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On April 25 2012 08:36 Ace wrote:
I actually think Zentor is the right lynch today. It wasn't until the end of the day yesterday that he really got run up on anyway. So lets get active today. Maybe he'll stop self-voting at L-1.
##vote Mr.Zentor
L-1?
I have no idea what MrZentor is doing, but it´s definetly not helping Town. He´s a distraction and he´s not doing anything in the thread except trolling and defending himself. I hope he´s got a foolproof claim ready.
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I hope you guys know I'm getting some really good information.
Anyways, masons need to claim before I'm gonna point out the scum.
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On April 25 2012 09:30 MrZentor wrote:
I hope you guys know I'm getting some really good information.
Anyways, masons need to claim before I'm gonna point out the scum.
There's no guarantee that there are masons. How long are you going to wait?
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On April 25 2012 09:30 MrZentor wrote:
I hope you guys know I'm getting some really good information.
Anyways, masons need to claim before I'm gonna point out the scum.
Yeah, I'd be totally stoked to see something worthwhile from you. That stunt at the end of the day yesterday with the "to-do list" almost got me to vote for you then. Can we expect it to be of similar quality to your prplhz case (read: real bad), or should we expect more?
And why should masons claim before you point out the scum? It seems to me like we can get the most information out of your posts if the masons (presuming masons) claim AFTER you "point out the scum".
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On April 25 2012 09:30 MrZentor wrote:
I hope you guys know I'm getting some really good information.
Anyways, masons need to claim before I'm gonna point out the scum.
What are you doing? Not only is asking the masons to come out a bad idea because they might plan to reveal themselves on later days, but also because we have no idea if we even have any masons. While you are holding your claim, we waste valuable time. Yesterday we got a no-lynch because we didn´t start talking about scum until late in the day. Do you want to force a no-lynch today too? Because if you wait until 6 hours before the lynch and for some reason we don´t lynch you, then the real lynch will be either rushed or not happening at all.
If there is any reason why we shouldn´t lynch you, tell us now, don´t waste our time.
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On April 25 2012 09:22 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:36 Ace wrote:
I actually think Zentor is the right lynch today. It wasn't until the end of the day yesterday that he really got run up on anyway. So lets get active today. Maybe he'll stop self-voting at L-1.
##vote Mr.Zentor L-1?
I think he's referencing the Majority Lynch system MafiaScum uses where L-1 is the vote before the "hammer-vote".
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On April 25 2012 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:22 Forumite wrote:On April 25 2012 08:36 Ace wrote:
I actually think Zentor is the right lynch today. It wasn't until the end of the day yesterday that he really got run up on anyway. So lets get active today. Maybe he'll stop self-voting at L-1.
##vote Mr.Zentor L-1? I think he's referencing the Majority Lynch system MafiaScum uses where L-1 is the vote before the "hammer-vote".
Of course, thanks. At least we don´t have instant-majority lynch here.
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1. I'll wait for around another 20 hours max for the masons.
2. The case on prphlz was like 3 hours into the game. Of course it's not going to be the best case ever, but I think considering the time is was pretty good.
3. My scum reads will be wildly more accurate if I have their claim, so naturally I would want the masons to claim first.
4. You shouldn't lynch me, because I'm a vanilla town.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Zentor is just bullshitting up this thread and it's ridiculous. Frankly enough is enough
##Vote: MrZentor
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On April 25 2012 09:52 MrZentor wrote:
1. I'll wait for around another 20 hours max for the masons.
2. The case on prphlz was like 3 hours into the game. Of course it's not going to be the best case ever, but I think considering the time is was pretty good.
3. My scum reads will be wildly more accurate if I have their claim, so naturally I would want the masons to claim first.
4. You shouldn't lynch me, because I'm a vanilla town.
I don´t care about 2 and 3, and there is no way I could trust 4. I think waiting until half the day is gone is selfish and reckless of you, and if you do that as a VT it would just make it all much worse. I just can´t understand what you are doing. Perhaps if you were a blue, perhaps if you were a mason, but a VT? The only thing that can save you are your words and logic, and neither have helped you so far. You are the primary candidate for the D2 lynch, you are still wasting our time, and you´ve allready admitted that you have nothing to show for it. You even think the masons should give themselves up to maybe give you slightly better odds of avoiding a lynch. I don´t understand what you are trying to do here, I really don´t.
