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But ghost! How did the scum get themselves into this position? Why did Risen sack himself? Why don't you care what he did before he voted to lynch Zephridd?
To answer you: Don't know, don't care. What I know is this. There is no reason for a town Risen to do what he did other than he's terrible. I don't think Risen is terrible. Ask the scum how it ended up happening after the game.
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@ottoxlol: It's not that I'm not willing to discuss, it's that I'm not willing to discuss with you. I don't waste my time discussing anything with scum.
If anyone thinks what Ottoxlol said about me has any merit, bring it up and I'd be happy to talk about it.
At no point did anyone write:
But ghost! Why do you think Ottoxlol is scum?
I'm glad you asked.
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This post ended up orders of magnitudes longer than I intended. I have no idea how Ottoxlol has gotten away with being so scummy in this game for so long. Spoilers for your convenience and easy referencing.
(1) His content is almost completely filler.
+ Show Spoiler +First of all, I would like to address the glaring fact that his filter has nothing of content in it. 7 pages. 7 pages, and I have almost nothing to say about them. They are mostly one liners and him giving excuses for everything that he does. It would be so much easier to prove that he was scum if he would just do something, anything. Unfortunately for him, at this point his lack of content now paints him as scum. 7 pages, and no content? Scum trying to pass off as useful without actually helping the town.
(2) He almost completely ignores St.Daniels throughout the entire game.
+ Show Spoiler +It's interesting that now he claims that I soft defended StDaniels. It's the fourth time this game he's mentioned him. When were the first three? - [Day 1] St.Daniel one post, + Show Spoiler + Loved that part, i feel like only scum would have drawn that way, if VE and [UoN]Sentinel can defend themselves I will vote him.
- [Day 2] Lot of people suggested Sent/Zeph, marv posted about Brood and St. Daniel.
- [Day 2] BK started posting some weird stuff, hes voting St. Daniel for ninjavoting, but BM ninjavoted d1 too and he did not mention it at all.
I'm soft defending him by stating that I'm ignoring someone en route to being modkilled? No, I'm not going to even discuss someone who's not playing. It's a waste of time. What's your excuse for ignoring him literally the entire game?
(3) He makes stupidly scummy posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 00:57 Ottoxlol wrote:
Ok, post it when you got it drawn. I feel like the pressure is on me because I did not make any useful post d2, and i feel its really unfair when no one really did so.
I am thinking on the line of who should we lynch that gives us info. VE wagon seemed like a good start to look at, I made 3 pairs who seems to defend each other/attack the same persons. If we lynch anyone from that we can get information about the other half of the pair. This post is so scummy that any veteran player would have been immediately lynched. I was pretty happy to give him the n00b pass, but I don't think that's a good idea. In this post, - he gives himself an excuse for not contributing to the town
- claims that everyone else in the town is useless
- advocates lynching into the VE bandwagon "for information" without indicating who on the bandwagon is scummy
- claims that lynching one half of a pair will somehow magically reveal the alignment of the other half
How gloriously scummy. On April 26 2012 05:21 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 05:10 johnnywup wrote:
Anyone on ottox, vote for either sentinel or Zephirdd. I'm not convinced that ottox can't just be bad. I feel like Scum may be trying to sway to public opinion into a mislynch by voting Ottox. He may be scum, but I think that we have a way better shot hitting scum by lynching either zephirdd or sentinel. .
