EPTI have less time than usual though so don't expect spam posting Curu!
TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia
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Curu
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I have less time than usual though so don't expect spam posting Curu! | ||
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More reason not to rely on blues to win the game! | ||
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I would suggest everyone keeping at least 1 PM target unused for now so if we get a confirmed Townie we can set up a Town circlejerk. | ||
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I agree with your idea of lynching jaybrundage though layabout but could you give your reasoning behind it? | ||
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Hide Flip: Can this be used on lynch targets? Is there a period of time in which the target must die after use of the ability in order for his flip to be hidden or, once designated, does the target, regardless of whatever time they die, have their flip hidden no matter what? | ||
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Take a look at how Town Jackal posts: + Show Spoiler [Town Jackal] + On February 21 2012 11:42 Jackal58 wrote: Dear redFF and WBG You both suck. Sincerely, Jackal58 On February 22 2012 04:19 Jackal58 wrote: People expect me to tunnel on day 1. So why not through some shit against the wall and see what sticks? And I made no attempt to start any thing. I called Toad scum and gave no reasons for it. I never voted him. I never made a case on him. I threw some shit against the wall. Some stuck to redFF. On March 02 2012 09:33 Jackal58 wrote: Didn't realize this had started. I rarely agree with Decon but when I do we lynch scum. On March 02 2012 10:14 Jackal58 wrote: He's picking a fight over an issue that really has no bearing on the game. I've seen other scum do that before. Choose a side on a LaL or lurker argument and beat it to death. Oh wait, that was you! I'd have no problem lynching either of them. On August 18 2011 04:06 Jackal58 wrote: My vote is on you Nisani and it's not coming off this time. You can fucking claim to be the goddamned Pope if you want to. On August 18 2011 21:14 Jackal58 wrote: No mystery at all. The only thing you'll be checking is your shorts. On September 08 2011 10:11 Jackal58 wrote: We're trying to read the last 2 pages without having our brains fall out. I have never seen a game start like this before. The first 5 posts contained a vote. The next 10 were a pissing contest between a bunch of 13 year old brats. And it went down hill from there. I wish I was as good as you guys. My first post with any substance to it will be made after I've had another 12 beers. You guys won't make any sense to me until I'm damn near unconscious. On August 14 2011 03:37 Jackal58 wrote: I have no specific wincon. I win with town. I'm simply compelled to spend all my efforts into getting BM killed. I have no idea what BMs alignment is or what if any wincon he has. He must die though. I had hoped it would be quite some time before he made himself apparent. I don't like this any more than you guys do. But BM must die. Lynch him now. Compare that to how scum Jackal posts: + Show Spoiler [Scum Jackal] + On August 24 2011 02:27 Jackal58 wrote: I never believe Palmar is a townie. At least not on day 1 or 2. Unless he starts quoting Shakespeare. So ya Palmar made a joke at my expense. I wouldn't use that as a basis to get him killed. At least not yet anyways. On August 24 2011 06:06 Jackal58 wrote: If it wasn't Wiggles I'd say you're spot on. But Wiggles is the only one here that I'm aware of that has won a game as the SK before. But I also used this rationale to talk myself into believing Wiggles couldn't be scum once when the scum team was playing like 2 year old kids on Valium. I don't believe Wiggles to be the 3rd party atm. I would say Palmar has more likelihood of that but that isn't saying much right now either. If you're right kudos to you. I'd rather wait a bit and see what develops. If Mr. Wiggles is town he is probably the best player we have. On August 25 2011 08:46 Jackal58 wrote: If anybody ever accuses me of tunneling again I'm going to bitch slap them. Ferryman we get it. You think Wiggles is the EH. You may very well be right. Guess what? Right now I don't care about the EH. But you sure as hell do. You are either the psych or scum. I know you have a very good grasp on how this game works. You are also on the opposite end of the brilliance spectrum from Cyber_cheese. Put your efforts into something other than tunneling your EH suspect. Please. I'm filtering all of you from most to least interesting so I'm going to be a while. On December 04 2011 23:57 Jackal58 wrote: Good morning. Role confirmed. Game on. Random lynch on day 1 seems counterproductive to me. On day anything really. What would you perceive as a benefit to doing that Palmar? Posting lists right out of the box about players who are likely on the scum team due to the hosts balancing reminds me a bit of Zodiac lists that have been posted in previous games. More often than not those lists were posted by scum. At least in the games I've seen them used in. You scum Palmar? The only way to 100% establish your innocence is to die. On December 06 2011 09:14 Jackal58 wrote: V7 asked and I'm going to answer. Without having played in at least a dozen or more games with Palmar to date, without using meta as a tool for analysis, I would call Palmar's play so far at best - terrible. But ya I'd see him as scum. I have a history of seeing Palmar as scum. Seems like most games if I'm not busy calling him scum he's busy calling me scum. But his ploy with you today he pulled on me just a couple games ago. However instead of killing some random person I blew him up. So ya I've seen him do this exact same thing before as town. So it is hard for me to call him scum. Of course that was until he told us he has a vote rigging role. That's a scum role. Palmar,why does a townie have a scum role? It's a complete difference in tone and style of posting when Jackal is Town vs when he is scum. When he's Town his posts are blindly aggressive, calling out everyone and everything he latches onto as scum whereas when he's scum his posts are much more reasonable, mild, gently probing sort of posts. The sample size is still very small this game but the cat's out of the bag essentially. It's small things in Jackal's posts that tip it off but things such as "You have my vote sir" really read like scum Jackal. | ||
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##Vote Jackal58 | ||
