EPTCalling meta change before I get my role: Will try to make shorter posts than in previous games, get rid of over-aggressive play.
Newbie Mini Mafia IX
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BlueyD
Canada437 Posts
Calling meta change before I get my role: Will try to make shorter posts than in previous games, get rid of over-aggressive play. | ||
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BlueyD
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BlueyD
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- Day 1, I'll lynch a lurker unless there's good info out. - I've seen 2 games where people jump on the village idiot for their lynches and they're never scum. They're just bad. They're also 1 less townie in the game and 1 waste of a lynch, that helps scum more than us. I want to add something to Nova's 1st post (play together as a team) as well: Playing with the team does not mean bandwagoning like a sheep. Do your own analysis, and if you think you have a better case than what's being discussed then POST IT. | ||
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BlueyD
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--- To oneplus: Just 2 questions aimed at you to show you why 1. saying no-lynch is bad, and 2. having a leader is very bad. 1. How do we pressure scum D1 if we agree to no-lynch? 2. What if the ‘town leader’ who makes the decisions for you is actually scum? --- era was very active last game, though more in terms of quantity than in terms of quality. Haven’t seen him post since the start of this game yet, though, so my first vote goes to him. ##Vote:era | ||
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##Vote: oneplus We lost too much time and space arguing about lynch vs no-lynch already. We have to lynch, and that’s it. Enough about policy, now let’s look at people. --- Specifically, the people who sided for a no-lynch, or 'not against'. On therapist: His stance seems to me like an overreaction to last game, but at least there was a developed thought process behind it. Needs to let go of policy discussion and contribute on analyzing people now, though. On oneplus: Asked for a no-lynch in his one and only post, and he’s inactive as well... Can’t read more into him until he posts again. On Solohan: Was already enquiring about the possibility of a no-lynch before he knew his role, so I’m inclined to say he actually thinks no-lynch is a move a town should consider seriously, which makes him... bad. --- On Daymor: In chronological order... It seems I agree with the majority in terms of accepting a lynch on a lurker. A little precision right after, nothing wrong with it: (...) acceptance of a lurker lynch of obviously conditioned on the fact that there are no other suspects out there. No-lynch is talked about a bunch, he seems to think it would be ok: If a no lynch is even possible I don't think it is a terrible outcome (…) And then, he ‘clarifies’ and no-lynch goes from ok to good: To clarify, I would prefer to No Lynch if that is an available option, (…) Now that’s more interesting. This guy’s opinion managed to go from “lurker lynch” to “no-lynch ok” to “no-lynch preferable”. That’s the wrong direction for a townie entirely. | ||
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BlueyD
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Might be his poor English preventing him from explaining by himself earlier, but I would have liked him to try. Right now we don’t know what he was really thinking when he started pushing. The second language excuse could be entirely true, or it could mostly be convenient. Still he’s active and not particularly scummy, so I’ll take my vote off of him. ##Unvote --- On Nova_Terra : To me he looks like a guy who’s not worrying at all about his own safety, which is more of a town element than a scum element. - I don’t think we can read anything from “Okay, thank god, not mafia :D”. Guy has been scum 2/3 times. Unnecessary but not inconsistent with being town. - Calling Solo scummy with no explanation: Sounds more like a careless townie move than a scum move to me. Scum are paranoid about getting caught and make cases carefully. I think it was stupid to expect Solo to accuse himself and I also think Nova’s case was weak, but it reads more like bad town than scum to me. - Voting behavior: Spammy, but not scummy. His meta can be described as “hyperactive” as both scum and town so he really doesn’t need that voting stuff to help him look active. Done with no consideration of the fact that this might make him suspect. Nova knows how to not be a target (see both games as scum where he lasted to the end), so why isn’t he doing it this time? It could simply be that he’s scum and he’s failing really, really hard this time… or it could be that he’s town and scumhunting, not surviving, is his #1 priority. Not convinced by the case on him. --- ##Vote: TheRavensName Lurker lynch, in the absence of a really good case. Macheji is less active but he doesn’t seem to be here at all... He might be modkilled/replaced. By contrast, TheRavensName has showed up at different times of the day, but only has a bunch of short posts with zero analysis to show for it. | ||
