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@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum.
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On May 30 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:30 Mattchew wrote:But my trap worked to perfection. I fail to see how I was scummier than WBG or MZ before the night post, so why are their claims taken at face value and mine not. I told the thread early on I would not be active, I have now been posting for almost 24 hours straight (no sleep or breaks) to get back involved in this game. Up until snb, ET was the only one to post suspicions about my shot claim + Show Spoiler [ET post about my shot] +On May 30 2012 08:32 EchelonTee wrote:
Mattchew the last KP, unless someone claims a medic protect. I'm curious why he got shot.
, however with both of them not knowing of WBG's claim there is a huge difference in the posts about my claimed hit. ET expressed curiosity as to why I was shot (because IMO he is honestly confused about scum shooting me) while SnB immediately looks for the vig that shot me. I think he was posting to find a vig to claim the shot because he knew it wasn't mafia's doing. Ok Matt, I understand. The fact that you claimed your shot first and that he dismissed you as a possible scum shot is pretty bad. I thought you had claimed after the others but by my reading you were first. So in essence the question boils down to "Why would someone believe that scum used all their kill point on Forumite and so Matt was shot by a vig; over Matt being shot by scum?" Is that right?
nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case
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On May 30 2012 14:57 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:52 Mattchew wrote:
@Prob @Wiggles and @WBG (and everyone else really)
You can say my filter is weak, but I don't think anything about it screams scummy. I was simply unable to participate in the game until recently. You could go so far to say that I looked a little Blue, but if scum were to have shot me I believe they would have been just shooting at a relatively experienced player that was basically guaranteed to not be protected. If you think my filter looks that much worse than WBG and you believe his claim I would like to know why? I understand he subbed into the game having much less time to post, but that still does not make a difference when push comes to shove about the overall content of both of our filters.
Also, you can say that lying to town is bad. I agree most of the time, but I haven't heard an answer to "how this lie can hurt town or push an anti-town agenda?".
Another point is why would I, as scum, claim, knowing that MZ and WBG were shot and still alive and likely to (I see no reason they wouldn't) claim. I would have been the obvious choice for lynch for lying according to you all, and even if I wasn't I would have been sacrificing myself to an actual vig shot / next day lynch that I don't think has any benefit as scum. Don't misrepresent my words I never said anything about you being scum. I said that SnB might have responded like he did even if he is town. In otherwords your trap was stupid.
On May 30 2012 14:22 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:14 Mattchew wrote:
Btw i am reading along with prob's posts and they are awesome I <3 Prob (ps this could be our first game as town together?!) Could be, depends if you're town or not. You're not making much sense  If I get your thinking right, it goes like this - You're town and you claim a shot and only scum know that you were "not" shot by scum.
- SnB says you were shot by a vig
- Because he discounted the possibility of you being shot by scum, he knows you weren't shot by scum, and so is scum.
The problem is that this assumes you're town. In SnB's eyes, you looked like scum so of course any shot your way would come from a vig. I don't understand the basis of your trap and WBG is right to get pissed at you for lying about it. I suggest we all grow up, drop the issue and lynch based on posting rather than one's interpretation of a failed trap.
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On May 30 2012 15:01 sToFu wrote:
You ask how the lie could hurt town, and you provided a method with which it could hurt town.
.
can you please elaborate on this... how did I provide a method where it hurt town?
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On May 30 2012 15:09 Probulous wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=62#1229Good god Matt calm down. That point of that post was that SnB might have thought you weren't town. No need to get your panties in a knot. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:59 Mattchew wrote:nope cause i think MZ claimed a hit sometime in there. Its why did he assume the doublestack of forum (or assume another unclaimed hit) and put me in the vig target only list... Maybe this is just me but if I were an observer of the situation I wouldn't care about who was hit by what until the claimed hits were greater than the mafia KP. This wasn't the case Ok here is the order of events - Matt claims shot
- Meapak claim hit
- SnB questions Matt's claim
So at that point there were two shots claimed plus a kill, totalling three which accounts for all scum KP. So yeah, odd he would assume vig shot when there was plenty of scum KP available.