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I haven't talked to anyone in PMs yet, no. This is something I've had on Jackal for a while. My posts that I made in the endgame of a scum Jackal game played in December 2011: On December 19 2011 09:57 Curu wrote: @Jackal Your opening posts were so cautious and careful (whereas you are like super kamikaze man when you are Town) that I was screaming at syllo that you were scum as soon as the game started. I was going to ask him to shoot you but he went with annul instead. On December 19 2011 13:22 Curu wrote: Yes lol. Do you remember Werewolves? I was so sure you were scum because you had rabid blind aggression towards Nisani who was quite obviously Town. You flipping Town blew my mind. Likewise in Kurumi's game, you were attacking people and pushing them hard. After seeing you attack Palmar so mildly and so timidly in this game I was sure after your first post in this game you were scum. I wasn't in this game but I talked to syllo (a Vig in the game) and kept telling him to shoot Jackal from his first post. I don't have quite the same level of confidence in the read this game but it's close. | ||
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On March 12 2012 09:41 Jitsu wrote: Hmmm, looking at it again, I think prphlz's reason to vote for Jackal is a much larger amount of bullshit then Caller's. For instance, you point out that he is using things such as That yells sarcasm to me a lot more then it screams scum. Wiggles brings up a good point. prphlz is a player that wouldn't just happen to miss the name of someone that posted. It's almost like prphlz was waiting for Curu to post something, realized he fucked up, then tried to cover it. It's not surprising that prphlz mistakes Curu for Caller, and then 10 minutes later, Curu ACTUALLY comes out with a small little case against Jackal as well. Shit reeks. ##vote prphlz Also, LayAbout, are you still looking at jaybrundage? Yeah great thinking there captain. The whole Mafia team decided we need to kill Jackal so we all posted about it. Go read Werewolves I (Jackal Town), Storm Mafia (Jackal Town), then Cosmic Horror (Jackal Mafia) and TL Mafia XLVIII (Jackal Mafia). Compare the posting style between Jackal in those games. If you look at all his games actually this same style is consistent through every game without fail depending on if he rolled Town or Mafia. I tried to illustrate this with random quotes I took from a bunch of his games. In the last game especially, using the exact same standard that's set in this game I was able to identify Jackal as Mafia from day 1. Here's the link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212 It is an argument purely based on meta but on day 1 meta is one of the best indicators. If you read this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266305 We also used meta to establish Palmar as scum on day 1 and get him lynched. | ||
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Sentinel's vote is even worse, there are different merits and failures for sharing/not sharing who you are PMing. Neither option is inherently pro Town or pro Mafia, wanting a lynch on him because he advised sharing who you PM with is absurd. That said Mattchew you on board with the Jackal case? You advocated strong meta reads on day 1. This is a strong meta read on day 1 with precedents. Take a look at Jackal's games/posts and tell us what you think. | ||
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1. Jackal Town Jitsu Mafia = why protect Jackal with something dumb right now, should just go with it and let us case formers take the fall after flip 2. Jackal Town Jitsu Town = can explain his actions 3. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Town = can explain his actions 4. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Mafia = can explain his actions There's also the possibility that Jitsu is softly setting us up for the fall afterwards but still intending a Jackal lynch to happen, which would fall under scenario 1, but that's like Ace-level scum planning so I think pretty unlikely. It does look weird that we all came to the conclusion so simultaneously but I've provided links to posts in post-game discussion where I came to the same conclusion in a game from 4 months ago. Since the get-go I've drawn the same feeling from Jackal this game but I wanted to wait a bit to see him post more. When I saw Caller had already thrown down a case, though, I thought time was good to add in my thoughts. prplhz is someone who has also played many games with Jackal. There are two people I would say I have played enough with enough/recognize enough signs from to call Mafia based on meta tells and those are Jackal and Palmar. I also don't buy this "don't lynch him yet, he's a good player etc etc" there is only one person I would extend this rule to and that is Mig because he is a crushing Town player and an awful scum player. You lynch based on who you think has the highest probability to flip scum, way back in the day when I was on the scumteam we were able to pull out a dominating victory because people kept pushing "don't lynch Curu/chaoser/Mig/etc yet because they are good players (we were all scum)," ended up constantly lynching newbies and Palmar, who was the one pushing pretty hard for all 3 of us. was then killed. Palmar's cases faded from memory and we cruised through the rest of the game. | ||
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This is a normal game. Dreamflower does not belong in a normal game. It's a themed role. HMMMM | ||
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Original Message From Foolishness: Hey, you're next in line to be hosting a normal game. This is a reminder to get your setup balanced and to get a cohost. There are two games that will be posted before yours so don't make a thread yet, I'll let you know when to do so. Also, in case you weren't aware, I'm being very strict on what constitutes a "normal" game. Since your game is listed as normal all the roles in your game must be standard, and your game rules must be standard as well (1 or maybe 2 gimmicks is okay though). If you have any questions about what is allowed and what isn't just let me know. If it turns out your game is themed and not normal we will put you at the head of the themed queue and get your game going asap (so do not fret too much). Let me know if you got any questions. I'm also incredibly busy over the next week so I will go ahead and pass on balancing your game if you were thinking about asking me. PM I got from Foolishness. 1-2 gimmicks, I would say the Mafia role system is a special gimmick but my understanding of normal games is that all roles must be normal iterations with nothing too crazy. Dreamflower has been used by the hosts in every game hosted by them so far that was themed but in their normal games Vigilantes have always been the basic version of the role without this special gimmick. | ||
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I don't think there's any possibility of suicidal Vigilante in a normal game. Let's kill Jackal. | ||
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If we leave Jackal alive he is going to have to shoot tonight and claim his shot right before the deadline. I'll re-read the thread to see if there's anything else that sticks out but I doubt I would like a lynch better than Jackal. Even in the offchance he is Town losing the role is not a huge loss because it's such a double sided sword. Especially given the circumstances since a rushed shot is far more likely to hit a Town (resulting in 2 anti Town KP). | ||