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BlueyD
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I'll keep the vote on you for now, though. You posted opinions but not justifications. | ||
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BlueyD
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##Nova_Terra: Pure_SC2, SoloHan50, Daymor, oneplus ##oneplus: Lazermonkey, TheRavensName, Therapist, Nova_Terra, BlueyD ##Crossfire99: Lorant ##Not voting: Macheji, Crossfire99 Oh yeah, I put myself on oneplus because... ##Vote: oneplus It's between Nova and oneplus, it's useless for me to keep my vote on anyone else, and I've got more suspicions one oneplus than Nova. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: oneplus | ||
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Seriously though Nova, stop cluttering up the thread. You've got 6 posts in a row somewhere in there, and that's just wrong. | ||
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macheji VOTE NOW or you get modkilled in 3 minutes! | ||
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On April 17 2012 06:06 risk.nuke wrote: I might have messed up the deadline, it's not supposed to be untill 1 hour and 50 minutes ... | ||
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Time cycle rules: Deadline is now. Currently the deadline is 17:00 EDT (-04:00), but that is subject to change. Day 1 post: Deadline is in 2:50, at 8KST (you have to count it yourself) On April 14 2012 22:33 risk.nuke wrote: The Day ends in approximatly 57.5 hours. And just now: I might have messed up the deadline, it's not supposed to be untill 1 hour and 50 minutes WTF GM. :-p | ||
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BlueyD
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macheji said: (about nova) More than this, i saw a post in wich he said ( correct me if i'm wrong here, i went thru everything kinda fast ), that in the last game he got killed for beeing to silent as a mafia. Yeah, you did read wrong. Nova is a spammer, both as town (his first game) and as scum (last 2 games), so I really doubt he said that. --- To Nova_Terra: I noticed something while reading through the last few hours of the thread, and it has to do with your reaction when macheji appeared 4 minutes before what we both thought was the deadline. Context: macheji has not yet voted, and will surely get modkilled during the quickly approaching nightpost. Just compare my reaction… On April 17 2012 05:57 BlueyD wrote: O_o macheji VOTE NOW or you get modkilled in 3 minutes! To yours: On April 17 2012 05:58 Nova_Terra wrote: Beauuuuutiful timing my macheji. a modkill now would suck. It surprises me that your post lacks the urgency of mine. In your mind he’s got 2 minutes to vote and not get modkilled, and yet you’re not urging him to vote. I was panicking there and just hoping he’d hurry up and vote already and not just die stupidly on us. But you’re just... happy he’s there? He’s not exactly saved yet and you’re making no effort to keep him alive. Care to explain? | ||
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BlueyD
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I'll be there at deadline to post my thoughts as requested by Lorant. Hopefully I'll have some time before then to take a good look at a few people. | ||
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Nova said: As soon as i saw Macheji post, i immediately assumed he was voting. then when i realized he wasnt, i stratee getting more woreied, which my other posts refect. 1. Macheji hadn’t voted, surely you saw that, so I can only imagine your post means “I thought he’d vote really soon.” 2. I'll read the chat and make a vote, if i have time maybe i'll also try to make a case agaist someone if i see fit. 4 minutes to read the thread and vote, and he was considering maybe making a case? The guy had no idea that the lynch was (we thought) so close. “I’ll vote really soon” was obviously not in his list of priorities, and I can't see how you would think it was. Let's just ask him: To macheji: When did you think the lynch was before you read “vote now!” in the thread? 