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I'm still very interested in hearing Sbrubbles' take on everything that's going on. His response to my vote yesterday was scummy as hell in my opinion. It seemed more like he was trying to sheep Radfield and Toad's vote than an actual vote because he found me scummy.
Sup Sbrubbles?
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I think I understand what MrZentor is trying and we'll see if I'm right. However, I'm not going to waste 20 hours not trying to find scum.
Here are my thoughts on Radfield's claim:
It does nothing for us until he dies. There is absolutely no reason to believe that there couldn't be multiple one-shot cops - he even admits that he knows that wbg tweaked the setup - so his reason for believing him is bogus. Furthermore, if there is another one-shot cop, there is no guarantee that they used their check night 1. There are too many assumptions and Radfield should have known this.
Also, the fact that there are potential Godfathers and Framers makes the claim even more dubious. Granted, I wouldn't pick Ace as a potential Frame night 1, I also probably wouldn't have picked Ace to check night 1 and that's just guessing at what mafia would do. Radfield is putting way too much trust in his role when he says "At any rate, this should confirm Ace as town to everyone." Noone is confirmed town until they're dead. Radfield should know this too. Why would he claim when Ace probably wasn't on the hook today anyways? All you're going to do is make people who believe your claim not look as hard at Ace, which is probably the last thing this town should be doing considering the reputation he has as a mafia player.
Finally, some important questions for Radfield:
Why did you claim when you did rather than wait and see a bit how the day played out and use your knowledge to help guide the town discussion rather than just drop a bomb and then fuck off leave like you expect the town to just believe you and trust the results of your claim?
Why did you check Ace (someone who you said you can never read properly), rather than SamuelLJackson (you thought sandro was playing scum), phagga (who you said looks scummy), or bluelightz (who you said you would think is scum if you didn't have previous knowledge)? Did you not want to maximize your chance of hitting scum with your check by using it on phagga?
For me, this does not let Radfield off the hook in any way. I apologize if you really are town and I'm just wasting your time, but I'm still going to expect some good analysis and scumhunting before the day is over.
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@VE, Ace: Can you please comment on the three people in this list:
On April 25 2012 06:59 SamuelLJackson wrote:
My strongest mafia reads right now are rad + forumite + marv, just for the record. Rad being #1, unsure about forumite and marv is basicly a filler that makes sense.
Just in case of preemptive faceloseage.
--- Toad
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I do think considerations of scumteam balance might not be relevant, given that wbg said he'd assigned the roles to player numbers before players actually signed up. (I'm assuming that's what toad meant when he/she/it said "a filler that makes sense"
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Radfield: claimed DT. That is, pretty much that, as I've given my thoughts on the claim.
Forumite: If you had asked me yesterday, I'd have said that between the two, Forumite/Zentor, Forumite looked worse. However, since Zentor has started looking worse, Forumite has proportionally started looking better based on how early he was on Zentor's shit yesterday. I'm going to have to go back through and reread their interactions once I hear what Zentor has been up to and make a judgement based on that. Right now, I'd say he's looking okay.
Marv: Marv hasn't given me much to go on today - I'm waiting to see what kind of stuff he puts out today. As I said earlier, meta-wise (Ltd.) it's not unusual for marv to be in hot water D1, so I'm eager to see what he's got. If he fails to produce, I'd like to destroy him.
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We already have 7 people voting Zentor, including himself, which is majority. I agree with the lynch, as I was already suspicious on D1 and he refuses to be helpful to town in any way.
##Vote MrZentor
reading through some filters.
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Radfield most likely not fake claiming since a counter claim would be devastating and Radfield was looking pretty town so there's no reason for him to risk this.
