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On May 03 2012 07:43 Clawtrocity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:34 Gummy wrote:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING "too scummy to be scum."
APPEARING SCUMMY ONLY GETS YOU TARGETED IN DAY PLAY. YOU GET NO ADVANTAGE FOR APPEARING SCUMMY EVER. By drawing attention in the daychat I'm being pressured into being lynched. That means killing me at night is stupid because I'll be killed during the day time. It's just as simple as not lynching people who act scummy on purpose and you succeed. No offense to you, but I do hope you're the one that gets shot because you're not the real medic so losing a vanilla townie isn't so bad. I have to heal Tofu just in case they try to pull any fishy things where they think I'm trying to make them target you so I can heal you at night. You're almost having a panic attack in the middle of the day just because people don't see something the way you see it. Calm down and look at the situation with open eyes.
Look at this guy changing his story again... He keeps further incriminating himself.
AND WHY YOU NO UNDERSTAND MATHS?!?!?!??!!
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On May 03 2012 07:49 Clawtrocity wrote:
Just out of curiosity Gummy, have you played SC2 Mafia?
The strategy you're employing works perfectly there. The one where you just spam your opinion until everyone follows your word.
You don't address any points. You misapply randomly taken names of logical fallacies you ripped from wikipedia. Then you change your story. Then you say something nonsensical. Then people defend you for being TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM. Then you change your story again.
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On May 03 2012 07:43 Clawtrocity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:34 Gummy wrote:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING "too scummy to be scum."
APPEARING SCUMMY ONLY GETS YOU TARGETED IN DAY PLAY. YOU GET NO ADVANTAGE FOR APPEARING SCUMMY EVER. By drawing attention in the daychat I'm being pressured into being lynched. That means killing me at night is stupid because I'll be killed during the day time. It's just as simple as not lynching people who act scummy on purpose and you succeed. No offense to you, but I do hope you're the one that gets shot because you're not the real medic so losing a vanilla townie isn't so bad. I have to heal Tofu just in case they try to pull any fishy things where they think I'm trying to make them target you so I can heal you at night. You're almost having a panic attack in the middle of the day just because people don't see something the way you see it. Calm down and look at the situation with open eyes.
Pick any proposed equilibrium path of beliefs. Say that the mafia believe that the townspeople believe that you are too scummy to be scum. You will still get targeted at night.
Say that the mafia believe that the townspeople believe that you are not too scummy to be scum. You will still get targeted at night.
No equilibrium path of beliefs leads "too scummy to be scum" to be a valid strategy. I don't know why I even need to explain this.
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On May 03 2012 07:43 paschl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:39 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 07:37 paschl wrote:
Yes, there definitively is.
Im not saying he cant be a mafia because he wrote it but who do you think is more afraid to cop hunt itt?
A mafia actually posting a phrase like that is so mindboggling i cant see it happen except in the rarest of cases. So you're saying that you can trick the detective into wasting a turn on you by pretending to be scum. This helps the town how? Youre not getting what i mean by too scumy to be scum. We have this thing on our forum where outed scum post lolcats when theyre getting lynched as to give nothing away. Its a tradition in the forum. Now someone goes ahead and makes his first post of the game a lolcat. What scum would ever do that? So you could assume he is a towny because a towny is more likely to just go ahead and post it. Similarly ive seen scum post screenshots of something with a seemingly random aim window called "scumchat" open.
You are appealing to an arbitrary psychological conjecture based on anecdotal evidence of people uniformly playing suboptimally. What are you trying to argue. That he is not scum, but that he is trolling?
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On May 03 2012 07:54 dahdum wrote:
I too suspect Claw, but I don't think we gain enough information from a lynch to overcome the chance he's Town. If we gain no matter what he reveals, I can see it being worthwhile.
What do we gain by lynching claw now?
a) Claw reveals Medic: We lose a medic.
b) Claw reveals Scum: Win.
c) Claw reveals VT: Gummy is medic, mafia very likely kills him.