I am calm, you said I was misrepresenting your words when I wasn't. And to have a meta scum read on me is illogical, i post equally if not more as scum, so me lurking after giving a reason for it is the most forced scum read one could have.
and I think you are catching on. I saw you had a post about snb before as well
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ok bed time. be back in like 12 hours
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On May 30 2012 18:35 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:37 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 14:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On May 30 2012 14:13 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 14:10 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 30 2012 09:00 strongandbig wrote:
Could Mattchew have been a vig shot? MZ and Foru make way more sense as scum kills but Mattchew doesn't make any sense there. This post to me seems to display no indication of knowledge of the night kills, just that your shot claim doesn't make sense as a scum one. and yours does? + Show Spoiler [WBG Filter Pre-night] +On May 30 2012 04:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Catching up right now.
If anyone needs anything specific let me know, but it'll be a couple hours at the least before I can respond. On May 30 2012 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote:why I love supersoft Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 22:58 supersoft wrote:
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF TOADESSTERN :D my thoughts exactly whenever I read his posts LOL I come across first Toad post = oh god wtf On May 30 2012 06:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
Is there a particular reason Gambitx32 wasn't warned or replaced for not voting? I ctrl-f'd his name in greymist's filter and didn't find anything there either.
I have a scumread on him based on his only two posts in the thread. Both of his posts are massive walls of summarizing nothing. He also asks On May 30 2012 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
oh wtf it cut off.
He asks a bunch of people to state who they're going to vote and stuff but he doesn't vote himself. Why has no one questioned you about your claimed hit? He knew I was not hit by mafia, so he wanted to out the vig that shot me because thats what scum do when they don't know everything. They try to find it out Matt, I think you're grasping a bit here, and I disagree. Strongandbig wasn't asking for the vig to claim, he was just asking the thread if they thought you made sense as a vig shot. Frankly, you'd be a confusing mafia shot, since you hadn't done much in the thread, and people were suspicious of you. WBG on the other hand, may have been shot for bringing up a lurker who was scum (gambit), or he could have been shot on reputation alone to kill a vet when he'd be more unlikely to have protection or make an impact on the game. So, it makes sense to me for strongandbig to question your hit, since it didn't make much sense for scum to hit you. It made more sense for a vig to hit you. I don't think you can use that post as a point against him. Right now I'm trying to determine who I think is scummiest/want to lynch from kitaman/supersoft/zealos/gambit. God hindsight is 20/20 in this thread... Obviously now that people know I wasn't actually hit its super easy to say "omg you weren't a scum target thats so obvi duhhh" but before all the other hit claims no one said this except ET and SnB. And ET did not discount that scum shot me, he just expressed interest in it man are you dumb? That was 90% of the reason I was calling you scum. Both SnB and I thought the hit claim you were claiming had to either be a lie or a vig hit. Obviously there was no way scum would shoot you. Lying about it makes no sense as town, because you get situations like these. Now let's move on. We lynch gambit man, since he still hasn't appeared and his first two posts are still the same shit they were the last time I read them.
Man are you dumb? You knew that you were the 3rd hit thus making me the 4th claimed hit from 3 scum kp... Snb DID NOT have this same info (from the thread atleast) and yet came to the same conclusion
If lying makes no sense as town are you calling me scum?
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On May 30 2012 23:02 strongandbig wrote:
@probulous:
Here's the reason I wanted toad to say something about this claimed anti manipulation power. When you're dealing with a nonstandard power, and when you're dealing with greymist, role does not always equal alignment.
Since I have trouble imagining how this power would work, I have trouble believing it. It still feels to me like toad was lying to get elected mayor.
