered to post it was all trollposts.
- I see his play as totally anti-town. And I can't see a reason to why a townie would behave this way, unless they don't care about the game at all.
Am I sold on the fact that he is scum. Not necessarily. But together with NT and Zealos he is the one I have the scummiest feeling about. The difference between Mattchew and these guys is that they are actually posting thing that you can analyse, and this can either strengthen the suspicioun on them or lessen it. For Mattchew he will probably keep this up the entire game, and whether town or scum really mess up the scumhunting environment. So I want to lynch Mattchew because he is as likely to be scum as the other two, but losing him if he is town is far better than losing the other two if they are town.
There is one arguement for not lynching him though, and that is: Would really scum draw this much attention to themself? Most likely not, but in TL Mafia where disruptive players never get lynched it would be a viable strategy.
##Vote Mattchew
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 25 2012 02:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay marvel, let me ask you because Bugs will pretend to be exasperated if I ask him.
If we don't talk about our scum reads with each other, how are we to find scum? This is the big part about Bugs' play that I can't reconcile. I'm town, and I don't know who to trust...but I can't hope to find out who IS scum unless I get information from others about their reads and the reasoning for their actions. Bugs is abdicating responsibility for hunting scum with the phrase "information about reads in the hands of scum is bad"....but he handily glosses over the fact that without discussion our reads and reasoning, there's literally NO WAY TO FIND SCUM. Otherwise, we're just pointing a finger, lynching and hoping it turns out okay. We can't just randomly lynch, and we can't put all of our trust in one person to tell us who to lynch when there's no way to know if he's town or not (especially someone who isn't even willing to discuss his reads)
It doesn't make any sense, the way Bugs is playing. It's contradictory, and I can't understand what the hell he hopes to accomplish if he's town....and I know Bugs is better than this, so that is why I'm certain he's scum.
This point is valid, and is one I've alluded to myself. I dislike posts such as these:
On May 25 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with.
On May 25 2012 02:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
Based on that alone I think there are at least two viable targets, but neither of them has received much attention. I'm gonna sleep on it for a bit and then if this Zealos thing doesn't take off I'll make a stronger case.
The first one is at best arrogant and at worst an abdication of scumhunting responsibilities. The 2nd... well actually yes, I would like to see the cases and reads myself, and it shouldn't be contingent on whether the Zealos lynch 'takes off'.
I expect to hear from wbg some more during this cycle on his reads. "I want the rest of town to do the work" or "people don't read" isn't a good reason not to present reads and cases. At the moment the way he's posted doesn't have to be scum, but if he continues to refuse to share his reads/cases, this will change.
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On May 25 2012 02:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
You still haven't revealed much. Why are you suspicious of Zealos Bugs? Why do you want Acid dead other than "He didn't answer my question" even though he did?
the case on zealos is pretty straightforward. You've reiterated it yourself.
Zealos claimed to have no scumreads on d1, and continued to do so into day 2, until the hiropro stuff basically. He's displaying a distinct lack of effort in terms of finding scum and when he does make cases they seem incredibly forced. He said he thought Jeb was town but still voted to kill him. That's the most damning reason.
the only problem with zealos being scum is that scum don't often blatantly admit they've done such a scummy thing, but I suppose scum have done more blatant and scummy things before. Anyway, I'm going to hold out till 22:00 GMT (+00:00) (4 hours from now) and if activity is relatively unchanged till then, I'll share more of my thoughts.
On May 25 2012 02:48 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2012 15:17 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p
Since my original post got buried:
Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. Call him scum again? I've explained, in detail, why I think you two are scum TOGETHER. Me calling him scum "again" doesn't prove anything about anyone except that I still believe what I said I believe before dawn. On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us.
How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad.
But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know? This was what I asked after bugs has been asking Katina if she's sure Nova is scum. Here is bugs' following post. On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though.
I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order.
Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum)
By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum.
Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy.
If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline.
##unvote
##vote Mouldy Jeb
PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall)
Now, I put it to town to decide. Did bugs satisfactorily answer the question that I very specifically and very directly asked bugs? I think not, myself. Bugs would have you believe that I'm "self-centered". Well, let me try again. Here's a question I posed of Bugs. On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? Does bugs respond? YES HE DOES!!! On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? ?? I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well. Wait a second...sokaywait....you are only responding to things that matter, right? Didn't you just write: On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently.
Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town.
Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really.
Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not. ...the bolded? So in what way does "2 families vs 1 family" balance related question NEED to be addressed? How is that going to help us find scum? I didn't quite know how to answer this in a coherent manner, so I've used red, blue and green to highlight. Now, he didn't answer you directly, but he answered your red question in the same colour, ditto with the blue question. As for the green, I'm specifically pointing at what bugs wrote. The point is that the question about two families of course did not need to be addressed, but doing so does not give information about reads to scum, therefore there was no potential harm in doing so. That's how I read it and it seems reasonable.
I like you, you can read.
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On May 25 2012 03:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Mattchew would you be willing to play seriously from now on out? Your posts are incredibly annoying in their current form, and given how few people are actually playing to win it'd be nice if we didn't have to wade through more difficult nonsense.
Not all silences are easily broken.
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Oh, I can't read now. Cool guy.
********RAGEQUIT INCOMING*********
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EPT