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If we move onto someone else the best case scenario becomes we get scum and Jackal hits Mafia (super duper unlikely), worst case scenario becomes we used our day 1 lynch on Town and 2 extra KP hits Townies at night (very very likely). I'm not confident enough in any other lynches right now to take that risk. Katina maybe but it would mostly become firing into lurkers or people posting stupid stuff as opposed to scummy stuff. gumshoe I think most of it, especially the flip flopping, is stupid derp posting rather than scummy posting. It's hard to tell whether flip flopping is a sign of uncertainty (very possible on day 1 especially) or scum motivations (which we can't know till people flip). | ||
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If Jackal is Town and we leave him alive he basically has to shoot. And the probability is very high that he hits a Townie. So in this case we have dead Town Jackal, dead Town someone else, and a dead lynch target. No one to me looks obvious scum enough to warrant switching the lynch like this. If Jackal is Town and we lynch him then we've lynched a Townie day 1. We end up with a net of dead Town Jackal and lose a substitute dead lynch target. If Jackal is scum then yay. I don't feel like there is another candidate I want to lynch bad enough to take the tradeoff of high probability 2 Townie deaths vs low probability scum hit in the event that Jackal is Town. Yeah you guys go on about "omg we killed a blue" but look at what the blue does. IMO in this scenario mislynching a blue suicidal Vig is better for Town than mislynching a Vanilla Townie. | ||
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If Jackal isn't lying then I read the thread again after the flip and see what stands out. I'm not going to go do that right now. | ||
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gumshoe you're really getting caught up in the idea that blues are sacred. Jackal's role is arguably more anti Town than pro Town. Consider that even normal Vigilantes can contribute heavily to Town losing, a suicide Vig is a hundred times worse. | ||
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Before the claim I would lynch Jackal 100% over anyone else. I feel that strongly about my meta read. After the claim I think that it is completely weird for Mafia to claim that but this is outweighed by my belief that a Suicidal Vig has no place in a Normal game. With Jackal's history of claiming crazy shit as Mafia (Resurrection Mafia he claimed some impossibly convoluted role, Cosmic Horror Mafia he "found" the breadcrumb to bus one of his Mafia mates for examples) I wouldn't put something like this past him. | ||
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He did not claim his role at all even when right before lynch to save himself. He was highly, highly active leading up to his lynch, impossibly aggressive and pushing hard to make sure Town knew what he thought and who to lynch after he died. Look at his activity: On August 18 2011 08:14 Jackal58 wrote: Bullshit you lying scum. You claimed DT at least 20 hours before the flip. And you are going to try to tell us you weren't role blocked or killed? Bullshit. You are scum. Lying scum. On August 18 2011 08:29 Jackal58 wrote: Sevryn is scum too. He was fishing for what kind of answer I wanted from Nisani. To: Sevryn [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: your question of nisan Date: 8/18/11 07:45 We'll see how he answers. Original Message From Sevryn: if he doesn't respond regular forumer hes scum. On August 19 2011 08:36 Jackal58 wrote: What am I hiding? Why the fuck would I hide anything. If DropBear thought I was scummy do you really think he would include it in PMs to me? Is there any thing any where in the PMs where roles are discussed? Either his or mine? Or traits? Or anything like that? No. Because we never discussed roles or traits. He asked me if I was a rival with ON because of my first post in the game. That was the extent of it. The person the he claimed to is Nisani. Not me. Nisani makes a scum slip day 1. Then claims DT. Then claims DB told him he was medic. Then claims he checked a dead guy. Are you guys so fucking stupid that you're going to buy this shit??????? If Nisani is a DT I'm fucking Mother Theresa. On August 20 2011 00:15 Jackal58 wrote: So who you guys gonna lynch after I flip town? Who ever Nisani tells you to? And I have no idea if the dead medic thinks I'm scum or not. We have scum telling us what the dead guy said. Same sort of thing in LOTR Mafia where he went ballistic when people were trying to lynch him. His behavior this game is more like how he acted in Pick Their Power 2 (as scum) when pressured for lynch, posted a few things, tried to point the lynch at someone else but generally just disappeared and laid low (like now). | ||
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BM did it one post between who he wants to lynch. No Town sentiment in between, no pressure. Day 1 especially is a crapshoot; if I didn't like the Jackal lynch so much better than any other ones I would likely be flip flopping between targets as well. His posts are bad and his play is bad so far but nothing in it screams scum. | ||
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In Responsibility Mafia GMarshal was about to be lynched and claimed Suicidal Vig, we left him alive for the same reasons Jackal's claim is being considered (can confirm himself). But VE called bullshit all over it, refused to believe it, then went and shot GMarshal anyway in the night. This game he's somehow convinced everyone lynching Jackal is scum and makes stupid, worthless posts trying to paint people voting for Jackal as scum. VE is hard to read though as Town, my only other lasting impression of him as Town was when our whole Mafia team thought VE was the Traitor because his play was so absurdly ridiculous and derpy, turned out he was Town. | ||
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I like that you still haven't addressed any of the content in any of my posts instead still playing on wording. | ||
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You said the meta analysis was legit and now you're trying to claim that because the case is based on meta it's bad? What a fucking joke. | ||
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Jitsu is coming under heat because he believes, with flimsy reasoning, that we are scum for posting cases on Jackal around the same time and mispost prplhz made. But if I were really scum, wouldn't that make Jitsu look pretty damn Town? But you still want to kill him and you want Vigis to hit both of us? You want to see a real contradiction? That right there. | ||
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If he's scum then we've completely wasted a day and have to go through this same crap tomorrow. Logically, objectively, subjectively, whatever measure I see Jackal as the best lynch but I guess we waste day 1. | ||
