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On February 23 2012 10:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:No it's not bullshit and I do believe that the points I make stand against BC and he is very very much on my radar for scum. I switched my vote because I thought red was more likely scum than BC and that if BC IS scum it'll be much more apparent by Day 2 than by Day 1. There wasn't much else to discuss with redFF and the bandwagon had taken off so much would you have preferred me to beat a dead horse? Do you fault him for not being the one who came up with the RedFF bandwagon? What is he supposed to say about it? He's been negative and critical and unhelpful and I don't like it at all. I'm not removing suspicion from BloodyC0bbler. He justified a couple of things (his lack of assurance, understandable on day 1) enough for me to move my vote for today and see what he brings to the table tomorrow. It's really that simple. I expect BC to be helpful and do more work and less complaining. I'm not by any means letting him off the hook. I even told him straight up that he needs to put up or die come Day 2.
I expected that from him today. I'm preparing myself for even more disappointment tomorrow.
There has been a shit-storm of things happening in this thread, and redFF was NOT the scummiest individual. Not by a long-shot. I mean, if you think so then cool I guess, but not by my standards (which are infamously low.) Certainly early on in the game, but not by lynch time.
UGH....this is so disappointing. Today has been a total wash. TOTAL.
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On February 23 2012 10:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
I wouldn't say today was a total wash. We ended up getting rid of someone who would've given townies headaches regardless of his alignment.
I'd say that's considerably better than lynching BC and then having him flip ??? and not knowing jack shit about whether we got rid of a dangerous scum or one of the better townies in this game.
Sure, BC probably isn't the best townie ever but he's definitely better than 90% of the players in this game.
Red wasn't giving anyone headaches at the time of his lynch, thanks almost exclusively to you Bugs. Perhaps he would have come back with a different attitude and helped us nail some scum with his ability, assuming he was town. If he was scum, obviously it was a good day - but we really have no fucking idea. It was a wash Bugs. The fact that BC is alive only means he'll be able to manipulate me tomorrow into thinking he's town and win the game out from under me.
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On February 23 2012 12:01 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 11:49 Toadesstern wrote:
do you think I found a townie who is scared as hell and therefore makes no sense to protect himself or do you think I found a mafia that makes no sense because he has to put his vote somewhere?
I basicly interpret his first post as "well guys, I read the cases on BC and THAT'S all you got? Seriously? And you're considering voting BC because of just that?" and goes on to say what he said in his 2nd and 3rd post. That's just so wtf. from sheerly how bad his play is I'd say he's more likely to be scum. He's posting less than what I saw him post in purgatory (which is good) but his posts have changed in demeanor enough that I think on meta basis alone I'd call him scum.
Meta Read by WBG = Ignore Vigorously
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FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not.
X(
Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough....
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What do you make of the no flip Syllo?
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On February 23 2012 15:11 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 15:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
What do you make of the no flip Syllo? That whoever is mafia is really stupid for wasting a power on someone who no one is going to believe was actually mafia
I think you might have too much faith in this town.
You say "waste". Are you assuming the power is one-shot or limited shots? Could this be a power we'll have to contend with until a certain mafia member is killed?
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Also, are you sure it was a power and not some mechanic?
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On February 24 2012 06:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
I wasn't wishy washy regarding redFF, I just changed my mind.
Why so many ants in your pants, Dr. H? It seems like you're boiling over but I've given you no reason to be so nervous.
Worried about the pressure? Certainly seems like it.
Going half the day saying 'Dude he can be this way regardless of his alignment', while true, constitutes being wishy-washy Bugs, whether you decided by lynch time to "change your mind" or not.
It doesn't seem like DocH is worried about pressure at all. It seems like you're trying to get him flustered.
WAT
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On February 24 2012 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:WBG Check his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=60039You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen. Show nested quote +The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play.
While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit. We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really. Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On February 21 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote:
So your contention is "redFF is playing as bad town rather than scum", and although lynching bad town isn't the worst thing we could do, it's substantially preferable to lynch scum. This is a fair point. I will reread thread. you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please. Show nested quote + but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done. I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless. WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day. Quotes from the AC scum QT: "JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is  . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely." "One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him." "DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn" (all from radfield directing the other mafia) This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus. It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today. I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response
Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not.
I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound.
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On February 24 2012 08:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 07:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:WBG Check his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=60039You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen. The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play.
While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit. We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really. On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On February 21 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote:
So your contention is "redFF is playing as bad town rather than scum", and although lynching bad town isn't the worst thing we could do, it's substantially preferable to lynch scum. This is a fair point. I will reread thread. you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please. but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done. I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless. WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day. Quotes from the AC scum QT: "JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely." "One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him." "DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn" (all from radfield directing the other mafia) This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus. It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today. I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not. I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound. I find all the mafia then second guess myself into oblivion and change all my reads to the wrong ones usually The first half of this case is more important than the second which is a meta explanation of his behavior and thus less reliable
I mean, call it what you will. I'm just saying, WBG is abrasive, and he uses it to his full advantage regardless of his alignment. That's all I'm saying - I'm not going to provide you with links, or make a case about it or anything. It's not meta, it's just an observation.
Just trying to keep you grounded. If you'd rather I just shut the hell up because you think I'm scum, just let me know.
