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On April 01 2012 08:32 FourFace wrote:
I choose to imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger's/Thor's voice talking while I read KB's posts :>
This just made my day.
What is best in life? To be right in a scum vote, to see them flip before you, and to hear the lamentations of their buddies!
Re-engage serious mode:
On April 01 2012 11:26 FourFace wrote:
3. In this game it would be awesome to have a Veterinary Medicine College Dropout Aquarium Cleaning Guy who has all the reasons to hate Radfield (see I can spell your name correctly if i please) due to the unrewarding physical labor and shitty wage and who is suspected to have gotten promised a nice sum of cash if he partners up with Cephiro because the note kind of resembles his handwriting. He knows how to tranquilize the animals so he would be perfect for the job but everyone knows him as a stand up guy who wouldn't tell a lie and he claims his innocence so he's town. But he's also scum who succumbed to the temptation of easy cash. How come? He has two personalities who function independently of one another day/night.. therefore he's played by two players sharing the account. The replacement can use the original player's account logging in with a temporary password as soon as nighttime falls up until dawn and is a fully pledged member of the scum faction and thus has access to the scumQT.
Really? In a newbie game? Imagine someone playing this game for the first time and getting to be the Veterinary Medicine College Dropout Aquarium Cleaning Guy. He reads his PM and goes "WHAT??? How does my role even work?"
Also remember that the player has to give up his account temporarily and completely trust another player (who? How is that determined?) with his account for each night. The other guy could easily get him banned for some completely unrelated reason, and no one can prove it was him.
ALSO, how do you prevent the day player from logging on at night? He has to set the password for the night player, so he can log onto his account anyway and post at night with his normal personality (He doesn't get access to the QT though).
The same thoughts apply to the prime evils in your Diablo II game setup (Note that I haven't got anything against a Diablo II setup from a flavour standpoint, I would instantly join such a game if it gets hosted): One does not simply Destroy A Whole Forum Page (not even temporarily). And planting a post on a player, while more doable than the role described above, is nothing I would want in my game either.
I hope you think a bit more about your roles if you ever get to host a game.
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On April 01 2012 22:07 FourFace wrote:
I think lynching HiroPro would give the most info. If Kohbee stays firm on his vote and he flips scum Kohbee is confirmed town and Therapist is very suspicious. If he flips town we got nothing whatsoever
If that is the move that gives us "the most information", we're in a pretty bad situation. With a 2/9 probability (if he flips scum), it tells us that Therapist might also be scum. Otherwise it does exactly nothing.
If Kohbee gets lynched and flips town, we have essentially gained no information because it says absolutely nothing about the alignment of HiroPro, and the tell against Therapist is pretty weak even then. If he is scum, then HiroPro is either his buddy and he tried to gambit, or he played standard and HiroPro is a townie, so no real gain here either. (Don't lynch Kohbee).
Lynching Therapist: If he's scum, there is at least a higher-than-average chance that either Kohbee or HiroPro is scum (he could try to gambit or he could defend his buddy), but in the case he's town we're looking pretty stupid again.
Our problem is that we have a (6/8)³ = 42% chance (from each townie's point of view) that none of those three is scum whatsoever. That is pretty high, and we can't really afford to act as if we know there is a scum player within them, because we don't.
I would rather look at a lurker lynch for today, because then at least our efficiency as a town goes up if it hits a townie.
Look at Solohan50's and omnomMuffins's filters: They're completely devoid of any discussion whatsoever. At least omnomMuffins explains it. On March 30 2012 05:40 omnomMuffins wrote:I will be sporadic until Monday, but then I can start really really reading 
So,
##Vote: Solohan50
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If you don't expect something useful from the lurkers, why not lynch them? If they're scum it's a victory, and if they're town we don't lose much discussion power.
Aside note: I'm going to be an a LAN party until Tuesday. I can't exactly say how much I will be posting from there because I will be preoccupied with gaming, but I'll try my best.