3. Back to Nova, whose more worried posts share one particularity: They both happen after what we thought was the deadline, when votes are typically not counted anymore. That’s not a convincing reason to me at all. Sounds a bit scummy to me. On Lazer and Nova: Suspicious of both at this point, probably at LEAST one scum between the two. Not sold on both being scum though, I think there’s a good possibility of scum + fool buddy here – I say we look to see if 1 the 2 was trying to buddy up with the other before the connection was pointed out, and lynch that one first. Town don’t try to buddy up because they don’t want to fall on a scum. Scum know their buddy is town. I wanted to read both filters and compare but I gave up for the moment, didn’t have this much time this afternoon. STOP SPAMMING NOVA. You have 6 pages of posts already… -_- On Daymor: On the good side, he’s contributing, but I’m not a big fan of how he changed his stance on both lynch vs no-lynch and Nova vs oneplus, though he did have reasons that don’t seem too far-fetched both times. I’m going to say cautiously leaning town for now, but if I die you guys have to watch for more flip-flops as I’m doing now and see if they mean anything. To Lorant:Council is stupid or scummy, I don’t see the point in it, I don’t see the point in even talking about it besides wasting space. It can’t make people more logical than now, it can only make them more sheepish. You need to tell us why you feel Pure is scummy, by the way. ‘Gut feeling’ won’t do. A lot of good stuff in Pure’s and Daymor’s posts already, so I tried to go where they didn’t. Gotta go right after the flip if I want to catch the next bus back home, will see if I can analyze some more later tonight. | ||
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BlueyD
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- Nova is the first of the Nova-Lazer pair to agree to lurker lynch - Nova is the first to call Solo scummy - Nova has his vote on macheji when Lazer puts his on the same player - Nova asks Solohan to find his own suspicious behavior, Lazer says Solo should respond - When oneplus calls them out, Lazer is the one who first turns on the other. These aren’t really buddies. This is Lazer trying to ride on Nova’s wave, and he gets off the wave right as Nova gets suspicious in some people’s eyes. This is not something we can really hold against Nova in my opinion. This is certainly something that makes Lazer suspicious. ---------- Just… Wow, Lorant…After you made a big deal about Nova “betraying the trust” of oneplus and being unfit as leader and trying to take the aforementioned leadership for a 4 man council handpicked by you, you post a joke end-of-night post. I don’t know what to make of this. Looks a bit scummy to me, but on the other hand, that post is such a joke… It’s too easy. You even bring up the stupid council-of-4 again after people have attacked you for it. Please stop fooling around and play the game. Defend yourself. 1. I’ll ask you to explain why you left us nothing (not even a quick list of reads) in case of your death, and I’ll ask you what your current scumreads are. 2. Also, in case it got buried, I’ll say it again: I’d also like you to explain why you flagged Pure_SC2 as scum. I mean, reasons other than ‘your gut’. ---------- To Daynor: That’s an interesting suggestion. We do have a lurker problem, but I think your solution is too radical unless we can get a really good case on a lurker. I remind you, that if we mislynch we’re at 5vs3 (MYLO) tomorrow, and with mandatory lynching MYLO is essentially the same as LYLO. I think we should concentrate on getting the most scummy person now that we have a lot of info out. I also do think we should start making cases on our less active players. I will do that tomorrow, for now I have to sleep. | ||
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BlueyD
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To Daymor: History of my read on Nova, since you asked. - Leaning town at the start for reasons already mentioned - A few of his actions near the vote seemed dumb or scummy: 6 posts in a row, lack of urgency as macheji was about to be lynched, telling the docs what to do at night. Nova gained a few scumpoints there. - I also thought the Lazer case was good at that point, but I figured it would be really dumb for Lazer and Nova to band together so close if both are scum. Realized this line of thought wasn’t very useful because it could be WIFOMed. - I then decided it was better to see if this was partnership or leader-follower instead of WIFOMing. I found out Nova had his own opinions and Lazer was the parasite here. This means Nova is not to be faulted for the connection between those 2, Lazer is. So at the moment, I would again say Nova is more likely to be town than scum. Nova is not a lynch target for me at the moment. Lazer, though, is very suspicious. --- Lorant has dodged my question of why he thought Pure was scum, other than ‘gut feeling’. I want that question answered. I really, really want that question answered. | ||
