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On April 24 2012 06:58 marvellosity wrote:
Toad, your point is just terrible. The fact that I wasn't mentioned earlier in the game is extremely circumstancial. There were many non-posters and lurkers at the start of the game
The thing that ISN'T circumstancial is the fact that the lynch on me gently drifted into being without anyone trying to prevent it.
You should be able to discern the difference between the two. Engage logic please.
Although Snarfs only has one vote less than me, I'm going to unvote him and vote for the no-lynch. It has good grounding and with no-one being certain of anything it seems a decent option at this point.
##Unvote
##Vote: No Lynch
Just because someone doesn't oppose your wagon on Day 1 doesn't make you innocent.
I showed up late and asked Snarfs where are the posts of you soft defending people. Other than that I don't see what you really did wrong.
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Just because I was late and didn't agree with a quick lynch of marvellosity/Zentor doesn't mean I didn't understand what I read.
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On April 24 2012 07:03 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 06:47 Ace wrote:
@Snarfs: Where are the posts that show marvelosity soft defending players? I admit I could have read further into it than it really was, but it definitely stood out as the only thing in his filter at the time I posted: Defending: Forumite (that's who Zentor was calling thick), VE, Mr Zentor thrice, and Ace. I prefer to let people answer questions about their play themselves which is why I called him out on it.
I actually don't see those as defending any of us. More like an alternative explanation to the results someone is else is suggesting. His comment on me talking game mechanics is in line with the same thing I said.
Likewise, he is right that Zentor calling someone thick when he voted for himself to start the game is... 
If he is defending Forumite from Zentor, and then defends Zentor 3 times all on Day 1 then I think at best he is just one of those people that always responds to every post in an effort to be as transparent as possible.
Or yea, maybe he is just Scum trying to fake a contribution. Defending Zentor 3 times who isn't a good player at all is lol worthy.
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On April 24 2012 15:48 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 07:11 Ace wrote:
Just because I was late and didn't agree with a quick lynch of marvellosity/Zentor doesn't mean I didn't understand what I read. Are you telling me you preparded that post earlier the day to only post it 10 mins before the deadline? Or are you pissed about me calling you clueless or whatever I called you yesterday, when you arrived 10 mins before deadline making it look like you have not read the last couple of pages before that happened, forcing you to read through them really quick, post something really quick, which was after all a suprisingly big post considering your "fuck, need to post, need to vote, no modkill, fast"-situation you were in and vote something really quick. Anyways have to leave again really quick :p --- Toad
Not pissed but that's the gist of it. Even though the vote looked like it was late thats because I actually was reading and responding to various points.
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On April 24 2012 19:52 Radfield wrote:
Also, you know as well as anyone that I die early and often, so why are you trying(weakly) to get me lynched off some weak reason? You also know as well as anyone that if I'm given some time to play, I generate fairly accurate reads by around the end of Day 2. So why are you slinging mud my way when there is no cause to do so? Sit back, see if my reads match yours, see if I'm still alive when I shouldn't be, and THEN tell me why I'm scummy.
Right now your vote on me does nothing but reduce the likelihood of other town players listening to me. It was not a serious shot at getting me lynched, only a hit at my credibility.
That is irrelevant. Just because you die early and have a reputation for being a good player does not excuse you from scrutiny. Your reads only matter if you are Town. Are you confirmed Town right now? No. This is what, the 3rd time you've been hiding behind that reasoning as an excuse to let you live? It has nothing to do with your alignment or your posts in this game. Your name could have been JesusField and the case would still be the same:
1.) You sheep a vote onto a VE.
2.) VE doesn't post, but you don't post either even though there was some action going on in the thread
3.) When asked to explain you give out the reason that you did it because you wanted to see how he responded to pressure
based on what happened in other games
You can't say you've got a case after you got called out for sheeping, don't present it but come with an excuse and not expect scrutiny because of your reputation. Now you know above all else THAT is silly.
