Liar Game Mini Mafia
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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Why you ask? The only thing we know of his plan is that it will most benefit him and whichever faction he belongs to. If he is of either mafia family then that side is now instantly ahead. If he is town then town will be reliant on his ability to properly distribute who is town and who isn't. Given that he also wants people to claim it seems off. Of all the day 1 plans his is also well the least pro town. It is the most pro palmar. Now as for how I personally currently account for day 1? I will play the game as honestly as possible. As such the question I have already answered. Trying to figure out a workable plan for day 2 is far more realistic than trying to force one down peoples throats for day 1 given that the first phase is only 24 hours. At this point with almost half the day fully gone and no clear plan established people are going to start voting as they see fit. The most ideal solution in my opinion is to look at the possibility of treating this game moderately as per a normal game of mafia. Set it up with everyone figuring out of the majority list who is most likely to be mafia and arrange the system to make sure only 1 person dies per lynch. Unless we are 100% sure on multiple people being mafia we should not be trying to arrange that more than one person dies. The more deaths there are with little to no solid information is just going to lead to a mafia win unless we get really lucky. As I would prefer to not win via luck, lets do this with solid analysis and reads. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On April 30 2012 23:13 syllogism wrote: I can't say I'm even slightly surprised to see you on the wrong side of a decent plan. This is off-topic, but perhaps you should stop joining games that have non-standard setups if you have no interest in actually figuring out the setup and utilizing it in the way that best benefits the town. That's the whole point. I have many reason to have disdain towards how that game operated. Keep in mind I have been on TL long enough to form opinions on how I believe games should be played. Playing a game attempting to figure out a setup and utilizing it in a way that best benefits the town is a noble goal when done properly. Palmar's plan is so far sub optimal. It best benefits him and the people in his "inner circle" per se. A plan that best benefits the town is one that takes the power away from one specific player and makes us work as a team and in the open. Why? Because this system is one that benefits whoever controls the lynch. One player should not determine why someone should be in the minority or not. Why? If any of the people he is talking to is mafia they can get on his good side and ride minority forever. If he is mafia his team can easily coast to victory as well, etc... By making the first phase of every day something you cannot predict it means mafia cannot easily dodge the lynch. More importantly, it will show patterns of people who are lumped together. Who always votes opposite of eachother, who always votes together, etc.... Why would we want to lose those things? I give props for palmar thinking of a plan, I shake my head as its not a good one. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 08:20 Katina wrote: There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance. Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up. This to me is a way to downplay what mafia do. Anyone who has played a game with Ace when he is red, myself when I am an active red, bugs, foolishness, sandro day 1, know that deception in pm's can be relatively easy. As such the expectation of a 2-1 split would make sense however it is entirely possible people vote in a block of 3 at near no danger to themselves. This is a very simple concept. Now, I say this is a scumtell as its downplaying a very simple mafia move, as well as covering up for the absolute statement she used before of "the mafia team will always be voting in a 2 to 1 method" This is an absolute. It speaks with a level of assurance behind it, thus one made with discussion with people. Only mafia would really need to decide on how they intend to vote. Ace so far is making a ton of sense, will continue to read now. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 07:56 prplhz wrote: I'm very unsure about what's going on and why we're not going with the Palmogisfield-plan. Most of this has just been people not wanting to cooperate and I'm very unsure why. I'm pretty sure we could find a couple people that most everybody wouldn't vote for day1 and it only makes sense to throw them into the minority for more information (and hopefully better odds) in round B. Ace is doing his usual and very useless "you can't have any reads on day1" thing. Then he's like "I'm just going to be an asshole no matter what you do" which is equally useless. All Ace can do day1 is yell at other people for having bad reads. I kinda like Mr. Wiggles but I don't exactly know why. I also like Foolishness and Palmogisfield. I don't have any scum reads. I feel like you're all speaking in russian. I'm looking forward to round B because then I'll have five votes like the rest of you that I can use however I want. Dunno. Hi I am coming into contribute and post nothing of real quality aside from "i like bad plans". | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 11:18 Ace wrote: Orrrrr maybe if you are Town, instead of worrying about proving you are Town you avoid the lynch wagon anyway? This game seems to be a fine example of what we talked about on irc during SS | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 11:09 gonzaw wrote: Yes it's called pressure, what do you want me to do? Votes don't exist in this game I can't vote for anybody, just point out suspicious behaviour and call it out. I stopped reading at this bullshit here. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 01 2012 11:25 Ace wrote: You know what this is so laughable lets keep it simple: If all the Townies do as you say and jump into the MAJORITY who does that leave to go into the Minority? Scum. Which means the only pool that people can be lynched from would be full of Town players. Lol wow this is easy. don't forget that if mafia do the 2-1 voting system everyone seems to think is going to happen then they might be able to lynch one or two random mafia. instead of just townies. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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One vote gives you results of where people landed via min/maj and one is hidden tallies. You should always pressure people if you can but blatantly lying in posts to do said pressure is retarded. | ||
