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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 16:45 GMT
#694
VE would you kill Katina?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 16:46 GMT
#697
Nvm

It should be obvious I want the townies in this game to do work.

If I just say everything then town dies when I die.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 16:48 GMT
#701
Yes, you can apply the argument to me as well currently. However most people haven't agreed with you that I'm scum, have they? Some people have defended me.

Can you name a single player that has actually defended Zealos?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 16:53 GMT
#706
Marvellosity you just have to read my posts. I'm not giving you nothing and you know that. I'm trying to lynch Zealos just as much as you are, but as long as other players are defending him indirectly by voting other players, but not calling him town, we can't get him killed.

Think about it, everyone calls him suspicious but their votes end up elsewhere.

VE at this point is just being annoying and confrontational. I don't particularly care right now why he keeps calling me scum, since he's obviously wrong, but if today's lynch does not fall on scum then I'll take the responsibility for the lynch.

You can lynch me after and town can lose.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 16:56 GMT
#711
If it looks like a duck...
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:03 GMT
#718
On May 25 2012 01:58 Acid~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2012 01:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
Marvellosity you just have to read my posts. I'm not giving you nothing and you know that. I'm trying to lynch Zealos just as much as you are, but as long as other players are defending him indirectly by voting other players, but not calling him town, we can't get him killed.

Think about it, everyone calls him suspicious but their votes end up elsewhere.

VE at this point is just being annoying and confrontational. I don't particularly care right now why he keeps calling me scum, since he's obviously wrong, but if today's lynch does not fall on scum then I'll take the responsibility for the lynch.

You can lynch me after and town can lose.


I said I'd be OK for a Zealos lynch. I'm willing to change my vote from zelblade to Zealos if you can tell me why you think zelblade isn't scum.


Whether or not Zealos is scum at this point has absolutely nothing to do with zelblade's alignment and therefore I'm obligated to do anything for you in terms of showing you that zelblade is town or whatever.

Either you think Zealos is scum or not. Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:04 GMT
#719
*not obligated

My phone likes erasing things
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:09 GMT
#724
Scum tend to be more active at the start of the game and taper off later.

Based on that alone I think there are at least two viable targets, but neither of them has received much attention. I'm gonna sleep on it for a bit and then if this Zealos thing doesn't take off I'll make a stronger case.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:16 GMT
#727
I'm pretty sure no matter what I do you call me scum. If I vote with you, scum. If I vote against you, scum. If I'm afk and can't answer something, scum. If you ask me something I'm asking a potential scum (and therefore answering it would defeat the purpose of me asking that guy) and I don't answer, scum.

You've called me scum in every single game we've played for the past five games pretty much indiscriminately and you wonder why after a certain point I ignore you?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:24 GMT
#730
Man I'm not going to argue about this, I don't even know why I stopped ignoring you. If you want me to die so badly then continue to do what you're doing and I'll ensure that I die so that at least at that point people will listen to what I have to say, when I'm confirmed.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:37 GMT
#739
Why would it be necessary to address a question about nova when I don't include him in my "people I'm fine with killing" list and when I've pursued Katina for so long over whether she actually thinks Nova is scum?

Clearly if I call katina scum at that point it probably means I don't think nova is scum anymore. Or at the very least, that I think others are scummier.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:41 GMT
#742
This is such a waste of time and thread space lol.

Anyway, Katina where are you?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 17:44 GMT
#743
You know better than anyone that I don't give reasons for calling people anything but scum unless I find it necessary.

on day 1 my bar wasn't very high, it was to get a scummy person lynched. Mouldy got lynched without much effort so beyond that I didn't reveal much.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:05 GMT
#753
On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2012 02:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is such a waste of time and thread space lol.

Anyway, Katina where are you?


Just finished reading the thread dear. Lots of pages to read this morning.

I really like how people are so focused on me when there are clearly scummy people like N_T and Mattchew.