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On April 24 2012 21:58 Bluelightz wrote:
Dear Toady:
First, MrZentor is scum for contributing minimally(Not saying that I've contributed more then him though), I'm not very sure of this however cause this is his normal trolling :/
Secondly, prp seems scummy, well, because I think that his pushing against MrZentor seems like him trying to distance himself with him.
I've got a problem with this line of thinking. On the first day of the game why would prphlz try to distance himself from Zentor when the guy was never really close to getting lynched? If both of them are Scum and it's the first day of the game that would be a pretty dumb thing to do. prp would have no need to distance himself from Zentor, especially since it wasn't until the end of the Day that many people really seemed to believe the guy was Scum.
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Radfield: If there is an SK and he/she aimed at the same target as Mafia then we wouldn't know.
But ehhhhh I'm buying your claim for now unless there is a counter-claim. I don't even think your balls are big enough (unlike mine) to claim fake claim Cop so quickly into Day 2.
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Check my filter bro - I got mad plays.
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I actually think Zentor is the right lynch today. It wasn't until the end of the day yesterday that he really got run up on anyway. So lets get active today. Maybe he'll stop self-voting at L-1.
##vote Mr.Zentor
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On April 25 2012 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm still very interested in hearing Sbrubbles' take on everything that's going on. His response to my vote yesterday was scummy as hell in my opinion. It seemed more like he was trying to sheep Radfield and Toad's vote than an actual vote because he found me scummy.
Sup Sbrubbles?
Show the post and outline why it was Scummy. At least try and put some effort into calling people out.
Why did you check Ace (someone who you said you can never read properly), rather than SamuelLJackson (you thought sandro was playing scum), phagga (who you said looks scummy), or bluelightz (who you said you would think is scum if you didn't have previous knowledge)? Did you not want to maximize your chance of hitting scum with your check by using it on phagga?
If he can't read me but is confident in his reads on other people, it isn't farfetched at all.
As for his role claim I've thought about it and I'd say that while it's possible he is lying, someone would have counter-claimed by now unless they too are a One-shot Cop. If that's the case then they would have also used their investigation last night and after seeing Radfield claim should come out and clear another Townie (unless they are holding on to a Scum investigation which frankly makes no sense). That hasn't happened so far so I think it's safe to assume at the moment Radfield's claim holds up. If there are no other Cop claims the only thing I would believe Radfield lies about is his one-shot status. It would make a convenient SK or Scum claim but until Day 3 winds around we've just got to take him at his word for now. It would also make sense as an actual Cop to claim 1-shot status to avoid being hit by Scum but I highly doubt Radfield would lie knowing the drama it would cause. It also would be pretty dumb to risk all that just to confirm me when I was never a major suspect anyway.
@Snarfs: As for the 3 people on your list the only one I had a solid opinion on was Radfield. I thought he was Scum before the claim. I've got him as leaning Town in my notes. If no one counter claims him before the Day is up I'm almost willing to fully buy into his claim.
Forumite and marvel don't seem suspicious at all. With a failed lynch yesterday we have no flip to tie them to, and marvel's lynch wasn't solid at all. However I did mention that we should look at the people in the VE/Zentor argument as the people pushing it. Forumite was a part of that group but that now entirely depends on Zentor's behavior. He looks more likely Scum now than he did when I made that point yesterday.
I don't like this Zentor lynch. I feel like the case on Zentor is that he hasn't been playing like a nice safe contributory townie(which is how scum play). Instead he's been playing like he doesn't give a shit and being disruptive and arrogant. It's like he's trying to look as scummy as possible.
Please show me a single player who has flipped scum(besides chezinu) who has played a scum game like this. It doesn't happen. Yet it's not uncommon at all for townies to play a style like this. The lynch just feels wrong to me.
The bolded is the important part. Just keep it simple: If someone is doing things you define as Scummy, then they are typically Scum. Don't WIFOM yourself. There have been a lot of players who have played disruptive and not giving a shit and turned out to be Scum. Is that even a real question? Look at the logs for RebirthofLegend, L, kuja9000 and Scaramanga (the ultimate Miller) for kicks.