2 of those scenarios are very bad for us, and I don't think we should take the risk.
You are giving each of these scenarios equal weight as though you just appeared in this thread and haven't read anything Claw has posted... or any of my previous 5 posts. b.) is Much more likely than the other two. and a.) is an epsilon probability.
You are also overstating the marginal impact of case c.) .
I am dead anyway tonight. The Mafia would be insane not to kill me regardless of Claw's status.
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On May 03 2012 07:57 Ange777 wrote:
I still don't understand. Voting no lynch will leave us in almost the same situation on day 2 as now, only difference is we will know one colour but are down one townie. I fear that this won't be sufficient to rule scum out on day 2 as well.
That one color won't be of any use since the Mafia won't kill themselves.
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On May 03 2012 08:01 paschl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:55 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 07:43 paschl wrote:On May 03 2012 07:39 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 07:37 paschl wrote:
Yes, there definitively is.
Im not saying he cant be a mafia because he wrote it but who do you think is more afraid to cop hunt itt?
A mafia actually posting a phrase like that is so mindboggling i cant see it happen except in the rarest of cases. So you're saying that you can trick the detective into wasting a turn on you by pretending to be scum. This helps the town how? Youre not getting what i mean by too scumy to be scum. We have this thing on our forum where outed scum post lolcats when theyre getting lynched as to give nothing away. Its a tradition in the forum. Now someone goes ahead and makes his first post of the game a lolcat. What scum would ever do that? So you could assume he is a towny because a towny is more likely to just go ahead and post it. Similarly ive seen scum post screenshots of something with a seemingly random aim window called "scumchat" open. You are appealing to an arbitrary psychological conjecture based on anecdotal evidence of people uniformly playing suboptimally. What are you trying to argue. That he is not scum, but that he is trolling? You could also call it experience but ok. And i said it before, he could be a towny just trying to take a bullet for a blue role. I said before that its an easy play for scum but the mafia doesnt know the roles either. So its not a bad play for a towny to claim medic on day1 in this setup. Especially since theyre not gonna find the detective on n1 (ok the could randomly hit him). Again, how many actual games of werewolf have you played before?
So now you don't think he's too scummy to be scum.
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On May 03 2012 08:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:57 Ange777 wrote:
I still don't understand. Voting no lynch will leave us in almost the same situation on day 2 as now, only difference is we will know one colour but are down one townie. I fear that this won't be sufficient to rule scum out on day 2 as well.
This. All I see with Gummy is a guy who thinks he is better than everyone else here and thinks he has the game figured out. He wants everyone to see how right he is, so he is pushing Claw with a single-minded focus with utter disregard for any legitimate strategy. I am not one who will vote with someone who allows his emotions to sway his decisions. As you can see with all his bolded posts, he is simply spewing rhetoric and nonsensical arguments to get people to listen to him at this point. As I mentioned earlier, we should adopt a strict policy of ignoring Gummy until he gets his emotions in check.
Quote the nonsense please. Just because something is in all caps and bold doesn't make it nonsense. I get the feeling that at least 4 of our players aren't reading.
YOU GUYS COME ON BOLDED CAPITALIZED TEXT WITH THE TONE OF ANGER IS EASIER TO PICK OUT of a wall of text.
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On May 03 2012 08:04 paschl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:02 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 08:01 paschl wrote:On May 03 2012 07:55 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 07:43 paschl wrote:On May 03 2012 07:39 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 07:37 paschl wrote:
Yes, there definitively is.
Im not saying he cant be a mafia because he wrote it but who do you think is more afraid to cop hunt itt?
