EPTGonna play a game rather than reading them for a change.
TL Mafia LV
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
Gonna play a game rather than reading them for a change. | ||
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jaj22
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On May 25 2012 06:52 GreYMisT wrote: Only 4 slots remaining! Remember this is a normal game, i encourage new players to sign up and try this out! There's not even anyone intimidating in the playlist  | ||
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On May 27 2012 11:21 grush57 wrote: Lemony fresh victory shall belong to us! Claiming scum already?  So I was going to write a bunch of stuff about the criteria for electing mayors, but most of it is invalidated by the lack of nightkill protection, so just pick your favourite townie, I guess. Most important thing today is not to get sidetracked from scumhunting. @VE: Do you promise not to get into any dumb fights with Toad if elected? | ||
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On May 27 2012 12:14 EchelonTee wrote: A note: I will be slightly less active in this game then I have been in other town games I've played. This doesn't mean lurking at the standard I set in JubJub or Liar, but I won't be nearly as active as I was in MTG Mafia. I feel that it did not work the greatest in that game (game not finished, will not discuss further). Sure, this is probably a notch against me to be mayor, but I thought I would just put it out there. Ok, that worries me a bit. I like your normal town style a lot, and so far I've had correct reads on you in all the games I've read. How exactly do you intend to change your style? | ||
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@Grush: Making posts longer than one line would be a good start. Also I'm not voting for Sinensis because I can't read him worth a damn. | ||
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On May 27 2012 23:52 Manason wrote: I'm leaning more towards Mr. Wiggles at this point. He's the only one who has given complete sound reasoning on why he should be vice-leader. He promises to basically never use it. So if he does he's either just a bad townie, or scum. And he knows we'd lynch him. There is only one reason I can find not to trust him which is, Assuming he is scum he wants the position so a townie can't get it and so that closer to the endgame it can become the difference between a scum win and a townie win. I can find a few reasons not to trust Wiggles: 1. He's running specifically for VP, which is half-assed. Scum tend to be half-assed. 2. He's made a huge fluffy I'm-a-sensible-guy mayor post and ignored everything in the thread apart from a somewhat redundant question towards BlazingHand. On May 27 2012 23:52 Manason wrote: Also I don't know if this has already been brought up, but assuming the mayor is a good townie I think it's reasonable to believe that they'll be killed the first night, after all why would scum want a good townie in a position with double votes, it can only be bad for them. So we should start looking a little bit more closely at our mayor candidates, because if any of them have brains they've already figured it out they'll be dead the first night unless they're scum of course. Hmm. Are you actually new rather than a smurf? The possibility of jailers makes it extremely risky for scum to hit a good townie with the mayor role, even with doublestacked KP. | ||
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@Hyaach: What do you think about Kitaman voting for you? Or anything else, for that matter. @Wiggles: What do you think about strongandbig? He's your main competitor on current form. To the 60% of players who haven't posted at all yet, please do. No need to feel intimidated. | ||
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On May 28 2012 03:14 Forumite wrote: It´s the other way around, those running for mayor have allready gotten their roles, and it´s likely that a lyncher has joined them because it´s good for a lyncher to become Mayor and immediately lynch his target, it´s MORE likely that one of the candidates is a lyncher. Yes, but the prominent candidates were very likely to put in campaigns regardless. I'd have been surprised if BH, ET and VE hadn't put in a campaign, while strongandbig and Wiggles aren't even pushing for mayor. I suppose Toad is now a plausible lyncher, as his claim can't be "proved" until day 2. Would be a risky play though. On May 28 2012 03:14 Forumite wrote: The lynchers target is also likely town, because there are more town in the game. Hmm. Lyncher/assassin targets will probably be flavour-related, and I suspect around half the named characters are town. Not sure about a lyncher with a scum target from a balance POV though, so you might be right for other reasons. @Toad: I notice that your correct day 1 reads are all veterans. What do you think of the veterans so far in this game? | ||
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Right? | ||
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On May 28 2012 07:11 Toadesstern wrote: Also I have a super secret I haven't told about my super awesome powers which works against manipulation. Ugh, AC flashbacks. I'm not really feeling this ET case. The main arcs seem to be: 1. Manipulating newbies by... promising to listen to them and not just dismiss them as useless? Fine by me. Wish everyone did that. 2. Overstating the importance of the elected roles. True, but I'm not sure how this is a scumtell. 3. Not having much in his filter apart from mayor-agenda. Yeah, because it's all from three hours into the game. Not that ET's filter is squeaky clean (the part where he draws BH away from strongandbig is particularly interesting), but as you should have noticed, it's tough to campaign without doing anything suspicious. On that note, I'd be surprised if scum made much of an attempt at the elections. Without bodyguards, the risk (from campaign scrutiny) surely outweighs the reward. I think only the most ballsy scum players would bother. | ||