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On May 01 2012 12:02 gonzaw wrote: What the? What are you talking about? I meant that I can't "pressure" wbg, or chaoser by "voting" them like you would normally do in a game. As in, players have 0 fear in Round A, they can't get lynched or anything, and without a plan they can randomly be in the majority or minority. And the "vote" you are speaking of is revealed at the end of Round A, so I don't get what you mean. You too BC, you seem active right now, so can you tell us what you think of Cephiro, chaoser, wbg, Ace, etc? Here are my thoughts on those players you were mentioning: About prplz: I don't see anything scummy with him for now. He keeps talking about "not being sure" about things, and discuss too much what happens with the "Palmogisfield-plan". He posts a lot, but doesn't scumhunt with them at all. I'm waiting for his thoughts on these last events. About Katina: I find it weird that she spoke with "reassurance" like you said, but other than that I can't make much out of her. She does seem very confident in her posts though, Can you guys add Meapak's other account in the filters list? Here it is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=263446 To Ceph: Even though both sentences have the same structure, they are not the same. Being "analytical and calm, taking pressure calmly, caring about the game and posting thoughts in the thread constantly and driving discussion" is not the same as just being "inactive". Argh. I already said you don't need to point fingers or make cases. Post your thoughts! Also, you are not Incognito or those guys that lurk all D1/N1 and then spout 10 gigantic cases in 1 post. You take part of discussion and post thoughts, just like in Death Factory, so I don't believe you saying "Oh I don't like posting reads/thoughts in the thread until I have a gigantic awesome case to make". Ace is ace Cephiro is annoyed at being prodded bugs is bugs Katina is scum etc.... Its day 1. I have already made observations on players that for the most part people have thus far ignored. Posting a ton of reads on people who are either doing jack shit or playing the game purely in pm's is pointless until they post more. There are also a ton of people who have generic day 1 play regardless of alignment that make reading them near impossible for it. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 10:50 gonzaw wrote: I don't get why no one of you would even try to cooperate. At this rate the lynch could be on any of chaoser, VE or Sheth, and scum can choose whoever they like of them to save or kill, specially considering some players seem that they won't claim what they will exactly vote.. @Cephiro: Okay, so you are tunneling wbg now and being greatly aggressive against him too just for calling you out (effectively another OMGUS) Noted. The thing I don't get is why the hell Ace is playing like he's playing. I know people fear him and shit when he's scum because he's cunning, sways people, etc...but unless I'm missing something in PM land he's just completely useless this game. I even doubt he's scum because of that, but fuck he's being so uncooperative and useless it's hard to believe that. Why would anyone fear ace? He is by far one of the easiest people to deal with in the game. If you think hes useless lynch / shoot him. If you think hes helpful, dont lynch or shoot him and instead med him. As for pm land, it is doubtful he is highly active there as he is renowned for saying how much he hates pm's. As for general way thread is going at the moment. If VE honestly dropped a ton of votes on sandro he has to go. As much as I believe acting individually during phase A is ideal to avoid mafia manipulating the majority/minority system to always be safe, phase B is more important in regards to making sure the scummiest player or if we all agree, players are lynched. Anyone who blatantly refuses to go along with a decision that everyone was basically in agreement of (or at least if they weren't no solid defense was ever provided of sandro) then that person has to be dealt with somehow to avoid continued purposeful sabotage of the voting period. Sandro has yet to come in and provide a reasonable defense of himself. I say this as he made his comment on what he had been up to, but had not at any point then followed it up with any form of solid town sandro play to assure us our worries were unfounded. Has anyone new information on this? VE, why have you gone so suddenly appearing so damn crazy -_-. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 11:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Tell me you're surprised so I can laugh mercilessly at you BC. I go a little crazy EVERY game. It's motherfucking endearing, damnit. this level of crazy? You were more or less fully coherent in storm, and at least went into your decisive reasoning in most other games even if only at minor levels as to why you thought someone was scum. -_- this just seems like a frustrated player purposely being disruptive now. | ||
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On May 02 2012 10:55 gonzaw wrote: I said he started tunneling, because it's obvious that's where that is going. Hey BC, could you come to the thread and contribute and shit? I know you are PMing with wbg because your votes were updated in the spreadsheet. takes time to catch up on a thread / on all the goings on in pm land after sleeping then going to work. If you expect automatic activity upon return you must not expect me to ever think about anything. | ||
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On May 02 2012 19:35 Palmar wrote: BC/Ace, can you explain why you decided to go for "No" in the first question? It was apparent that despite people not listening to me, yes was going to be the majority. Did you have a particular fear that being on the majority side would end up getting you killed? I had voted 2 hours into the day. Well before any plans had ever been discussed about. Why? Because my work days early week can easily prevent me from being home in time to vote and being able to find time to use my phone for it also isn't guarenteed. As for why I voted sheth? I discussed my votes with wbg before I placed my votes to ensure that only the two people the majority of people wanted to get lynched would be the only ones that could be lynched. As for you guys. Stop expecting me to be online between midnight - 8am est time. The only reasons I am ever awake that early are to go to work and I will never wake up with enough time to invest into a mafia game on those days. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 02 2012 22:25 Palmar wrote: So do you have a solid town read on Sheth? Do you have a solid town read on WBG? And feel free to answer my questions on your own time, I never said I expected you to be awake at night, just don't expect me to be awake at night to post questions for you. Why did you sign up if you didn't have time to play the game? Do you really think that being around for the first 2 hours of every phase is enough? You're going to be held accountable for what you do. I actually don't believe that in the remaining 22 hours of the first phase you never found the time to change your "no" to "yes", thus I'm going to be working under the assumption you did it intentionally. I need to figure out why. Can you give me your top 3 town and scum reads? I am unsure of sheth and bugs was compiling a list of voters to ensure that the only two to be lynched were going to be VE and roba. Nothing roba has done has swayed me in believing that he is town so I was fine with his lynch. I had mixed reservations about VE but as they were the only two on the docket I made sure no one else got random lynched due to lack of votes. As for signing up if I don't have enough time? I have been around directly after phases begin, and 2ish hours before the phase ends. Given that my work schedule is one that typically 4 out of 7 days in a week I can have solid amount of time to do things then It is no issue. As for signing up if I don't have time to play? You do not need to invest your life into a game of mafia to have time to play it. As for changing my vote? All votes are absolute and may not be changed according to the OP. No reason to believe that incog or ver is lying about that. I am glad that you intentionally view people negatively who follow what the hosts say though. As for top scum reads? Katina, prpl, and roba. Town reads are near useless to post so I won't bother. The game is about finding mafia not finding town. You merely get the advantage of the second as you start lynching / vigi'ing mafia. | ||