##unvote:johnnywup
How did we get here? On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote:[...] johnnywupShow nested quote +On April 24 2012 13:12 MidnightGladius wrote:
That said, I still think that you're scum, johnny. You have zeph as your strongest scumread, but refuse to vote for him, and ask for town consensus first, when we've just started the day, and you have the most time to convince others? You have yet to actually push your own scumreads, outside of your earlier sheeping. Your unwillingness to actually put your vote where your voice is very suspicious, and I think that you're trying to gently push for a bandwagon without actually committing. This behavior is just like zeph's list earlier, which is why I'm of the opinion that you're bussing him. I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup
You think Johnny is kinda sorta maybe sheeping because he doesn't give out any strong reads one way or the other (which is, ironically, the same thing that you're doing), and therefore he's scum. So what made you change your mind? On April 26 2012 05:29 Ottoxlol wrote:
Because if he would be scum he wouldn't try to sway ppl from my vote (if zeph or sent is scum). Johnny was sheeping away from you. Hey, isn't that why you wanted to lynch him in the first place? On April 26 2012 05:33 Ottoxlol wrote:
My vote was wasted on him anyways because no one is voting for him. Since I am the vote leader atm, I have to vote for the 2nd guy, even if I feel like someone is more likely to be scum. "Don't blame me if the guy we flip isn't scum, because I'm just voting for not-me." This is such a terribly scummy post, it's not even funny. Mafia pro-tip: vote to lynch scum.
(4) He has completely sheeped on the last two lynches.
+ Show Spoiler +This segues nicely into my next problem with Ottoxlol: His voting patterns. - Day 1: VisceraEyes
- Day 2: Zephridd
- Day 3: MidnightGladius
But why he voted the way he did was much more interesting. His reasons for voting VE have been beaten to death, so I'm not going to discuss it too much here. For voting Zeph: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote:
I have to
##vote Zephirdd
The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait! That doesn't say anything about why he's voting Zeph! You are an astute reader! I can't find it. Ottoxlol has no reason to vote Zeph, other than to sheep with the town. For voting MG: On April 28 2012 07:19 Ottoxlol wrote:BM on MGalso this post Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 14:28 MidnightGladius wrote:
I haven't been giving this game the attention I should, between cohosting, work, and term papers. I can see that my play this game was been really lacking, and I just haven't been feeling my reads. I've been hedging my posts, because I honestly haven't felt the same kind of conviction with my cases.
That said, mislynching me will cost us the game. You're just going to have to trust me. The fact that a bunch of townies have been pushing for me is disheartening, but I'm sure that you will find scum trying to hammer me today. I have no idea why would anyone trust you because you say so. Excuses also doesnt help the scumhunt, I think no one cares about food poisoning or cat funerals. ##vote MidnightGladiusBK started posting some weird stuff, hes voting St. Daniel for ninjavoting, but BM ninjavoted d1 too and he did not mention it at all. ghost and Sentinel doesnt want to engage in the debate of other possibilities then I am a scum. no one can be 100% sure so the discussion must be on even if they vote me, so when I flip green we will have information Another sheeping! "Here's someone else's case I found moderately compelling, and here's something that is kinda scummy." Well, MG flipped green and he's right. We found scum pushing for his lynch today.
Frankly, it's embarassing that the town has let Ottoxlol live this long in the game. As soon as tomorrow hits, I'm voting to lynch him for the third day in a row, and I hope this time, we can get a sucessful lynch and get this scum out of the game.
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##vote ottoxlol
I buy Sentinel's claim, lest someone else would like to counterclaim. Too bad, I was sure ottoxlol was a goon. This means I have to reconsider the whole Risen conspiracy 
It was such an elegant plan.
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So, BM, what makes you think that Risen is a better scum candidate than Ottoxlol?
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@Risen: Goons have to shoot. I was going to suggest that Sentinel does exactly what he suggested.
@everyone else: I'll have time to address everything against me after I get out of class. That should be in about two hours. brb
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Wait, they aren't required to kill at night? How did I miss that?
ghost mutters to himself: idiot.
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Okay, so let's see what terrible things people have been saying about me.
For reference, the case by johnnywup and the case by BroodKingEXE.
Johnny's case against me boils down to four points.
- Soft defending BM and attacking VE
- Kinda-sorta-almost-not really flipflopping on Risen
- Bad case on Sentinel
- Claiming I'm bussing Ottoxlol
All of these points are easily addressed.
