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Adding to my above post:
Ace, I learned this saying "Don't say No if you dont have a replacement to the original decision". Would you continue defending Zentor as you saw a whopping 9 fucking votes on him? Oh, your scum so you don't care about Zentor's innocence and just push easy lynches, and I quote "Its your problem if you can't realize if he's town", I think your putting zero effort into pushing town objectives, you kept on pushing Zentor but you didn't even put an iota of effort into trying to read his meta, Zentor tried to help, he posted his reads on everyone, he tried but you all just said "omg his self-voting schemes are too scummy he has to be fucking scum".
@Snarfs could I have your reason on why sbrubbles is more liely to be town?
Clarification, I'm now fairly sure that Ace is scum and might push him tommorow instead of brubbles.
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Snarfs, the 'Sbrubbles is scumhunting' quotes are first, getting someone else's opinion on stuff(Like what im doin with asking you on why you think brubbles is town), second quote, brubbles could just be really throwing random reads to 'look' like he's contributing.
Anyway, rethinking brubbles I guess.
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Hmm, good point, I guess his actions could be explained with a town perspective, I will keep on watching on what he doesd 3 assuming he lives tonight.
BTW, does Ace's actions make sense as scum? I'd like everyone but Ace's opinion on this.
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brubbles, could you man up and make a case on your most scummiest target?
Next: Does Ace's play match if you read it as a scum perspective?
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On April 28 2012 00:13 Sbrubbles wrote:@Ace + Show Spoiler +On April 27 2012 10:55 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:35 Radfield wrote:First two are just you stating Zentor didn't care about defending himself, which he obviously didn't. No one can dispute that(though bluelightz actually tries  ). The third has some points, though mainly just conjecture about Zentor's actions. The thing is, bluelightz defended Zentor long before his lynch was assured, and also actually responded to two of your posts that you linked. Eventually he just stops focusing on Zentor as his lynch was pretty much assured, and moves on to looking for scum. A completely appropriate and townie thing to do. He never just barges in and calls everyone stupid for voting an obvious townie, nor does he try to set himself up to look good after Zentor's death. He simply refuses to vote for someone he has a town read on. I don't get why you think that is scummy. Ok let me try this again. BL shows up "defending" Mr.Zentor's lynch long before it happens. However, he never talks about why Zentor must be Town. I don't see it in any of his posts so if they are there show me. It's literally "I dont think a Townie would do this" which isn't a real defense. If he REALLY thinks Zentor is innocent why would he not destroy any of the posts against him? He didn't. This is why I said he comes off as Scum knowing Zentor is innocent ahead of time. He looks like he's defending Zentor but he really isn't. The second bolded doesn't make him Town. "Looking for Scum" is subjective as even Scum can look for Scum. I don't think you are looking at the big picture here. Once again, look at the chain of events the way they went down. Once you showed up with a post on VE, BL shows up with a 19 minutes later with a post calling out a Scum team of VE, Forumite and phagga. His next post after that is calling out Sbrubbles as Scum. He even tries to throw me in there and says me and Sbrubbles must be talking in QT. That's 5 players in not even a quarter of a day that he calls out before Zentor is even flipped and you want to believe he was actually Scum hunting. Seriously this is very simple: If he truly believed Zentor was Town and he is also Town then why would he focus his efforts on calling out 5 other players instead of saving Zentor? He had ample time. He also should know that calling 5 players out isn't going to lead to all of them voting for whoever he thinks is Scum. This was a feigned attempt to look like he was defending a player and attempting to find Scum when he did neither. I feel like his town Zentor read was a gut read, and, frankly, Zentor himself wasn't resisting the lynch, so it was hard to defend him. I would argue that Bluelightz's intentions were simply to not let the discussion die out. Just because there's a good candidade is in place, it doesn't mean we should cease talking. I don't agree with his reads nor how he pushes them, but I don't think he's scum. He's being erratic, but, unlike Zentor, he's being much more accusative.
Like I said in my previous post's about this topic: I tried to stop the Zentor train but everyone never bothered to read his meta or believe me.
Could you answer my question about Ace? Also, who would list as your top 3 scum candidates?
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hahhahahah.
Snarfs #1!.