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On May 28 2012 07:40 kitaman27 wrote: Are you running for mayor jaj? I'm not inclined to because I don't deal well with the spotlight, even as town. I lose sleep and then I can't think straight. If people really think the other mayor choices are bad then feel free to vote me. My other concern is that the closest thing I have to a scum read so far is a guy with a two-line post. It's possible that scum aren't bothering to contribute, given that they have plenty of town no-shows to hide amongst. | ||
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Meanwhile Kenpachi has this: So ##FoS Sinensis At this rate though I think I'm going to be recommending a lurker-lynch tomorrow. Should be close to a 50/50 shot if we actually manage to elect a town mayor. My current preference is Hyaach, for making one bad post and vanishing. Also some posters (austinmcc and GambitX32 spring to mind) seem to think that one sensible-looking post is sufficient to get them clear of suspicion. It is not. | ||
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On May 28 2012 12:47 Pandain wrote:  You'll be replacing in soon enough, I suspect. Oh yeah, I forgot Mattchew in my lurker list. No-one watches Starcraft all day, do they? | ||
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strongandbig: Yeah, he half-arsed a pardoner campaign and hasn't done anything since. However, he's a conservative player and so I doubt he'd campaign as scum. His recent lack of posting may be because he's dispirited after screwing up his campaign and getting into that unnecessary scrap with BH. Probably an alien emotion to many people here. He's normally a pretty easy read and makes decent cases as town, so hopefully he'll make some decent posts before the deadline. Kitaman: I nearly jumped on his opening post, but I figured it was mostly trolling and trying to get Hyaach to post so I left it alone. His posts have looked fairly constructive to me so far. Sinensis: So he's sticking with a totally irrational and anti-town position and ignoring everything that's actually happening in the game? Because he wants to lose two games in a row? If he's scum he was daft not to change tactics once Grush started posting better (like BH did). If he's town, it's now insultingly bad play, which makes his complaint about Grush utterly hypocritical. Scum read, because the alternative is uglier. Toad -> pardoner stuff: I think Toad is most likely a real town mason, but I think VE has a valid point about giving the pardoner role to the lyncher. If the lyncher survives to LYLO and their target isn't lynched, it makes sense for them to pardon to keep their win condition alive. Therefore if Toad is roleblockable, electing him to pardoner is likely to result in a day 2 shitstorm and a possible wasted lynch. So we need to compare that risk to the risk that either Wiggles or ET are scum. ET just looks town to me, while Wiggles is clearly trying very hard. Almost too hard, but I probably shouldn't hold that against him. I think on balance we should just elect the two of them. | ||
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On May 28 2012 06:44 papapanda wrote: Grush+Sinensis+pppanda reunion lets kick ass(dont tell BH)! Oh Hai Blazinghand. When you posted this, Sinensis and BH were campaigning on the basis of lynching Grush. Any reason why you didn't think that was worth mentioning? | ||
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I think the reasonable conclusion is that we a) don't elect Toad to anything and b) cut down discussion on him until day 2 at least. He might be near-confirmed town by then, and then we won't have to worry. | ||
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He goes into the general category of players with a handful of uncontroversial posts. I'd be surprised if there weren't scum in there. | ||
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On May 29 2012 05:05 EchelonTee wrote: RE: Sinensis I highly disagree with a Sinensis lynch at this time. Sinensis is a player who has much improved since his first few games, but people who have played with him should remember that he can be very stubborn and set in his reads. In SoaF, convinced that BH was scum, he voted BH before the Day Post had come, where BH promptly flipped town doctor. In surprisingly normal VII, he wanted to lynch prplhz, a claimed vig who had shot scum. Sinensis is someone who can have a read and will stick to it until he dies. Ugh. I remember NMMI now. It doesn't excuse his lack of other interest in the game though. He suspected prplhz all game in NMMI but that didn't stop him contributing other reads, voting for other players or generally participating in the game. Does he think that having a mayoral campaign excuses him from other participation? The evidence of irrational town play does reduce the chance of him flipping scum so I'll look for better targets. | ||
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On May 29 2012 05:22 EchelonTee wrote: Something to note; almost all people have said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Some have said the same about SnB, but many have said "I am sort of suspicious, but want more info first". Some players who haven't said "I would be down with killing Sinensis!". Probably not a complete list: papapanda: Ignored the issue, despite mentioning BH, Grush and Sinensis and having played LIV. austinmcc: Very hedgy post on Grush vs Sinensis. Supersoft: Ignored the issue. Hyaach: Doesn't want policy lynch, but ignored Sinensis question otherwise. Toad: Thinks Sinensis's play is too bold for a mafia. Plus all the lurkers who have said nothing about anything. | ||