- I have a history of defending insane players. (For reference, Aperture mafia and TL LI, soon to be added to my profile. Gotta use that thing for something.) Insane players are statistically not scum, and I see people who push for lynching insane players as scummy. They make the perfect target for the scum to push a mislynch. The perfect example of this is Zealos in TL LI. On Day 2, I asked him who he wanted to lynch. His reply was Kenpachi because he's nuts. That's not scum hunting, and a huge tell that he's not actually looking for scum. (Zealos ended up flipping scum.) However, I almost always advocate vig'ing these players. They are not helping the town, and area huge liability later on in the game, and very dangerous if they are in fact scum. See Bill Murray this game.
As far as attacking VE, I stand by it. VE played exceptionally poorly this game, and deserved to be lynched for what he did. It's regrettable that he flipped blue, but I stand by my decision. If you are playing scummy, I am going to vote to lynch you.
- Here is the post that JW referenced. Here is why I started considering a Risen lynch. What was going on was Risen was claiming that he was against a Marv lynch, while he actually said (in this thread) that he was going to vote for him. His defense was that he didn't actually vote in the voting thread, and somehow this abdicates his responsibility in this situation. In my book, this ranks as scummy-as-hell, and that's why I was considering a Risen lynch. I had forgotten about that incident, thanks for bringing it up. We should lynch Risen tomorrow, after Ottoxlol flips red.
- On Day 1, I wrote a subpar case on a lurking player who had been acting scummy. I regret nothing. Sentinel's play has improved since then, perhaps because I called him out. If Sentinel had continued to do the same thing, that subpar case would have been an excellent starting point for pursuing a lynch.
- Your theory is that I've been bussing my scummate for a week now, non stop, to gain towncred? Well, stranger things have happened. Assuming we both were scum, I think that doing that would be suboptimal at best, but there's really no way to prove that until after we both flip. However, I would like to point out that I have been probably the loudest voice for lynching Ottoxlol for the last week, and I think quite a few people would agree that my case against him is what finally pushed the town over the edge. If I was scum, that sounds like a foolish thing to do.
- Numbah 5, because I love you guys so much <3
My "marv, flip town" post was a direct response to the fact that blzinghand promised to eat his hat should Marv flip town. I have yet to see blzinghand eat his hat. If I were iGrok, I would revive him, then modkill him again for failing to eat his hat.
For BK's post,
- ?????
- ?????
- ?????
- ?????
I don't know what's going on in this post.
- Sentinel got called out for lurking by layabout, and immediately piped up in thread. According to Ver in his Mafia XXX analysis, this is a not terrible scum tell. It tells you that the person is paying attention to the thread, but not contributing, which is scummy. I regret nothing.
As far as VE is scummy we should/shouldn't lynch him: VE was playing scummy, but has enough experience to play a good game as scum. It'd not an easy situation to read. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that what ultimately pushed me over the edge was his roleclaim. He was playing moderately scummy before (strange from a vet), then did something really scummy (strange for anyone), and that's why I voted to lynch him.
- I really don't know what BK was trying to say in response to my next quote. As I said before, immediately delurking the way Sentinel did is a decent scum tell. It's not a bad reason to pursue a lynch Day 1.
- I have a habit of not writing long posts against people, and because of that, no one listens to my lynch suggestions. See TLM LI. I've decided to change that, and it's working a lot better. I don't see this as a contradiction at all.
- I've beaten to death why I thought Sentinel was scummy Day 1. Most of your problems with this relate to confirmation bias. Remember, if I am townie, I had no idea Sentinel was blue/green before today.
- Being gone and busy is not the same as lurking. People who are lurking are avoiding posting in the thread. People who are busy can't post in the thread. I think the fact that I was the latter of those is apparent in the fact that after I made those posts, I was gone for pretty decent chunks of time for the first couple of days in this game.
BK's case against me is a lot of incoherent ramblings (sorry, BK), so I find it difficult to respond to it. If he or anyone else feels I answered it inadequately, feel free to speak up.
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Ugh, that thing is hueg and ugly.
