EPTIf I can no-vote, then I'll obviously do that.
If I can't, then I'll rethink things again in the next phase.
Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 85
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EchelonTee
United States5251 Posts
If I can no-vote, then I'll obviously do that. If I can't, then I'll rethink things again in the next phase. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5251 Posts
My vote is cast. I do not lie. I have anticipated the ending. I am wondering who else has. what does this mean? I'm meeting up with my sister at her uni for a while, will not be back until after deadline. GL godspeed | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5251 Posts
I'm guessing you haven't sent in your vote yet MZ? This is pretty much in your hands. If you vote Yes, then sloosh will null vote and he will remain, and if you vote No, I will null vote and I will remain (assuming null votes are allowed, which they probably are). Whoever you think is town, you should vote opposite to you; the game is in your hands. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
If sloosh is telling the truth then you will be the sole survivor. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
And gonzaw as well, both of you guys did phenomenal. Again, my apologies to the town, this loss is completely on me and my hubris. I may read through the thread a do a little writeup on my play and what went wrong where but I don't know if I have the heart. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Harimoto team and my team have been in contact for a long time. Hubris indeed lost this game for town. Syllo's complete trust of Palmar and then town's complete trust in gonzaw and ET even though both were really scummy (especially ET, I called the whole harimoto team out and no one cared). popping popcorn was fun though lol. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 25 2012 12:30 chaoser wrote: Lol. Arrogance ftl. Harimoto team and my team have been in contact for a long time. Hubris indeed lost this game for town. Syllo's complete trust of Palmar and then town's complete trust in gonzaw and ET even though both were really scummy (especially ET, I called the whole harimoto team out and no one cared). popping popcorn was fun though lol. Hey! > : ( lol, hubris indeed. EDIT: Hubris and insane amounts of paranoia, at least in my case | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On May 25 2012 12:30 chaoser wrote: Lol. Arrogance ftl. Harimoto team and my team have been in contact for a long time. Hubris indeed lost this game for town. Syllo's complete trust of Palmar and then town's complete trust in gonzaw and ET even though both were really scummy (especially ET, I called the whole harimoto team out and no one cared). popping popcorn was fun though lol. Yeah given gonzaw's play I think a duel scum victory would be more fair. Did you guys really run out of KP or were gonzaw/ET just so boss they decided to win without it? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
(maybe sloosh and ET voted in such a way that sloosh was in the minority as scum) Also, people just ignore most of the things I'm saying in the scum QT, at least from Night 7 onwards >_> (I was kind of crazy you see, kind of like I was in the Obs QT of LIII) EDIT: Wait....did you 2 REALLY vote both NO? EDIT2: I will also lol if Ver just made a mistake before (in the "Active List of Games thread") and the game actually goes on | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
I'm assuming Ver is ending because I really did vote no, my assumption is that it means sloosh must have as well. Technically the game isn't over because sloosh and I could rig the votes so that only one of us dies but then the other would get killed during the night. Or sloosh really is scum but I highly doubt that. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I thought that was so obvious (telling scum what you will vote in LYLO? Really?) that you were making a hidden scheme to actually vote YES in the end and see who of ET/sloosh lied about their votes. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On May 25 2012 12:48 gonzaw wrote: Ehm...why would a townie immediately vote in LYLO and not wait until the end? What if for instance someone just claimed scum in the thread after you voted? I thought that was so obvious (telling scum what you will vote in LYLO? Really?) that you were making a hidden scheme to actually vote YES in the end and see who of ET/sloosh lied about their votes. I highly doubt someone would have claimed at that point, no reason. Anyway I read some of the thread and the filters several times and came to the conclusion that ET was town and sloosh was scum. I then voted no to put sloosh in the majority which, assuming sloosh told the truth, won the game for ET. And at this point in the game, making a plan and voting yes wouldn't matter because there's no chance to punish the guilty party. Besides, they could have been doing the same thing as I was. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