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Do I take it that anyone who's currently voting ET is fine with a SnB lynch? @Sinensis: You're not going to post any reads at all? Your campaign is long-dead and none of the contenders are interested in your policy lynch, so what the hell are you doing? Are you going to keep pushing Grush for the rest of the game? @SToFu: Who do you think is scum? | ||
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I'd also like to register my disapproval of Mattchew's play, or lack of it. I don't think a lurker lynch is a bad choice here, partly because I have no idea what Sinensis is thinking. According to the day post there's 35 minutes left. | ||
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Might not be a bad lynch. | ||
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On May 29 2012 08:42 Forumite wrote: I don´t understand what you are saying here, does he look like when he played in another game where he was town, or scum? I don´t know anything about zealos meta. His play is quite different from SNMMX (scum), where he deliberately played aggressive (but kinda missed and ended up obnoxious). However, his play is quite similar to his play in MTG (scum), where he hedges a lot. I recall reading his town play in GoT and it was pretty decent. Jumped straight into cases, didn't hedge. | ||
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On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote: Perhaps we should be focusing on people that aren't posting a lot? Or at least taking a closer look. The scum reads I've seen so far are only for people that have been actively posting and while more posts does help you when figuring out someones alignment, the smaller posts can be more telling. Been staring at those, failed to find anything worth mentioning except papapanda's abdictation of responsibility on the Grush/Sinensis thing, which is probably in character for him. Honestly I'd be happy to kill anyone with fewer than five posts, because they're killing town. It's a long list. On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote: I'd also like to see a bit more sureness in your lynch possiblities Wiggles. While I understand you just lynched a townie and might be hesitant to be so quick to pounce on someone, I'd be curious to hear who's on your radar. Why? He's just a guy with two votes. Who's on your radar? | ||
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On May 29 2012 08:37 sToFu wrote: I would be more inclined to believe, at this point, that toad is lyncher. As far as scum goes, sinesis has acted incredibly suspiciously and ss just rubs me in the wrong way. I'm on my phone, so I'll write a more detailed response when I get home. Broken promise notification. On May 28 2012 08:19 phagga wrote: Not through the complete thread yet, will catch up later. I'm against a policy lynch, as I think everyone should get the chance to improve. I don't like how Toadesstern claimed, and feel against voting him therefore. He is either throwing away his blue role or fakeclaiming to get the major. Both is bad. I like Mr. Wiggles reasoning, he looks like a good candidate. The other interesting option is ET, but I will have to read through his filter again to feel more sure. Mr. Wiggles and ET, do you already have some candidates for your lynch? That's 28 hours ago. Unacceptable. | ||
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On May 29 2012 13:25 Manason wrote: I voted for Mr. Wiggles because I trusted that he would make a good lynch, so I'm curious as to who he would want to lynch because to be honest I don't have the time nor will power to sit here and analyze everyone. I'd rather someone who I know is better than me to be suspicious and then I can form my own opinion on the matter. The people on my radar I would rather not say because I have zero evidence to back up my claims other than pure intuition, which could be wrong. So no use making enemies when no one will believe me anyway. That's not how the game works. Until you start throwing opinions out there, we can't read you, and once we run out of other lurkers, that makes you a lynch/vig target. We don't expect your reads to be any good, but we expect honesty and effort. Intuition is fine, and you can't worry about making enemies. People expect to be accused when they play the game. Also, people "better than you" do have a few suspicions, so what do you think about Zealos, Kitaman and Wiggles? | ||
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On May 30 2012 00:04 supersoft wrote: hey i really appreciate your effort, but why are you guys always trying so hard. Finding scum is a lot easier than you might think. Don't think around 3 corners. Try to catch the little things. Like that Zealos defends toad at a point when it was really useless to defend him. Neither was he in danger of getting lynched, nor is reducing the pressure that is currently put on a player helping the town. I considered defending Toad at that point. Why? Because when Toad's defending himself, it tends to absolutely dominate the thread, and I didn't think the evidence against him was worth that. However, Zealos never gave that explanation, and his overnight performance is a couple of one-liners with an attempt at provoking BH. Not following his Mr Helpful angle from day 1, and he had cases to answer which he ignored. I support him as a vig target. On May 30 2012 00:04 supersoft wrote: Every other case so far except my toadcase (who is currently on ice until he's confirmed mason) was uncovered and not well thought out. Especially our lynch yesterday. That case was terrible. There was really nothing about it. I could write a lot about why this player was a bad lynch. From an overall gamepolicy point of view because we got no information - maybe some about wiggles - and an individual point of view, because he obviously was town. I can't get my head around the idea of someone signing up for a game with a premeditated plan to tunnel the crap out of one player and ignore the actual game. He never even said anything in the postgame of LIV. I'll just have to file him under "strange things that townies do". | ||