Anyway the case on Zentor really is his post saying he is waiting for Masons to claim so it can help him with his scum hunting. Funny, since 2 townies that can confirm themselves as Innocent would help all of us tighten up our analysis. He even was nice enough to tell us to wait about 20 hours or so. That is the definition of posting empty content.
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bluelightz: There is a problem with saying the Zentor lynch is moving too easily - yesterday it barely moved at all. If you're going to assume Zentor is innocent based on the wagon moving too fast, then what about yesterday when it stalled?
The case on Zentor is solid enough that it isn't unreasonable to expect his lynch to actually MOVE today.
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On April 25 2012 20:16 Bluelightz wrote:Sup bros, my blue mind say's that The Zentor lynch is moving too easy ( as radfield has already mentioned). For now, as a preemptive guess on who is scum it is:
Snarfs, strongandbig, and a veteran player.Snarfs because: Snarfs and s&b seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other, also that, he is pushing the easy targets today, Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:40 Snarfs wrote:
Based on what I just posted, I'm also feeling a Zentor lynch. That said, it's still VERY early in the day so I'm not going to stop questioning other people.
##Vote MrZentor Next, I find it odd that he picked s&b out of all people to call out in his first few posts. Lastly, I see a problem with how HE scum hunts, Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 02:07 Snarfs wrote:On April 24 2012 01:18 strongandbig wrote:When it comes to actual suspects, I'd like to point to Snarfs. He's done a few things so far that make me suspicious. First, we have + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:53 Sbrubbles wrote:
That said, I suppose it might be a good strategy to claim if the masons are two relatively new players (like myself), in that it would draw fire away from more veteran town players.
If the masons do decide to claim, though, I don't think we should waste town powers confirming them. I'd be happy with believing them and only doubt them if they start acting specially scummy or aren't dead by day 4. Cops are here to investigate scummy players, not to confirm townies. I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum. In this post, he says that we should be hunting scum, but in none of his later posts does he actually do any scum hunting. My scum hunting method is my own. I like to ask people questions based on their actions when I notice something weird and gauge their responses. Me asking you and Zentor, as well as Ace and Radfield, to explain your actions is my method of scum hunting.-snip- I don't see how asking someone to explain their action's is an effective way to scum hunt, I think that it is easy for one to make one's action's look town.
strongandbig because: First, because oddly he picked Snarfs to make a case on, I feel that they are trying to distance themselves from each other, next, in his first post he spent an awful amount of space for a way for people to breaccrumb stuff -.-. Lastly, he made an awful sheep vote on Zentor.
Honestly I think both could be town, but I have a feeling that there's scum in them, just maybe,##Vote: strongandbigFor now.
![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png)
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On April 25 2012 21:30 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 20:32 Ace wrote:
As for his role claim I've thought about it and I'd say that while it's possible he is lying, someone would have counter-claimed by now unless they too are a One-shot Cop. If that's the case then they would have also used their investigation last night and after seeing Radfield claim should come out and clear another Townie (unless they are holding on to a Scum investigation which frankly makes no sense). That hasn't happened so far so I think it's safe to assume at the moment Radfield's claim holds up. If there are no other Cop claims the only thing I would believe Radfield lies about is his one-shot status. It would make a convenient SK or Scum claim but until Day 3 winds around we've just got to take him at his word for now. It would also make sense as an actual Cop to claim 1-shot status to avoid being hit by Scum but I highly doubt Radfield would lie knowing the drama it would cause. It also would be pretty dumb to risk all that just to confirm me when I was never a major suspect anyway Uh, the only one that could counterclaim IS the one-shot cop, and that's under the assumption that wbg stayed true to the C9++ setup in that aspect and picked only one one-shot cop. So it could be a gamble by scum, since there is also the possibility that there is no one-shot cop at all. For example, if scum consists of Goon and Godfather only, and there is no SK (as it seems now), than there is only one blue role, if we stay true to the C9++ setup. The chance that this blue role is a one-shot cop is rather small. This would give scum good opportunities to fake-claim. I understand that this is unlikely, but it should not be left out.
