paqman what are you talking about? he's correct in his assertion that he's highly suspected by everyone, as he should be. he isn't acting like he wants people to lynch him, he's telling the truth. there's a difference.

a vig would shoot you because in the morning that information will give us information to lynch the rest of the scum. interestingly you said you'd be lynched tomorrow but you don't think you'll be shot, gf mb?

that being said zeph had a town read on risen so maybe he isn't the best lynch tomorrow..though we never got his thoughts on his voteswitch

and dont worry about it risen, you don't need to take a break. you just live and learn yeah?

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 00:28 GMT

#1509

In the heat of the moment everything seems scummy. my "he knew the rules and 'abused them' to get zeph lynched" argument is probably not true. Honestly I think it's a townie mistake actually. Something I would do a few games ago. that does NOT clear his name however. I don't think we should dwell too much about the vote switching though. look for other things to incriminate him, the voteswitch thing is unfortunate but it could happen to anyone

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 00:51 GMT

#1511

I think it's more likely its a stupid town decision actually. scum wouldn't expose themselves like that even if it meant killing one of their own, I think. I haven't been mafia before so I wouldn't know actually.

Also this made me completely question my own reads. I was so sure he was going to flip scum. This is the first game I've been super active with pushing reads and not sheeping as much. I created the case and I feel like I take responsibility for having a townie dead. It's unacceptable by me. Sorry.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 01:40 GMT

#1513

its night time mattchew

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 01:55 GMT

#1515

you said "can we lynch BM now?"

i was just poking fun that you cant vote at night time, since you said "now". jeez o.o

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 02:09 GMT

#1519

vigs definitely should shoot tonight though.

and sentinel, wtf? visit/shoot/jail them both? You realise jail heals them? from NKs? Such as vig shots? . . . youre suggesting that we both protect and shoot them?

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 02:14 GMT

#1522

so how do you suppose we coordinate which power role targets which person? and JK roleblocks, so the tracker cant track if he's being protected by the JK. think things through, what you just said doesn't make sense.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 02:16 GMT

#1523

On April 26 2012 11:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
EBWOP: By "shoot a green" I meant "heal a green". I had the vig role in mind for some reason

The vig role of trying to shoot greens. yeah ok sentinel. you were thinking of scum kills.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 02:43 GMT

#1525

my opinion for blue actions is that blues should do whatever they feel benefits town the most. they cannot consult town to find whats best so they should go by gut feeling and research. don't reveal yourself unless you're a vig, and if you're a vig, reveal only JUST before day post. tracker only reveal if you track someone visiting someone who died, JK should only reveal if there is a missing scum kill.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 02:50 GMT

#1528

why would the tracker/jk plan work on any day? it roleblocks the tracker so they can't find anything new out

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 03:13 GMT

#1530

I pointed it out before you lol

On April 26 2012 11:14 johnnywup wrote:
so how do you suppose we coordinate which power role targets which person? and JK roleblocks, so the tracker cant track if he's being protected by the JK. think things through, what you just said doesn't make sense.

I'm asking Sentinel because he said "tracker/jk plan should happen day 3 or maybe even later."

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 19:10 GMT

#1589

ghost, ive addressed that. i had the same thoughts as you initially but ithought it through and it was barely tied. i dont think scum could have arranged something like that. It's a townie mistake and it's likely he didn't think that the tie would keep the lynch on zeph after he switched back.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 19:37 GMT

#1596

a couple games i would have done the same thing. i dont think he was thinking about what he was doing. all im saying is that we shouldnt use that as evidence of him being scum, look elsewhere. he may still be scum

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 22:42 GMT

#1621

i dont think anyone persons flip confirms any other person as scum or town, it may increase odds but i don't think that that should be a basis for getting reads on people -.-

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 22:58 GMT

#1626

I've got to say, I find it hilarious that iGrok has a longer filter than broodking, bm, janaan, and St.Daniel.

laya, i think that while that may seem correct it could easily be untrue even if one flips scum. Risen might have been indecisive. In my first game I switched last minute (it lead to lynching a scum in that situation though). If it lead to lynching a town I woulda looked terrible. me looking terrible=/= me being scum, however. It could be an honest mistake that has nothing to do with alignment. It could be a last minute idea by scum, but risen could have dropped the ottox case a long ago in favor of lynching a townie, since the zeph lynch was gaining support. the fact he didn't but switched last second then switched back, rather than "getting a scum read on zeph" earlier tells me it was a townie mistake, because he could have gotten the zeph lynch looking a lot more townie.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 23:02 GMT

#1628

Alternatively both ottox and zeph are town and risen didn't foresee that zeph could have gotten lynch so made a "scum read" on ottox, assuming risen is scum, thinking he could get an ottox lynch. though this doesn't explain the last minute switch.

verdict on the voteswitching:
not alignment indicative

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 23:12 GMT

#1630

Ok, but did you read my post? I don't think this voteswitching is alignment indicative at all.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 23:24 GMT

#1633

laya, he switched back. it could be an honest mistake of not thinking about the tie rule. I do find votes alignment indicative but in this specific situation I can't see this being specifically scummy or townie, or revealing of either players alignment based on a flip. his voting on ottox in the first place may be alignment indicative, but the vote switch isn't.

i think its probable he just forgot about the tie rule. If you think he realized "oh, my voteswitch and the voteswitch back will change first majority to zeph, but my vote won't change really", then carry on thinking that, but I don't think that that is what happened.

johnnywup

United States3858 Posts

April 26 2012 23:52 GMT

#1638

paqman, what was he supposed to respond to? You just quoted him.