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On May 30 2012 01:06 supersoft wrote: no wait i filtered you. You're really bad. I first wanted to make a little joke, now i saw it's true. Any defense? Admitting you're scum could help it. Anything in particular or just my excessive tendency to defend people? I try to control that. Honestly I'm struggling this game. I have town reads (some only mild, but still) on the few players with a significant post count so I'm concentrating on trying to get everyone else posting. | ||
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On May 30 2012 01:57 supersoft wrote: okay let's play a game: i give you a name and we both write down what we think about his posts and we'll trade it in like 20min (got to eat meanwhile): meapak_ziph Ok, I'll play. Slightly scummy stuff: - Not running for election despite relatively strong standing. - Possible buddying/overpraising of ET, Wiggles and Kita. - Dismisses Toad's case against ET without addressing the points. - Seems to be ok with policy-lynching Sinensis. - Story clearly pictures Kita as depressed town. Soft defence? - Switches Kita to a scum read without explanation. - Avoids giving read on SnB. Excuse that he hasn't read him. - No mention at all of Zealos. On the plus side he's been active and he's contributed on most of the major issues without looking hesitant or indecisive. The lack of reads on SnB and Zealos is by far the worst part. | ||
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On May 30 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote: noone has answered my question about wether or not I need to call my "target" before the deadline I think you should call it. It'd make it a lot tougher for you if you're 3rd party. | ||
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If he does call his target before the deadline, his target may survive the night and he'll be left with a lot of explaining to do. | ||
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Otherwise you could use some kind of cipher, I guess. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=64722 | ||
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On May 30 2012 07:46 papapanda wrote: As Toad already picked his buddy, I just want to say that I will be worried if you are the one who claims mason for him. They talk in German. It's quite fun reading the logs in Google Translate. Anyway, I've been trying to find MZ scum meta and largely failing. He managed two posts in Sleeper Cell II before getting himself banned from TL. Other than that there's just PYP:I (3-faction) where he makes a lurky run for mayor and then spends most of the game defending himself. His play here looks very much like his town play, although there's not a lot of scum play to compare against. | ||
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Do failed hits notify? | ||
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Doesn't that make VE's roleblock + Forumite doublestack claim a bit suspicious? Doublestacking doesn't seem a likely option given the state of the town. What if VE was carrying out a nightkill and needed to seed an excuse? | ||
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On May 30 2012 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh I see what you're saying - because "my kill" didn't go through so your thought is I could be pushing "Forumite doublestacked" as a smokescreen or something. Is that what you mean? Yeah, that. Theory rendered obsolete by MZ's hit-claim anyway. Also my pass through Forumite's filter is now less relevant. Scum reads on Zealos and Manason. Town reads on Supersoft, ET, Wiggles. Doesn't have so much weight if he wasn't doublestacked. On May 30 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, cool...Toad town... ......but why? Why would scum leave a soon-to-be-confirmed-town alive? Medic fear, I guess. | ||
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##vote GambitX32 Either that or Zealos, but he's got some activity excuse until the second half of day 2 so there's not much point in prodding him. I'd love to find active scum but I'm not even convinced that there are any. | ||
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To complete the nightkill list, MZ's public scumreads were Kitaman and Mattchew. | ||
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On May 31 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Its not enough to hang Mr MZ that's that I'm saying...you are jumping to conclusions based on a preconceived notion that I'm scum which is absolutely false. You said it yourself when you went to filter me I was already "looking bad". Are you even trying to see a townVE motivation at ALL? Now who is the lazy townie? Ok, help us out here. What's the townVE motivation for asking Wiggles to seriously consider lynching Toad? | ||
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On May 31 2012 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't think that's anti-town at all, I think that's having an opinion on the only thing I have any kind of control over, the lynch/election. But a lot of your mud-flinging at Toad was long after his chances at election had gone. He only ever got one vote other than himself. Forumite was a more popular candidate. | ||
