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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I will try to share my important reads and i will respond to the case that Paqman has made. (you should be able to spot the errors if you try to look at it objectively.) You have no idea how pissed off i am that i choose BM as the policy lynch or that i complained about players not putting in effort, or that i said we shouldn't lynch katina or that the case i pushed Johnnywub and blubb given what has happened. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 09 2012 07:00 papapanda wrote: BH, I have made cases before against both marvellosity and layabout. For marvellosity, he hasn't been making further actions that link him to scum except his mention of Kepachi (dismiss-able) and maybe his hard defense for layabout (who is scum IMO). That said, layabout is the better lynch option because of his support of katina, kenpachi(kinda), and just his general lynch the easy guy attitude. Wish he would actually defend himself instead of telling me to go read the thread:< Your question was asking me to explain a post that i had already explained in another post after somebody else asked me to explain it. Of course i told you to go read the thread. You "question": http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14614175 "..layabout your defense is saying katina was talking sense.... Please further clarify your defense for me." From my posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14591880 Katina has made posts indicative of intelligence. I do not think we should lynch katina. psst, Paq! look up How is " i think that a player is intelligent i don't think we should lynch them" a hard defence? Does giving evidence as to why you think they are intelligent when asked and then saying that you felt something they did something scummy constitute a hard defence? On May 06 2012 00:52 layabout wrote: discussion of katina: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14591170 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14591786 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14591832 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14592117 My post doesn't say why i thought she was town in fact i just wanted to say that her posts made sense and i didn't want to kill somebody that was making sense when there were so many players that weren't making sense or even playing the game. The "defence" was literally: "I think this person is intelligent, let's not kill them day1" there was some evidence too as i was asked for it | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 09 2012 08:22 PaqMan wrote: ebwop: throw in the fact that you were hard-defending your scumbuddy KP. Which is weird because the same reasons that you wanted BM lynched could have been applied to KP. Hence the "for fuck sake". | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:50 grush57 wrote: I don't think we should lynch katina or layabout or whoever posted the last couple pages with actual discussion. I say we either go for Bill Murray because he is lurking(though he may be inactive and will get modkilled) and he is Bill Murray, oar we go for sinai206 because of this: Uhh what? Also, I asked his thoughts on BH to which he never responded to. ##vote sinani206 He doesn't want to lynch me or katina because of posting with actual discussion. His defense of Katina in that one line amounts to about the same as my supposed "defence" but with less detail. On May 05 2012 05:51 grush57 wrote: Actually I agree layabout, I'll go BillMurray. He changes his vote because of my posts. On May 07 2012 02:00 grush57 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2012 00:22 ghost_403 wrote: I swear to God I'm not dead. Pretty close though. Linear algebra (the real stuff, not that stupid matrix multiplication stuff they teach you in grade school) is the most amazing and difficult subject I've ever studied. It's kicking my ass at the moment. Catching up on the thread, brb. How convenient you were done studying just after you got pressured. On May 07 2012 01:08 ghost_403 wrote: Alright! All caught up. @BH: My cat was probably not on fire. If he was, I wouldn't know. Gave him to my old roommate, and he moved to California. Hope the cat's okay. I'd better check. That said, you were completely right, being gone like this is against my meta, and I wouldn't blame you for shooting me tonight. I hope to convince you otherwise by actually being useful to the town. I'll make you a deal: I'll help you find the three scum in the game, then you can shoot me. Sound good? @somethingawesome: It's very strange that you ask me to make a case on Kenpachi. He's been flying under the radar for quite some time now, why did you bring it up out of the blue? To actually answer your question, this post is the only post of his I've read in this game that doesn't sound 100% kenpachi. I'm not sure what to make of it quite yet. That's not enough for me to think he's scum, but it's enough for me to keep an eye on him for a while. As far as the marv, layabout, NT scum team? Marv probably rolled scum. In my notes