A mafia actually posting a phrase like that is so mindboggling i cant see it happen except in the rarest of cases. So you're saying that you can trick the detective into wasting a turn on you by pretending to be scum. This helps the town how? Youre not getting what i mean by too scumy to be scum. We have this thing on our forum where outed scum post lolcats when theyre getting lynched as to give nothing away. Its a tradition in the forum. Now someone goes ahead and makes his first post of the game a lolcat. What scum would ever do that? So you could assume he is a towny because a towny is more likely to just go ahead and post it. Similarly ive seen scum post screenshots of something with a seemingly random aim window called "scumchat" open. You are appealing to an arbitrary psychological conjecture based on anecdotal evidence of people uniformly playing suboptimally. What are you trying to argue. That he is not scum, but that he is trolling? You could also call it experience but ok. And i said it before, he could be a towny just trying to take a bullet for a blue role. I said before that its an easy play for scum but the mafia doesnt know the roles either. So its not a bad play for a towny to claim medic on day1 in this setup. Especially since theyre not gonna find the detective on n1 (ok the could randomly hit him). Again, how many actual games of werewolf have you played before? So now you don't think he's too scummy to be scum. wat?
You're not acknowledging or rebutting my claims. You are making an orthogonal claim that you are experienced and that you have experienced such play. Is it really too hard to say something like "link me to a source" or "I don't follow your logic, could you try to explain in a way that uses less jargon?" I'm a random person on the internet with extensive training in game theory. You don't have to "win" an argument with me.
I am a townie and I want to win. You can "win" your argument with me by changing your vote to Claw.
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On May 03 2012 08:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 07:57 Ange777 wrote:
I still don't understand. Voting no lynch will leave us in almost the same situation on day 2 as now, only difference is we will know one colour but are down one townie. I fear that this won't be sufficient to rule scum out on day 2 as well.
This. All I see with Gummy is a guy who thinks he is better than everyone else here and thinks he has the game figured out. He wants everyone to see how right he is, so he is pushing Claw with a single-minded focus with utter disregard for any legitimate strategy. I am not one who will vote with someone who allows his emotions to sway his decisions. As you can see with all his bolded posts, he is simply spewing rhetoric and nonsensical arguments to get people to listen to him at this point. As I mentioned earlier, we should adopt a strict policy of ignoring Gummy until he gets his emotions in check.
You say "This." yet you seem to entirely disagree with the text you quoted. This makes me doubt your reading comprehension abilities or your allegiance.
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On May 03 2012 08:09 Clawtrocity wrote:Freudian Slip. I knew you weren't a medic.
That doesn't even make sense. I've used that phrase multiple times before. I make sure to prefix the word "townie" with the modifier "Vanilla" for disambiguation.
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Just for evidence, here's a link to my word choice.
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On May 03 2012 08:11 Gummy wrote:Just for evidence, here's a link to my word choice.
ctrl-f "townie"
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On May 03 2012 08:12 paschl wrote:
Dude i study computer science, ive posted on english messaged boards for the better part of 13 years.
I understand your theory i just dont think its applicable in a game with this much imperfect information.
You just answered my post by turning words i never used around to jump at me.
You're still making irrelevant points. I'm glad you've posted on "english messaged boards" for the better part of 13 years. If you understood my theory you would know that it was particularly devised specifically for dynamic games of imperfect information. And game theory and computer science have intersections in incentive compatibility and mechanism design, but not much else. I know because I double major in these two fields.
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45 minutes to change your votes or you will be a medic down, none the wiser and onto day 2.
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On May 03 2012 08:14 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:12 paschl wrote:
Dude i study computer science, ive posted on english messaged boards for the better part of 13 years.
I understand your theory i just dont think its applicable in a game with this much imperfect information.
You just answered my post by turning words i never used around to jump at me. You're still making irrelevant points. I'm glad you've posted on "english messaged boards" for the better part of 13 years. If you understood my theory you would know that it was particularly devised specifically for dynamic games of imperfect information. And game theory and computer science have intersections in incentive compatibility and mechanism design, but not much else. I know because I double major in these two fields.
See link if you are interested in learning more.
