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On May 02 2012 02:05 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:01 Palmar wrote:
why do you think there are ways of re-entering the game?
also, thanks for making my job of killing you easier by being obvscum By the way, "King". I recommend that you're a bit more careful with your current allies, it seems you are leaking information somewhat easily..
Tell me what information I'm leaking.
I only have one person that actually knows everything I'm thinking/doing, and I have very little information about the game or anything that's happening beyond what I've posted in the thread.
If you're unable to back up the statement that information is leaking from me, you are lying.
Now tell me, what leaked, and who gave you that information.
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VE has left the building guys. I'll be back closer to lynch time.
Peace.
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On May 02 2012 02:12 Palmar wrote:
Tell me what information I'm leaking.
I only have one person that actually knows everything I'm thinking/doing, and I have very little information about the game or anything that's happening beyond what I've posted in the thread.
If you're unable to back up the statement that information is leaking from me, you are lying.
Now tell me, what leaked, and who gave you that information.
You shouldn't trust people too much, this is the Liar Game after all...
I'm perfectly fun with you thinking I am lying. After all, making you obvious to certain things would ruin the fun would it not?
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On May 02 2012 02:12 Palmar wrote:
Tell me what information I'm leaking.
I only have one person that actually knows everything I'm thinking/doing, and I have very little information about the game or anything that's happening beyond what I've posted in the thread.
If you're unable to back up the statement that information is leaking from me, you are lying.
Now tell me, what leaked, and who gave you that information.
You shouldn't trust people too much, this is the Liar Game after all...
I'm perfectly fine
with you thinking I am lying. After all, making you obvious to certain things would ruin the fun would it not?
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EBWOP: Loving my netstick. <3 Mistakenly doubleposted when trying to fix the typo as I wasn't sure if it had sent already.
@ Wiggles: Amusing message by someone that is bickering to others about scumhunting in thread. I see you like gonzaw's mentality, just in a worse manner. Take contact with everyone, but don't even really pressure anyone, unless you can sheep.
You talk a lot, but you make very few main points to go with what you say.
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On May 02 2012 01:19 syllogism wrote:
Katina you seemed worried about King Palmar plan distracting from actual mafia hunting, but you personally have voiced no suspicions at all. Further, do you really think the rather heated discussion that followed produced no useful information at all, especially in terms of connections, or more accurately disconnections? While you unfortunately aren't up for lynch today, I'm very interested in hearing from you too
Yes, how unfortunate for you. Like killing townies eh?
I have been reading and looking at people since it's the beingingish of a new game. Since it's for you I will <3
Palmar: I think he is Mafia because of his so called plan that caused disruption early on in the thread. He hasn't been arond to defend his plan or try to do anything with it. He just kind of disappeared into La La land. His posts now aren't memorable and it doesn't seem like he cares about the town. Regardless Palmar is not in the majority group consequiencly you aren't either so we can talk about that later.
Those who are though that I am suspicious of are:
Radfield: I dont feel like hes helping the town most of his posts have been arguing with others or comparing penis sizes.
EcholenTee: He has been missing for a majority of the game. Last game I was in with him, he was vocal and not MIA for this long.
I would support a Sandroba lynch. I'm not too sure about a VE lynch though.
In the majority list that I think is town would be:
Mr: Wiggles: I don't think he is mafia at the moment. I think he is posting what's on his mind. Even though he was in the idiot trio bullshit crap retarded arguement with Gonzaw and Cephiro.
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On May 02 2012 02:20 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:12 Palmar wrote:
Tell me what information I'm leaking.
I only have one person that actually knows everything I'm thinking/doing, and I have very little information about the game or anything that's happening beyond what I've posted in the thread.
If you're unable to back up the statement that information is leaking from me, you are lying.
Now tell me, what leaked, and who gave you that information. You shouldn't trust people too much, this is the Liar Game after all... I'm perfectly fine with you thinking I am lying. After all, making you obvious to certain things would ruin the fun would it not?
That's not how it works.
You make an inane statement that undermines the work I'm doing, so I demand you say what the fuck you mean by that. I don't trust people too much, if I do, I need to know.
It makes no sense from town perspective to not out whatever information you may have about my strategy and my allies, you're intentionally creating confusion with nothing to back it up.