GG at Ver for putting that pickture of yokoya and harimoto making an alliance after I told him the two teams were working together to take down town lol | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 25 2012 12:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I highly doubt someone would have claimed at that point, no reason. Anyway I read some of the thread and the filters several times and came to the conclusion that ET was town and sloosh was scum. I then voted no to put sloosh in the majority which, assuming sloosh told the truth, won the game for ET. And at this point in the game, making a plan and voting yes wouldn't matter because there's no chance to punish the guilty party. Besides, they could have been doing the same thing as I was. Why the hurry? If you were active right now before the deadline, you could have waited until now to vote. Anything could have happened, maybe you would have an epiphany of who was scum (like you say you actually did). Also, whatever conclusion you arrive to...you don't tell scum what you voted, like you just don't. You just PM your town read and tell him what you'll vote in secret, or better yet just keep it to yourself if you have doubts about it. You do know that saying "I'm voting NO to get sloosh into majority" in the thread could easily get him to vote YES if he was scum right? (you can still lie about saying "I already voted"...I certainly did in this game). EDIT: On May 25 2012 12:54 chaoser wrote: Mafia had only 3 KP per team. We linked up night 3 to make our kills most effective and then both teams saved their last KP for the endgame. GG at Ver for putting that pickture of yokoya and harimoto making an alliance after I told him the two teams were working together to take down town lol I do think scum KP was way too underpowered. Like...at some point there were like 7 or 8 people alive with 3-4 scum alive yet the game ended 5 days later. It just made the game way too long. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
I also agree with your point about KP, with you and ET in the positions you were in, the game was over several days ago (even if I had pulled my head out of my ass and figured things out you two would have still had the thread control to silence me). I just got to know though, was it arranged that one of you would die or did ET stab you in the back? Also Ver just post the final results  | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
However, I didn't shoot because of some reasons:
I thought I would lose no matter what because I was kind of sure the other guy would shoot me, so hey at least town and the other guy could prove who deserved to win most in a 2-1 LYLO rather than us handing town the win in a silver plate. (I was secretly hoping the other guy would be a good sport and not shoot me though >_> ) Although, I certainly did some fucked up things last day which may have convinced ET I was scum >_> My brain farted at that point, I was actually wanting to PM you about some things and instead PMed ET about them, were I basically told him "Hey, I'm Yokoya!" (dunno why, maybe because I just wanted to PM anyone about them >_> ), but you never returned my PMs  EDIT: Not mentioning me fucking up the "plan" thing from Day 8 >_> One of sloosh/Katina/Wiggles were supposed to be Harimoto, which is the only reason I made it in the first place (obviously I fucked that up big time, even if Katina had just followed the plan along it would have been 1-1-1) | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
btw if you had stayed alive I probably would have been willing to lynch sloosh with you and ET which would have made things 1-1-1. I also owe two specific apologies, one is to Bugs for not winning the game when he had almost perfectly set me up, and the other is to Katina for dogging her basically the whole game. While she didn't absolutely destroy the game (which I guess was my expectation after hearing foolishness was teaching her), her reads were certainly better than mine. mkay I'm gonna go play some comfort LoL now to drown out my sorrows... my mafia record is now a gaudy 6-11 | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
EDIT: Also no I checked with Protact and nobody could draw. I guess a mass surrender could have worked though? I dunno | ||
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
![[image loading]](http://upic.me/i/gw/h63bb.jpg) Game Over! EchelonTee and the Harimoto Cult have won! + Show Spoiler [Explanation] + Sloosh and Meapak both voted no. ET voted yes. Thus one of MZ/Sloosh must be lynched, and ET is guaranteed safety. Thus ET will have a 1v1 which means he wins. General Comments and Awards Roles/Actions Observer QT (Not much there) Yokoya QT (too much there) Harimoto QT We wanted this game to be relatively simple outside of the voting mechanics, as everyone would have to be fixated on that. Balance was difficult to determine, even now. I could see arguments for this being imbalanced in favor of one side or the other: the mafia had to dodge an incredible number of lynches for the number of players they had, while the town had no way of obtaining reliable information or keeping important members alive, or even killing