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I would argue that the Suicidal Vig role would be best played as just a Vanilla Townie since the costs outweigh the benefits but we can't exactly have that with Jackal now can we? He's only off the hook with many people because of his confirmable role claim. If he is Town then he has to use a role that's detrimental to Town to prove it, if he is Mafia then we've wasted a day and inevitably face this same discussion next cycle. There's no other even close to realistic option at this point. It looks like we are headed squarely for a no lynch. | ||
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The activity level in this game is pretty pathetic. Probably the worst I've ever played in. It's not even that we no lynched because people found other cases/other reads, we no lynched because only about 5 players in this game actually give a shit. Do me a favour and shoot me if you're really Dreamflower Jackal. We can ride off into the sunset together. | ||
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On March 13 2012 11:56 Jackal58 wrote: Problem is you're giving a shit about the wrong person. You're always on my mind baby. | ||
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My vote is yours Palmar. | ||
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Until this Town decides to stop twiddling their thumbs they don't deserve more effort than that. Lead us to victory overlord Palmar. | ||
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On March 08 2012 15:30 Protactinium wrote: The player list has been updated, but is not finalized. These are the only people who are guaranteed in. If you are not on the list, this does not mean that you are not in. Feel free to shoot me a PM making a case as to why you should be in. There is no longer a traitor. | ||
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No, we lynch Jackal today and if he flips Town we can lynch his target after. | ||
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Then he refuses to shoot anyone - NOT CONFIRMING IT AT ALL. Use your head Jesus Christ. | ||
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Jackal refuses to shoot. Is it that fucking hard to understand? He is refusing to do the thing that makes the role believable. Like I don't understand how this can be made any clearer to you. | ||
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I also spent a whole metric fuckton of posts arguing why use of Jackal's role is more anti Town than pro Town and DrH DISAGREED WITH ME. Now he posts this bullshit: On March 14 2012 13:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: his town is inherently worse for town than it is good, if he didn't shoot that's a great thing and he shouldn't be lynched for failing to confirm his role via double townie suicide jesus christ Like are you fucking kidding me? He disagrees with me that Jackal's role is worse for Town when I used it to try to justify lynching Jackal, now he agrees with me that Jackal's role is worse than Town to defend Jackal. I thought DrH looked pretty damn Town but the amount of bullshit he is spewing out is ridiculous. For the rest of you who aren't refusing to pull your head out of your ass: Jackal's claim makes him a hesitant lynch because if Mafia claims this and they are asked to shoot, they have no way of faking it besides constantly saying they don't want to shoot. Jackal is doing this. This game: Last Jackal scum game: On December 04 2011 23:57 Jackal58 wrote: Good morning. Role confirmed. Game on. Random lynch on day 1 seems counterproductive to me. On day anything really. What would you perceive as a benefit to doing that Palmar? Posting lists right out of the box about players who are likely on the scum team due to the hosts balancing reminds me a bit of Zodiac lists that have been posted in previous games. More often than not those lists were posted by scum. At least in the games I've seen them used in. You scum Palmar? The only way to 100% establish your innocence is to die. The same exact fucking phrase that made me 100% sure he is scum in that game he has just pulled out again. Maybe you guys haven't played enough with Jackal. He is STUPIDLY AGGRESSIVE as Town. He would never post anything that mild and timid, especially not against Palmar. Jackal/Palmar are friends from outside TL and whenever Town Jackal decides to call Palmar scum he states it bold and proud with a billion curse words and crazy pushing attached. This is not Town Jackal. Palmar I haven't Mason'd anyone yet. | ||
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After VE dies the case is suddenly "very good" and he decides to go with it without once mentioning or commenting on it before. Then he tries to ridicule the Jackal58 case with some stupid quoting from the OP then when Palmar lays it on Jackal as well he starts softly "reconsidering." Smells like riding the bandwagon to me. Think Town, if I was scum what motivation would I possibly have to push Jackal as hard and singlemindedly as I am? To kill a "blue?" The blue role claimed is more detrimental to Town than Mafia, if I was Mafia I'd happily leave him be and let him do whatever he wants. | ||
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I pointed out to Palmar in the OP that Mafia knows about the roles in the game and that a Town role that knows the setup has never been in -any- game, and the Dreamer is so completely out of Normal game boundaries it's completely impossible. So we shall kill Kurumi today. | ||
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Kurumi definitely needs to die. | ||
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Kurumi's role is beyond belief still though. Additionally if he was Town and knew about the setup why wouldn't he post that information for all of us? It's already stated in the OP that Mafia has that information. No reason to keep it to himself. Die Kurumi die! | ||
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If Kurumi doesn't get lynched this Town is a joooooooke. Also I'm fairly certain now that Palmar was BSing about the Kingmaker lynch to draw a reaction from Jackal. | ||
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On March 16 2012 04:06 Mattchew wrote: it has been brought to my attention that kurumi doesn't speak or type well enough in english to fake that dream. its too bold of him ##unvote People whole look really bad to me Abenson, Bill Murray, Curu, Sentinal, All are lurking and scummy EchelonTee, Gumshoe, Wiggles, Jaybrundage are also lurking but are slightly less scummy Like wtf is this. Let's ignore that there's a scumteam full of other people that can write it out for him, or that he posted a completely random and grammatically incorrect version before correcting it, or that the role he has claimed is complete and utter bullshit in every sense of the word. I'm not so sure about Palmar anymore either, his defeatist attitude and random switching to Caller seem pretty sketchy combined with the fact that he didn't see outright that Kurumi was full of crap. He did out Kurumi though, so let's see what comes of this. | ||