I'm going to vote Ace I guess.
##Vote: Ace
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Also, marvellosity is town, Scum wouldn't push scum  (therefore he is town.)
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Fuck, can't make a case right now as I have to sleep, making a case as soon as I can after though.
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My Case on Ace
Preface: I had suspicions on Ace starting Night 2, Now, I will make it into a case. I couldn't post it last night due to as I said, need to sleep and, I lost my case 2 times :mad:. Now, My case will be divided into an analysis on why Ace's play is scummy as hell on day 1 and day 2.
Day 1
Day 1, I had a small suspicion on Ace because he spent roughly half of his day 1 filter with setup speculation which does NOT, help us achieve our win con of destroying all scum one way or the other. Ace, is trying to 'look' like he's contributing but he's not because he is as I quote from Ace's guide (thanks to s&b for referencing this) 'denying information' to town.
On his Day 1 vote, in his vote Ace hedges, ALOT. He throws out random reads and spends half his vote post with '@phagga blabla' and then, his vote is only because of a frickin 1 liner.
Quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2012 15:55 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 11:35 Radfield wrote:Ace, do you fear the masons in this game(if they do exist that is)? Actually before the game setup was finished I PM'd wbg about a possible breaking strategy that existed. It's still powerful but not game breaking. It's a small enough setup that if both Masons would have claimed Day 2 after an outed Cop claim the Mafia would have a hard time winning. With one KP and an outed investigation: 2 Masons (confirmed only to each other, both highly likely Town. 1 death confirms both) 1 claimed Cop A possible medic exists. An innocent/guilty investigation (doesn't really matter which yet). You'd have at least 3 possible innocents and only 1 KP to stop them with a prot role in the background. Town uses it's numbers advantage to just outlast the Scum as the other pool of players contains at least 2 Scum no matter what the original investigation flipped. There were also some other things that made it more brutal: If the Cop investigated either of the Masons and they all claimed, a Scum counterclaim doesn't help. If the Cop finds Scum on the first try then the Masons claiming is almost surely legit as the chances of Scum claiming Mason at that point is suicide. But it depended on the willingness of the Cop to claim, and the competence of the Masons to claim even without the possibility of a Cop claim. Spends majority of first post on setup speculation/strategyOn April 24 2012 06:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 22:52 prplhz wrote:
@Ace We're approaching the deadline, who do you have in mind for lynch today? Right now it looks like VisceraEyes and MrZentor are the two front runners, do you have any preference among these? (last question was just a suggestion, just talk about whatever scum read you have)
I went back to read the interaction between VE and Zentor and it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I think anyone trying to make that little bit into a lynch is the real culprit here. I'm betting that if we lynched one of them and they flipped Town, the guys leading the lynch could just say "Well, the case was solid" when it wasn't. Now I did skim a bit further down in the thread and notice you said you didn't call VE scum but you are a part of this. However Radfield popped his vote on very early so I think he's just as guilty as you are. Show nested quote +Bluelightz wrote
So, I have two suspicions, I will vote Radfield as he sheeped, and is being different to his meta.
##Vote: Radfield
What is Radfield's meta? I agree with the sheeping though. @strongandbig: I'm somewhat on the same vein of thinking. As I mentioned in my reply to prphlz I think the people trying to lynch Zentor or VE need to be more scrutinized. I'm leaning towards Radfield being the scummy one. I find it hard to believe he really has a way to apply pressure to VE whether the guy was posting or not since he didn't seem to be around himself. If he was indeed around I'm pretty sure instead of waiting for VE to show up he'd have a comment about something in the mean time. VE not being around is just an excuse so that he didn't have to post himself. Show nested quote +ToadStern wrote
That's really important because the big part has 2 major phrases in there:
1) People saying "I don't think VE would ignore what's going on for so long if he's mafia". I think I just showed that he would if he thinks there's no danger. He even told me to do that last game. Agree anyone?
2) Scumhunting. I don't see that at all.
So I really think he's mafia at this point and nothing that was presented is a towntell at all because frankly he DOES that as mafia as well.
On the signing matter, Sandrobas and my style really are pretty easy to distinguish howver if you see a post that's not signed just assume it's Sandroba because I'm trying to do that every time and will do an EBWOP if I forget to sign my post.