on him, I have that the first thing he did this game was push a BM policy lynch. As much as I dislike paying with BM (sorry bro), I despise policy lynching insane players. See any game I've been in. Pushing a policy lynch on someone like him is an excuse not to scum hunt, and he goes on my naughty list. In addition to that, he pushed a case on l10f based on two posts. Seriously? He's not here, that doesn't make him scum. Most of the argument against layabout comes from his "hard defense" of Katina. That's not a hard defense at all. Saying a rather good player is moderately intelligent and shouldn't be lynch so early in the game is just good play. Nova_Tera reacted rather poorly to kenpachi's case against him, which struck me as scummy. Not enough to lynch him quite yet, but eough that I would keep my eye on him. Of the three, I would most like to lynch Marv. Gold star to JDub for being the first person to call me out for not posting here in two or three days. Another person I find scummy is grush, who claimed that he called out Katina and Sinani for being scum during day 1. Postmortem bus? Wut? Also, fuck you, Panera Bread. I want more than 30 minutes of internet during my lunch. + Show Spoiler + Turkey sandwich and french onion soup today, very tasty. Okay first off, you blame marvellosity(the player I think is the least likely scum of those 3) for policy lynching. Layabout STARTED the policy lynch after saying policy lynches are bad to save his scum buddy katina(who he defended hard), which would of all worked out if katina didn't get modkiled. Yeah I did claim both of them day 1 it wasn't post day1, however Katina was just a random vote but sinani206 was legit. I do see how you want to lynch the person who claimed both of his buddies. So the 3 remaining scum are: Layabout ghost_403 ??? grush abandons his scum reads on hops onto blubb after i had posted my case and voted. even though i am his (top or second top?) scumread. How do i become his scumread? By starting the BM lynch (which he supported), by defending Katina (like he did) and.... well that's all he has to say on the matter. On May 08 2012 04:04 grush57 wrote: Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with blubb over nova, nova seems more like a bad town than scum much more than blubb.(Did that make sense?) Plus, blubb has a good case against him, the only good case so far in the whole game yet. ##vote: Blubbdavid ghost (his other scumread) later puts his vote on blubb. Judging by this post + Show Spoiler + On May 08 2012 05:01 grush57 wrote: LOL I expained more why I voted for blubb then you buddy. Though it must suck to vote off another of your kind hmm? grush is telling us that he thinks that this is a bus from both of his scumreads. In that situation there would be almost no need to bus because before my vote Nova_Terra was still be lynched and ghosts vote ensured the lynch would be on blubb. If grush is being honest with us about his reads then Grush's vote on blubb makes next to no sense. He opportunistically followed his scumread onto a late wagon and remained on it when his other scumread joined it. I will also point out that that is almost the entirity of the content he has provided in the last 5 days. Except that he thinks that layabout, ghost, Nova and papaganda are the 4/2 scum left. + Show Spoiler + On May 08 2012 06:47 grush57 wrote: However seeing I have mystical powers calling these things, I'm gonna go ahead and say layabout, ghost 403 are definite scum. On May 08 2012 06:57 grush57 wrote: Oh and probably papapanda too. On May 09 2012 04:40 grush57 wrote: Why you aren't you scum? Don't you like easy lynches? + Show Spoiler + apparently i have not been taking stances. So i going to round up this post by foolishly asserting that he is definitely scum and i am going to add red bold text so that you all know how serious i am | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
so my scumteam is in here: grush57 l10f Eiii papapanda | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Are you saying that papaganda is town now? + Show Spoiler + i will give you a hint, it contains living players because the scum that we are looking for are still alive | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + That's right! It's papapanda! + Show Spoiler + Sorry  | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
point#1 is not reasonable. It appears to me that you have expectations of me that you clearly do not have of others and that those expectations are not realistic ones. From the comments you make they would appear to be along these lines: 1. That a player should be voicing suspicions against a player for quite a period of time before posting a case and then voting. 