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Jackal's at least has merit and I can see where the doubters are coming from but Kurumi's is just out of this world ridiculous. | ||
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( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)< ...a truly awful ![[image loading]](http://api.ning.com/files/aO5e1LmIVhJmhVcKZ*VI*sOuY9uDF*X*Svolb9dZB3OvJvb3AdakujJ5BcB994NLgTSvwZ5MNOgaNp*a4XPbhNTg5AFq8pj4/180px133Eevee.png?width=64&height=64&crop=1%3A1) | ||
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The rest of the nonvoters are either scummy as fuck (EchelonTree, Katina, layabout), not even playing the game (Bill Murray, rgTheSchworz, Pandain), or presumably dead (Jackal58). I don't know what to make of gumshoe, I'd have to go read his posts. Jackal buddy boy you should go vote for Kurumi too in case Palmar was bluffing. | ||
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You expressed a willingness to vote for Kurumi, then when actual solid evidence is brought up against Kurumi you're suddenly reluctant to vote for him. You should realize by now there is no other realistic lynch candidate and you're just throwing away your vote (despite earlier wanting to lynch Kurumi) to try to force a no lynch again. You agreed with the cases and voted Jackal but today turn around and say prplhz is scummy in part for proposing the Jackal lynch (with "more info coming when I'm less tired" which has never come). Today your lynch votes are suddenly three completely different people from the three people you wanted to lynch yesterday despite one of the main candidates being someone you wanted to lynch yesterday. Shit reeks. | ||
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Why are you throwing away your vote? | ||
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If you decide to vote somewhere else you are essentially stating that you firmly think Kurumi is Town or you for some other reason want him alive. All you retards waiting for a "solid 100% scum case" need to smarten up because no one can provide a 100% sure-fire sign that someone is Mafia. If you are waiting for that shit go back to playing SC2 Mafia where everyone is a Detective. | ||
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Are you seriously advocating another no lynch prplhz? I really feel like I'm playing SC2 Mafia here. "Guys don't be dumb and lynch until we get a DT check, pick no lynch." | ||
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If you're Town then I don't care what you think, establish the lynch today. The lynch is the Town's primary and only reliable way to win the game and acquire the information needed to win the game. Don't count on a DT or whatever other bullshit blue to hand the game to you. | ||
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It's actually mind boggling to see a Town so reluctant to use the lynch. The only reason you should be advocating a no lynch is if you are 95% sure that person is Town, which is utterly and completely impossible in this situation. | ||
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Need to re-read the thread. As derpworthy as I feel Mattchew has been playing he looks pretty Town for bringing down the hammer. | ||
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I'm thinking prplhz looks pretty bad right now too. | ||
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Caller I'll have to re-evaluate when I'm less lazy. The thing I am worried about is that some scum may have jumped on the Kurumi wagon early and let retard Townies take a huge fall when they refused to vote Kurumi. Kurumi was doing some stupid thing with Abenson when it was clear Abenson was in no way going to get lynched so it was hardly a counterwagon, makes me feel like Abenson may be scum and they were trying to paint him as Town. Just speculation at this point though, thread will need rereading. Also to all you Townies I hope you take this as a lesson to stop fucking trying to no lynch just because we don't have a DT check on someone. | ||
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Katina is here at deadline, doesn't comment on Kurumi case, carefully avoids Kurumi case, pops in to smear Palmar. Someone shoot her tonight. + Show Spoiler [Skype Log with Palmar] + [3/14/2012 10:57:28 AM] Palmar: The information I have is that there is indeed a dreamflower role present in the game [3/14/2012 10:57:39 AM] Palmar: like there is a role who knows random shit about the setup [3/14/2012 10:58:16 AM] Palmar: so, mafia dreamflower is quite unlikely [3/14/2012 10:58:19 AM] Palmar: and we'll make him shoot anyway [3/14/2012 10:59:23 AM] Charles Suo: that's [3/14/2012 10:59:30 AM] Charles Suo: pretty sketchy [3/14/2012 10:59:36 AM] Palmar: yes [3/14/2012 10:59:40 AM] Charles Suo: OP says Mafia has knowledge [3/14/2012 10:59:42 AM] Charles Suo: of the setup [3/14/2012 10:59:43 AM] Palmar: but really dangerous to tie [3/14/2012 10:59:45 AM] Palmar: oh [3/14/2012 10:59:49 AM] Charles Suo: a role that has knowledge of the setup [3/14/2012 10:59:52 AM] Charles Suo: seems really far fetched [3/14/2012 11:00:15 AM] Charles Suo: The mafia will be given some information some of the blue roles that are in the game, but will not be told how many exist. [3/14/2012 11:00:31 AM] Palmar: hmm [3/14/2012 11:00:40 AM] Palmar: Well the role name fits and everything [3/14/2012 11:00:48 AM] Palmar: I'm not going to give you too much information until I know better [3/14/2012 11:00:50 AM] Palmar: the main thing is that [3/14/2012 11:00:54 AM] Palmar: if jackal flips scum [3/14/2012 11:00:56 AM] Palmar: which he has to [3/14/2012 11:01:02 AM] Palmar: as we make him shoot tonight. [3/14/2012 11:01:12 AM] Palmar: that other guy is fucked too [3/14/2012 11:01:15 AM] Charles Suo: your mystery informant could be scum trying to gain Town cred as well [3/14/2012 11:01:22 AM] Palmar: clearly [3/14/2012 11:01:45 AM] Palmar: tbf, my mystery informant is actually in the bottom 8 of my scum -> town list [3/14/2012 11:01:48 AM] Palmar: ie, he looks bad [3/14/2012 11:02:14 AM] Charles Suo: why don't we lynch him instead [3/14/2012 11:02:25 AM] Charles Suo: there has never been a game where a Townie has a role that gives you info ont he setup [3/14/2012 11:02:35 AM] Charles Suo: and if he had that role why not tell the whole thread [3/14/2012 11:02:45 AM] Charles Suo: it already states in OP Mafia knows the roles [3/14/2012 11:03:43 AM] Palmar: I need to make the decision [3/14/2012 11:04:03 AM] Palmar: it's just too dumb [3/14/2012 11:04:05 AM] Palmar: to be scum [3/14/2012 11:04:14 AM] Palmar: I'm not 100% certain [3/14/2012 11:04:20 AM] Palmar: I want to see node flip [3/14/2012 11:04:26 AM] Palmar: that's the big questionmark [3/14/2012 11:04:36 AM] Palmar: so much clears up if he's scum. [3/14/2012 11:06:44 AM] Palmar: it seems very weird you didn't mason people right away [3/14/2012 11:06:48 AM] Palmar: that's what I'd have done [3/14/2012 11:54:59 AM] Charles Suo: I only talk to Mig in PM games anyways [3/14/2012 11:55:09 AM] Charles Suo: seems very weird that you didn't realize a setup info role is pretty damn sketchy [3/14/2012 11:55:45 AM] Palmar: I don't read ops [3/14/2012 12:00:03 PM] Charles Suo: yeah the absurdity of you coming up with something like that just to convince me about Jackal is a bit meh too [6:32:16 PM] Charles Suo: You should go vote Kurumi [6:32:37 PM] Palmar: I will I'm a bit perplexed that Palmar didn't see right away that Kurumi was scum from the information but he has 0 reason to out Kurumi like that if they are both scum. He is pretty much confirmed Town. | ||