So no, I want whatever you're implying you know to be obvious, you're not getting away with trolling like that without explaining yourself.
I'm fine with killing you today, and I have the influence to get it done.
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Katina you're being dumb as shit.
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I'm giving my votes to myself. No one else here deserves them.
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On May 02 2012 03:01 Palmar wrote:
That's not how it works.
You make an inane statement that undermines the work I'm doing, so I demand you say what the fuck you mean by that. I don't trust people too much, if I do, I need to know.
It makes no sense from town perspective to not out whatever information you may have about my strategy and my allies, you're intentionally creating confusion with nothing to back it up.
So no, I want whatever you're implying you know to be obvious, you're not getting away with trolling like that without explaining yourself.
I'm fine with killing you today, and I have the influence to get it done.
I have in no way undermined the work you claim you are doing. I just said you might want to be a bit more careful, that's all.
Are you sure you have the influence to get it done? If you want to dig your own grave, go ahead and try. I dare you.
You can be stubborn and think what you want, all I'm saying you should be careful whom you co-operate with. Preferably a bit more than so far.
Also, just to dare you a bit more: Who knows? Maybe I am just testing to see how you react, maybe I am talking all bullshit, or maybe I hold some information that you might not want me to know.
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Apologies for being AWOL; finals are coming up. Please PM me, I'm lonely as hell in PM land.
RE: Why I want to lynch VisceraEyes
The primary reason why I think VisceraEyes is scummy is because he claims to be "scumhunting" but he provides no evidence or reasoning behind his accusations, while simultaneously being completely apathetic to plan discussion.
On April 30 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not I. :d
Well then, let's get started.
As always, I cynically feel like any plan we hope to enact is doomed to fail so let's just vote how we want to vote for round A. We have a number advantage over scum, so voting randomly (according to how we feel) will put town at the advantage imo.
I haven't decided how to use my votes for Phase B yet. I'm still pondering the matter.
VE opens by dismissing any potential plans. If VE had simply disagreed with the plans that had already been put forth, that would be reasonable, but he just ignores them and says that voting randomly would "put town at advantage". How? VE never really gets into this; while it is true that plans could be abused by scum, planning allows town to counteract such abuse by controlling the voting system in a pro-town manner.
VE's apathy contrasts with the last town game he played, where he actively discussed the mechanics of the game to try and decrease the chance for scum abuse, which contradicts him saying "I think any plan is doomed to fail".
On May 01 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Dis voting system.
It doesn't matter who's in the minority. Yeah, it's true a lot of people can die. We can sort that out during the down-sizing phase when we decide who we want to live. LOLOLOLOLOL
Anyone pushing an agenda that involves trying to control the minority phase looks super duper scummy to me right now ^^
Bolded part - extreme apathy to people dying. This is in stark contrast to a particular character trait of VE; he doesn't think townies should just be culled without a care. This stems from his history of being a bad newbie; he usually puts a lot more care in ensuring that only people he really thinks are scum get lynched. This mindset put forth by VE is apathetic to the idea that many people could die, which is utterly strange.
His case on WBG was half-assed, no need to get further into that as others have already said why it's bad.
Says he wants to be king, but doesn't really do anything along with his bold assertion. His plan is "people vote randomly and we will sort it out later". That is the least decisive king I have ever heard off; while it looks like VE is being his usual aggressive self, he's being very wishywashy with plans, which is uncharacteristic.
Finally, and nail in the coffin for myself:
On May 01 2012 08:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
I am actively committed to finding and eliminating scum.
Anything beyond that is malleable.
Says he is actively committed to scumhunting
On May 01 2012 08:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Anyway, right now I'd lynch into wherebugsgo, chaoser, syllogism.
That's my story. I'll provide reasoning if any of these players are in the majority in Phase B.
Wants to lynch these people. says will provide reasoning if any are in the majority.
As it turns out, chaoser is in the majority. Will VE provide reasoning, push him, or do anything pro-town?
On May 02 2012 01:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also for those watching at home, my votes are now also a mystery. Since I'm apparently scum I'm going to act like scum and not share who I'm voting for with town. WAAH WAAH WAAAAAAAAAH!
I am disappoint town. I thought we were going places together. I thought we were going to kill all the scums...together.