One of those two should be the top lynch candidates for today hands down.

N_T has not nearly been as active today as he has been from the start of the game.


Neither have you, or for that matter, a bunch of other players I could name. So what reason is there for singling out nova?


On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
He wants to kill me only bescause I'm pushing for him hard. He has been staying in the shadows today and only poking his head out when the votes start coming in on another player. May I bring up my past arguements against him:

1. Spam!
2. Spam!


You agreed that spam is not alignment indicative for nova, so why are you again bringing it up?

Hasn't VE spammed as well? Why are you not on his case for the same reason?

On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
3. More focused on proving his innocence than scum hunting (unless you want to call his only scum read on me as "scum hunting".)


Do you actually think this is alignment indicative? I think almost anyone does this.

On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
4. Inconsistent


Can you point out the specific instances of inconsistency?

On May 25 2012 02:57 Katina wrote:
As for Mattchew, I mean really? Do I even have to explain why I think he's scum and want to lynch him?
He has been completely ignoring me when I have called him out. Wait. He ignores just about everything and only comments when he has a qoute for it. He's not being helpful at all to the town and it annoys me that he is still alive and not being considered for the lynch. Others have commented on how annoying his qoutes are but yet no one has felt the need to vote for him.


sure, he's annoying. Does annoying equal scum?

Mattchew normally annoys me in games actually, this is the first time I've seen him play in character. Not the best choice as lynches go but as it can run as an excuse not to post seriously it is possible he might be scum.

Mattchew would you be willing to play seriously from now on out? Your posts are incredibly annoying in their current form, and given how few people are actually playing to win it'd be nice if we didn't have to wade through more difficult nonsense.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:07 GMT
#757
On May 25 2012 02:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
You still haven't revealed much. Why are you suspicious of Zealos Bugs? Why do you want Acid dead other than "He didn't answer my question" even though he did?


the case on zealos is pretty straightforward. You've reiterated it yourself.

Zealos claimed to have no scumreads on d1, and continued to do so into day 2, until the hiropro stuff basically. He's displaying a distinct lack of effort in terms of finding scum and when he does make cases they seem incredibly forced. He said he thought Jeb was town but still voted to kill him. That's the most damning reason.


the only problem with zealos being scum is that scum don't often blatantly admit they've done such a scummy thing, but I suppose scum have done more blatant and scummy things before. Anyway, I'm going to hold out till 22:00 GMT (+00:00) (4 hours from now) and if activity is relatively unchanged till then, I'll share more of my thoughts.

On May 25 2012 02:48 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2012 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 24 2012 15:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p

Since my original post got buried:

Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well.


Call him scum again? I've explained, in detail, why I think you two are scum TOGETHER. Me calling him scum "again" doesn't prove anything about anyone except that I still believe what I said I believe before dawn.


On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us.

How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad.

But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know?


This was what I asked after bugs has been asking Katina if she's sure Nova is scum. Here is bugs' following post.

On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though.

I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order.

Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum)

By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum.

Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy.

If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline.

##unvote
##vote Mouldy Jeb


PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall)


Now, I put it to town to decide. Did bugs satisfactorily answer the question that I very specifically and very directly asked bugs?

I think not, myself. Bugs would have you believe that I'm "self-centered".

Well, let me try again.

Here's a question I posed of Bugs.

On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs?


Does bugs respond? YES HE DOES!!!

On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs?


??

I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well.



Wait a second...sokaywait....you are only responding to things that matter, right?

Didn't you just write:

On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently.

Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town.

Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really.

Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not.


...the bolded?

So in what way does "2 families vs 1 family" balance related question NEED to be addressed? How is that going to help us find scum?






I didn't quite know how to answer this in a coherent manner, so I've used red, blue and green to highlight.

Now, he didn't answer you directly, but he answered your red question in the same colour, ditto with the blue question.