That said, I understand that revealing how it works could make it less useful if toad at some point masons a scum or someone he thinks is scummy. So what about this: toad, when you get a mason buddy who you're like 100% sure is town, could you explain this thing to them and they could tell the thread whether they believe you?
Also, toad, why did you claim when you did? If the answer is just "to become mayor," then why did you want to be mayor so badly?
a. the roles are in the OP and are all alignment assigned
b. how is toad lying if MZ confirmed him? are they both scum?
c. I would bet that he claimed to become mayor because he is town. I don't see why he needs further explanation, it is a role of power that decides day 1's lynch
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On May 30 2012 22:45 supersoft wrote:okay how many people took bullets? MZ took a hit wherebugsgo took a hit both of them were saved. Forumite took a hit aswell. Vigs who shot one of them must claim now. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys... I wasn't shot... But strongandbig fell into my trap cause he knew this (Aka his team didn't shoot me)... If the trap failed it would have made scum believe there was a vig shot already used or an sk or something (Aka giving them fake game info) so it seemed like a win-win this is so strange. Might be scum panicking after he saw that no townplayer died.
I didn't even wait for WBG to claim his hit, how is that panicking... Did you read the post in context to the entire thread or just in my filter or quoted somewhere?
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On May 30 2012 23:07 strongandbig wrote:
Who would you have lynched?
Also if you explained it to MZ and he believes you I'm satisfied. I think he's probably town.
If you think MZ is town then that has to confirm Toad as town being that scum don't have a mason, its a green role
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I mean, the roles are colored
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On May 30 2012 23:42 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:08 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 22:45 supersoft wrote:okay how many people took bullets? MZ took a hit wherebugsgo took a hit both of them were saved. Forumite took a hit aswell. Vigs who shot one of them must claim now. On May 30 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys... I wasn't shot... But strongandbig fell into my trap cause he knew this (Aka his team didn't shoot me)... If the trap failed it would have made scum believe there was a vig shot already used or an sk or something (Aka giving them fake game info) so it seemed like a win-win this is so strange. Might be scum panicking after he saw that no townplayer died. I didn't even wait for WBG to claim his hit, how is that panicking... Did you read the post in context to the entire thread or just in my filter or quoted somewhere? fuck you okay? I hate to deal with idiots like you. Of course i read that shit in the context. Noone claimes so far. You claimed before any PMs went out that told people they were hit. Scumteam know who they hit. obviously they dont have to wait for claims to know who was hit. WTF dude.
As a side note I am not offended by this at all.
I did not realize that the hit notices went out after my post, care to explain how you knew this because no where in the thread is this posted.
Also, what I am saying is that as scum, why would I claim a fake hit that I KNOW can be EZ mode outted as a lie because WBG and MZ are alive.
My move was to try and catch someone that knew more than townies about the night shots. SnB was that person, he couldn't keep his information to himself. Whether it was to look smarter when WBG inevitably claimed his hit and then a vig claimed mine or because he wanted to out the vig that shot me or to try and push a mislynch onto me for lying, his intentions and knowledge behind his post about me being shot were clear; He knew that I was not shot by scum in a time where the information available to the thread would not lead one to such conclusion
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On May 31 2012 01:10 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 00:28 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 23:42 supersoft wrote:On May 30 2012 23:08 Mattchew wrote:On May 30 2012 22:45 supersoft wrote:okay how many people took bullets? MZ took a hit wherebugsgo took a hit both of them were saved. Forumite took a hit aswell. Vigs who shot one of them must claim now. On May 30 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote:
Hey guys... I wasn't shot... But strongandbig fell into my trap cause he knew this (Aka his team didn't shoot me)... If the trap failed it would have made scum believe there was a vig shot already used or an sk or something (Aka giving them fake game info) so it seemed like a win-win this is so strange. Might be scum panicking after he saw that no townplayer died. I didn't even wait for WBG to claim his hit, how is that panicking... Did you read the post in context to the entire thread or just in my filter or quoted somewhere? fuck you okay? I hate to deal with idiots like you. Of course i read that shit in the context. Noone claimes so far. You claimed before any PMs went out that told people they were hit. Scumteam know who they hit. obviously they dont have to wait for claims to know who was hit. WTF dude. As a side note I am not offended by this at all. I did not realize that the hit notices went out after my post, care to explain how you knew this because no where in the thread is this posted. Also, what I am saying is that as scum, why would I claim a fake hit that I KNOW can be EZ mode outted as a lie because WBG and MZ are alive. My move was to try and catch someone that knew more than townies about the night shots. SnB was that person, he couldn't keep his information to himself. Whether it was to look smarter when WBG inevitably claimed his hit and then a vig claimed mine or because he wanted to out the vig that shot me or to try and push a mislynch onto me for lying, his intentions and knowledge behind his post about me being shot were clear; He knew that I was not shot by scum in a time where the information available to the thread would not lead one to such conclusion nvm. you dont understand my thoughtprocess and the pros for a scumteam to have one of them fake a hit. i draw that comclusion, because you keep repeating the same things i already read. on the other hand you're probably telling the truth now. i think your town gj.