If the stuff that was presented is a null tell then what are you basing your opinion on VE on? That he isn't scum hunting? @VE: Why are you voting for me? Don't answer this anymore I saw your unvote. @phagga: I guess you didn't see Bluelightz play in DFM 2. @Snarfs: Where are the posts that show marvelosity soft defending players? @Snarfs: Re: Radfield - yes! @Toad: I don't know if you know this but using meta to try and wrangle someone's play style is bad. Unless there is a radical change in a specific thing a person always does comparing activity between games is a null tell. It just promotes tunneling. @Radfield: Well you sure made it back in time with a thoughtful little post. But I don't agree with "dont lynch a strong Town player" theory. We lynch people that are shown to have scummy behavior regardless of past performance or reputation. None of us as far as I know, know each others' alignment. So just assuming that stance is ridiculous. I also don't buy that you didn't really want to lynch VE. If VE was at 5 votes and made that same post would you really have showed up to stop the wagon?@VE: Maybe when you were doing whatever is you do you missed the posts where I said there have been many games where I just sit back and chill out on early in the game. If that is a good enough reason to vote for me then maybe you should vote for some other players who have done less than I have. ##vote: Radfield I'm not buying his recanting of the vote on VE. Ace's 'huge' vote post but only with a one-liner of reason.
Day 2
This day, Ace was being the most scummiest I've found of all the days that have past in this game.
First, on this day Ace was 'trying'to shut down Town discussion, he kept on pushing MrZentor for derp reasons. Ace, kept on pushing the relatively easy targets today, and even said that no discussion of other candidates to the lynch was good. This is bad, because if there is no discussion (which scum would like) we would be very confused on who to lynch D3. Ace also, tries to setup for my lynch during the night, even calls me an 'easy target'. Lastly, Ace NEVER, tries to see on ANY possibilities if Zentor was town (Meta for example).
Quotes:
Sorry guys, can't find em for this one :|
Conclusion
Ace, is trying to look like he *is* contributing, but he is not. He is trying to deny information to town. He is pushing easy lynches on people that are town (MrZentor as an example), Ace, has not done any legit scum hunting, he borderline refuses to make a case on someone and in other means is denying info to us(town).
I can not find a townie reason or mindset for how Ace has played, therefore I think that Ace is scum, and we should lynch him today. Lastly, Ace continually denies requests for as to add information for us to discuss etc.
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WHERE IS EVERYONE?!?!?!?!?!
T_T
btw I think Ace is deliberating with his scum mates on how to defend on the pressure (just a guess ><)
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Bleh. Ace, youve run out of easy targets plz make a fucking case?
I don't think your scum any more.
I really want to utterly destory brubbles but I guess I didnt defend marv I guess :/.
mind = clusterfuck.
I really think that lynching into marv voters today would net us a scum but idk anymore.
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On April 30 2012 20:13 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 20:09 Bluelightz wrote:
Bleh. Ace, youve run out of easy targets plz make a fucking case?
I don't think your scum any more.
I really want to utterly destory brubbles but I guess I didnt defend marv I guess :/.
mind = clusterfuck.
I really think that lynching into marv voters today would net us a scum but idk anymore. We're lynching strongandbig tomorrow. You should read his filter and convince yourself that he is scum before he flips.
Please show me the case :|.
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Hmm... Fine by me I guess :|.
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Umm..... I guess I'm here.
Taking a look at everyone I guess :/
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On May 01 2012 18:44 phagga wrote:Everyone: Get Active!
We are probably still 5 townies vs 2 scum. Let's not get into the same situation as D3 again.
What are your reads people, share your thoughts!
Ace: Why did you not push Bluelightz harder on D3? You voted him about 9 hours before the deadline but then spend time discussing other stuff. sbrubbles: I don't like his lurky style, although I know it is not unusual for town-sbrubbles. His banter with VE on D2 (which really seemed to piss VE off) makes me think he is not scum, same as his vote on VE on D1. I'll read through s&b's filter again after lunch.
Do you know something that I don't ?