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On May 02 2012 22:26 Palmar wrote: especially given the fact you still had time to attack my plan, much later than 2 hours into the game, although you did disappear after you decided my plan was bad because you don't approve of that being how to play the game or something equally irrelevant. No plan in a setup as this should put all the power into the hands of one player. Period. You deciding who warrants lynch protection and who doesn't is not something I at all feel comfortable in. Anyone with half a brain would realize this as well. With the amount of kickback you had to your plan even you should have realized it was flawed. I should not have to go into massive detail to rehash what multiple other people have said. But here it is for you Any plan that puts one person whos alignment is hidden (as in no one truely knows your alignment but you) in a setup that is heavily weighted to put an emphasis on manipulation by town and both mafia families to control who ends up in majority / minority and then figuring out lynches and avoiding massive death in one of those lynches should never have 1 singular person dictating the information. Who cares if you are "responsible" if something bad happens. If something horrific happens town may never be able to recover because of how long it took to realize you fail leading / are red. Ace has said relevant things aside from his spam. This setup is one where you need to be an individual moreso than normal as every single person is going to be more likely to push an agenda. You had a very anti town approach given the setup of this game. Why would I ever follow that? Show me how your plan's pros outweigh the con's. | ||
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On May 02 2012 22:53 Palmar wrote: I wasn't aware that you couldn't change votes. This game is absolutely about finding townies, it's the best way to increase your chances of hitting mafia. Why do you think Ace is making sense? You mentioned him specifically making sense in one of your posts. I don't see him as making sense at all, I see him as worthless at best, scum at worst. You still haven't explained what you meant by giving me props for making a bad plan. I could see that working for a new player, where you expect them to fail, but their enthusiasm means they probably are town, but do you honestly think that if I created a plan that is bad for us, I did so unintentionally? You had people coming out in support almost as soon as you posted it. IE you obviously talked it through with people. It is quite possible you were convinced it was a good plan with their help or they opted to not inform you as it was good for them and not you. I said you have props for trying to organize the day into something non chaotic. Your plan was bad, but the try was there. Do I think this means you are town? no. I find it very likely that either yourself or one of the people you talk to closely is most likely red given how anti town your idea was. As for finding townies? If someone acts scummy you analyze them and if you still feel confident in that read you lynch/shoot them. The only role in this game who spending time finding townies is not horrible is a dt as every confirmed alignment "stress on confirmed" is important. Short of death or being a dt no one can ever confirm your alignment. You can assume someone is town and operate off that idea however that does not mean your read is accurate. It is far simpler to operate on the "i am town and until I find and kill the mafia I will view everyone else as red" As people start dying you're reads alter slightly and people have more likelyhood of being town over red based off their choices and thus become people you won't push unless things change. They could still easily be red. By concentrating on finding townies as well as mafia you are spending the game day 1 before deaths attempting to correctly identify 17 other players instead of correctly trying to identify 6. You can put more time and energy towards finding the scum if you concentrate on looking for them as opposed to concentrating looking for town. IMO if you are not a dt the only people concerned with figuring out a townie instead of a mafia in this setup is in fact mafia as they need to know who their competition is to eliminate whereas town just needs to kill reds. | ||
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On May 02 2012 23:19 syllogism wrote: No the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia and he isn't. If you can't tell that he is town by now, that is your own failure but does not make the plan bad. If you analyzing the game and not finding townies, you are playing very, very wrong. I analyze people and put them in the "unlikely to be mafia at this time" category. As for the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia? incorrect. If he is mafia, believes one of his advisors is town who is mafia, if he is bad, etc... All make it bad. This game is designed in such a way via the voting mechanism that the mafia are going to be far more pro active than most other games. This means they are almost certainly going to be more active in either thread or pm's to manipulate townies / find the other family and get control of as many votes as possible. Why would I at anytime trust people who put forth a plan that requires me to take their word at "its ok guys im legit" essentially. Until someone flips you cannot know 100% that they are town. You can think the chances of them being it are higher than being scum, but that doesn't make them guarenteed town. It is far easier to just assume everyone is red and narrow down on specific players based on behaviour/performance. Once the reds are dead the town wins and you then know who is town. | ||