If you think I am town, do you think that SnB is scum?
Can you elaborate on your thought process so that maybe I can understand it. The way I see it, is that the only way that my fake claim works in favor of a scum agenda, is if I use it to determine my innocence. The only way to do that is to convince town I was indeed shot by scum, but if I were scum I would know that WBG and MZ were to claim, thus outting my claim in a probable 1 for 1 trade which in no way is good for scum
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Imma need to do some research on this gay-phonecall-ac session stuff... 1800-big-stud seems like a good start
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Ps I'm on my way to the devils Stanley cup game 1... I'm posting from my phone and it will be extremely sporadic... Can we please push a snb lynch
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On May 31 2012 06:34 EchelonTee wrote:@mattchew Unless SnB has drastically improved his scum game, he's probably town this game. His responses to pressure, and his continuing forthrightness seem pretty townie. In SS Mafia, in response to pressure SnB was all like "pls... believe me I'm town...  " In this game he's more like "....I'm town you moron".
I would think that was his only game ever as scum... Do you remember your first game as scum? How much different was it from your second? How much better did you play
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Wbg left me off his list too I suck at this game
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insert jackie chan jpeg.
We have the best possible night for town, and we want to lynch a claimed blue, vet? We should take this time to lynch lurkers and scummy newbs, because we have been afforded the opportunity to by our protection roles. Think about who you want to make your reads on later in the game, someone you've played with and is active, or someone that posts once a cycle and you hve never played with and is like flipping a coin. Lynching VE is straight up stupid and if he flips town, it is taking away a scum night kill and a town KP. Do you really think scum are going to shoot players like
cwave,
hyaach,
grush,
manason,
gambit?
These are the players we should be lynching (or SnB cause he claimed scum and I mean just look at his vote on VE that leaves a disclaimer about VE flipping town, 90% reasoning being meta while a quick 1 line about VE's vote switching) because when we get to the late game, these are the players that lose town games
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is the OP playerlist correct with regards to replacements? is ange and phagga still in the game
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Reposting
We have the best possible night for town, and we want to lynch a claimed blue, vet? We should take this time to lynch lurkers and scummy newbs, because we have been afforded the opportunity to by our protection roles. Think about who you want to make your reads on later in the game, someone you've played with and is active, or someone that posts once a cycle and you hve never played with and is like flipping a coin. Lynching VE is straight up stupid and if he flips town, it is taking away a scum night kill and a town KP. Do you really think scum are going to shoot players like
cwave,
hyaach,
grush,
manason,
gambit?
These are the players we should be lynching (or SnB cause he claimed scum and I mean just look at his vote on VE that leaves a disclaimer about VE flipping town, 90% reasoning being meta while a quick 1 line about VE's vote switching) because when we get to the late game, these are the players that lose town games
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EPT