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I mean Mattchew was even more stubborn but he ended up listening to reason. You just completely ignored it. I told you there was no realistic chance BM was ever going to get lynched. There's a possibility of you just being really thickheaded Town but yeah, I do need to read the thread again. Katina looks much worse anyways ATM. | ||
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Palmar also cleared out Townies that were going to hurt Town far more than help them. Yeah they were Townies but we had no way to tell and clearing them out without wasting lynches was definitely more helpful. | ||
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He has been playing a bit odd but get off him. He is not worthy of any suspicion at this point. | ||
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sandroba is in the game now too? Joyous day. | ||
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Would be perfectly reasonable to give scum an infinitely shooting Day Vig to balance out the game. | ||
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On March 15 2012 22:49 Caller wrote: We have Kurumi essentially admitting he is mafia. Palmar refutes an intentional and absolutely terrible point by Kurumi to make him (Palmar) look good. It’s a fucking bus. The same shit was pulled on me when I busted open capek's photoshop a while ago with RoL. I've seen this shit before. On March 15 2012 22:57 Caller wrote: i'm not voting on palmar, i'm shooting him tomorrow Look at this load of shit. Says Kurumi is sure Mafia, then goes and votes Palmar and refuses to move his vote even though he was here at the deadline, trying to go for a Kurumi no lynch. Then this shot on someone who was 99% Town before his flip. | ||
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Calls Kurumi 100% scum then tries to get a no lynch away from Kurumi. We need to kill him. | ||
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Either way Caller's play the last two days show perfect scum agenda, Mafia wouldn't have been able to night kill Palmar so they went to a day kill. Not sure why they decided to go so all out but it's possible they rolechecked him last night (only 1 death), saw he was a DT, and wanted desperately to kill him. That or they just wanted to get a confirmed Town Palmar out of the way. Caller also tried to force a no lynch last day despite calling Kurumi certain scum. | ||
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There is no plausible Town reason for Caller to shoot and more importantly NO REASON for Caller to call Kurumi certain scum then try his hardest to force a no lynch. He can't even pretend that he wasn't here near the deadline because he hadn't voted earlier, he came in to throw his vote onto Palmar to try to force a no lynch. Caller is 100% scum, kill it with fire. On March 16 2012 11:47 Caller wrote: ##Vote: Palmar Here is his vote. Literally 13 minutes before deadline. After posting these: On March 15 2012 22:49 Caller wrote: We have Kurumi essentially admitting he is mafia. Palmar refutes an intentional and absolutely terrible point by Kurumi to make him (Palmar) look good. It’s a fucking bus. The same shit was pulled on me when I busted open capek's photoshop a while ago with RoL. I've seen this shit before. On March 15 2012 22:57 Caller wrote: i'm not voting on palmar, i'm shooting him tomorrow | ||
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Interesting to note that both layabout and Katina refused to vote for Kurumi and only jumped on this Caller lynch when it was 100% certain he was going to die. | ||
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Mafia Day Vig is very powerful but with the huge downside that you have to make public who you shoot. | ||
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Use your PM on me and roleclaim. | ||
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Medic should be on me obviously. | ||
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I'll post out my reasoning a bit later when I have time but after going through the thread a few times these are who I feel best about. | ||
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MISTER WIGGLES? | ||
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Compare Wiggles's first few posts (that discussed nothing) with all his later posts. His first few posts were so "good and logical" that like half the game decided to Mason him. Too bad they were also completely useless and said nothing. His behavior on day 1 was so wishy washy and tentative. He very, very softly tries to paint prplhz/me as scum without actually coming outright and saying it, then very softly looks like he wants Jackal dead, then starts asking people what they think about Caller. Through this whole thing he has not made a single solid stance until finally settling on voting Caller randomly without even attempting to push the lynch. Day 2 starts out the same. Palmar busts out our Kurumi case, Wiggles is completely soft and neutral. Asks Kurumi neutral questions: On March 15 2012 07:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Kurumi, you've already claimed, so would you mind explaining exactly how your role works and what it does? I've tried searching it up, but I can't find anything specific, and it doesn't mean your role is the same. It's only after Kurumi starts piling up votes that Wiggles finally takes a stance against Kurumi. Afterwards disappears for the rest of the day. Through both starting days Wiggles has never tried to solidly push for a lynch, never tried to make one happen. As a veteran player he knows that a no lynch is 90% of the time bad for Town but never tries to ensure one happens, even splitting his vote uselessly on day 1 onto Caller who he knew had 0 chance of getting lynched. When he starts getting pressured and I ask him he -finally- makes a stance post and says we should lynch Bill Murray. Too bad scummy Wiggles hasn't been reading the thread and didn't see Bill Murray has a Town DT check on him. It's also pretty interesting that he chooses Bill Murray when anyone reading the thread would see that Katina and Abenson are lurkers who are far more likely to be scum. Let's look at Caller's posts: On March 12 2012 07:53 Caller wrote: Mr. Wiggles is like Jackal-lite at this point with his love of neutrality and "not-offending anyone." If Jackal turns up red, Mr. Wiggles should definitely be given the good run around-it's pretty common to see mafia have meaningless banter with each other just to get a bit of circlejerk going around. TLDR: Jackal58 is mafia, I FOS him, if he's red Mr. Wiggles is likely red too. Just randomly tossed in. Huh? If Jackal red = Wiggles red. With no logic, no thought process, just a random statement out of nowhere. Remember that Caller knows Jackal is not Mafia, this just reeks of Mafia pretending to bus each other. He doesn't want to seem like he's just accusing Townies so he throws in a scum buddy there for a random nonsensical reason then gives himself an out to dismiss that person later/make them look more Town after Jackal flips. | ||