Since no one claimed roleblocked there is no jailer. It's also doubtful that there should be a scum roleblocker (unless they RB+hit SamuelLJackson but that would seem weird). This means that scum has at least one framer or one godfather (unless they're all vanilla which also seems weird). If they got a framer then there's no doubt they'd be using him defensively and I think Ace would be a very likely target. Some quick math:
50% chance of there being a godfather, 33% chance of that godfather being Ace
50% chance of there being a framer, 66% chance of that framer not being Ace (so he is able to frame Ace)
50% * 33% + 50% * 66% = 50%
That's 50% chance that the check would come back green in case Ace is scum, which makes the check itself pretty useless in my opinion.
I noticed that strongandbig's one-time-padd plan was breakable by scum; that is, if we had decided to go through with it then scum could use it to figure out who the masons were.
+ Show Spoiler [Boring stuff] +The whole deal is that it's an unbreakable one-time-padd, but he's suggesting that we use it twice so it becomes breakable. The encryption method encrypts characters independently so I'll just be dealing with single characters. N1: first character in the nick of player1 (could be anyone)
N2: first character in the nick of player2 (could be anyone else)
X1: first character in the encrypted string of player1
X2: first character in the encrypted string of player2
K1: the first letter in the private key
So according to the whole encryption method:
N2 + K1 = X1
N1 + K1 = X2
*shuffle*
X1 - N2 = K1
X2 - N1 = K1
An example: To check strongandbig and me for masonhood:
N1: 's' - 18 (first in _s_trongandbig)
N2: 'p' - 15 (first in _p_rplhz)
X1: 'q' - 16 (made up for this example)
X2: 'r' - 17 (made up for this example)
Scum could now go:
X2 - N1 = K1
17 - 18 = K1
K1 = 25
If we were masons we would be using same key
All people have to do is check if I'm using the same key
X1 - N2 = K1
16 - 15 = K1
K1 = 1
So we're not masons.
If X1 had been 'o' then check if next 5 characters fit.
Else, continue with a new player-pair.
Thoughts?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I don't like this Zentor lynch. I feel like the case on Zentor is that he hasn't been playing like a nice safe contributory townie(which is how scum play). Instead he's been playing like he doesn't give a shit and being disruptive and arrogant. It's like he's trying to look as scummy as possible.
Please show me a single player who has flipped scum(besides chezinu) who has played a scum game like this. It doesn't happen. Yet it's not uncommon at all for townies to play a style like this. The lynch just feels wrong to me.
So Zentor, if you ARE town please shape up. You're diverting focus and giving mafia an easy place to park their votes. There are likely no masons, as they would have promptly followed my claim.
Snarfs, I'll respond to your points this evening when I have more time. However I DID mess up in that I didn't realize the Framer was non-standard and could cover mafia as well. I'll also likely be building a case on someone I think is scum, but I want to reread them first to be sure.
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Sup bros, my blue mind say's that The Zentor lynch is moving too easy ( as radfield has already mentioned).
For now, as a preemptive guess on who is scum it is:
Snarfs, strongandbig, and a veteran player.
Snarfs because:
Snarfs and s&b seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other, also that, he is pushing the easy targets today,
On April 25 2012 08:40 Snarfs wrote:
Based on what I just posted, I'm also feeling a Zentor lynch. That said, it's still VERY early in the day so I'm not going to stop questioning other people.
##Vote MrZentor
Next, I find it odd that he picked s&b out of all people to call out in his first few posts.
Lastly, I see a problem with how HE scum hunts,
On April 24 2012 02:07 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 01:18 strongandbig wrote:When it comes to actual suspects, I'd like to point to Snarfs. He's done a few things so far that make me suspicious. First, we have + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:53 Sbrubbles wrote:
That said, I suppose it might be a good strategy to claim if the masons are two relatively new players (like myself), in that it would draw fire away from more veteran town players.
