|
On March 17 2012 09:12 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 08:55 gonzaw wrote:
If the scum team is in fact the Sleeper agent, then they can't communicate with each other, so how can they plan this "ploy" you are speaking off?
If Drazerk was SA, he didn't know VE was SA as well, so he didn't know he could make this ploy.
Maybe he would have hit a townie, and his whole plan would go down the drain. I assume there is also a 'standard' scum family out there, due to VE flipping black instead of red. Having just 4 sleeper agents in a 31 person game seems pretty ridiculous to me... but we'll see. Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 08:56 Jayjay54 wrote:
why can't you see that? maybe he is compulsive and the early kill unbinds him from any possibilities. cell agent have a prob 80-90 % chance to NOT kill other agents.
there's no way we can rule out that this is the other way round and he is a freaking unlucky cell and is now pissed that their shared shadowbender flavour is revealed.
I can picture a combination like "has been killed by shadow and fire", "shadow + x" or whatever, you get the idea.
I am not saying, it is that way, but the coindidence is quite great in the matching flavour. You run the risk of bumping off one of your teammates for the gain of what? killing a townie and bringing the rest of the town down on you. Its always a possibility, but its not a shot I would take. Regardless, speculating about Drazerks alignment over this one action is not going to result in much. Lets let his actions in the coming day or two tell the tale.
How do you know there's just 4 and not 9 cell agents? Random assumption? Whatever these alignment speculations don't get us anywhere...
I am just pointing out the flavour so it is noticed. Again, kill can be compulsive or he looks for an item. We don't know shit. But you're right, it's way too early to claim an alignment here. Still, this deserves an entry in every spreadsheet.
|
On March 17 2012 09:19 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 09:16 Jayjay54 wrote:
How do you know there's just 4 and not 9 cell agents? Random assumption? Whatever these alignment speculations don't get us anywhere...
I am just pointing out the flavour so it is noticed. Again, kill can be compulsive or he looks for an item. We don't know shit. But you're right, it's way too early to claim an alignment here. Still, this deserves an entry in every spreadsheet. Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 08:19 GreYMisT wrote:
Cell Agent Melichor the Endesleid, the Shadowsinger, (VisceraEyes), Was Consumed by Shadow and Flame!
Role PM: Welcome to Aperture Mafia! You are Melichor the Endesleid, a Shadowsinger. Every night you may visit a player and wrap reality around them, inverting effects that target the player. What this means is that medic protects will kill them, detective checks will return the opposite alignment, kp will protect, etc. You are also a member of the Sleeper Cell . You do not know the other 3 members, however you do know a Cell leader is in this game, and you may receive messages from him during the day or night phase. Your win condition is for the Cell to outnumber the remaining players in the game. I was blessed with the ability to read. =)
Uh, thanks for pointing that out.
@Mav: Normally some people will make a campaign post pointing out there style and so on which leads to an election.
|
I also want to point out the possibility of wheatley betraying us later on.
For anyone who hasn't played portal 2: He gets the successor of Glados and basically gets insane and stuff.
He will be a cute robot now, but I gotta feeling he won't stay that way.
|
On March 17 2012 09:45 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 09:39 Bluelightz wrote:
Adding to the discussion Should the person that gets elected should claim the power or not? I think that he should claim the powers if its anti-town but im open to other opinions :D. I'm leaning on a claim of the ability no matter what (unless its forbidden and it's against science.) The two scenarios I see: It's a bad ability: - It's claimed, and town know that it shouldn't be used and monitor if it has been or not. If it has, Wheatley dies - It's not claimed, we know nothing It's a good ability: - It's claimed, and town know that it should be used, and makes sure that Wheatley lives to use it. If he doesn't Wheatley dies - It's not claimed, we still know nothing
it will almost certainly a good ability. wheatley is a tool robot. he will be a PR ability 95%. The ability now is not the issue whatsover.
The problem is however, that he might become town's worst anyone out of a sudden with a complete set of new abilities, BG's or whatever. whoever will be elected already scares the shit out of me.
|
I agree. gonzaw is not a good candidate.
also, self voting is as stupid as it could be and should be ruled out in any mafia game as it basically undermines the purpose of an election on day 1: give information to town.
|
wow town seems out of control.
Kenpachi jumps into the thread and just randomly announce that all of us will win if we vote Glados and people actually consider doing that? are you kidding?
also, drazerk claims kill, item use. then randomly votes for somebody. Now his wincon has changed. This is just too much to bear.