Guess not. VE claims to be attacked for his scumhunting efforts, but it's clear that he hasn't been doing any such scumhunting. I'm not usually very confident of D1 reads but this is one of the best ones I've felt in a while, especially considering I've seen VE play a decent amount of games by now. VE is being uncooperative and noncontributing in a very disingenuous way. While VE has rage quit before as town, the manner in which he is doing so, without even putting up information on his lynch of choice and putting down other people at will, seems like a scum VE rage quitting.
If anyone wants to put votes on VE, they better justify themselves/respond to this.
Will provide reasoning to my votes in the next few hours.
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Ladies (don’t think there are any) and Gentleman (not many of those either  ). I proudly present you with a tragedy entitled:
The tale of two prplhz’s.
It was the best of Prplhz, it was the worst of Prplhz… nah screw that I’ll just get right to the good stuff. To start with, I want have a little exercise. I’m going to post three quotes, 1 from prplhz as town, 1 from prplhz as scum, and one from prplhz this game. You’re going to read these match them to the correct game… no cheating!
+ Show Spoiler +On February 22 2012 11:14 prplhz wrote:Okay I don't think that XXX is scum because he's been pretty out there. The scummiest he has done in my opinion is his claim which was oddly timed. Right now he's a terribly easy lynch, because we'll have to lynch him at some point. I'd like to see ZZZ explain how everything XXX has done can be explained by scum motivation and can not be explained by town motivation. The worst thing about this whole XXX thing is that the lynch is so easy that everybody can just pile onto him and then the day is kinda ruined, we aren't going to find anybody else. I don't think that XXX is scum because he's just been putting himself too much in the line of fire. YYY isn't taking AAA accusations seriously (for some reason, nobody is even though AAA is pretty good at mafia). There are more in the accusations than just "YYY doesn't have a read 5 hours in", he is saying that your mindset doesn't seem focused on finding scum. I totally agree with this. He specifically quotes this: Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 12:03 YYY wrote:
[...]
I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better. You see that the discussion is bad, you say that people should try to find whoever is responsible for this, but you never do this. You are the one guilty of strawman arguing when you insinuate that AAA accusation was just based around how you didn't have any reads 5 hours into the game. Additionally there's plenty of bad stuff in your filter. –REDACTED- This post where you complain about what's being discussed without providing anything of an alternative. You were just as guilty in letting the initial discussion get out of hand as those people whose existence you alluded to but never tried to find. I understand that you might not like how XXX was being a douche towards BBB but your comments on that doesn't count as a contribution. You didn't post a single read this entire game, and I don't care if anything is 5 hours into the game or whatever, reads are what push this game foward, AMIRITE? So, YYY, is XXX scum or is he just best lynch because of the situation he's gotten himself in? Do you have other scum reads? I'll vote XXX to avoid no lynch. I kinda assume that this is an extended majority lynch where we can end up in a no lynch sitaution, but the OP doesn't really say anything about that. But like, XXX probably isn't scum, come on. There's also plenty good in having him around since scum can't role block anybody else no matter XXX alignment. The lynch today comes down to "We very likely have to lynch XXX at some point, should it be today or do we have something better?". Right now, I think it's too early to say. On October 14 2011 22:20 prplhz wrote:
you know while the mayor needs to be someone town, the pardoner is going to be held very accountable. we should lynch the pardoner the second he doesn't do exactly what we tell him to so i think pardoner needs to be expendable.
also i think we need to narrow down the field of candidates so people should keep pushing for their candidacy or they should drop out.
to all of the candidates that aren't XXX, (YYY,ZZZ,AAA,BBB,CCC,DDD,sorryifi'mforgettinganybody) who would you like to see as pardoner if you win the election? On May 01 2012 05:13 prplhz wrote:
If there's no plan then it's probably going to be 2-4 scum in the majority. If there is a vigilante of sort or other similar role then we can use that to kill of bad guys in the minority.
Since it looks like people don't like round A plans then how about round B plans? I think it was XXX who said "X votes X+1" and then the minority votes for the townier people. Bad thing is that we don't get majority to vote on anything so no information, and if we just flip coins for round A then people never get to put their money where their mouth is. I'm still for the YYYZZZAAA-plan (wazzup) where those three just decide whatever and put 6-7 townies in the minority. If we're dissatisfied with their picks then we can just replace some of them tomorrow. Just because we ditched the claim idea doesn't mean we have to ditch everything that any of those said.