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On April 02 2012 00:07 FourFace wrote:
That is the weirdest excuse to prepare for lurking. Do you have internet at your Lan party? You want me to believe you can't take a 5 minute break and maybe show other people how cool tl mafia is? I find that so weird. I it something official that I can look up somewhere or is it just conveniently between friends?
It's not lurking, I'm just saying that I might take longer to react that otherwise (case in point: this post).
On April 02 2012 01:50 omnomMuffins wrote:
Sorry for being a forum noob again.......... EBWOP?
It means Edit By Way Of [double] Post. Because editing is forbidden in Mafia games (so that you can't "retcon" your posts), you have to correct yourself by doubleposting, which is not discouraged in this forum.
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On April 02 2012 03:37 HiroPro wrote:
Of the two lurkers (Solohan50 and omnomMuffins), the case against omnomMuffins is stronger because of the extremely illogical vote. Marvellosity is also possibly mafia.
I don't think his vote on FourFace is necessarily a big scumtell. While I don't agree with it, I definitely recognize how he could be seen as annoying enough not to want him in the game anymore. Also, FourFace isn't the most consistent player out there. All in all, that's a slight scumtell there but nothing that really warrants a vote in my eyes.
Solohan50 on the other hand hasn't posted at all since his first flavour post, and has given us no excuse as to why, so even if he is town a lynch on him is not a very big loss. Lynching the lurkiest player is the most risk-free strategy in our situation, I think.
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No worry, he just ninja'd three of you and gave an actual reason for his "lurking", which in reality was him being stranded in the desert.
##unvote
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On April 02 2012 04:30 FourFace wrote:
So, what do you have now.. what's your research .. where are your leads. You don't have anything. That's just sterling KB, awesome.
I didn't say I don't have anything. But I hadn't made a complete list of people ordering them by scumminess, I just had a "most viable" lynch in mind. Now that he has given a reason for him not receiving today's lynch, I' reconsidering. And excuse me if I don't instantly give away all my leads, because Mafia can operate on that. I will read the filters again and come up with someone better to vote.
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On April 02 2012 04:51 FourFace wrote:
FourFace: meh, you got nothing on me. But if you get something try not to talk gibberish and explain every aspect of your allegations like you're telling it to an alien from K-Pax. Saying stuff like I'm not consistent and that's a minor scumtell is just driving me nuts because I have to think for the guy who accused me.
Wait what? Are you accusing yourself? Or are you talking to me?
And yes that's right, I got nothing on you. But not a strong town read either. It's entirely possible that a scum wants to get himself into the leading position of the town (I did this in one game IRL and it worked great). Also, your aggressive behaviour makes constructive argumentation not exactly easier.
Now to some other things: At the moment I'm leaning Therapist, because he still hasn't gone off his Kohbee vote yet, whom I have marked as pretty townish in my mind.
Kohbee: You stated that marvellosity and strongandbig are good vote targets. Care to elaborate?
##Vote: Therapist
This is not final yet, but I am too distracted to 100% think right now (LAN party -.-)
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If there's another blue in town he can still be protected.
If anyone else is ready to take his vote off Kohbee, I'm ready to follow unless I really don't agree with the new vote.
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note that my vote is already not on Kohbee
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On April 02 2012 08:46 Therapist. wrote:
This is my first game of mafia after all. If you're a townie, I'll take a good lesson from this for the future.
FourFace, Solohan50 and strongandbig: There is still the possibility of switching your vote to Therapist.
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ebwop: holy shit this bandwagon is fast
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Can we please wait for the night to develop before we get deeper into analysis here? If there is a medic or jailkeeper, they will probably know what to do by now. When we have the additional information of who did or did not get nightkilled this may well be quite a bit easier to understand.
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...does the Mafia want us to actually have a chance in this game?