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On May 03 2012 03:27 Katina wrote: For someone who says the game is about finding mafia you have sure done a dandy job. You have conveniently picked easy targets to attack and have provided next to nothing when it comes to analysis. In fact your filter just has you posting your scum reads in a list like the one above and that's it. I also love reading your big walls of text on the past few pages. Talking about plans nobody cares about; diverting attention away from important posts and the votes and arguing with the person who has the biggest ego. Why if I didn't know better it seems like you are the textbook example of mafia play. :O egads! I recall analyzing you and never getting a response back. Seems I did this to prpl as well and again it went ignored. The fact you have missed both those while going over my filter is very impressive. I also love that you are currently hopping on the train of attack BC along with the others. Seems like you like easy targets as well? By continuing the actual push on me as opposed to bringing anything new to the table and avoiding any heat thrown on you by being inactive as hell it seems like you are the textbook example of mafia play. HORRY SHIZ. Seriously. People. Do posts like this On May 03 2012 03:36 Foolishness wrote: Is there anyone that actually does not want BC to die? Actually stand as reasonable posting behaviour now? Foolishness not even posting analysis or even a reason on why he suspects me? Spends most of the game sitting outside of the thread? Hell the only person he came out and analyzed and called scum he didn't even push for openly as the lynch target. He never even gives a reason why hes going to hold off on chaoser nor provides any insightful input as to why sandroba or VE made better targets. It is nice to see that people don't like seeing whats in front of them though. Makes me sad to see players just don't like to correct their mistakes in how they play. | ||
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On May 03 2012 05:45 Foolishness wrote: Ace Palmar Foolishnesss Syllogism Bloodyc0bbler wherebugsgo Katina Gonzaw There are at least 2 mafia in that list. I have a lot of town reads of people in that list and sadly you are one of the leftovers. Interesting I have 2 comfortable red reads and someone who easily fits the bill for third party in that list. With the rest of the names all equal of doing scummy things. As I find it unlikely all the mafia managed to slide into this list I will admit there are likely town but near everyone on it is guilty of mafia behaviour. Kudos for being vague though. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 03 2012 05:59 prplhz wrote: @BloodyC0bbler Who exactly are these "2 confortable red reads"? I have made near all my reads fairly clear so far. How about you explain your horrible behaviour in this game then I will answer your question given that you have dodged the earlier heat on you as well by ignoring it. So far no solid reason has been given on me yet at least two players are fine with killing me with 0 reason aside from "you are on a list of 8 names and I think there are x random number reds on it and I threw a dart at your name" I coulda sworn this was not how we play mafia. Apparently I was misinformed. I also expected better of phil given his history. | ||
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On May 03 2012 07:11 Ace wrote: I could post the playerlist of the game and come to the same conclusion. Bullshit post with no reasoning on to how you got this. Scum. You also noticed his analysis earlier on on why chaoser should die? then him swap willy nilly over to roba/ve lynch then give votes to save the guy he analyzed as scum? epic play yo | ||
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On May 03 2012 07:21 prplhz wrote: it's the minority list kiddo are you even reading the game? It doesn't change the point of the post -_-. | ||
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Now lets take a gander at mr foolishness. Foolishness strong read as well. Why? Because he made a case on someone only to dump it to pursue 2 other people who were far easier lynches. He provided no real reason as to why he changed his mind and then proceeded to put votes onto the person he had analyzed as mafia to keep said person alive. Factor in Katina is his protege and has ignored her shifty behaviour leads me to believe he is infact red. Give more to this and see that he posted the minority list and generically said "i think 2 of this list is mafia" but didn't clarify who he believes is red aside from me and gave no real substance to back it up. When asked for his reads rather than quickly name the people with even a point form reason as to why they are red he just vanishes completely. Pro stuff. Prplhz Guy is clearly mafia. Anyone just look at his filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=126438 He has done fucking nothing. I mean nothing. He has stepped up very slightly since the night phase started but look at his day 1. he starts with one liners which sucks but whatever beginning of the game. He then moves onto a huge post which says all of "i want to talk about potential blue roles, discussion on plans proposed and then saying he trusts two other peoples reads of eachother so was going to sheep their idea. Yet he doesn't state why he trusts either of those people, or why he even likes their plan aside of liking the reads they had on eachother. he moves on to say he was going to be active then begins posting on plans other people have posted then ends with "i have no scum reads" after naming a bunch of town reads with no justification behind said reads. He asks other people what to do rather than figuring stuff out on his own and seems more worried about sheeping others than coming up with anything individual or unique thus attempting to just fit in without being noticed. Which is exactly why he is being noticed right now -_- He is scum. | ||
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On May 03 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote: well at the very least it changes the part where he says "with no reasoning on to how you got this." also, i wanted to call ace "kiddo" and i think it was funny because i PM'd foolishness the same question and because i didn't read half the thread yet. i'm at page 15 with and then i read again from nightpost and then i read a few filters. i think it's pretty rude of you that you're ignoring my PM. could you please tell me who your two comfortable scum reads are? you are even alluding that you already said it in the thread, why wont you repeat it to me when i'm asking you so nicely? Eh? I was making a post. However based on how I have been posting it was pretty obvious on my suspicions. | ||
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On May 03 2012 08:53 Katina wrote: From a guy who has played for how long? Your reads are a little rusty it would seem. Just because I have been coached doesn't mean anything. I'm here reading the thread and PM'ing to try and figure out who is Mafia. I apologize for not throwing out half assed accusations and "cases" filled with complete nonsense. I don't intend to clutter the thread with my uncertainties, so I apologize for wanting to be more than 50% confident in my reads. It may not be my first game but it still takes practice before I turn into the Jackie Chan of Mafia. Complete nonsense? I want you to post. Sitting around reading and pming doesn't do much if the rest of the players can't act on it. As for being coached? It means everything. It means you were given a set of tools by a top player that most people had to either learn on their own. The player who taught you is also near one of the best scum hunters on the forum. As for half assed accusations? You were posting with complete certainty earlier with how the mafia would actually act. How is it that you are completely certain of something that you could only know 100% was if you were mafia and had discussed said idea? I am not expecting you to be the jackie chan of mafia, I am expecting you to do more than lurk and be half assed in your posting as you have been. | ||