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See Pure’s case and my own comments on Lazer, this case need not be remade. This is the scum I’m most sure of, and so... ##Vote: Lazermonkey I’ll concentrate on sniffing out the remaining 2 scum. Here’s a case for you: --- Lorant’s play is just insane, and apparently that’s his metagame… But it also contradicts itself. [about Nova and Lazer vs oneplus] (…) he lost respect and became an easy target, mainly due to your lack of responsibility, he regarded you as a leader and broke his trust and tried to rape his self-esteem. That's why I don't want you to be considered a leader anymore. No alliance, especially not exclusively against you, just a leadership conglomerate. But then… (…) Personally I think Pure-Sc2 is scummy (…) 1. About the statement. I meant to troll. There's no reason to hide my true nature now that it's clear I'm FourFace. Bolded parts for emphasis. Let’s break this down: Leadership shouldn’t be in the hands of Nova the trustbreaker. It should go to a council on which one is himself (the guy who gets us all to post analysis 2 minutes before the end but trolls town with a jokepost himself – also a breach of trust) and one is someone whom he thinks is scummy. We have here a man full of contradictions. Lorant’s case on Pure is bad, by the way: - It is usually true that games with ##No Lynch mention the option in the rules, and I don’t think Pure can be faulted for thinking that no mention in the rules = option is not there, even if that was not clear to others. He was right, by the way. - The nightposting thing I’m not sure of. We didn’t really discuss the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the night mostly silent; we just did it when Lorant suggested it (Pure included, he did hold back a lot of info), and it might have been a bad move after all. In my other games we just posted at night with no fear and there sure was more information going around. This actually might be a part of why some people lurked – didn’t want to post because there was a town agreement not to, but couldn’t be there at dawn so didn’t post much or at all. - The rest is his gut feeling again, and fear. He’s not making a case saying “this is the most likely scenario”, he’s making a case saying “this is the worst case I can think of.” This is not how people who want to catch scum think. --- Remains the third L – the Lurker. That would be either Solohan50, Macheji, Therapist or TheRavensName. Hard to tell which, though. I’ll consider Daymor’s case for tonight: For Daymor, on Macheji: Interesting case. The first 2 posts you point out do seem scummy/bad, 3rd post sounded to me more like “I don’t know how to use my time efficiently” and is mostly newbish. On the long post: I did note he had a ++ on therapist which seemed weird to me – therapist is a major lurker right now and there’s no particular reason to see him as townie. I also noted he gave a ++ to crossfire and said he didn’t know of the death at the time of writing – that’s dubious, since he sure knew about the death when he wrote “I didn’t know about the death” – so why give us an outdated read instead of a current read on why he was killed? That’s not helpful. On your “alarm bells”, I liked the first, not the second. Here’s my interpretation of that one: (...) Also when Oneplus attacks him in one post he says he is not impressed... he's not impressed of what ? When someone innocent is beeing accused of something, does it ever occure to him to say that he is not impressed with the case against him ? (...) It reads better as “imagine an innocent, would he act like this?”, with the answer likely being “no” in Macheji’s mind. Note that as the guy who dismissed a case with "LOL" last game, I don't agree with macheji's opinion here. | ||
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BlueyD
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- I did call meta change before I got my role. If I took a big step back, it’s because my first 2 games had me attacking all over the place, causing unintentional chaos, and being the juiciest target at LYLO both times, which led to scum victories (though I was never lynched after all, but no one would listen to me). - A lurker getting modkilled is worse than a lurker getting lynched because you can get information off of the lynch from where people’s votes went. With a modkill you just lose a player for no reason. - There is a big difference between ‘arguing for and against no-lynch’, and ‘looking at people’s behavior surrounding said issue’. I note that Nova’s case on Solohan relied a lot on said ‘behavior surrounding the issue’, so I don’t see why me commenting on it is scummy. I did focus my analysis on one side of the aisle because that’s the side I thought to be most suspicious, but I did not argue for or against nolynch, which is the real waste of time. - Real life reasons right now keep me from being here at day apart from lunchtime, and my day is when the majority of player seems to be active. I still try to get out at least a good post at lunchtime and another at night. - I will remind town I did not only defend Nova; I also attacked him for the macheji modkill stuff. I don’t think I can be accused of stroking his ego with that post, can I? - As for Nova’s assertion that I don’t say which of Lazer or he is scum at the daybreak post, I note that I did provide a hint as to how town should find out. I simply didn’t have time to carry that analysis out right there, but I later returned and did exactly what I