As for the green, I'm specifically pointing at what bugs wrote. The point is that the question about two families of course did not need to be addressed, but doing so does not give information about reads to scum, therefore there was no potential harm in doing so. That's how I read it and it seems reasonable.


I like you, you can read.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:11 GMT
#762
rofl
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:28 GMT
#772
On May 25 2012 03:13 Acid~ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2012 02:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
On May 25 2012 01:58 Acid~ wrote:
On May 25 2012 01:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
Marvellosity you just have to read my posts. I'm not giving you nothing and you know that. I'm trying to lynch Zealos just as much as you are, but as long as other players are defending him indirectly by voting other players, but not calling him town, we can't get him killed.

Think about it, everyone calls him suspicious but their votes end up elsewhere.

VE at this point is just being annoying and confrontational. I don't particularly care right now why he keeps calling me scum, since he's obviously wrong, but if today's lynch does not fall on scum then I'll take the responsibility for the lynch.

You can lynch me after and town can lose.


I said I'd be OK for a Zealos lynch. I'm willing to change my vote from zelblade to Zealos if you can tell me why you think zelblade isn't scum.


Whether or not Zealos is scum at this point has absolutely nothing to do with zelblade's alignment and therefore I'm obligated to do anything for you in terms of showing you that zelblade is town or whatever.

Either you think Zealos is scum or not. Right now I don't feel like sparing very much effort since there's no point when more than half of you don't read to begin with.


And I'm not obligated to follow your directions. Who made you king of the fucking hill? My strongest scumread is Zelblade right now and I intend to push for his death unless someone either

1. makes a case for zelblade's innocence (good luck)
2. makes a stronger case for another lynch

As I said, the case against Zealos is not inexistant, but it's not strong either.


You realize that in order to kill someone in this game, you have to convince them of your correctness?

In other words if you want us to kill zelblade over zealos then you should convince us to kill him instead of telling us to convince you to not kill zelblade.

It's called burden of proof; the burden of proof is always on the person making the assertion. If you make the assertion that zelblade is scum, then YOU should be the one to explain it. No one is obligated to show you why zelblade is innocent or whatever. As town I don't even know if zelblade is innocent.

Anyway, the case on Zealos has already been put forth; read Marvellosity's filter. If you don't want to do that then I don't see how you expect to win, as reading is mandatory to do almost anything else in a game of mafia.

You call the zealos case not strong. What parts of it are weak?


wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:45 GMT
#778
Mattchew; I get the feeling that VE wants the thread to be derailed into an argument about me vs him. Whether that's because he wants me to die because he actually thinks I'm scum or because he's scum is rather irrelevant at this stage. If we're both town it could be disastrous.

I want to see a mafia flip today and I don't think continuing this path of discussion will help us reach that goal. I agree that zelblade is scummy but solely because he hasn't posted much. However, compared to the other lurkers his posting style specifically doesn't come off to me as scummy. His thoughts seem genuine and his logic is clear. If he were scum I don't think that would be apparent. I could very well be wrong, but I really want to see zelblade post more.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:51 GMT
#782
Of the two, I think Zelblade is more dangerous. He hasn't posted a single analysis or scumread and was content with bandwagoning Mouldy Jeb.


That's your case on zelblade.

There is almost nothing to argue here, the only reason zelblade is suspicious is because he hasn't posted.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
May 24 2012 18:52 GMT
#786
On May 25 2012 03:43 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2012 02:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Katina can I interest you in a thrilling WBG, Nova, Mattchew, Zealos scumteam?


This can very well be the scumteam. NT, Mattchew and Zealos where my strongest day one scumreads. And I think you are perfectly right about WBG, I get a stronger and stronger feeling that he is scum. I also find it wierd that Mattchew suddenly start posting, now that you are fireing at WBG. Makes me think that the scumteam have decided that he needs to start posting and help out WBG.

So even if these guys are giving you a hard time don't give up VE. They do it because they are scum.


I almost want to kill you just because of this post.

I don't actually think you are this dumb.
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