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On May 01 2012 21:37 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 10:55 Ace wrote:On April 27 2012 10:35 Radfield wrote:First two are just you stating Zentor didn't care about defending himself, which he obviously didn't. No one can dispute that(though bluelightz actually tries ). The third has some points, though mainly just conjecture about Zentor's actions. The thing is, bluelightz defended Zentor long before his lynch was assured, and also actually responded to two of your posts that you linked. Eventually he just stops focusing on Zentor as his lynch was pretty much assured, and moves on to looking for scum. A completely appropriate and townie thing to do. He never just barges in and calls everyone stupid for voting an obvious townie, nor does he try to set himself up to look good after Zentor's death. He simply refuses to vote for someone he has a town read on. I don't get why you think that is scummy. Ok let me try this again. BL shows up "defending" Mr.Zentor's lynch long before it happens. However, he never talks about why Zentor must be Town. I don't see it in any of his posts so if they are there show me. It's literally "I dont think a Townie would do this" which isn't a real defense. If he REALLY thinks Zentor is innocent why would he not destroy any of the posts against him? He didn't. This is why I said he comes off as Scum knowing Zentor is innocent ahead of time. He looks like he's defending Zentor but he really isn't. The second bolded doesn't make him Town. "Looking for Scum" is subjective as even Scum can look for Scum. I don't think you are looking at the big picture here. Once again, look at the chain of events the way they went down. Once you showed up with a post on VE, BL shows up with a 19 minutes later with a post calling out a Scum team of VE, Forumite and phagga. His next post after that is calling out Sbrubbles as Scum. He even tries to throw me in there and says me and Sbrubbles must be talking in QT. That's 5 players in not even a quarter of a day that he calls out before Zentor is even flipped and you want to believe he was actually Scum hunting. Seriously this is very simple: If he truly believed Zentor was Town and he is also Town then why would he focus his efforts on calling out 5 other players instead of saving Zentor? He had ample time. He also should know that calling 5 players out isn't going to lead to all of them voting for whoever he thinks is Scum. This was a feigned attempt to look like he was defending a player and attempting to find Scum when he did neither. From a logical point of view, you are right. The problem is that Bluelightz behaviour can seldom be logically explained. I said it before, the amount of effort he put in this game looks rather townie. However, I will not deny that if you ignore the player, and just look at the text, then it looks scummy.
TL Mafia Vets always say to not rest cases on meta alone. I also remember Palmar saying in a game that one should always look at a post, not at the poster. It does not matter who says something, but only what is said and how. If I look at Bluelightz posts that way, then yes, I would want to lynch him. However, as soon as I remember myself that it's Bluelightz posting them, I get my doubts again. Additionaly, if I had to make a list with which townies I would like to go to LYLO, then Bluelightz would be pretty much at the bottom of that list. However, we should first try to not get to lylo at all by lynching all the bad guys first.I'm still in the process of rereading the thread and the filters. More to come.
Horrible Post.
Cant you fucking use one sentence to say that you always think my post's are scummy but then its fucking bluelightz.
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Hmm, I will hold of voting s&b, I still have my doubts (X_X) on him being scum.
(Please ask though if you want the reasons for my doubts)
Out of the remaining People, I'm fairly sure that Me,Ace, and prplhz are town. My read on phagga is that he is town but I still have my doubts on him.
Just saying but I'm rethinking brubbles for lynching.
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Hmm................................. I'm thinking of destroying Forumite utterly.
Case soon(TM)
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On May 02 2012 20:08 Sbrubbles wrote:
Well, I'm not gonna be around for the last minute shuffle today, so I've got to cast my vote and get out of here.
##vote prplhz
@Forumite, if your case is that he's somehow linked to me and I have a null read on him (same as on you), it's pretty obvious I would end up indirectly defending him. But w/e, maybe this will be a discussion topic tomorrow, if I don't die.
This vote is so #@!$!@$# That I think he's town.
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Hey guys~ This is my process of elimination.
Most towniest reads:
Ace
Me
prplhz
I think is town and should be eliminated
Sbrubbles
People left:
phagga
Forumite
strongandbig
Out of the group, Forumite seems scummies to meh. phagga seems more believeable to be scum as well compared to strongandbig.
I will be deciding to make a case on after thinking for another few hours~ (Most likely forumite but yeh)
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EPT