If the masons do decide to claim, though, I don't think we should waste town powers confirming them. I'd be happy with believing them and only doubt them if they start acting specially scummy or aren't dead by day 4. Cops are here to investigate scummy players, not to confirm townies. I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum. In this post, he says that we should be hunting scum, but in none of his later posts does he actually do any scum hunting. My scum hunting method is my own. I like to ask people questions based on their actions when I notice something weird and gauge their responses. Me asking you and Zentor, as well as Ace and Radfield, to explain your actions is my method of scum hunting.-snip-
I don't see how asking someone to explain their action's is an effective way to scum hunt, I think that it is easy for one to make one's action's look town.
strongandbig because:
First, because oddly he picked Snarfs to make a case on, I feel that they are trying to distance themselves from each other, next, in his first post he spent an awful amount of space for a way for people to breaccrumb stuff -.-. Lastly, he made an awful sheep vote on Zentor.
Honestly I think both could be town, but I have a feeling that there's scum in them, just maybe,
##Vote: strongandbig
For now.
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On April 25 2012 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm still very interested in hearing Sbrubbles' take on everything that's going on. His response to my vote yesterday was scummy as hell in my opinion. It seemed more like he was trying to sheep Radfield and Toad's vote than an actual vote because he found me scummy.
Sup Sbrubbles?
Show the post and outline why it was Scummy. At least try and put some effort into calling people out.
Why did you check Ace (someone who you said you can never read properly), rather than SamuelLJackson (you thought sandro was playing scum), phagga (who you said looks scummy), or bluelightz (who you said you would think is scum if you didn't have previous knowledge)? Did you not want to maximize your chance of hitting scum with your check by using it on phagga?
If he can't read me but is confident in his reads on other people, it isn't farfetched at all.
As for his role claim I've thought about it and I'd say that while it's possible he is lying, someone would have counter-claimed by now unless they too are a One-shot Cop. If that's the case then they would have also used their investigation last night and after seeing Radfield claim should come out and clear another Townie (unless they are holding on to a Scum investigation which frankly makes no sense). That hasn't happened so far so I think it's safe to assume at the moment Radfield's claim holds up. If there are no other Cop claims the only thing I would believe Radfield lies about is his one-shot status. It would make a convenient SK or Scum claim but until Day 3 winds around we've just got to take him at his word for now. It would also make sense as an actual Cop to claim 1-shot status to avoid being hit by Scum but I highly doubt Radfield would lie knowing the drama it would cause. It also would be pretty dumb to risk all that just to confirm me when I was never a major suspect anyway.
@Snarfs: As for the 3 people on your list the only one I had a solid opinion on was Radfield. I thought he was Scum before the claim. I've got him as leaning Town in my notes. If no one counter claims him before the Day is up I'm almost willing to fully buy into his claim.
Forumite and marvel don't seem suspicious at all. With a failed lynch yesterday we have no flip to tie them to, and marvel's lynch wasn't solid at all. However I did mention that we should look at the people in the VE/Zentor argument as the people pushing it. Forumite was a part of that group but that now entirely depends on Zentor's behavior. He looks more likely Scum now than he did when I made that point yesterday.
I don't like this Zentor lynch. I feel like the case on Zentor is that he hasn't been playing like a nice safe contributory townie(which is how scum play). Instead he's been playing like he doesn't give a shit and being disruptive and arrogant. It's like he's trying to look as scummy as possible.
Please show me a single player who has flipped scum(besides chezinu) who has played a scum game like this. It doesn't happen. Yet it's not uncommon at all for townies to play a style like this. The lynch just feels wrong to me.
The bolded is the important part. Just keep it simple: If someone is doing things you define as Scummy, then they are typically Scum. Don't WIFOM yourself. There have been a lot of players who have played disruptive and not giving a shit and turned out to be Scum. Is that even a real question? Look at the logs for RebirthofLegend, L, kuja9000 and Scaramanga (the ultimate Miller) for kicks.
Anyway the case on Zentor really is his post saying he is waiting for Masons to claim so it can help him with his scum hunting. Funny, since 2 townies that can confirm themselves as Innocent would help all of us tighten up our analysis. He even was nice enough to tell us to wait about 20 hours or so. That is the definition of posting empty content.
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EPT