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@BK: In my spreadsheet, I have a column marked "age", where I indicate the relative experience of each player. I had VE marked down as veteran, but after the last three games I've played with him, I think I'm going to move him into the insane category. So, this time I did not, but next time I probably will. That guy is nuts.
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@sent: I would post a link to my sheet, but (1) I'm not sure that's okay with the rules, (2) I have been woefully negligent with it and (3) it's been wrong a lot
My top two town reads are Sentinel and Mattchew. After I FoS'd him Day 1, he really turned his game around. Now, with his claim and lack of counterclaim, I view him as confirmed town. Mattchew's next, since he's been more or less behind me for quite some time now. The thing I find most scummy about him is he's not dead yet. ghost stops to ponder...
Paqman reads null for me at the moment. I have been behind on keeping up on the game for a couple of days now, so I don't have an intelligent opinion on him. Skimming through his filter, I don't see anything too scummy, but tomorrow I'll post some deeper thoughts. Janaan is also null for me, but I always misread Janaan.
BroodKing has struck me as slightly not town, but in a noobie sort of way, so I'll give him a pass. Bill Murray is insane, but I don't like how he doesn't interact with the town even when called out. But, like I've said a couple of times, BM is nuts, so I would hesitate to push a lynch on him.
Risen has done the most scummy things in this game by a wide margin. Just a few of the things I don't like about him include his "say I'll vote someone then don't and pretend like I didn't" and screwing up the Ottoxlol lynch on Day 2. After that, he pretty much dropped out of the game. I don't like his play, and wouldn't hesitate to lynch him.
Johnnywup has not done the most scummy things in this game. That's because he's not done a lot. One incident that sticks out to me in particular is how much he's flipflopped on the Ottoxlol lynch. He's okay with it, he's against it, nevermind let's do it. Take a look at the last couple of pages of his filter. He's all over the place. I don't know if that's par for the course for him, or this is his way of playing scum. After Ottoxlol's flip, I'm going to take a hard look at him and start figuring out exactly which role he rolled.
And Ottoxlol is scum.
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@BK: Before this game, I viewed VE has a veteran player. I have expectations of veteran players to play good games and to not do stupid things. When I see players that I expect to play games that make sense playing games that don't make sense, I start to wonder about their alignments. Claiming JK with no reason is one of those things. I assumed that VE would know better than to roleclaim at such an inopportune time. Good blues don't claim, so I assumed he was lying. Typically scum lie, so I assumed he was scum.
Because of this incident and his play in Aperture Mafia and TLM LI, I'm going to move him into the insane category, which I'm still trying to figure out how to read. I think, from now on, I'll just lynch him when he's making sense.
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So, mattchew, whatchoo think about BM's roleclaim?
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@Risen: What makes you so sure that Ottoxlol is town?
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@johnnywup: If he was not green, don't you think he would have claimed before now? Like right before Risen saved him on Day 2?
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@mattchew: I think we hit pay dirt.
@johnnywup: Your objection to this lynch is noted, but I can't figure out why you're objecting. Mind explaining it to us?
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@JW: Well, if that's the case, I'd say we're still pretty well off. There's a short list of people who voted immediately after the deadline, so it should be pretty easy to figure out who's scum and who's not.
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@johnnywup: You never told any of us why you thought it was a mislynch. Instead, all we got is you standing in the town square screaming "YOU'RE MAKING A MISTAKE". Your claim to have known it was a mislynch means nothing.
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@JW: Bandwagons come early when
A) All the scum jump on board and a few townies follow
B) The decision is completely obvious
I'm assuming that the town opted for (B) yesterday due to the fact that Ottoxlol had been pushed as a lynch candidate since Day 2, and I posted a case against him which no one save Ottoxlol himself disagreed with.
If you had come back saying "Your case against him is wrong" or "Look, this is totally townie" or any kind of evidence based claim whatsoever, I would be inclined to give credence to your claim.
Instead, you came back with "I had a gut feeling".
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EPT