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On May 03 2012 16:51 syllogism wrote: Why would you ever, allegedly, send in your answer this early if you are town? What's the rush? Afraid that town will come up with a plan and going against it will make you look bad? If someone doesnt trust you or palmar and your plan was the only one on the docket why would someone wait for it? If you have near no time to play for that given phase why would you wait and risk mod punishment etc... | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 03 2012 14:35 Foolishness wrote: I realize now that I made a case on someone then didn't follow up. That is because I doubted myself after chaoser responded and also because a lot of people disagreed with my case. So I decided to focus elsewhere for the rest of the day. I told a lot of people this in PM land (they can all vouch for me) but I see that I was not clear in the thread. For that I am sorry and that is my bad. I do not think Katina has had shifty behavior. I have talked with her a lot and feel she is being clear and concise. If you are going to go so far as to call her my protégé then you should believe my read of her since I know her best (though I guess if you think I'm mafia this point is moot). Also I don't see anyone jumping on that wagon; chaoser called her scum but never said anything more; 1 or 2 people in PMs told me they also thought she was town. This doesn't mean it's bad for you to analyze her nor am I calling you out on it, I'm just saying I disagree with your read and it seems most people do as well. I explained the reasoning earlier in the game. Mafia families are not going to put all 3 members on the same answer (Yes or No) as this really increases their chance of being in the majority (and thus increases their chance of dying). Thus the mafia families are going to split the votes 2-1 (2 of their members vote one way, the other member votes the opposite). This means that on any given Minority/Majority list there is between 2 and 4 mafia inclusive. So now that Ace is dead I can post the following list: Palmar syllogism BloodyC0bbler Foolishness Katina gonzaw wherebugsgo and say that there are 2 mafia in that list (and maybe 3 or 4). It's quite simple how I reached my conclusion from here (I've had PMs with people to vouch for me on my thoughts). As I said above I think Katina is town. I also think wherebugsgo is town (further given by how much he helped the town yesterday). I think gonzaw is town because he is being clear and concise about his reads. I think syllogism is town because his frustration day 1 seemed genuine and I don't think someone would react the way he did if they were mafia. I thought Ace was being clear and making sense (and he posted the strategy for the game which at the time I was the only other person who thought of that) so I thought he was town. That left you (BloodyC0bbler) and Palmar as the 2 mafia. Strangely I thought Palmar was town from his day 1 play though I'm not so sure anymore. And I'll be honest I thought your posts were pretty lackluster at the beginning of day 1 (but now that you are here posting more this is not so accurate). That's how I arrived at the conclusion you were mafia. And I realize that I've provided next to no analysis on why you are mafia. And I see why this may be bothering you a lot (or any other player for that matter). But I am the person famous for saying, "sometimes the best way to figure out who is mafia is by figuring out who is not mafia". Other players have brought up a few good arguments against you already. There are some things to be said about you. Either way I'm confident there are 2 mafia in that list. I realize you are going to say it's me and Katina, but I'm more interested in hearing what other people have to say about that. I find it weird that you view the "few good arguments against me already" when most of those arguments were generic and could be applied across the board to many players and in some cases yourself. You have already seen some of the ones I could easily spot on your own behaviour that look terrible. I believe that you not following your read with such little thread posting and actual reasoning publically is very unlike your town play and as such will continue to scruitinize you. Why? Because I know that when you are red you hate being noticed and pressured. I also find it odd that you woul dsay that no mafia team would ever do a 3 player stack on yes or no as it would increase their chances of being lynched. This is true, but if one were to do it day 1 where you had a reasonable idea of where the votes were going via someones idea thrown in the thread you could safely vote stack to a point and still manage to snake your entire team onto the minority side, or purposely put it on the majority side and do one day of "risky" play for the advantage later of "no one would stack their team ever in this game" mindset. I will agree that there is at least 2 mafia in that list. I don't see anywhere for there not to be, however I am willing to say there is as many as 5 (unlikely but possible). I do appreciate that you finally brought out a solid post since your chaoser post, however I would also like to know some of your reads, or a solid case on someone given that people will be expecting that from you. I have worked with you enough to know you are always analyzing people and always have some reads to push. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:13 Palmar wrote: oh my bad, I was just browsing your filter. Meh, I was hoping for something on sandroba, I didn't notice that your filter on motbob was 2 pages. prplhz is confirmed town anyway. Really? He has yet to confim himself here | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:15 Palmar wrote: No he has, you just don't know it yet. You will have to forgive me but i dont believe you. as i dont trust you and he hasnt done anything here to make me not suspect him i will not take you're word for it | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Out of players like palmar or syllo such bad horrific play is to be expected. It is part of their general play. However when players like foolishness even by this point in time have yet to create an actual case against me then it is an obvious tell he is red. If he truely believed I was red and knew that there was even any remote kickback to this game he would try to garner people to vote in a way to have me killed by posting reasons as to why I should not be saved. Instead we have such posts as On May 04 2012 12:04 