People need to stop trusting both of them. We should treat this wheatley vote very delicately and I'd rather not give it to a stronger player who would abuse the might later on. I want you all to ask yourself, if you could deal with an overpowered version of the person you voted as an enemy. If not, don't vote him. Blz is prolly a wrong choice here, from what I've seen.
on a different note: this post here is so bad, I wanted to rip my eyes of.
On March 17 2012 11:07 gonzaw wrote:
Right, first things first:
I believe Drazerk is town. Mostly because of this:
-His shot right at the start of the day. I doubt a scum would do that, it would put TREMENDOUS pressure on him right off the bat
-His whole "I know Veli is town, because of bla bla bla", and not have Veli state otherwise, which means it's likely they are both town or they are both scum. I'd want Velinath to confirm that Drazerk isn't speaking bullshit though.
-Using an item on Wiggles. If he tells the truth, then I doubt scum would throw away an item like that, they would probably keep it, at least for some more time.
-He seems to have a lot of activity by this point, and considering 20 or so players are all inactive, I don't see why he would need to do so if he were scum (it would be easier for him to just lurk a little bit).
Have you played mafia at all? Really?
a) No, wrong. The shot early at the start of the day actually removes pressure, because he doesn't need to justify his hsot with post. He doesn't need to tell us why he shot. because VE hasn't posted,yet. That's exactly what scum would do.
b) NOoooooO, scum buddy all the time and call townies town and scum scum. That's what you do. It's ridiculous to just say "hey he called that one town, so they share an alignment".
c) You don't even know if that's true or if the items are one time use. You also don't know what item it was. You don't know shit, how is this a towntell.
d) It's easier to lurk, but lurkers die at some point. Stronger scum players talk alll the time. Activity should not be an indication for town / not town. At least not when judging more experienced players.
this is not to show that draz is scum, it's to show had bad gonzaw's reasoning is. No arguement was valid. It hurts my eyes.
Now get your shit together and vote someone, you can actually defeat. And don't vote Glados just because one person claims it's good for town.
|
On March 17 2012 18:09 Drazerk wrote:
My win con has changed - Velinath for Wheatley is now a horrific thing and we must not let it happen.
Also I now need an item so if you give me one I will love you forever.
Why do we care if YOU win? If your wincon has changed and that alone makes Velinath Wheatley horrible, why is it horrible for town too? Seems like your very own problem and not towns?
And why should we give you items.
Your whole reasoning doesn't make sense. You just push your own agenda.
to others awake right now: I agree, the VT claims are not a good thing. But so is saying "I believe everyone has a power", because it softclaims blue. We should stop discussing role stuff, it only helps scum at this point IMO.
|
drazerk. you explained your wincons and you believe ven is like you.
how was he a good vote target when you had to win with town and why is he a "horrible" target now? Isn't that contradicting itself?
|
On March 17 2012 22:28 Hassybaby wrote:
Jayjay, talk to me. How do you feel the game is going? And please explain why the hell there's a Celtic Guardian on the field....
So far many rasonable players have been quiet and people with bad logic have been the driving force of the thread. I won't kill Glados just because a random player states that it is good and I still want to elect someone who is controllable.
the roleclaim stuff is a bad idea and (again) responding that VT is bullshit is a bad move too.
Right now, I am not sure if gonzaw is just bad or actively uses wrong arguements to mislead town.
Even if draz is the balrog (which is likely), that doesn't say shit about his alignment or real wincon. Balrog has more of a serial killer flavour IMO. Balrog is chaotic, I don't think he'd win with town. But I know that this is set-up speculation...
to the card: I actually tried to google the card and its uses but my 50k modem speed internet won't let me  maybe you can sum up some results. It may also be a St. Patrick's day reference, but that's just a random thought.