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On May 03 2012 08:23 paschl wrote:
##VOTE: Gummy
pure spitevote.
id rather kill the medic than go on and play day2 with an obnoxiously arogant, self centered game theory whiz who thinks he is a genius.
That's grounds for a modkill, correct?
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On May 03 2012 08:26 paschl wrote:
god i hope so.
If you're going to vote for me, then do so not out of spite and make up a reason. People call me childish, but at every point in the game my actions have been consistent with the objective of the town's eventual victory. Don't blatantly make a vote for me and then admit to it being out of spite.
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On May 03 2012 08:27 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:On May 03 2012 08:09 Gummy wrote:On May 03 2012 08:02 FirmTofu wrote:On May 03 2012 07:57 Ange777 wrote:
I still don't understand. Voting no lynch will leave us in almost the same situation on day 2 as now, only difference is we will know one colour but are down one townie. I fear that this won't be sufficient to rule scum out on day 2 as well.
This. All I see with Gummy is a guy who thinks he is better than everyone else here and thinks he has the game figured out. He wants everyone to see how right he is, so he is pushing Claw with a single-minded focus with utter disregard for any legitimate strategy. I am not one who will vote with someone who allows his emotions to sway his decisions. As you can see with all his bolded posts, he is simply spewing rhetoric and nonsensical arguments to get people to listen to him at this point. As I mentioned earlier, we should adopt a strict policy of ignoring Gummy until he gets his emotions in check. You say "This." yet you seem to entirely disagree with the text you quoted. This makes me doubt your reading comprehension abilities or your allegiance. I should have explained my position on his quote in detail. I agreed with the facts, but not the eventual conclusion drawn from it(whether it was good or bad). I think it's better to Let one townie die at night, then to be lynching one AND letting one die. 1 townie dead is better than 2 townies dead. Pretty simple concept. Now you may argue that we will get some information about me and you if we lynch Claw, but I disagree. We still haven't had a night with night actions yet, so we don't have any contradictory claims. No matter what Claw flips, our claims are still independent of his. If you think double medic is somehow less likely than any other combination of blue roles, that is your prerogative. I will not jump to that conclusion. Therefore, Claw is not an information lynch and we will not be better off lynching him unless he is scum. Evidence for Claw being scum:-Gummy counter-claims medic after Claw claims it. -Gummy thinks Claw is scum. -Gummy has used careful and stepwise game theoretic logic that you can freely examine to further the claim that Claw's play is not consistent with any townie objective. Evidence for Claw being vanilla townie:-Claw is a troll. Evidence for Claw being medic:-Claw claimed medic. Conclusion:We don't actually know anything and anyone who says he has the game figured out at this point is dead-wrong. FIXED!
None of your evidence includes any of my painstakingly crafted game theoretic models.
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I should have explained my position on his quote in detail. I agreed with the facts, but not the eventual conclusion drawn from it(whether it was good or bad). I think it's better to Let one townie die at night, then to be lynching one AND letting one die.
1 townie dead is better than 2 townies dead. Pretty simple concept.
Now you may argue that we will get some information about me and you if we lynch Claw, but I disagree. We still haven't had a night with night actions yet, so we don't have any contradictory claims.
No matter what Claw flips, our claims are still independent of his. If you think double medic is somehow less likely than any other combination of blue roles, that is your prerogative. I will not jump to that conclusion. Therefore, Claw is not an information lynch and we will not be better off lynching him unless he is scum.
Evidence for Claw being scum:
-Gummy counter-claims medic after Claw claims it.
-Gummy thinks Claw is scum.
-Gummy has used careful and stepwise game theoretic logic that you can freely examine to further the claim that Claw's play is not consistent with any townie objective.
Evidence for Claw being vanilla townie:
-Claw is a troll.
Evidence for Claw being medic:
-Claw claimed medic.
Conclusion:
We don't actually know anything and anyone who says he has the game figured out at this point is dead-wrong.
Oops. Reposting previous post without spoilers so you can see my asinine insertion.
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EPT