Foolishness wrote: I vote we either kill BC or Cephiro (or both!) Anyone also notice how his protoge katina has vanished almost entirely from this thread and has yet to make a single post in roughly 40 hours? Both people I fingered as reds have yet to do anything aside from lurk and spend happy fun times in pms. Very interesting wouldn't you all think? Foolishness' meta is fairly standard, and not posting his reads in a way to actually push them in thread is one of his mafia tells and has been for ages. But you guys ignore those things cause its what you do. As for wonder gems like this On May 04 2012 16:54 EchelonTee wrote: Tomorrow is last day of school. Craziness is ensuing (it's a shitshow if yout know what I mean), so it might be tough to keep my responses coherant. People I most support lynching: BC, prplhz, Cephiro in that order. BC - earlier claimed to analyze prplhz/Katina; in reality had never explained his positions. position on Katina in particular is completely baseless and reeks of fakeness because of being forced to make a read. Has only shat on other people's plans. Says Round A is time for people to be accountable; he doesn't make himself accountable for his "no" vote to keep him from being scrutinized. overall tone unhelpful, derrogative. should die. prplhz - skirted by on "sorry i play so bad I was busy"; fact remains that he has been present throughout the game (has many posts) but extremely little content, scumhunting, or pro-town behavior at all. that's called active lurking Cephiro - I'm not as sold on his alignment compared to the other two (because of the manner in which he defends himself), but he hasn't done much things to make him look town. says that the case on him is all meta, but based solely on his thread he's been disruptive (interactions with gonzaw, Palmar) while simultaneously doing jack himself. Person who I would want lynched right now but can't: sheth I have reasoning, no need to muddle the thread atm, but keep eyes on him please. @chaoser: my opinion of sandroba - voting trends suggest he's town, and in thread he hasn't been significantly more lurky than others, while also hasn't been disruptive. while prplhz has had plenty of time to catch up by now, it's clear sandroba has only had time to be here or there and honestly should've replaced out like Radfield did. will be obvious as hell if he's scum as time goes on, so not at the top of my concern list. I'm going to hold off on my votes until it's clear how we will get done what we want to get done. This is coming from a player who has to this point in the game (at least in thread) done absolutely nothing at all. He suddenly bangs out his first "analysis" post and begins to jump on the same people who have been FoS'd or pressured for the last 24+ hours. Rather than contributing anything new he rehashes the same arguments that have been made previously as if they justify an opinion. He in the same posts claims that he thinks someone else is scum but they won't get lynched so its pointless, but rather than share his reads so that people may agree or disagree with him its "i dont want to muddle the thread". New analysis is never muddling the thread unless you are spamming it for pages. As for his opinion on roba, its friggen amusing. He has done nothing to help anyone in this game that I know of. Roba's scum meta is to do fuckall all game. His town meta is to take charge and think of plans. Which does he represent? Then we have a post like this out of syllo On May 04 2012 16:35 syllogism wrote: Sheth is mafia, I can guarantee this. Anyway, we are killing BC and/or Cephiro today. Do not vote yet if you are town, as WBG says. He at not point in time has said anywhere that I have seen that he can guarentee that his read on me or cephiro is correct but he did say he can guarentee Sheths. As such Sheth is obviously his strongest read yet rather than push it he is pushing the lynch on two other players. Everyone seriously look at the players attempting to run this game. They give you near no reasons for why they believe what they believe, are actively keeping content out of the thread, and providing near no reasons for why they do what they do. If you also notice the main people being suspected for being scum that should die are all the people who have primarily been giving them any kickback. Ace, and VE both fought their plans, died and flipped green. It is obvious that there is no intent at the moment in them finding reds, it is about removing any voice who speaks against them. That is not how town wins games. Mafia win games like that. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 05 2012 00:48 syllogism wrote: Sheth and Sandroba are in the minority. Who are you going to vote to keep alive? the obvious townie you guys are trying to get lynched that I am able to vote for. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 05 2012 00:57 Palmar wrote: If it makes you feel better BC, I'd lynch sheth and sandroba in a heartbeat if I could. Probably along with yourself! But alas, they gambled correctly on the yes/no thing, you didn't. I guess there's nothing left for you but Cephiro, how romantic! eh? how about you provide a solid reason as to why either of us are red seriously. I have yet to see a comprehensive argument out of anyone aside from "dont think these people are manipulating me thus you have to be red" and even if that was a not reason for you and the rest of your cohorts to opt on, at least one of you would realize others would need far more than that. Yet you aren't in any way trying to provide those reasons. Hell you have people saying I believe x is guarenteed scum and rather than outlining why for a future lynch you just leave it at that? Thus again making people take your word for it? You have prpl in the majority docket as well and he was heavily suspected for two days in a row but there has been no solid town play from him, how is he avoiding near all notice and instead getting comments like On May 04 2012 02:13 Palmar wrote: oh my bad, I was just browsing your filter. Meh, I was hoping for something on sandroba, I didn't notice that your filter on motbob was 2 pages. prplhz is confirmed town anyway. Yet nothing he has done has in any way shape or form suggested he was town. No one has solidly addressed the analysis on him, and instead just claim hes legit with no basis or at least no provided basis of it. Do you even understand why people suspect one of you or syllo or a possibility of both as being red? | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 05 2012 01:13 syllogism wrote: We have basis for calling him town, we just haven't explained it in public and aren't particularly interested in convincing mafia. The only "people" who seriously "suspect" us are mafia. Really? Two people suspected you previous who flipped town. That would suggest to me that people who suspect you are not as you say "just mafia" As for haven't explained in public? Does that mean you have found and confirmed by day 2 every single townie in the game and convinced them? The answer is obviously no. By posting reads and reasons publically you actually reach out and help the people who are pushing against you for