|
On March 17 2012 22:38 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 22:36 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 17 2012 22:28 Hassybaby wrote:
Jayjay, talk to me. How do you feel the game is going? And please explain why the hell there's a Celtic Guardian on the field.... Even if draz is the balrog (which is likely), that doesn't say shit about his alignment or real wincon. Balrog has more of a serial killer flavour IMO. Balrog is chaotic, I don't think he'd win with town. But I know that this is set-up speculation... Read Lotr mafia where Igrok claimed Balrog it was a survivor then as well
can you link me to that? you prolly mean different player...igrok was an ork:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699¤tpage=88#1744
|
On March 17 2012 22:47 Drazerk wrote:For references - Gandalf's role - + Show Spoiler +You are Gandalf the White, Town Jack of All Trades. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/lotr/images/6/60/Gandalf04.jpg) Active Ability[Oneshot] Wisest of the Istari: One time during the game during the night phase, you may divine the nature of your target, receiving a copy of their role PM. This ability will not be fooled by Millers or a Framer if there is one but will be fooled by a Godfather if there is one. [Oneshot] Shadowfax: One time during the game during the night phase, you may summon the legendary steed Shadowfax. With Shadowfax at your side none can hope to outrun you; you may track your target and learn who they visit. [Oneshot] Watcher: One time during the game during the night phase, you may watch over your target, receiving the names of all who visited your target (but not their actions). [Oneshot] Wisdom: One time during the game during the night phase, you may divine whether or not your target is capable of killing people. This will not reveal alignment to you, only whether or not they have KP. You win when Evil has been purged from Middle Earth. Old balrog's role - + Show Spoiler + I am the Balrog.
I am a Survivor.
I have a number of powers, but I'll start with my wincon: I win when any faction wins and Gandalf is dead. So, the second part of my wincon has been conveniently fulfilled. Gandalf probably wasn't supposed to die this early - I've got a few powers that would have aided me in my quest for Gandalf.
I can investigate a player each night and discover if they are Maia. Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron, and Radagast are Maia (I am told these 4 names - more on this after my full claim).
I have one unblockable nightkill.
But that only helps me kill Gandalf. I still need to survive. Fortunately, I have a passive power:
I know what happens when I get the ring. I become Bulletproof.
For the record my DT item is called the Maia gun I don't become bulletproof when I get an item I can't discuss my power shot.
you are kidding right? You reference to a lie of a scum player!
igrok was a scum orc that game.
|
On March 17 2012 22:48 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 22:44 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 17 2012 22:38 Drazerk wrote:On March 17 2012 22:36 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 17 2012 22:28 Hassybaby wrote:
Jayjay, talk to me. How do you feel the game is going? And please explain why the hell there's a Celtic Guardian on the field.... Even if draz is the balrog (which is likely), that doesn't say shit about his alignment or real wincon. Balrog has more of a serial killer flavour IMO. Balrog is chaotic, I don't think he'd win with town. But I know that this is set-up speculation... Read Lotr mafia where Igrok claimed Balrog it was a survivor then as well can you link me to that? you prolly mean different player...igrok was an ork: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264699¤tpage=88#1744 It was a fake claim read his filter 
ninja'd. so you're saying that you got the role igrok lied about for real this time? but it wasn't announced immediately? and then not even halfway through day 1 your wincon changes to the fake one of igrok?
that doesn't even make sense...
also, what is this group you're talking about. Are you guys like a group of superfriends? or what do you have in common?
|
the OP suggest 5 different colours. VT, Blues, Scum, Third and Sleepers. but how is this going to help us.
Draz: If you can "find them", does that mean you can communicate with them or something?
|
Ok. Drazerk is lying. and here is why:
first he states that he needs items:
On March 17 2012 09:22 Drazerk wrote:
Kill wasn't compulsive
It is usable at any time with some major limitations
It's name is Shadows and Flames
I need items and that is all I am telling you about my role
then he goes on about ven being the election choice:
On March 17 2012 10:00 Drazerk wrote:
I propose Velinath gets Wheatley then - I have my reasons but I am going to need you to trust me on this one other whys I might screw towns chances at victory.
##Elect: Velinath
(among other posts)
then his wincon changes:
On March 17 2012 18:09 Drazerk wrote:
My win con has changed - Velinath for Wheatley is now a horrific thing and we must not let it happen.
Also do NOT let kenpachi get super powers why on earth would you even help him do that.
##unelect: Velinath
##elect: Blazinghand
Also I now need an item so if you give me one I will love you forever.
he describes his new wincon as following:
On March 17 2012 22:12 Drazerk wrote:
I claim balrog
I have to get 5 items to win the game and kill Gandalf When my win condition is met I leave the game.
Old win condition was to just survive to the end with town only
.
to sum it up: he needs items right from the start, he later claims that his wincon has changed and how his old wincon has changed and his old wincon was to "just survive to the end with town only ". Note how two words stress how townie he was, when in fact he already claimed earlier that he needs items...