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On May 31 2012 07:58 supersoft wrote: But if VE is scum. Why is he interested that Toad isn't elected... Is it because the scumteam already had a candidate running for office? WIGGLES? is that thought too complicated? Given how hard VE has spammed on day 2, it's possible that he was just spamming on any workable topic rather than with a particular agenda. I'm not liking Wiggles much atm though. Too few posts, too carefully written. | ||
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On May 31 2012 08:48 Probulous wrote: Can someone link me the case against Zealos. He looks like an overwhelmed newb to me  Zealos isn't that new. I believe he has four games now, at least two as scum. His town performance in GoT wasn't bad at all, and certainly didn't give the impression of being overwhelmed. Forumite's case against him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14866065 Since then he's managed a few bad excuses and that's it. It's not a great case, but I don't think we have anything better. | ||
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The day 1 vote for MZ sticks out so far that it feels too scummy to be scum, much like his call for a no-vote. Then on day 2 he casts doubt on MZ's hit claim with some paranoid WIFOM speed-typed from his phone. Follows up with a 180 on Wiggles that's not too unreasonable. Reads as paranoid loner newb townie to me. If he's got a team, they're letting him do some very odd stuff. Also I voted (for Gambit) in the wrong thread yesterday. Switching to Zealos for now because his response today is terrible. ##vote Zealos | ||
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On May 31 2012 10:39 Probulous wrote: So you think he is town because he acting like scum? I'm saying that scum normally make some effort not to have an entire filter full of weird stuff. The town explanation for his posts seems more plausible to me. On Zealos, I agree it's possible that he's just busy. His claim is that he has a lot more free time now, so we'll see if he manages to post something that looks town before the lynch. In that case I'd probably switch to Gambit rather than Hyaach though. Cwave and phagga are lined up for modkills due to not voting on day 1, so there's not much point lynching them. What's this evidence of Hyaach's motivations? | ||
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On May 31 2012 11:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Your case is terrible MZ. I've told you why - because you're jumping to conclusions about my intentions without considering town motivations for the things you're accusing me of. Meh. The only town motivation I can construct for your filter is that: 1. You're obsessed with Toad and 2. You just fucking love posting. Waiting for MZ case part 2. | ||
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On May 31 2012 14:11 Probulous wrote: Do you think VE actually wanted to get Toad lynched. He is clearly focused on him but I fail to see the upside for mafia. No-one is going to lynch Toad so why bangd on about it? To hide in plain sight? Ok, here's my theory. Toad had a small range of likely mason targets given his intention to mason someone he thought was town, the narrow activity band and the scum reads he'd provided. I think scum were hoping to hit Toad's mason target, and they had roughly a 50/50 shot. So a scumVE's agenda here would be: 1. Jam up the thread on day 1 by throwing shit at Toad. 2. Kill Toad's mason target. 3. Jam up the thread on day 2 by throwing shit at Toad. Note that VE didn't want Toad to call his target at the deadline. Might just be bad blue logic (Forumite had the same view), might be agenda. If VE thought Toad was third party, like he claimed, he should have been pushing for a target call. On May 31 2012 22:48 austinmcc wrote: As far as VE's vig claim goes, I'm not terribly inclined to believe it given his posts concerning zealos today and the breadcrumb. But it feels like between the possibility of jailers and roleblockers, a single roleblock claim (assuming we think VE is lying about the roleblock) is a little light? Maybe someone roleblocked a lurker thinking blue, and they haven't checked in to notice they were blocked or claimed, but that's my only real misgiving about a VE lynch at this point. It's common for scum to not use their roleblocker and claim it themselves if they don't have a good target. It's particularly useful if you're considering a fakeclaim. On the general issues surrounding VE: VE's blue claim is bad (surely an upside-down question mark is a DT breadcrumb...? No character name breadcrumb?), but it's not an alignment tell given that his blue claims are universally awful. VE's case on Kitaman is awful. The meta part is cherrypicked, and the lyncher part is a bloody great straw man borrowed from Probulous. The let-VE-shoot plan is probably bad. Vigs don't necessarily keep their shot on a roleblock, we may not have a watcher, the watcher may not be awake, and the watcher would have to claim to lynch VE. Even if VE is vig and shoots, scum might be fine with letting him shoot into town. MZ's case on VE is good. My only remaining doubt is WBG's point: VE can play very strangely as town. VE also deliberately changes his style from game to game, so I don't normally bother trying to meta-read him. Overall though, I think if VE was town, he'd be more productive than he's been this game, given that he's playing a style that looks helpful on the surface. There's just too high a proportion of spam, buddying and mud-flinging, and too little genuine pressure or analysis. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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And yeah, I'm having doubts myself about VE. A lot of his filter looks quite town, even if it's spammy unfocused town. And we'll have to start killing lurkers sometime. If we can't confirm VE one way or another on day 3 it's going to be horrible though. | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:41 marvellosity wrote: I just don't understand the mentality of those who aren't sure, but they go for it anyway even though it could mean lynching a veteran scumhunter vigilante The veteran scumhunter bit doesn't do much for me, given VE's recent performances and what he's done in this game. If anything, the drop in spam should lead to an increase in thread quality. Personally I don't have any trouble keeping up with the thread and so I'd rather get rid of some lurkers, but there are a lot of players already using the page count as an excuse, and they have a point. The vigilante bit is weak because his claim is bad and VE absolutely would claim blue as scum. As scum, he wriggles hard on the hook. There's also the probability point that the roleblocker "just happened" to pick him out. Does VE look blue to you this game? Sure, we lose more if he's town, but if anything, the claim lessens the chance that he's town. It's also tough to prove, so there's the danger that we end up in the same position tomorrow. | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:52 Probulous wrote: No-one has been able to answer this for me. I tried actually. Top of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14899461 | ||
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I wanna kill BH for lurking the run-up and then trying to cause a no-lynch. I wanna kill Mattchew for leaving his vote somewhere useless and then showing up immediately after the deadline. | ||
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I guess Kita had the most reason to spot the breadcrumb? Despite that, Kita never gives an opinion on Zealos apart from: On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote: Hassybaby has not shared his opinion on a single player this game. I'd like to request a large post from him within the next 24 hours or he should be strongly considered as a vig target tommorrow night. Zealos has disappeared. As a lynch candidate, he needs to be extremely active today if he hopes to stay out of trouble. marvellosity's filter is far too safe for my liking. Zealos also evades his lurker/suspicious list without explanation. Along with Mattchew. | ||
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jaj22
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Ok, Kita's list header is "I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread." What had you contributed at that point? You lurked right up to the daypost, came out with a dumb plan that was more likely to "catch" town than scum, and then tunnelled strongandbig all day, apparently without even looking at his filter. | ||
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jaj22
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On day 1, I backed off Sinensis when you reminded me of one of his other games and went looking for better lynches. I decided on Zealos after a re-read of his MTG filter. That was before Wiggles picked his lynch. VE was a tough one for me because parts of his filter gave me a gut town read but there were so many scummy aspects of his play. I tried too hard to rationalise that, thinking that all the veterans on VE collectively knew better than me. If I had self-confidence I'd play this game more rather than watching it. I made the post asking people to move non-VE votes to Zealos because that's what I wanted. I was seriously tempted to push for a vote switch to Zealos at points near the end, but with the votes spread as they were it would have just led to a no-lynch. Even with my late doubts, I never felt that a no-lynch was preferable to a VE lynch. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 01 2012 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote: No one had confidence in a VE lynch except MZ and kita, from what I can recall. MZ because he was the originator of the case and kita cause he's scum. Yeah, reading back I didn't even sheep correctly. I counted Supersoft and Toad, but Supersoft was an error as he wanted to let VE live despite marking him in red. I probably shouldn't have counted Toad due to the Toad/VE antipathy and the masoning with MZ, but he sounded pretty sure about the meta thing. I had you marked in my head as the lone dissenting veteran. | ||
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jaj22
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Re-reading Mattchew and BH, but my initial feeling is that I don't want to kill BH anymore and Mattchew's way below Kita and Gambit. Hopefully we have a vig left, because I really don't want to see Gambit still here tomorrow if he's not going to talk. | ||
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jaj22
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jaj22
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BH places bombs on Grush and SnB on night 1. Mafia roleblocks BH. Mafia shoots BH, Supersoft and Mattchew. Supersoft jails WBG. On June 02 2012 08:25 wherebugsgo wrote: good news: we can kill those people who liked SnB for scum but didn't like Zealos. Bad news: The only ones I found so far are BH and Mattchew. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 02 2012 09:15 jaj22 wrote: Bad news: The only ones I found so far are BH and Mattchew. Scratch that. Kita had SnB as his preferred day 1 lynch and still had him in his scum list on day 2. Zealos doesn't figure. Probulous marginally matches the description (attacked SnB a bit, pushed Hyaach over Zealos) but he's probably town. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On June 03 2012 03:11 kitaman27 wrote: Nobody concerned with the complete thread silence? The story of this game is that the people who need to post, don't post. The following players all need to post more: Hassybaby MajuGarzett SToFu papapanda Ange777 Manason At this rate you're going to end up in LYLO together with bugger all information to work with. If you can't think what to post about: 1. Read Kitaman and Wiggles' filters. Post concrete opinions on them. If anyone's up for lynch and you don't post a considered opinion on them, you've neglected your duty as a townie. 2. Read some other filters. Find something odd/scummy (plenty of that around), post about it. Special mention to Hassybaby because his filter is worthless and he should know better. Views on today's lynch to follow. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 03 2012 05:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Now, what "strong anti-zealos movement" are you talking about? There wasn't a strong movement against him, so much as 3 or 4 people commenting on him near the deadline. Additionally, the actual case on zealos by forumite didn't even come until 30 minutes after the deadline, whereas I had sent in my choice for lynch 5 or so minutes before the deadline. Were you required to put your lynch choice in before the deadline? Did you have an opportunity to change it after the deadline? | ||
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jaj22
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Worth a try: By what time were mayoral candidates expected to submit their lynch choice? | ||
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jaj22
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I'm building up some pretty good evidence on Kita but I'm still not sure that we shouldn't just kill Gambit first. | ||
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jaj22
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The Zealos connection: This bit's mostly a rehash of an earlier post of mine. Two points here: Firstly, Kita acknowledges the breadcrumb, which would explain why VE was roleblocked. Secondly, Kita never actually responds. He takes the time to dig up an upside down exclamation mark, but he doesn't spend the two minutes it takes to read Zealos's filter? Not much excuse here. On May 30 2012 14:55 kitaman27 wrote: Hassybaby has not shared his opinion on a single player this game. I'd like to request a large post from him within the next 24 hours or he should be strongly considered as a vig target tommorrow night. Zealos has disappeared. As a lynch candidate, he needs to be extremely active today if he hopes to stay out of trouble. marvellosity's filter is far too safe for my liking. Midway through day 2, Kita's sole comment about Zealos until his post-lynch troll. Note also the poke at Marvellosity, who had a strong meta-read on Zealos after nailing him in MTG. Next one spoilered for length: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote: Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target. I find the following players scummy and have listed them in the preference of lynching order. VisceraEyes: case stated earlier sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader strongandbig: stated ealier Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy. I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread. I'd like each of them to comment about the above five names or bring up something meaningful to show that they care about showing that they are town. Otherwise, they should all be considered for vig shots. Manason GambitX32 Cwave Hassybaby Kenpachi phagga Hyaach sToFu Kita manages to make a scum + lurker list that doesn't include Zealos. Funny, given that he previously listed Zealos as a lynch candidate who needs to post more. Actually I'm not sure how he made this mistake even as scum. From Kita's case on Wiggles: On June 02 2012 11:52 kitaman27 wrote: However, his only legitimate opponent, EchelonTee, has expressed suspicion of Zealos and a strong anti-Zealos movement has started to gain strength hours before the deadline. Kitaman posted during the period when Zealos was under discussion, but only commented on Sinensis, SnB and Manason as lynch candidates himself. Attacking Wiggles: There's not much wrong with the case on Wiggles apart from the exaggeration of the Zealos push. What's really wrong here is that Kita is pushing a Wiggles lynch when we're on the KP margin and Gambit is 99% claimed scum. If Kita is town, the obvious thing to do given the current votes is to push hard for a Gambit lynch. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 03 2012 17:22 Probulous wrote: I agree with lynching Gambit first as long as Kita swings tomorrow. I think the only going for Gambit is that he might be two minutes too late this time and get himself modkilled. It is kind of sad when the most townie you can do is to die. Yeah, I was thinking that the optimal plan would be to set up a close vote for Kita, and then jump on Gambit if he dares to ninja again. However, it's too risky (chance of accidental no-lynch) if we don't have nearly everyone on either Kita or Gambit. Currently Hassybaby, Gambit (lol), SToFu and MZ haven't voted, Kita is voting for Wiggles and Manason has a (deliberately?) malformatted vote. I suppose we could take the chance that Gambit has got bored with waiting to ninja or forgets the deadline entirely. Not sure if that's worth the (increasingly small) risk that Kita is town. Voting for Gambit unless there are signs of... increased participation. I'll be around for the deadline. btw the day post in the voting thread is wrong: There are only 19 players left, 18 after Ange. | ||
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jaj22
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Manason is looking like a good third lynch now that he's degenerated from terrible posting to no posting. His "lazy newb" excuse doesn't hold up given the current glacial pace of the thread. | ||
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jaj22