2. That a player should be voicing all of the suspicions that they have I do not share all of my thoughts and suspicions with the thread. No one should. It results in too many cases being pushed, too many flimsy arguments being agonised over, and too many important points being missed. It would lead to chaos. Instead it is best to focus on a few players and have everyone talk about them. It helps to keep discussion relevant. And so i believe that the best thing to do as a townie is to focus on pushing one or maybe two players depending on your level of certainty. On day2 we knew that 3/18 players were mafia. I had 8 players that i felt were town. Of the remaining 12 i disregarded the players that i felt i couldn't read (kenpachi, ghost) and went from there. To me the scummiest of the remaining players were Johnnywub and Blubbdavid. So I am not sure what this is. It's sort of what i thought before posting, hopefully it will help you to understand my point of veiw. + Show Spoiler + You accuse me of jumping on blubb having not voiced suspicious of him. let's add some context: the vast majority of my posts occur in the evening for me and will nearly all lie in an 8 hour timeslot. So early day1 i felt was largely wasted and i was not enjoying going through lot's of posts about nothing. I returned to a divided and leaderless thread with what i viewed as a very small chance of lynching scum. So i tried to make the best of the situation and lynch BM (a lurker). I offered my opinion on what was being discussed. I began my posting on day 2 (not including the hurried message in the early hours of the morning) by addressing the points raised against me. Whilst reading through them i looked over a number of players including blubbdavid. Almost immediately after i posted my defence SA asked me for my thoughts on blubb so i shared what i was suspicious of. I do not explicitly say "this is scummy" but i do highlight things that are. After i seeing people cite reasons that i had already responded to and ask questions that were already answered and deliberately miss the point i grew frustrated. Angry, even. I looked at filters and what did i find? A bunch of inactives! Scoundrels that signed up and didn't really intend to play. People who offered little. People who offer almost nothing. People that are hard to analyse. But i made my scumreads. Johnnywub who was uncharacteristically watching the thread like a hawk but staying silent. And Blubbdavid who voted with questionable motivations. So after responding to the points raised against me i wrote up what i had on Johnnywub and went to sleep. I woke up to find that the thread had moved at a snails pace, Johnnywub had no votes and DoYouHas had a case on Blubb, the main point of which was that blubb was posting as if he knew that i was town. This i something that i had wondered at and questioned in thread having looked at another of blubb's posts. I think my point here is that i made the decisions to defend myself and to push my reads. I did not do so agressively but i tried to be objective. You are unfair to say that i say nothing at all or that i take no stance whatsoever. I actually say a hell of a lot more than other people have done before i place my vote (find your own examples) point 2 p1 well i wanted to kill him initially because his posts were spammy. After not much time i concluded that SA was town and i stopped talking about SA since there was nothing to say. p2 you retract. point 3 I feel that that post paints Johhny in a pretty damning light, and that his response to it painted him in a worse light. Maybe i should have added a vote or written that he is scum a few times for emphasis. I judged that my vote was likely to put a lot of people off of voting for Johnnywub, but that my analysis without a vote might be looked at a little more objectively. I also don't like voting halfway through the day but i prefer to vote towards the end when then has been more information available to aid my decision. point 4 kenpachi is pretty unreadable. Either you kill him of early, hope a vig shoots him or lynch him if you are sure that everyone else is town. He has a very anti-town playstyle. But lynching him is basically saying "i don't have any scumreads let's just kill this guy cus he is anti town. It's okay on day1 if your desperate. But past that you shouldn't be lynching him and pushing him over players that look scummy is somewhere between bad and anti-town since it is avoiding scumhunting. I would always call somebody out for a throwaway vote like that. point 5 BM wasn't even playing and i hope you understand why i tend to leave BM around (see point 4). So his comment is of little to no value. As for Blubb, well i did vote for him didn't i? what hurt me was that when he said that i posted my case against him while he was away, before posting i checked his post times and saw that he had been online at around the time i was posting. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
##vote grush57 | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