said should be done. I should not be blamed for doing exactly what I said I would do to judge who of Lazer and Nova was most likely to be scum. - Me asking Lorant for his case on Pure should not be suspicious at all given that he mentioned Pure being scummy in passing, with zero analysis, and Pure was and is my best townread (for logical argumentation and pushing the right person). - My last post’s ‘defense of Pure’ is to be read mostly as an attack on Lorant, whose case was utterly unconvincing and made in a spirit of ‘what could be the worst possible scenario’ – and worst case scenarios are unlikely to actually be true and more likely to lead to a townie lynch, so I’m inclined to think of people who post them as scummy. - Thinking there is a scum among the lurkers is not the same as advocating a lurker lynch. I even put a vote on Lazermonkey in the same post, so this accusation by Nova is entirely silly, unless of course he means I’m scummy because I would eventually lynch a lurker... I note Nova also thinks there’s a lurker in the scumteam and presumably he wants to lynch him at some point, so why am I being called scummy for this? This is the same behavior as mine. My lunchtime is over, someone look into the Nova-Lazer connection as seen in the last few hours, Nova seems to be defending Lazer now. | ||
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BlueyD
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Therapist’s vote is suspicious. Guy gives the stupidest reason for a vote I’ve ever seen, and the timing just happens to be 30 minutes before day ends? His past posts had no real analysis in them, it’s a bunch of talk about lynch vs no lynch day 1 and then nothing of substance. If we lynch a lurker, it should be this one. I want to turn to our friendly neighbourhood Daymor for a second, to point out that after going from “lurker lynch” to “no lynch” day 1, his call on day 2… was “lurker lynch” again! It’s true that we had a massive lurker problem on day 2, but that wasn’t less true on day 1. On the plus side, it did get macheji to post. But I’m seeing another advantage for Daymor himself here: He gets to delay his real vote until he sees where the wagons go. His strange lurker list at the very start of day 2 where, in a very questionable read, therapist did not get placed in the top category: Lurking particularly badly - Macheji - Solohan50 Lurking but posting enough to get by - Therapist - TheRavensName Contributing, but want more - BlueyD - Lorant The case on macheji: I’ll note this contradiction by Daymor: I would be happy to lynch Macheji based off this information as between not contributing and the alarm bells in regards to his case against Nova_Terra I feel comfortable enough sticking with it. But afterwards, he backs off (admittedly after Macheji contributes) and says his case was not worthy after all: Macheji is not my strongest scum read, nor do I believe the case was strong enough to lead a lynch, so I do plan on ending the day with my vote on someone else. Note he does not switch his vote off immediately to either another lurker or a more supported case. That takes another 11 hours. Daymor’s vote was also the safety vote on Lazer, which helped keep Pure alive, but I don’t know if that has any significance. Anyway I think it’s possible we have a Daymor-Therapist duo here. Don’t know who would be the third yet. --- I cannot be here sunday afternoon due to a large student protest and will in all likelihood not be back at my computer in time for the vote, so I’ll have to put a vote I’m comfortable with as my final vote Sunday morning, at most. I should be here most of saturday, though. | ||
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Okay Nova, will wait for your explanation for cop tomorrow. | ||
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- I had to call ALL the shots and plans and barely had time for my own stuff. I don't think the other 2 guys told me "no, that's a bad idea" once. :-/ - therapist, from the beginning, DID NOT CARE and he should probably have been replaced. the plan had him as the guy on the other side of the table, but he didn't even keep up with the thread and his last votepost was just stupid - with solohan also getting to the "don't care" phase and telling me he wasn't going to play this out, this game was over and my death was in vain - I had time to keep up with the thread at work and make small posts in the QT, not much time to do bigger posts in the real thread - I planned to claim jailkeeper (had a breadcrumb) but learned afterwards that people who get roleblocked (and, I imagine, those who get jailkept) apparently get PMed "you got roleblocked!" even if that had no impact on the outcome. Question to veterans: Is this normal procedure? | ||
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Taking a break from mafia, might play some more when I have a less busy week or 2, lynching 4F day 1 if I do. :-) | ||
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