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1. Spotlighted Zealos and Papapanda. 2. Reactions around the Kita flip looked genuine. 3. Papapanda's reply to his FoS. 4. Gut town read. By far the strongest read I ever had on Kenpachi. I was pretty sure Hyaach was town too, so it was one of you and Austin. Austin unfortunately played scum agenda all game by accident | ||
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jaj22
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I'll just leave this quote here: <WBG> what's the single most important thing marvellosity did this game? <Maju> Start a case on Mana? | ||
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jaj22
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A large chunk of my reason for supporting the Kita/MZ theory in the ObsQT was my lack of alternate scumreads. At the time I had ET, Marv, Austin, Hyaach & Kenpachi as town, and one of Manason and Maju. Wiggles I couldn't get a read on. The conspiracy theory arguably made more sense than the truth. Edit: Oh yeah, that Maju quote wasn't supposed to be some kind of smoking gun. It was funny at the time and differently funny after the flips. I thought Maju handled that situation pretty well by only incriminating himself. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 17 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote: i/we didn't notice, it's not why we shot you I was tempted to call for medics on Supersoft because I was almost sure that one of the six scum would have spotted that blue claim. Guess it was tough to spot in that 60 page day 2. Any reason for roleblocking VE? | ||
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jaj22
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Real shame his shot didn't go through. I reckon we'd have killed Gambit or Wiggles day 2. | ||
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Day 2 was quite spammy despite a lot of players still not posting. I was seriously thinking that VE might be doing it deliberately like in that horrible game. | ||
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jaj22
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On June 19 2012 08:48 Probulous wrote: You played me really well this game because you defended VE hard core when I started defending him. To me you were the only one making sense and so naturally you gained points in my book. This was actually a rather dubious switch from Marv. Earlier in the day, he'd been hedging on VE in a slightly scummy manner. Once the lynch was virtually sealed he switched to throwing suspicion on people for voting VE, while not really pushing the case for an alternate lynch. It's why I didn't give either you or Marv as much credit for day 2 as some players did. Remember when I called for players not on Zealos or VE to switch to Zealos? That's what was needed for a vote switch. There was a bare majority on VE (~16) and about 4 votes on Zealos at the time. No-one was going to break the majority on VE without a serious alternate lynch. Wiggles probably had a better chance of getting a switch with his Maju stunt. Essentially Marv pushed Zealos hard at two points: When the majority opinion was for a lynch on Zealos and Gambit was the alternate lynch, and then again when it was too late to get a lynch on Zealos. That's a pretty soft bus. Note that if Marv hadn't pushed Zealos, he'd have been open to accusations given how he nailed him in MTG. So tactically it was an optimal bus, and you just have to consider whether Marv is a good enough scum player to fake-rant. I think he's proved that previously. Then there's the question of whether the rest of Marv's play was sufficiently townie. He maintains a high activity level, but there was a lot of buddying (and not just the proposal), quite a lot of scum agenda and a generally weak late-game contribution. Nothing particularly damning, but I'd have lynched him before Hyaach or Kenpachi. I think the lesson here is that you have to judge players on their own standards. You shouldn't lynch Kenpachi before Marv just because he never made a case longer than two lines. You shouldn't lynch Hyaach before Marv just because he wasted a day on conspiracy theories. Hell, I called the guy "paranoid loner newbie town" on day 2. Once you factor in players' weaknesses, it's a lot easier to work out whether they're actually scum. And yeah, I made the same mistake on Kitaman. I should have figured that he had a terrible weakness against newbie lurkers | ||
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jaj22
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On June 19 2012 10:28 marvellosity wrote: jaj; I'd have pushed people on their reasons for voting as either alignment That was the point there. People read your activity there as a town tell, while tactically it's good play for scum unless there's a genuine chance of switching people to a Zealos lynch. On June 19 2012 10:28 marvellosity wrote: And you don't qualify your 'quite a lot of scum agenda' that I was apparently pushing Off the top of my head: - Multiple defenses of Wiggles - Pushing Manason over Papa/Maju - Lumping in Gambit with phagga/cwave - Bad case on Hyaach I think Austin had a higher proportion though Honestly I've seen you play scummier as town, and I can't say I ever had a scum read on you. It was all relative. I doubt I'd have lynched you before 2-1, so it's an academic point. The players left at 3-1 weren't going to lynch you. | ||
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On June 19 2012 11:27 wherebugsgo wrote: I haven't seen anyone truly abuse the ability to blend in as dumb town That's where I screwed up on Manason. At some point I decided that it was likely that he was faking terrible town play, but now that you mention it, I've never seen it done. | ||
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