known mafia consistently. The dual mafia nature naturally makes it more likely to head towards an even endgame, as one side must always keep the others in check. We expected a lot more mass lynches than actually happened (only two). One of the main goals with the voting mechanics was to make it much harder to run a town circle and to force mafia to play more proactively. We were immensely pleased to see both mafia families taking active roles in infiltration and proactive play. You could really tell the difference: Palmar, ET, and Gonzaw all proved crucial in keeping the town confused and impotent, while the more passive, stereotypical play of Sandro, BC, and Chaoser landed them rather quick and undisputed deaths (though to be fair, Chaoser's partial alliance with Sandro was crucial in keeping both mafia's hopes alive). Just imagine the trouble the town would've had if almost all or all of the mafia had been proactive from the start, if just half of them could generate such results! As Cephiro noted partway through, the more the majority attempted to assert control over the game, the more power that gave minority outsiders (like himself). In effect, this quandary was representative of one of our goals: to limit the power of the "undisputed group's leadership" and force townies (and thus mafia) to actively participate throughout the game. In the end, the attempt of many townies to assert dominant control created a rebellion amongst those excluded, which led to a lot of dead townies and Sandroba getting saved twice. Many will no doubt complain about the attitudes of VE, Cephiro, Sheth, or Katina, but you must keep in mind that they reacted in the way they did because they were definitively placed as the outsider, stuck out of the loop and without power. In such a situation, it is only natural that they may react suboptimally. In a normal game, the undisputed leadership may have been more successful despite the occasional rebel because they would have an easier time enforcing their wills: here, it was much more difficult, and the inability for the town to adapt to this new circumstance really hurt them. There were also a lot of accidents that messed with the ability of the town to figure things out. The vote analysis was a good idea, it was simply unlucky that it was unfruitful as the mafia lucked out with suboptimal moves due to miscommunication. For example: Gonzaw had information that 5 people were going to vote NO the day BC died. However, the latter voted at the very start of the day (when warned not to) and ended up in the majority. This meant that Gonzaw was kept off of suspicion as being Yokoya because it didn't appear that BC got wind of the news. However, it was not worth it to lose a member just for Gonzaw to get that benefit. Optimal mafia play may be easier to figure out at times, but it's optimal for a reason. The Harimoto's all voted YES accidentally, as I believe Sandro (or someone else) missed their plan and voted YES without knowing he was supposed to vote NO. This could have ended up disastrously, but instead it really messed up with town voting analysis. Lastly, ET caught wind of the plan to kill Sandro, Palmar, and Prplhz. However, sandro was afk and Palmar needlessly died. This did keep ET out of suspicion as a Harimoto though. Awards Nao Kanzaki Award for the most trusting, idealistic player: Radfield, for believing that the town could all trust each other and work together! Akiyama Award for the best idea: The plan to act as though Sandroba was to die alone and try for a triple kill of Sandro/Palmar/prplhz. Yokoya Award for the biggest swindle: Gonzaw pushing through his blatantly anti-town plan at the very end. Harimoto Award for the smoothest manipulator: (3 worthy candidates) 1- Palmar, for not only remaining out of suspicion early on, but getting others to attack anyone who threatened him. 2- Gonzaw, for getting everyone to think he was a townie all game long. 3- ET, for lying low in plain sight and making everyone forget about him. Fukunaga Award for most selfish play: Cephiro, for purposely goading people mostly to mess with his 'meta'. Young Jump Award for best Hidden Plan: Chaoser, for engineering the partial alliance with Sandroba that let the mafia sunder the town circle midgame. Muscle award for most jubjub play: VE, for saving sandroba and killing himself simultaneously. Also points go to Cephiro for saving Sandroba as well. Forli award for getting deceived: Syllogism, for loyally supporting Palmar as his mouthpiece nearly the entire game. Akagi award for most loyal minion and bandwagoner: prplhz, for doing exactly that. Player X Award, for most blamed suspect without sufficient reasoning (equivalent to: "he's wearing sunglasses and looks shady!"): Tie between VE, Sheth, Cephiro, and Katina. The Fukunaga vs Nao award for most ridiculous argument: Gonzaw vs Cephiro. It never ended!!! The other Nao Award, for the player that just cannot die: Sandroba without question. Thought to be mafia day 1, survived til day 7 without trying to care in the thread. Longest life span in any game. | ||
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