As both alignments they consistently posts in a fashion that makes them incredibly difficult(perhaps impossible) to read. They tend to look scummy and are often pushed by town and mafia alike. But lynching any player like that is rarely correct since they do hardly anything that allow you to work out their alignment. It's okay to kill them day1 but past that it's basically a blind lynch. Why i am scummy for voting with a case? It is a common (and strong) play to build up evidence and present it when it amounts to something that is worth attention. You are holding me to a different standard than the rest of the players in the game and you are not being objective. It's also quite silly for you to stress the "your own read" bit. What i think you mean is that i pushed players that others had voiced suspicions about. Which makes sense when you consider the number of players in the game, the number of players that each player will announce suspicions of or push, the number of obvious townies that no one is going to push and the fact that players are more likely to push the scummiest few players in the game.+ Show Spoiler [blah blah blah] + For instance say there are 20 people alive. There is likely to beat least 6-10 players that look quite town, there will be yourself. Of the remaining 9-13 players you can expect maybe half a to look scummy whilst the rest will either be barely playing or hard to judge. + Show Spoiler + DYH posts his case against blubbdavid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=45#898 SomethingAwesome reposts the case 3 times. It's obvious he supports the case, although he makes no comment in the thread of laying down his vote. 4 hours later layabout composes a weak case against blubb and a PbP analysis in which he narrates blubb's posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=46#905 Froggynoddy is the fourth to vote, but only after being pressured by layabout. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=46#917 johnnywup posts a one-liner to justify his vote on blubb. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=47#922 grush makes his vote next. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=47#926 followed by ghost, who gets into an argument with grush. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=47#940 And finally, Eiii sporadically makes a voteswitch onto blubb. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=49#966 As a further note this thread had 12 hours in which none of the 12 people "playing" posted. Good job!* + Show Spoiler + *this message may in fact be utterly sarcastic and is in fact trying to tell to you that you should stop signing up for games | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Things that made me doubt that he is town: [list] [*]he has said that he thinks marv is scum and re-asserted that with very little supporting detail or support from other players. [*]he has shared very little of his reasoning with the thread. [*]he has reminded us that he is new. [*]he has told us that he is actively watching the thread yet he posts have been infrequent. [*]he seems to be looking at the game in a different way to the rest of us (and we know scum will view the thread differently) Things that make me think that he is town: His posts show that he is clearly thinking about the game. His posts contain for the most part, original points. He has gone against the thread at times and he is clearly thinking for himself. The fact that he changed his read on me also indicates townieness. The reason? Because he could very easily have stuck with calling me scum, if he got it wrong then he would have been one of the many people that agreed that i looked scummy and one of the first to say why. He would not come out badly from doing so. But instead he was able to see that i am town and has played accordingly. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
He has a similar (pityful) post count to l10f but within it a different agenda is clear. I do not wish to re-start my argument with him but a quick glance show that whilst that was one of many posts from me. The argument with me was the thing that Eiii felt deserved the most time and effort. Then after making it clear that he thought i was scum (and arguing with me even though most of the guides here tell you not to argue with the person you are pushing as you do not need to convince them) he follows me onto blubb.* now his vote for blubb was strange and is one thing that makes him look like town as there was no real reason for him to switch as scum. The problem with this point is that mafia are aware of that and might deliberately do it + Show Spoiler + lets hope that if that is the case he will do as risen did and make a ton of promises and then follow them up with excuses casting aside any doubts that he was scum Look, if anybody is guilty of not scumhunting, trying to fit in and copying the opinions of others it's him. I am not sure that he is scum. But if he is town then he needs to pull his head out of his rear and start playing. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Mementoss marvellosity PaqMan Sinensis ghost_403 Nova_Terra Blazinghand froggynoddy the order means nothing, some of these i am sure are town whilst i have doubts about a few of them. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
that is a thought of a man who is not mafia | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I love that i have already seen that video. Since i have exams i will be gone for a while. Wish you all the best. Except for you inactives. Fuck inactives. | ||
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