/facepalm
I did this same thing in AC. I appealed to your sensibilities. I'll stop now.
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On February 24 2012 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Good idea.
Here's a good neutral topic we can at least have a conversation about.
I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned.
What do you think about Blazinghand?
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On February 24 2012 08:50 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Good idea. Here's a good neutral topic we can at least have a conversation about. I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned. What do you think about Blazinghand? If you think that's the case, then join me and lynch BC. My case is reasonable. Maybe you think I played scummy D1, but my case is fundamentally reasonable and it cannot be denied.
Your case is nothing that hasn't already been said BH. I'm giving BC a chance to manipulate me (or try). Hold your horses. He's still on my list sir.
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On February 24 2012 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 07:23 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay I think I understand what you thinkt I said
You thought I'm saying: I doubt X, but palmar ended up Y
I was actually saying: I doubt (X + Y)
or at least that's what I was trying to say If that's the case cool. I'm incapable of calling you needledickthebugfucker in German.
I love playing with you in games Jackal. You're so fun.
Would you like, do me a solid and clarify your read on syllogism for me? I've had him at a town read, but threatening to quit trying looks really bad to me no matter how you slice it. I think you said you want to lynch him right? That still the case?
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On February 24 2012 08:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:50 Blazinghand wrote:On February 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Good idea. Here's a good neutral topic we can at least have a conversation about. I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned. What do you think about Blazinghand? If you think that's the case, then join me and lynch BC. My case is reasonable. Maybe you think I played scummy D1, but my case is fundamentally reasonable and it cannot be denied. Your case is nothing that hasn't already been said BH. I'm giving BC a chance to manipulate me (or try). Hold your horses. He's still on my list sir. Well, believe it or not I am rather comfortable changing my vote if I should later determine him to be a town player. For now my vote is on the player who I believe is scum.
Oh, I believe it - your buddy was actually in danger of dying yesterday, you had to do something right?. XD
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On February 24 2012 08:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
herp herp herp herp herp?
You're scum. I'm responding to your case before DocH's. I can't WAIT. It's SOOOO BAD BRO.
I'm actually giddy. ^^
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On February 24 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:54 Blazinghand wrote:On February 24 2012 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:50 Blazinghand wrote:On February 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Good idea. Here's a good neutral topic we can at least have a conversation about. I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned. What do you think about Blazinghand? If you think that's the case, then join me and lynch BC. My case is reasonable. Maybe you think I played scummy D1, but my case is fundamentally reasonable and it cannot be denied. Your case is nothing that hasn't already been said BH. I'm giving BC a chance to manipulate me (or try). Hold your horses. He's still on my list sir. Well, believe it or not I am rather comfortable changing my vote if I should later determine him to be a town player. For now my vote is on the player who I believe is scum. Oh, I believe it - your buddy was actually in danger of dying yesterday, you had to do something right?. XD Who was my vote on at the end of the day
The guy who didn't die. So shut the fuck up about it.
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On February 24 2012 08:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think Blazinghand is scum and his vote on BloodyC0bbler serves as a.....fuck, I don't know, like an ANTI-lightning rod. I think it serves to remove credibility from the wagon by his sheer presence, repulsing votes. I think this was planned.
Any other dumb questions before I respond to a case brought against me?
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I responded to your question with the quote, and asked you a question.
Why are you playing like a retard? I know you're better than this Blaze. I played with you as town before, I know you're capable of more. I know you're fucking scum Blaze, why are you pushing me?
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On February 24 2012 09:07 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:On February 24 2012 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2012 07:23 Toadesstern wrote:
Okay I think I understand what you thinkt I said
You thought I'm saying: I doubt X, but palmar ended up Y
I was actually saying: I doubt (X + Y)
or at least that's what I was trying to say If that's the case cool. I'm incapable of calling you needledickthebugfucker in German. I love playing with you in games Jackal. You're so fun. Would you like, do me a solid and clarify your read on syllogism for me? I've had him at a town read, but threatening to quit trying looks really bad to me no matter how you slice it. I think you said you want to lynch him right? That still the case? I have a hard time reading people that call me scum continuously. Syllo says I'm playing the way I always play but I need to be lynched. Kita says if he dies I'm scum. Wtf is up with that shit Kita? Syllo has given me the heebie geebies this entire game. Even before he started calling me scum. He's not playing like the Syllo I'm used to. Townie Syllo makes cases. This Syllo is just oozing bs. Kita is not anywhere as active as I'm used to seeing him. That bugs me too. Syllo suggested town made saves or vets were hit. I'm assuming scum have more than 1 KP. I have never seen a game here where scum failed on night one. I think the scum team is mostly inactive. That would be BC, RoL and Kita right off the top of my head.
Well, kita at least promised reasoning later (we'll see).
Syllo was one of the only people besides myself actually trying to get BC lynched yesterday...are you of the opinion that one veteran scum is bussing another veteran scum? Do you think that's viable?
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On February 24 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
##unvote bloodyc0bbler
Well, that didn't take much.
I appreciate the effort BC. If your quality of posting stays at least close to the quality of your last post, I can entertain the possibility of lynching others first.
What are your thoughts on WBG BC?
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EPT