pushing a very pro mafia strategy as you are employing it and turning it into a more townlike one. Then again, you don't care about that, you care about killing people who see you for what you are and leave the sheep for you to cull later. On May 05 2012 02:04 Katina wrote: It's called a life, yo! Sandroba used it and he is still alive, why can't I?? Seriously though, I have been in PM land. I'll be honest, with everything taken care of there there wasn't a need to post in the thread. At the times I was around nothing was happening in the thread or there was arguing about Cephiro which was something I did not want to get involved in. Not a good excuse I know but surely you can understand. I would like to address this post you just made though. I don't see how this helps the town at all. Everything I see with it is just pushing a mafia agenda. You have been consistent with wanting to kill myself and Foolishness I'll give you that. But as for general posting behavior all you've done is thrown doubt around at the people who are trying to lead the town to victory. This includes Foolishness, but you've attacked syllogism and Palmar now. I have my doubts about these two but at least they have both tried to do something. You seem more content on just shutting down everyone's plans and instilling doubt in the town. And this seems to take priority for you over pushing your reads. Saying that the intent is "about removing any voice who speaks against them" is silly. It seems to me some of these people (Foolishness, gonzaw, wherebugsgo, syllogism) are more concerned about finding mafia than anything else. sandroba is mafia but he's not speaking out against them. Cephiro isn't speaking out against them so much as just trying to stupidly defend himself. You are the one who is speaking out about the scum hunters, who is pushing an agenda, who is slinging doubt around, who is not actively trying to make plans [I recall you saying something early that trying to make plans is stupid and we should just scumhunt. People in PM land (guess who!!!) tell me that this is not like your town play] Because he can't either? No one can use that as a reason to avoid suspicion. If you claimed "life" kept you away from specific time periods but you used the ones you did have to actively post and clearly show your intentions were not that of the mafia then it would be more accepted. However you have not used the time you are around to prove anything to anyone aside from the people you listed as ones you pm to. As for you saying those 4 people are heavily concerned about finding mafia more than anything else? This is possibly true. However, there are two families. Mafia is naturally going to want to find the mafia as to remove the opposing team. The tell that they are not town is the fact they are not trying to actively push their agenda with reasoning. There is no commital to the cause. Saying "i think x is red lets kill him" and then the lynch flips green lets them get off with the "oh well my bad he looked really bad and we all sheeped him etc..." which works better than people believe. As for me throwing doubt at the people "trying to lead the town to victory" of course I am. I believe that one of palmar/syllo is scum and I think you and foolishness are scum. Why would I ever say "well I think half these guys are mafia but ima let them do as they please anyway" That is the most retarded thing I think I have seen anyone say. Whats worse is you even say you have doubts about them. IE you are suspicious that 1 or both are scum yet ARE STILL FOLLOWING THEIR CALLS. THIS IS NOT GOOD PLAY. In fact all you did was just confirm you are scum. As for roba ? Everyone has been so busy pushing me or ceph that he has gone near unnoticed by lack of posting and has been brought up by people like me. Cephiro? He is actively disagreeing with their reads and pressuring them believing scum are heavily involved in that "leading group". Roba has been near undiscussed for a day, cephiro is being pushed for death. My point still stands. I am speaking out against the scum hunters who are not actively scum hunting in a way to convince anyone of their reads. They are instead using pms to manipulate / garner votes to push what they want to do with 0 chance of reprecussions why? Because you can lie about or fake pm's which lead to a clusterfuck later. I on the otherhand have posted analysis and pushed my reads with publically stated reasons. As for the people who say what my town play is or isn't? Keep in mind I was town in my last game and bashed roba for similar reasons to bashing peoples plans this games. Oh wait I only fingered Palmar/syllo's as bad. I actually followed one of the others for the lynch vote. Before you try and talk to me youngin have your mafia team coach you more. You are obviously not ready to tangle with the big boys. On May 05 2012 03:56 Katina wrote: You’re right, we never get to chat! I’m Katina, my favorite color is green, I like dogs, my hobby is video games, drawing, and teasing Foolishness, I hate spiders, I am terrified of heights and I enjoy taking candy from babies and small children. Today my reads out of the Majority are: BC: He is my top priority and I would like to see him lynched (As I just stated in my recent post) He is instilling doubt in the town, he's trying to shut down any plan that is made and out of everyone I feel like he's the one that has an agenda. I don't see how it can be a town favored agenda. I feel like he's trying to undermine people who are being helpful to the town. If we can't kill BC I would like to kill Cephiro. Oh wait, you still want to kill me. Guess what deary. Perhaps you can find every post where I called every plan bad? Perhaps you can find the posts where I have been instilling doubt in the town? I have been analyzing people who have already proven they don't care about the town nor are performing as per their standard town play. They are actively ignoring anti town actions and pushing out against people pushing against them. Being public with my reads, actively trying to see the people I view as scum and then moving to do that is how I play town. Go read mafia L where as town I pushed the lynches heavily and in a few cases hit town but with the help of people like foolishness and incog we got mafia consitently. Oh that was also a game that as town, even with him acting in pms, foolishness was still vocal with his reads publically to make sure the correct person was lynched. He included all his reasons in those posts as well. Stop sheeping people, start thinking. This is supposed a game with high skill level given the lineup and so far people are ignoring the obvious scum infront of them. Makes me sad. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:33 EchelonTee wrote: I am the one who mentioned that you had never analyzed Katina despite claiming you did. you didn't respond back then. no one else has mentioned your "Round A accountable" post. Both are points that I've brought up individually. And still, you still attack the attacker, and not the arguement; I haven't done absolutely nothing at all. That's so far from the truth it's hilarious that you would even post that. Read my filter. There's stuff in it. I've been continuously active both in-thread and in PMs. Why don't you talk about any of the cases on you? @chaoser I tunneled someone off of meta reasons before and that went badly (Surprisingly Normal Mini VII); I've learned that it's better to give people time if it seems like they don't have time. I already posted why my opinion changed over time, again, read my filter. The case on Sandroba is "he's lurking", which isn't very substantial. Syllogism claims that sandroba "claimed scum" in pms; if that evidence is conclusive then fine, but based on thread sandroba isn't the scummiest scum around. Besides, he's not in majority; shoould dicuss majority lynches, no? we've only got like 8 hrs, need to organize. going to drink. bye I have one post on katina analyzing her via a post of hers I quoted which is the first case I made on her, and I have one post on prpl doing the same. I claimed things I did do, amazing. Just because I did not specifically outline it as "this is an analysis post" means you just did not read my filter. As for attacking the attacker? I analyze the player. You have already proven to have incorrect reads and have a horrible tendancy of jumping on the most popular wagon to "analyze" of course I am going to say you have done nothing. You haven't. You parrot other people as if its your own work. That is you attempting to fit in, not you actually contributing. Now you could obviously be active in pm's but guess what. Mafia benefit more from PM play than Town does in this setup. Or am I the only one who has realized this? | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 01 2012 21:10 Palmar wrote: I want to kill VE On May 02 2012 07:40 Katina wrote: O.o I like this. If I had a dime for a everytime someone called me scum without reasoning I would have enough hookers to serve the entire mafia community. Rawr. After going back and rereading, I think that Radfield, VE, Sandroba, EcholenTee should die in the Majority. I have explained Rafield and EcholenTee in one of my previous posts. VE and Sandroba should die for not helping the town. By the way Palmar is Mafia. On May 01 2012 15:03 Foolishness wrote: First we should focus on who we want to kill. Personally I'm fine with VE or sandroba at this point (going to hold off on chaoser for now) and I could be convinced for Radfield as well. I realize this will be difficult but we need some sort of collective agreement on who to kill. As long as the majority (no pun intended) of us agree on a lynch target then it will be easy to ensure they are killed. For example, say we want to kill sandroba. That leaves 9 people we want to save. We have a total of 90 votes to work with. We vote in such a way to get each 9 players to have 10 votes. This will be done via spreading out (each player will vote for 5 separate people instead of piling all 5 votes on one person). Thus if anyone (dumb townie or mafia) tries to save him they will be unable to get enough votes to do so. And obviously if someone tries to deviate in such a manner we shoot them somehow. On May 02 2012 06:13 gonzaw wrote: About VE: I was leaning town on him at first, because he was very aggressive, and at first he was actively trying to find some scum on wbg (although in a retarded fashion). However, since then he's just trolling, being disruptive, acting defeated even though not many people actually FoSed him or anything. Is this a trend or something? It's been 3 games in a row were people FoS VE and he starts acting like a crybaby and rage quitting. I'm comparing this to LIII, where he had quite a few votes on him when he ragequitted, and quite a lot of opposition. And there he at least contributed with his reads as well, and also claimed. But now he had hardly any pressure at all when he started acting like this, and didn't contribute at all afterwards. I could see his motivation for ragequitting on LIII, but now I don't see any motivation for him to do so, specially when there isn't a normal lynch system in this game. That makes me think he's most likely mafia . You are right syllo, both you and bugs never actively said that you wanted ve or ace dead. I do have bugs saying he believed VE was scum in pms though. As such I do have palmar, katina, foolishness, bugs and gonza all fine with VE, and confrontation between ace and many of you via his filter. So i have 5 of 6 people fine with killing a townie, and another large group at confrontation with one who died who was being aggresive towards what you guys were doing. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:28 Palmar wrote: Go BC, the bullshit meter is almost full. as for sandroba it's pointless talking about him, everyone knows he's scum, we can't kill him atm. If someone gives you or ceph even a single vote I shall tunnel that person with all my wrath. yes yours is. So far I am using things people have said in thread thus making my opinions based on information everyone can see. Anyone can see how and where I am getting my info from and seeing how I interpret it as I am telling them my opinions and analysis via that information. Glad you are agreeing that your bullshit is almost full though. Nice to see you are learning you are wrong. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 05 2012 04:30 Palmar wrote: @sheth, just sheep whatever I'm doing, and atm I'm doing whatever syllo is doing, so you should sheep him. btw, your reads that don't say BC and Ceph are scum are wrong. ROFL. How is this pro town at all. Sheeping people with no thought is something mafia want not town. Sheth make your own calls via what you believe. If that ends up being the same thing that Palmar and his crew are doing at least you ended up reaching that point on your own, not because they told you to. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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Hopefully you will do the right thing and I will be around to continue to scumhunt. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On May 05 2012 06:02 sandroba wrote: Honestly I bc's thread behavior is being on par with his behavior as town or mafia which I really can't tell apart. However I'm pretty sure sheth is mafia and BC gave him 4 votes ytd for no reason. Also he is also discussing me right now who am in the minority so that just seems like distraction and throwing shit in the fan. He never even metions sheth prior to his voting. Cephiro I think is town due to behavior on thread. Not much to say about him since there is aparently no case against him. eh? he got my votes because he wasn't someone to be lynched that day and had near 0 when I placed votes on him to prevent his death. I discussed these votes with bugs before I placed them as bugs was the one compiling the list of where votes were going. I had no reason aside from keeping him from being killed accidently because no one gave him votes. Was pretty sure I stated this already. As for bringing your name up. Regardless of if someone is in the minority if someone suspects them they should be mentioned thus someone (in this case me) ends up dying and I never have my cases down to be followed later. | ||
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