Did wbg post anywhere about how he derived this setup? If not 2 one-shot Cops are not out of play.
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clearly the light isn't on in Bluelightz's head
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On April 25 2012 21:59 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 21:27 Ace wrote:
bluelightz: There is a problem with saying the Zentor lynch is moving too easily - yesterday it barely moved at all. If you're going to assume Zentor is innocent based on the wagon moving too fast, then what about yesterday when it stalled?
The case on Zentor is solid enough that it isn't unreasonable to expect his lynch to actually MOVE today. The problem is that from past experiences with Zentor I feel that he is town, and we will mislych today because he doesnt bother to defend himself, AGAIN. Comparing to: SoAF Mafia, where he was all trololol day 2 till his claim and reads.
A player that doesn't bother to defend himself should be given a pass?
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Neither would a normal Townie. Everyone regardless of alignment is going to try and prove their innocent.
The problem with your thinking is "lets not lynch a player who isn't defending himself". I mean...come on. How does this even make sense? If the case against Zentor is he actually did Scummy things AND he isn't bothering to defend himself then how do you figure he is innocent?
Lets try this another way.
2 players on trial. Both of them have rock solid cases that show they have done things that more likely than not Scum would do during the course of the game.
Player A shows up to defend himself from all accusations.
Player B doesn't show up, but earlier in the trial promised to offer future proof about other players being Scum. Oh and he voted for himself.
You want us to ignore Player B and find Players C and D?
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A normal Townie = a person trying to actually survive a lynch.
Why does How player A defends himself even matter here? It could be the worst defense of all time, but the fact that he even tried in stark contrast to a player who doesn't goes a long way.
Really, your defense is "I've seen him do this one time before, and I don't believe Scum would do Scummy things so blatantly."
Where as some of us have deemed his behavior Scummy, so then yes more than likely he is Scum.
Screw it, let's lynch people for being too town. There is no way an actual Townie would have the balls to do that.
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On April 25 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:35 Ace wrote:
A normal Townie = a person trying to actually survive a lynch.
Why does How player A defends himself even matter here? It could be the worst defense of all time, but the fact that he even tried in stark contrast to a player who doesn't goes a long way.
Really, your defense is "I've seen him do this one time before, and I don't believe Scum would do Scummy things so blatantly."
Where as some of us have deemed his behavior Scummy, so then yes more than likely he is Scum.
Screw it, let's lynch people for being too town. There is no way an actual Townie would have the balls to do that. Right. The defence of Zentor here is just pure wifom. Would scum act so scummy? It's too scummy to be scum, so therefore he must be town. But what if he knows that he's behaving too scummy to be scum and therefore he looks townie. Then all of a sudden he could be scum again because he grasps this. Ad infinitum. This is practically a paragon of WIFOM, pure and simple. If we leave the WIFOM that we can't possibly resolve (we can always go an iteration further...) then what are we left with? His scummy behaviour, his anti-town posting. This is the evidence we can rely on, and it's why he's probably scum.
![[image loading]](http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zGnH6HWaAi0/TM0mn1bZ40I/AAAAAAAAIZo/yPnrAbjoH-A/inception_3sec.jpg)
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The Screw it...town thing was sarcasm.
I believe I addressed all of your questions. If I didn't point it out and I'll answer it.
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On April 25 2012 23:01 Bluelightz wrote:
IF ZENTOR WASNT LYNCHED TODAY, WHO WOULD YOU LYNCH AND WHY?
That's the question I'd like everyone (that has only voiced suspicion on Zentor today) to answer.
Irrelevant. I'm not answering this because it does nothing to further the game as its just throwing more names out there. Right now what is important is Mr.Zentor and your defense against him. Putting out more scum reads does nothing.
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EPT
