EPTI'll give anyone instant priority on the hosting queue if they day vigi him within 5 minutes of the game starting.
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jk I love you bro <3
Liar Game Mini Mafia
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'll give anyone instant priority on the hosting queue if they day vigi him within 5 minutes of the game starting. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 29 2012 17:43 Ver wrote: I'd prefer revote as well, though it's a bit tricky because then the town can try to abuse it by just extending days forever to get more analysis time. We can forbid abusing it I guess but that's such a gray area. With smaller #'s of people we can accelerate the cycles as well though. Also considering not letting people change their votes because their is no benefit for voting prematurely like in a real game (pressure, changing direction etc) since its all privately and it's going to be a big headache for us + likelihood if mistakes if people change frequently. I don't know how you're going to go about forbidding that since this is a PM game. If it all gets organized behind the scenes in PM land what are you going to do about it? And if the numbers get low to 4 or 6 people alive it will be even harder to "forbid" something like that (since it is more likely to happen). Regardless if it is forbidden, if I know that people are voting a certain way I'm going to be voting to try to get to that tie scenario. Yes I agree don't let people change their votes. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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If we have everyone voting for who they think is town we will end up in a scenario with multiple townies dying. What we need to do is decide on who we want to kill ahead of time before sending in the votes. This will be semi-difficult as we only have half a day since we won't know who is in the majority (any attempt to try to control who is in the majority is a waste of time the first day or two). It is very easy to get someone killed if we can all agree they should be kill. It is not easy to "save" everyone who we perceive to be town. We need the majority to be as close to even as possible. Say there are 11 people in the majority. We want to kill one person (just assume one now for simplicity). With 90 votes to work with, we spread them out such that the 10 players have 9 votes each (relatively easy to design a system to do this). This way if one person tries to deviate and save the target they will fail (and of course we will know they tried at the end of the day). We should be focused on who we think is mafia and who we want to die. I don't care if you think someone is town (nor should you care if I think someone is town). You should only care about who I think is mafia and who you think is mafia. The game will be over really fast if we just let people vote for their town favorite (basically a reverse case of Bang Bang mafia). | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Let's look at his first post: On April 30 2012 22:32 chaoser wrote: I don't know if everyone voting the same answer leads to no minority and then the game going to round B...has anyone asked the hosts about this? Also, I do think that a one person minority and everyone else being in the majority is the right thing to do. Everyone goes to Round B and while yes, it's possible that many townies might be killed at 0 votes, I highly doubt it will really get that bad. The really really bad townies will obviously die this way but that's good for the town as well since it gets rid of distractions early. It's like a vigi hit that the whole town controls. It's basically multi-lynch but not everyone knows the votes. I'm sure the votes will end up sorting things out though. Invisible hand! Free Market! I see here an apathetic attitude towards the town agenda. Notice lines like, "The really really bad townies will obviously die this way but that's good for the town as well since it gets rid of distractions early" which are clearly non-sensical since everyone in this game is good. What really irks me is when he says "It's like a vigi hit that the whole town controls. It's basically multi-lynch but not everyone knows the votes. I'm sure the votes will end up sorting things out though." Is this even helpful in any way? Why would he bother saying these things? Everyone here has read the rules and knows what is going on. It is obvious he doesn't care about what's going to happen..."I'm sure the votes will end up sorting things out..." His attitude is "don't worry guys things will work out in the end". We all know that there is a crap ton we need to be worried about so that 5 people don't end up dying day 1. He has taken a stance on that he wants everyone to be in the majority, but this was originally Wiggles idea. It seems his main reason for justifying the plan is that it is better than Palmar's (not going to discuss whether or not his plan is actually better as that's not what this is about). As I stated above he is okay with having everyone in the majority since he thinks things will work out, and if anyone dies it will be the "really really bad townies" of which do not exist in this game. If you click his filter you can see a few other things that only further my case. He asks a lot of questions and does it in a way to throw doubt around. I have no problem with people asking questions but it does not seem his goal is to accomplish something for the town. Rather he is making everyone skeptical of all the plans that are presented thus far. chaoser needs to die. If he is in the majority we should see to it that he is killed. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 01 2012 03:26 sandroba wrote: @foolishness There will never be a consensus on whom to kill especially if said person is mafia. It's reasonable to assume even a few townies will have a wrong read on and will end up defending scum. Also afaik only the vote tally will be available, not who voted whom. How exactly is that going to work in practice? Only way I can think of is that we get compliance from everyone beforehand, that they will agree to follow the voting scheme if they get out-voted (we do the traditional voting to see who will be lynched). Then we propose a unique voting scheme so we can identify who didn't follow it (each player votes for a unique combination of players). If there is never a consensus we might as well just give up now. Forgot who said it but someone yesterday said something to the effect of, "we should assume since this is liar game if we all work together and trust each other then we will win easily". Nothing will get accomplished if we're not semi-organized with who we want dead. It's really easy to construct a way to distribute votes once we know who we want dead. And we shoot anyone who doesn't follow. You can argue against the lynch candidate but if the rest of the town agrees to kill the person in question you have to suck it up and go with it. That's the only way we can win. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 01 2012 03:46 syllogism wrote: This is why we need a plan for round A; to make sure players we are suspicious of vote with the majority. As I noted earlier, chaoser is who I would be voting to lynch right now and he should definitely not get immunity today. I don't care if he's in the majority or not. If he is then we pressure him and decide if we want to kill him. If he's not we turn our attention elsewhere. We need a few days and a bit of planning before we are able to do anything with the minority voting. Just let it be random for now and go after your suspects. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 01 2012 03:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Just for the plan, or do you have other reasons? Explain. Plans should not be very relevant for the time being. Find a person who you think is mafia and make a case. This discussion will win us the game, not debating what plans we should enact to try to win. If the majority of the town agrees on a person to be killed we should kill that person. As I said it's really easy to get someone killed with the voting system. It's really hard to ensure that all the "townies" survive. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 01 2012 04:04 syllogism wrote: Ah yes, the good old "lets attract as much attention as possible and establish an obvious link between each other" strategy in a two scum team game. Do you genuinely believe this? Not helping. Let the man answer. Give us your own reads thus far, chaoser already has some explaining to do and I trust that he will. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I realize this will be difficult but we need some sort of collective agreement on who to kill. As long as the majority (no pun intended) of us agree on a lynch target then it will be easy to ensure they are killed. For example, say we want to kill sandroba. That leaves 9 people we want to save. We have a total of 90 votes to work with. We vote in such a way to get each 9 players to have 10 votes. This will be done via spreading out (each player will vote for 5 separate people instead of piling all 5 votes on one person). Thus if anyone (dumb townie or mafia) tries to save him they will be unable to get enough votes to do so. And obviously if someone tries to deviate in such a manner we shoot them somehow. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 01 2012 15:07 wherebugsgo wrote: why does it have to be spread out, Foolishness? I guess it doesn't really matter that much, but I think that we should at the very least incorporate something that brings in some semblance of accountability. Did you see what chaoser and I discussed? Because we need to ensure that the person in question is actually killed. It's too easy to save someone otherwise, which will cause a shitstorm because someone else will die and we'll have to deal with it. I don't want to have to go through the pain of figuring out whether someone's claim of being a dumb townie is true or not (because you know that is the card that will be pulled out along the way). There's too much accountability to be had. What can we possibly do if things don't go according to plan and there are 8 people that need to be held accountable? There's no way we can deal with it all in an orderly fashion that's good for the town. It will just lead back to random finger pointing. Best to make sure what we want to happens actually happens. As Ace and Katina said the mafia will reveal themselves over time through the minority voting (else they take a big risk of being lynched). | ||