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The Eternal Flame Wars, Chapter 2: Kohbee vs omnomMuffins
Seriously: Just a few minutes after the passing away of FourFace, active participator in the greatest flame war to date, you two start a new one-on-one where you both accuse each other of being scum and no real information is gained in any way because this is something town and scum would do equally as likely in this case.
I may be an obvious newbie to this game, but even I know a fruitless discussion if I see one, and this seems to be Exhibit A right here. This hurts me especially coming from Kohbee whom, before his blue claim, I viewed as a really intelligent player who got himself in a mess because he wanted to start Day 1 discussion and made the mistake of saying "I'm not talking to scum".
Also I understand now why the newbie games have the reputation of being cursed with scum winning every game after the first one: These games get played by people who haven't yet properly learned how to react to an accusation by another player in a forum (I include myself in that list). The reason this is important is that the ensuing discussions take pages and pages of thread and bury actual signal (reads and analysis) under tons of noise (I understand that this is also a "noise" post, but it at least attempts to lower the overall noise level going into the futire.
After that reminder about basic forum etiquette that I deemed necessary at this point, I want to restate that I have null reads on both the participants in this verbal battle, seeing as their arguments are based around - omnomMuffins "lurking" where in reality he has real evidence about him being in a tournament at the time and
- Kohbee not realising this and calling omnomMuffins out on it.
"Edit" before actually posting:
Naturally, while I was occupied writing this up, a whole lot of posts has occurred where people have gotten more civilised altogether, making my wall of text less important. I will however still put this out there as a reminder for everyone to refer to if such a discussion starts up again (not very unlikely in my eyes).
Also, response to a post from this timespan that seemed important to me:
On April 03 2012 09:48 omnomMuffins wrote:
Well crap, how smart would it be to claim cop in a game without a cop?
That would be freaking brilliant!
Keep in mind that a non-cop doesn't know whether a cop exists in the actual setup, so it's a 50-50 chance for him not to rightfully get counterclaimed. (Still worth doing if the alternative is getting lynched, but not as brilliant as when you know there's no cop in the game.)
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I admit that I have been angering myself too much about the state of this thread to actually come up with any reads. Add to this the fact that it's 3 AM for me right now and I'm really tired, and I'll probably need another half of an ingame day to come up with anything.
I have however noticed that Solohan50 has continued to write very little since he was called out on lurking once and defending himself against it. The things he did write in that period consistently involve cases on Kohbee and nothing else.
If one were to jump to conclusions, one could say that Solohan50 saw Kohbee's claim knowing he's not scum and wanted the lynch to stay on the blue target.
On the other hand, it doesn't make as much sense for Solohan50 to have as strong a suspicion of Kohbee as it shows up in his filter.
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The roleblock on Kohbee could also come from a Jailkeeper who wanted to protect him because a doctor is an asset to keep around / keep him from killing someone if he was mafia. Just throwing that out there, I'm far from convinced he's town though.
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On April 04 2012 06:11 Kohbee wrote:
why include the part about him being flat out stupid if it has nothing to do with the definition of the term. You are back peddling, I read the entire post.
Maybe he calls him flat out stupid because Albert actually plays flat out stupid?
I don't know that player but seeing as he claims cop every game it's definitely a possibility?
Kohbee, I don't like to repeat myself but you seemed rather intelligent at the start of the game, and ever since your claim that sense of intelligence I'm getting from you has started to decline, reaching a temporary low just now. If you want to be the new FourFace, so be it, but prepare to get lynched right here and now.
Please do yourself and town a favor and prove to us that you can actually provide helpful content instead of pages of The Eternal Flame War Extended Edition. It might get you enough cred with the other players that they rethink their scum reads on you, but at the moment you certainly don't look particularly pro-town.