I redacted all the names so that you’d focus on the content. What does prplhz do as town? He’s aggressive, he scum hunts and calls people out. What does prplhz do as scum? He sits back and discusses the setup? What’s prplhz done this game? Well that’s the topic of the little post.
Now of course you all are screaming OBJECTION! Meapak wtf are you thinking, meta is good to establish a suspicion but you can’t hang someone for it.
I absolutely agree, which is why we’re going to have a closer look at prplhz’s other posts this game.
First let’s take a look at the General Guide to Mafia and see what it has to say about scumplay
A. Survival
1. Hiding/Blending in
2. Posting long but contentless posts
3. Lurking
4. Indecision
5. Not wanting to point fingers
6. Avoiding responsibility
7. Apathy about who is lynched*
So let’s take this one at a time. Here are some hiding/blending in posts: + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 20:22 prplhz wrote:
Also: How I plan to be active in PMs this game.
If I end up in majority I plan on pleading my innocence to a bunch of people in PMs. Other than that I'm probably going to play the most of this game in the thread. On May 01 2012 04:59 prplhz wrote:
I was just reading up on this game and then I thought to myself "Man, I wish I was observing this game." and then I was like "Hey, I am observing this game!" ... dunno I caught and bug and I'm a little ill these days.
I'm not entirely sure what to think of anything yet, I like the 72 hour day proposal 'cause this is going fast.
@wherebugsgo What do you mean "the groups with the power to influence who get into the minority are scum, not town." ? On May 01 2012 08:08 prplhz wrote:
I don't know who is lamer, the DotA2 king of the WoW king ...
Now here is a long but contentless post: + Show Spoiler + On April 30 2012 20:02 prplhz wrote:
I hope this doesn't end in Ace being shot again.
We don't know how many (or even if) we have a vigilante, scum who want to avoid lynch will have like a ~40% chance each day of avoiding the lynch, and they don't even need their scumbuddies' help for this! If we go through with the pardon plan for days then they will even get 100% chance of avoiding lynch and we will need vigilantes to take care of them so potential vigilantes should not use their shot to enforce plans.
I imagine that there are roles more related to the central game mechanic, maybe M/M inverters or people who can throw other people from one pool to the other, maybe some hidden votes for round B.
I thought about how the vote trading panned out in Hammer Mini Mafia (for those who haven't read, everybody had 5 votes and we had to give some away to other people every night). In that game people might not give votes to the most townie player just because "he would already get a bunch" and then he would end up with none. Also, I think charismatic people might get relatively many votes compared to how "townie" they really appear but we still don't want people like me to die just because no one thought to trade me (goes for other people too).
I'm unsure about what to think about big round B plans, I'm always worried about what powers scum may have and I think that just relying on people to do their best should suffice (at least in this game with this infinitely stacked player list). What I'm going to do is that I'm going to split my votes up and throw a bunch of them into people I think other people are likely to vote for, and throw some of them into people I think other people are more unlikely to vote for. If everybody else does this then we're not going to have any problems (and we're going to have a lot of information this way) but if only I do it then there's not really much harm in that anyway.
I think it was gonzaw/syllogism who proposed that round B should be an unofficial vote and then we try to kill the "winner" of that vote, but I don't know about that. This is a game about finding townies and if we all agree that someone is scum then we're not going to need a huge plan for getting him lynched, people are just not going to vote for him or they're going to get into trouble. I have never seen an unofficial voting system in action either, at least not one that worked.
It seems that there is already a big plan in place for round A and it's kinda alright with me, syllogism and Palmar have good reads on each other so I'm going to go along with whatever they feel like for now.
For lurking I’ll point out that prplhz has 14 since the game started.
For 4, 5, and 6 I’ll post a couple that have all three of these: + Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 07:56 prplhz wrote:
I'm very unsure about what's going on and why we're not going with the Palmogisfield-plan. Most of this has just been people not wanting to cooperate and I'm very unsure why. I'm pretty sure we could find a couple people that most everybody wouldn't vote for day1 and it only makes sense to throw them into the minority for more information (and hopefully better odds) in round B.