I believe Drazerk is third. But isn't truthful about his wincon. Even with his claimed wincon he'll be a reliability. He needs to kill a townie (unless you assume gandalf is evil) and will kill everyday to get items, which might not be good for town.
|
I think Draz is bullshitting. The "I need 5 items" condition makes no sense as balrog. It's completely random.
Draz refers to this old Balrog fake claim and adds another random condition to it.
So they took an old fake role as a gag, implemented it here and were like "yea he needs more stuff".
You also claim to have restrictions on your KP item wise. Also completely nonsense for flavour (balrog doesn't need shit to kill).
I still think he might be sleeper cell or even scum (who didn't intend to claim until he knew he hit third).
Overall, draz, you are a perfect day 1 lynch. At worst (in case you weren't bullshitting), we lose a third party who wants to kill a townie and looks for items, which is still OK from town perspective. At best, me nail a lanch at scum or sleeper.
Sounds like a plan to me.
##vote Drazerk
|
On March 18 2012 00:33 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 00:30 Jayjay54 wrote:
I think Draz is bullshitting. The "I need 5 items" condition makes no sense as balrog. It's completely random.
Draz refers to this old Balrog fake claim and adds another random condition to it.
So they took an old fake role as a gag, implemented it here and were like "yea he needs more stuff".
You also claim to have restrictions on your KP item wise. Also completely nonsense for flavour (balrog doesn't need shit to kill).
I still think he might be sleeper cell or even scum (who didn't intend to claim until he knew he hit third).
Overall, draz, you are a perfect day 1 lynch. At worst (in case you weren't bullshitting), we lose a third party who wants to kill a townie and looks for items, which is still OK from town perspective. At best, me nail a lanch at scum or sleeper.
Sounds like a plan to me.
##vote Drazerk Except for the fact I can't kill for a while and you will be controlling the kill while I wait for scum to kill gandalf for me?
I am not voting you, because of that. I am voting you, because I don't buy your role.
Balrog who is resembling an old fake claim, but is now suddenly obsessed with items in addition.
yea right.
|
On March 18 2012 00:34 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 00:30 Hassybaby wrote:
Veli, according to Draz, he's got limitations on his dayvig involving items. So I don't know how well we'll be able to control it.
I think it would be a good idea to KILL him at some point, lynch or otherwise, so we can see what everything he says is true. But right now, I'd like to focus on other aspects like the election. We still have over 24 hours, and a lot of people have yet to say anything, so I think waiting will be better Well, if he's limited by items then we don't need to kill him. It'll be easy enough to tell if he's lying if someone gets consumed by shadow and flame again without anyone having given him an item.
yea, that'll help. Because he can't at no point say "Hey I received an item". That's totally a prove.
|
You want to use items to get back? Sorry. Just no.
Also, that was sarcasm.
Draz can at any point claim he got given an item. Now what? No one claims to have given an item.
draz: can you only kill when you get an item?
|
On March 18 2012 00:54 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 00:52 Grackaroni wrote:
Hey Drazerk, why did you want to make town elect velinath, because you believed he was 3rd party. When you claimed that your win condition before was just to survive and win with town? over powered blues with additional powers why wouldn't you want that?
ok and why don't you want that now with your new wincon?
|
On March 18 2012 01:13 ghost_403 wrote:
Drazerk never had to claim. Clearly, he didn't think that he was a threat to the town, at least for the time being. Focusing on lynching him out of the game right now is counterproductive. Today, we need to be more concerned about electing a Wheatly and finding a good lynch, rather than focus on some neutered third party.
##elect velinath because he seems to understand this.
he have claimed just because of that. if you believe him, then his wincon has changed. so he might have thought he was no threat for town THEN.
If we find a better lynch, I am fine with moving on. However, this lynch is at worst a third party lynch. We won't lose a townie. Before we randomly lynch a player, lynching drazerk is by far the better option. And that doesn't even take into account that there's a fair chance he's lying.
I still think we should give Wheatley to one of the newer players (mav, david or whatever), since they might not be as good in abusing OP powers, yet (no offense, bros! seriously!). That is, if they're willing to be transparent and to let town guide their actions. If they get insane, it will be probably easier for town to recognize it, while vet-players will annihilate town.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