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On April 04 2012 06:47 Kohbee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 06:20 KharadBanar wrote:On April 04 2012 06:11 Kohbee wrote:
why include the part about him being flat out stupid if it has nothing to do with the definition of the term. You are back peddling, I read the entire post. Maybe he calls him flat out stupid because Albert actually plays flat out stupid? I don't know that player but seeing as he claims cop every game it's definitely a possibility? Kohbee, I don't like to repeat myself but you seemed rather intelligent at the start of the game, and ever since your claim that sense of intelligence I'm getting from you has started to decline, reaching a temporary low just now. If you want to be the new FourFace, so be it, but prepare to get lynched right here and now. Please do yourself and town a favor and prove to us that you can actually provide helpful content instead of pages of The Eternal Flame War Extended Edition. It might get you enough cred with the other players that they rethink their scum reads on you, but at the moment you certainly don't look particularly pro-town. So if omnom flips scum, will i still look less intelligent to you?
The question here is if you get enough people to believe you. If he actually flips scum, I'll grant you that you called it, but right now I'm far from convinced that he will. At least he seems to understand that an extended discussion
The same applies the other way around: If you die at some point (seems more probable at this point than omnomMuffins dying) and flip scum, then I'll strongly believe omnomMuffins to be town, because scumbuddies probably won't go to such lenghts as to fake a flame war between each other.
Also, there is still the distinct possibility of you both being town, in which case the whole consideration is pretty moot anyway.
If you keep prolonging this discussion any further without saying something truly new, I'm tempted to vote you even if you're the cop because your ability will be pretty useless when constantly roleblocked and you at this point really act as a liability to town. Enough of that.
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On April 04 2012 08:53 Kohbee wrote:
Who I would like to hear from
KB - opinions on solohan, hiropro and marvel
Now that's getting somewhere. Nice to see you actually putting some effort into coordinating people
My opinions for you, sir:
I honestly haven't thought all that much about HiroPro yet, but after some reading he sounds like someone who puts a good amount of quality control into his posts and only contributes if there is something sensible/new to say, which I at times missed among other participants of this game, but his self-limitation goes not too far into the luking direction, so there's definitely some town vibes in there. Also appreciates some of my posting, but that's no towntell but a personal matter
On marvellosity I have a null read overall, the reason for this being that he doesn't behave like obvious scum (obvious scum being lurking, posting bad reads etc.) but not like obvious town either. If he happens to be scum, my gut instinct would suspect his buddy to be you, because he basically saved you in the Great Voting Craze™ by putting Therapist up one vote. This doesn't make him scum automatically though because I had basically exactly the same thought processes up to this point, believing Therapist to be one of the most scummy persons around. (And I'm a townie, right? )
My view on Solohan50 has not changed since the last time I wrote about it. Reading his filter (which is easy, since it's the shortest of all) I found his case on you less than compelling to say the least (It centers on your vote cast in the very beginning of the game). Add to that the fact that he refused to take the vote off of you in the Great Voting Craze™ and it could well be that there's a scum member wanting to finish a blue somewhere in there. Either that, or he's a very zealous townie which could backfire in other lynch votes later on. The only case I'm really excluding from my considerations there is that you are both scum, because he could have easily changed his vote around during that mess and therefore made sure to get a townie with it. This was however worked out by FourFace before, I just now caught that while re-reading the thread.
On April 02 2012 21:57 FourFace wrote:
7-10 minutes before the lynch my brain worked out this genuinely true piece of information judging by the constellation of the votes:
Kohbee&Solohan50
Kohbee&strongandbig
Kohbee&Therapist
.. can't possibly be THE scumpair.
This means that you actually have a slight town read in my book, believe it or not. However, nothing is confirmed just yet and all my opinions are subject to change if someone objects in an eloquent and non-scummy manner.
tl;dr: ##Vote: Solohan50
P.S.
After finishing up this tremendous wall of text, I would invite omnomMuffins along to join our discussion as it finally has gotten the chance to get a little more civilised and the chance to get hit by randomly flying accusations has slightly lowered.
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EPT