Ace is doing his usual and very useless "you can't have any reads on day1" thing. Then he's like "I'm just going to be an asshole no matter what you do" which is equally useless. All Ace can do day1 is yell at other people for having bad reads.
I kinda like Mr. Wiggles but I don't exactly know why. I also like Foolishness and Palmogisfield. I don't have any scum reads.
I feel like you're all speaking in russian. I'm looking forward to round B because then I'll have five votes like the rest of you that I can use however I want.
Dunno. On May 01 2012 08:07 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:05 Cephiro wrote:On May 01 2012 08:01 prplhz wrote:
Ace likes the hypothetical "what if everybody is an asshole?", well then this game is lost already now isn't it? Please don't tell me you're saying you don't know how to make reads on assholes? :p I don't but that was not what I meant. If everybody just do something semi-random all game long then we're not going to win because we can't organize anything while scum will be able to perfectly organize themselves. If people stopped doing semi-random stuff and for the most did what appeared to be the most townie thing then we'd be running with the Palmogisfield plan right now. Meh, it's useless since round B is coming up soon.
It’s somewhat difficult to prove the last one since prplhz has decided not to grace us with his presence for the lynch discussion.
For a tl;dr, I will say this. Prplhz has been apathetic to the extreme. He’s avoided making any real statements and when he has, he’s qualified them with his own indecision. He’s playing a game that’s a far cry from what I’ve seen town prplhz do. He has exhibited basically a textbook example of what scum look like, and since I know what he’s capable of, he’s not getting off the hook with the noob excuse anymore. Anyone who puts votes on prplhz is gonna face my wrath.
For those who are curious, here's town prplhz http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=126438
And here's scum prplhz: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269956&user=126438
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I realize I didn't really make that last post very noticeable for the jubjubs so I'll add this.
HEY EVERYONE READ THE POST ABOVE THIS!
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There are so many egos and players who are incapable of cooperating with anyone even when they are town, so it's going to be pretty much impossible to lynch multiple players today except by sheer luck.
Sandroba didn't even bother defending himself today when I PMed and told him that I believe he is mafia and everything about his play suggests this is the apathetic mafia Sandroba. He seemed quite interested in the game before it started as we discussed the setup quite extensively. I suppose it is possible that he really has just been busy due to brazilian holidays, but it's not just his activity I've a problem with, but also his tone. Even when he has been here, he hasn't been interested in talking with me, which is pretty much the opposite of what he does as town. And I'm sure he knows by now that I'm town.
So since we can likely only kill one today, he should definitely be it as things stand.
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As a clarification, Round B has not been extended and will remain at 24 hours.
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On May 02 2012 04:26 syllogism wrote:
There are so many egos and players who are incapable of cooperating with anyone even when they are town, so it's going to be pretty much impossible to lynch multiple players today except by sheer luck.
Sandroba didn't even bother defending himself today when I PMed and told him that I believe he is mafia and everything about his play suggests this is the apathetic mafia Sandroba. He seemed quite interested in the game before it started as we discussed the setup quite extensively. I suppose it is possible that he really has just been busy due to brazilian holidays, but it's not just his activity I've a problem with, but also his tone. Even when he has been here, he hasn't been interested in talking with me, which is pretty much the opposite of what he does as town. And I'm sure he knows by now that I'm town.
So since we can likely only kill one today, he should definitely be it as things stand.
Well I'm certainly not putting any votes on sandroba. I'd encourage everyone else to join me. Also people need to stop putting votes on prplhz.
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hey guys if i need to vote according to some plan then you need to tell me i've been otherwise occupied for the entire day and i don't have the energy to read up on plans. this will of course change soon but if i'm part of some plan then you need to pm me or i will throw my votes around at people i think are town.
please pm me soon because i think i'm about to pass out.
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okay meapak is lynching me, well i don't really have anything i can do about that right now. i think i'm the player who has clearly played the worst so far (and i'm not even up to date on the thread) so that should kinda give you an idea about my alignment. there's really nothing else.
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ah, storm mafia, where wherebugsgo just randomly pointed at me 10 minutes before deadline and then i died. yea i was on top of my game back then.
fun fact: this is the 16th game in a row that i have been town. last game i was scum was in XLVII when i requested it. not counting requests (requested town in election mafia too i think) then i'm on like a 20 game town streak. beat that. always town never not town QED.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/roll.gif)