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First off he starts the game with: On March 11 2012 13:42 Abenson wrote: Alright, checking in to the game. Goal #1: Make all my post contain 3+ lines. For the day 1 lynch I think we should just lynch the lurkers to force them to talk. Maybe we should follow his advice and lynch him. On day 1: On March 12 2012 22:49 Abenson wrote: Just ignore Caller's case on DrH completely. He's just trolling. The other stuff he posted seems to be legit though. Just ignore Caller he's trolling. lol. Why would Abenson pop in from his nonposting to just make a post on something so random? Its his one post on the day and it decides to single out Caller and tell us to ignore him. In the night: On March 15 2012 22:57 Abenson wrote: I'm kinda worried that the mafia will kill Caller tonight. Again this out-of-nowhere fascination with Caller. No comments on anything else, no other posts, just something trying to protect Caller. When you look at the Kurumi lynch Kurumi randomly started posting stuff about Abenson too when it was very close to Kurumi getting lynched. He had to know there was no chance at all for Abenson to get lynched, Jackal or something was a more real possibility. I think Kurumi knew he was going down and decided to randomly name someone to try to get his scum buddy Town cred. Abenson, in about 5 posts, has clear connections to both scum who have flipped. | ||
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Very obviously not reading the thread, comes in trying to push Node when he is already dead. On March 14 2012 02:45 Kurumi wrote: Are You getting coached this game? If yes, penitenziagite! Burn the heretics! Kurumi is showing random fixation on Katina. The people Kurumi randomly decides to "FoS" are: Caller Katina Abenson While he seemed afraid to talk about anyone else. Smells like Mafia trying to avoid pissing off any Townies. Add on that Katina was the easy scummy target for a long time yet Wiggles hasn't even bothered to mention her. He wants to go after lurkers and randomly chooses Bill Murray when it was clear Katina is more scummy and has more people willing to lynch her. I strongly feel that Mr. Wiggles - Abenson - Katina are our remaining scumteam. | ||
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On March 16 2012 04:38 Kurumi wrote: Uh, thanks I guess. I agree with a lurker lynch given our lack of time. We probably should aim at people like Abenson, EchelonTee or Schworz. Why Abenson: filter -His posts are one/two liners. -His cases start and end with a single adjective -Obviously lurks -Voted for Jackal D1 That post makes no sense. He does not say "Hey guys, Caller might get targetted by scum tonight, we should get a medic to protect him" or "Caller is a good player this game, I think they might want to kill him", it's just like: Oh, Caller might die. Oopsies. Why EchelonTee: filter -Still has to voice his opinion on D2 lynch -Obviously lurks -His behaviour is different from D1 Saving grace: He was one of the few people to actually post a case and push it D1. He attacked Jitsu and got into an argument with him for a bit of time. Why rgTheSchworz: filter -1 post so far Saving grace: He actually defended Jackal who I think is Town and said he was busy travelling or something. Vote count D1 I hope more of You change the view on me. I am innocent. I want to help. He puts a saving grace section for Schworz (now sandroba) who is likely Town and EchelonTee who is also likely Town. But there is no saving grace section for Abenson. LOL. Really, really feels like scum Kurumi knew who was Town and was too afraid to make a real push against any of the Townies. | ||
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I think scum were preparing soft buses on Caller because they knew his role would draw heat on him as he used it. Kurumi did this same thing. I wouldn't mind lynching Abenson today either though, I feel like both of them will flip scum. | ||
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Wiggles never tried to get Caller lynched. Really just looks like a soft bus play to look good later when Caller was lynched. As I mentioned Kurumi did this exact same thing. | ||
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It looks like Wiggles put a lot of effort/thought into it but never ever made a real push for Caller in the thread at any time. Do you understand where I'm going? He says he is suspicious of Caller but never once acts like he actually wanted Caller to be lynched until it was painfully obvious he was scum. | ||
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And why Bill Murray? What about Abenson or Katina? | ||
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I have a real hard time believing you didn't think your Masons were worth using especially with sandroba entering the game. Waiting for an opportunity of what? You refused to talk to me and I'm more confirmed Town than Palmar. | ||
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Awfully strange that deconduo/Katina, who haven't really done much all game, suddenly come in with these DrH cases. Godamn I was really hoping I'd be shot. | ||
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##Vote DoctorHelvetica | ||
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That I haven't been shot yet I think shows that I was on the wrong track so I'm going to with sandroba's read. | ||