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Foolishness
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On May 02 2012 11:50 wherebugsgo wrote: if everyone but sandro/VE have 7 votes, then putting sandro/VE at 8 will kill like six townies at once. It's very likely the majority list has 4 mafia in it, so I wouldn't be worried about that. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:00 Protactinium wrote: Prplhz: 6 - (Radfield 3, Palmar 1, sandroba 1, wherebugsgo 1) Sandroba: 5 - (VisceraEyes 5) Viscera Eyes: 4 - (Cephiro 4) Most interesting indeed. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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On May 02 2012 13:42 Ace wrote: Mr.Wiggles is Scum, sandroba is Town. Wrong, right. I'm pretty sure 2 mafia revealed themselves in the votes though. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 03 2012 03:27 Katina wrote: For someone who says the game is about finding mafia you have sure done a dandy job. You have conveniently picked easy targets to attack and have provided next to nothing when it comes to analysis. In fact your filter just has you posting your scum reads in a list like the one above and that's it. I also love reading your big walls of text on the past few pages. Talking about plans nobody cares about; diverting attention away from important posts and the votes and arguing with the person who has the biggest ego. Why if I didn't know better it seems like you are the textbook example of mafia play. :O egads! Is there anyone that actually does not want BC to die? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 03 2012 04:17 Ace wrote: *yawn* People are still alive in this game? What's taking so long to kill everyone? You check your role PM yet? | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
No. I was hoping you could just PM Protactinium a ##Shoot: BloodyC0bbler just in case you had a gun. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Palmar Foolishnesss Syllogism Bloodyc0bbler wherebugsgo Katina Gonzaw There are at least 2 mafia in that list. I have a lot of town reads of people in that list and sadly you are one of the leftovers. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 03 2012 07:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now lets take a gander at mr foolishness. Foolishness strong read as well. Why? Because he made a case on someone only to dump it to pursue 2 other people who were far easier lynches. He provided no real reason as to why he changed his mind and then proceeded to put votes onto the person he had analyzed as mafia to keep said person alive. Factor in Katina is his protege and has ignored her shifty behaviour leads me to believe he is infact red. Give more to this and see that he posted the minority list and generically said "i think 2 of this list is mafia" but didn't clarify who he believes is red aside from me and gave no real substance to back it up. When asked for his reads rather than quickly name the people with even a point form reason as to why they are red he just vanishes completely. Pro stuff. I realize now that I made a case on someone then didn't follow up. That is because I doubted myself after chaoser responded and also because a lot of people disagreed with my case. So I decided to focus elsewhere for the rest of the day. I told a lot of people this in PM land (they can all vouch for me) but I see that I was not clear in the thread. For that I am sorry and that is my bad. I do not think Katina has had shifty behavior. I have talked with her a lot and feel she is being clear and concise. If you are going to go so far as to call her my protégé then you should believe my read of her since I know her best (though I guess if you think I'm mafia this point is moot). Also I don't see anyone jumping on that wagon; chaoser called her scum but never said anything more; 1 or 2 people in PMs told me they also thought she was town. This doesn't mean it's bad for you to analyze her nor am I calling you out on it, I'm just saying I disagree with your read and it seems most people do as well. I explained the reasoning earlier in the game. Mafia families are not going to put all 3 members on the same answer (Yes or No) as this really increases their chance of being in the majority (and thus increases their chance of dying). Thus the mafia families are going to split the votes 2-1 (2 of their members vote one way, the other member votes the opposite). This means that on any given Minority/Majority list there is between 2 and 4 mafia inclusive. So now that Ace is dead I can post the following list: Palmar syllogism BloodyC0bbler Foolishness Katina gonzaw wherebugsgo and say that there are 2 mafia in that list (and maybe 3 or 4). It's quite simple how I reached my conclusion from here (I've had PMs with people to vouch for me on my thoughts). As I said above I think Katina is town. I also think wherebugsgo is town (further given by how much he helped the town yesterday). I think gonzaw is town because he is being clear and concise about his reads. I think syllogism is town because his frustration day 1 seemed genuine and I don't think someone would react the way he did if they were mafia. I thought