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Here's the full Skype convo between us, I'm too bleh to edit it out right now so there's random other chatter but the gist of it was he really started wanting to lynch DrH but also believed Abenson/Wiggles were likely Mafia as well. + Show Spoiler + [3/20/2012 12:51:32 PM] Sandro Maculan: it's huge and I couldn't interact with anyone [3/20/2012 12:51:42 PM] Sandro Maculan: pretty lame [3/20/2012 12:51:49 PM] Charles Suo: yeah Palmar was raging too [3/20/2012 12:51:52 PM] Charles Suo: about being a replacement [3/20/2012 4:21:47 PM] Sandro Maculan: hmm doch pm'ing kurumi right before mafia found him as traitor and not saying anything is alarming [3/20/2012 5:17:50 PM] Charles Suo: that's true [3/20/2012 5:18:01 PM] Charles Suo: doch kinda just disappeared last few days after being pretty active at the start [3/20/2012 5:18:10 PM] Charles Suo: but most of the stuff he was pushing at the start was all relatively town [3/20/2012 7:29:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: after that surge of activity from abenson I'm feeling good about the chances of him flipping scum [3/20/2012 7:29:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: you are either a townie that does not give a fuck or you are scum [3/20/2012 7:30:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: so this means scum most likely [3/20/2012 7:30:40 PM] Sandro Maculan: ... [3/20/2012 7:31:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: that comment that wiggles masoned him back means he is either being deceptive or still doesn't understand the mason mechanics [3/20/2012 7:31:17 PM] Sandro Maculan: what do you think [3/20/2012 7:41:21 PM] Charles Suo: lol I think he just doesn't know anything [3/20/2012 7:41:25 PM] Charles Suo: but I think he is scum [3/20/2012 7:41:29 PM] Charles Suo: the random mentioning of Caller [3/20/2012 7:41:48 PM] Sandro Maculan: well he is from the old days [3/20/2012 7:42:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: so caller is one of the few people he recognizes maybe [3/20/2012 7:42:01 PM] Charles Suo: and Kurumi randomly mentioning him too [3/20/2012 7:42:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah [3/20/2012 7:42:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: let's hope [3/20/2012 7:42:21 PM] Sandro Maculan: he needs to die anyway [3/20/2012 7:42:25 PM] Charles Suo: yep [3/20/2012 7:42:43 PM] Sandro Maculan: only tomorrow right? [3/20/2012 7:43:00 PM] Sandro Maculan: the night flip [3/20/2012 7:45:17 PM] Charles Suo: yeah [3/20/2012 7:45:19 PM] Charles Suo: in like [3/20/2012 7:45:32 PM] Charles Suo: 27 hours [3/20/2012 7:45:32 PM] Charles Suo: or so [3/20/2012 7:45:37 PM] Sandro Maculan: 27 hrs [3/20/2012 7:45:49 PM] Sandro Maculan: sucks [3/20/2012 7:45:51 PM] Charles Suo: lol [3/20/2012 7:45:53 PM] Charles Suo: did you and syllo [3/20/2012 7:45:55 PM] Sandro Maculan: same problem in c9 [3/20/2012 7:45:55 PM] Charles Suo: make a shared account yet [3/20/2012 7:46:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: i was think about using the samueljackson one [3/20/2012 7:46:16 PM] Sandro Maculan: I forgot the pass though [3/20/2012 7:48:32 PM] Charles Suo: uhhh [3/20/2012 7:48:34 PM] Charles Suo: shit me too LOL [3/20/2012 7:48:56 PM] Sandro Maculan: lol [3/20/2012 7:49:03 PM] Sandro Maculan: was it you that made the account? [3/20/2012 7:49:09 PM] Charles Suo: dont remember lol [3/20/2012 7:49:10 PM] Charles Suo: password was like [3/20/2012 7:49:10 PM] Sandro Maculan: maybe you can get it mailed to you [3/20/2012 7:49:13 PM] Charles Suo: werapescum or something [3/20/2012 7:49:20 PM] Sandro Maculan: nah [3/20/2012 7:49:25 PM] Sandro Maculan: oh yeah [3/20/2012 7:49:30 PM] Sandro Maculan: it was something like this [3/20/2012 7:49:31 PM] Charles Suo: something like that [3/20/2012 7:50:04 PM] Sandro Maculan: its SamuelLJackson right? [3/20/2012 7:50:11 PM] Sandro Maculan: with no spaces or anything [3/20/2012 7:50:58 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck [3/20/2012 7:51:10 PM] Charles Suo: yeah [3/20/2012 8:03:16 PM] Charles Suo: lol sloosh [3/20/2012 8:03:21 PM] Charles Suo: has like everyone voting for him [3/20/2012 8:04:13 PM] Sandro Maculan: yeah [3/20/2012 8:04:31 PM] Charles Suo: who is your mason buddy [3/20/2012 8:04:58 PM] Charles Suo: mason seems really really powerful in a game of this size [3/20/2012 8:05:00 PM] Charles Suo: being able to confirm 2 townies [3/20/2012 8:05:12 PM] Sandro Maculan: he is dead [3/20/2012 8:05:23 PM] Sandro Maculan: so I'm quintuple confirmed now [3/20/2012 8:07:39 PM] Charles Suo: lol [3/20/2012 8:07:42 PM] Charles Suo: oh [3/21/2012 1:26:35 AM] Sandro Maculan: shit man c9++ is giving me a headache [3/22/2012 12:57:26 PM] Sandro Maculan: fuck man [3/22/2012 12:57:34 PM] Sandro Maculan: i don't really like doch either [3/22/2012 12:58:01 PM] Sandro Maculan: mafia is hard [3/22/2012 12:58:15 PM] Sandro Maculan: =((( [3/22/2012 1:14:46 PM] Charles Suo: yeah [3/22/2012 1:14:55 PM] Charles Suo: thi sgame got hard | ||
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It's a cheap way to do it but I didn't have the time to really push DrH as hard as I wanted today and I don't want that to become a factor in case I am busy again tomorrow. Rather than trusting you all to come to the conclusion I'm going to force the decision as I believe reading through the game will let you make the proper choice between us two. If somehow we're both Town I went full derp and fucked this game and I'll apologize heartily for it in the postgame but there is no one else I would really be satisfied with lynching tomorrow. Remember it's lylo so if you're Town we're going to need you. | ||
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It's a bunch of things. DrH's PM explanation is awful, considering he Masoned VisceraEyes as well who he felt was likely Town. There is absolutely, positively, 100% no reason for any Town player to ever want to Mason Kurumi who is going to be the most useless player in any game not containing sinani. His sudden and random hostility towards jaybrundage with no reason whatsoever besides that he was calling himself Town. He can come up with no reason to actually call jaybrundage scum when asked about it. There was also a KP missing the second night, originally I had thought it was because Palmar got hit and prplhz Medic protected him (prplhz was a Busy Medic thus didn't know if he protted his target or not) but I think it's very probable Bill Murray was covered. His sudden influx of activity, the fact that DrH didn't show any of this downright hostility towards him for calling himself confirmed Town, and his retarded reasoning. He voted DrH following Katina/deconduo/etc, as well as following the popular vote without any reasoning or posts on every other candidate, but all of a sudden come lylo he wants to lead the Town? Not happening. jay Katina is probably Town, if we lynch her we lose. As I said I am not moving my vote, I am 100% certain DocH is scum, as certain as I was on Kurumi/Caller. Palmar and sandroba both suspected DrH, please trust us on this one. | ||
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DrH being Mafia means jaybrundage is very likely Town. | ||
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DrH and Bill Murray should have been obvious scum but jaybrundage didn't want to listen to reason  .DrH flipping Mafia would have cleared deconduo, Katina, and jaybrundage so the last one would be down to layabout or EchelonTee. I really wish I had been kept alive that last day. Could've tried to make things right! Well played by Mafia though. | ||
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A Town role that just receives info about the setup? Really? And it just happened to give you stuff about Dreamflower who was being discussed? | ||
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