Ace was being clear and making sense (and he posted the strategy for the game which at the time I was the only other person who thought of that) so I thought he was town. That left you (BloodyC0bbler) and Palmar as the 2 mafia. Strangely I thought Palmar was town from his day 1 play though I'm not so sure anymore. And I'll be honest I thought your posts were pretty lackluster at the beginning of day 1 (but now that you are here posting more this is not so accurate). That's how I arrived at the conclusion you were mafia. And I realize that I've provided next to no analysis on why you are mafia. And I see why this may be bothering you a lot (or any other player for that matter). But I am the person famous for saying, "sometimes the best way to figure out who is mafia is by figuring out who is not mafia". Other players have brought up a few good arguments against you already. There are some things to be said about you. Either way I'm confident there are 2 mafia in that list. I realize you are going to say it's me and Katina, but I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to say about that. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
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syllogism Palmar gonzaw Foolishness Katina wherebugsgo Who are the two mafia? I know who one of them is! + Show Spoiler + BloodyC0bbler of course | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:30 syllogism wrote: Foolishness I would be very interested to hear who you would like to lynch tomorrow. sandroba/Cephiro. I don't see how there can be much debate anymore about this. Though I suppose I can get behind a Sheth lynch. Palmar syllogism Katina gonzaw Foolishness wherebugsgo There is a very very high chance that there is one mafia in that list (and that mafia is not on BC's team). By process of elimination I still advocate that it is Palmar as I more strongly believe the rest are townies (yes I know syllogism, you are 99% Palmar town). I just want people to be aware of that and thinking about it in the future. I'm not advocating we shoot Palmar or anyone else in that list right now. Attention should be shifted to the other list from day 1, as I think it's likely there are 4 mafia in that list (and I'm definitely sure there's at least 3). I'd also like to point out the minority list from day 2: chaoser Liquid`Sheth Mr. Wiggles Radfield sandroba syllogism Again we should assume there are at least 2 mafia in this list (of opposite families). At least one person in this list is part of BC's family. Let's assume that sandroba is mafia. Given how he was nearly killed day 1, I think it's safe to assume that sandroba's two mafia members were in the majority list day 2. Their mafia team voted 2-1 with sandroba as the 1 so that he would have a stronger chance of being in the minority (and thus we would not be able to kill him). So if sandroba flips mafia it is safe to assume that nobody else on the above list is on his team. If sandroba is mafia, then there's two mafia on the same team in the majority list. I think it's most likely that BC and sandroba are on the same team. I would also put Cephiro as their third member. Here's the majority list for day 2 again: BloodyC0bbler Cephiro EchelonTee Foolishness gonzaw Katina Meapak_Ziphh Palmar prplhz wherebugsgo Since BC is mafia, and since everyone seems to agree that there is only 2 mafia in the day 1 minority list, it is also safe to assume that one of BC's allies is in the above list. This goes back to Katina's argument about the cycles. Mafia teams will always vote 2-1 and will alternate between members who is the 1. This is because they don't not want to continuously vote the same 2-1 as it will become very suspicious later on in the game that the same people are voting the same way. What am I getting at? First day BC's mafia team made BC the 1 and his other two members were the 2 and in the majority. Day 2 and the switch to a different member. Which member is most likely to switch to? sandroba. Is it likely that sandroba is part of the other mafia team? I don't think so. That means we need 2 people in the day 2 majority list who are on his team, one of which is from the day 1 minority list. As the day 1 minority list has players everyone seems to perceive as town, and going that mafia team's cycle, this would mean that there are 4 mafia (including BC) in the day 2 majority list. That basically means that of the following players: + Show Spoiler + Cephiro EchelonTee Foolishness gonzaw Katina Meapak_Ziphh Palmar prplhz wherebugsgo there are 3 mafia. I don't find it reasonable that there are 3 mafia in the above list, but if I had to choose it would be Cephiro, Meapak, and Palmar. But even then that's a big stretch as I believe syllogism when he says Palmar is town and I'm leaning town on Meapak. That was a bit confusing. My overall point is that if sandroba is mafia then he's on the same team as BC. I also think it's likely that each of the day 2 minority/majority lists have 3 mafia in them. For the long run, I think it makes sense to kill sandroba/Cephiro first. We then shoot into chaoser/sloosh/Sheth/maybe Meapak. Either way we shoot into the day 1 majority list. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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