EPTMaybe his being "missing" is part of the reason he hasn't posted for the latter half of the day.
Storm Mafia - Page 3
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Maybe his being "missing" is part of the reason he hasn't posted for the latter half of the day. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Why are we assuming that it's a scumpower that just hide flips? "Missing Day 1" this wording is very deliberate and leads me to believe that RedFF is not lynched or dead at all. Don't make such serious assumptions. An unlynchable scum or a lynch dodging power seems like a bit much but since none of us (except perhaps the scumteam or a town/3rd party power role that did this) know exactly what happened so speculating on it is inconclusive and useless. and some other reasons Such as? I think it's weird that scum didn't just pile onto a town BloodyC0bbler though This is WIFOM just like your first point. The scum plan could be any number of things and it's more conducive to figure out who is scum rather than which one of many many plans/voting patterns/buses/etc. could scum be enacting or not. The recently ended Arkham City was a great example, I think, of scum distancing themselves pretty well from each other and in that game Sheth almost got lynched Day 1 and there wasn't really hard resistance from the scumteam at all. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:24 Palmar wrote: Just to clarify, redFF is for all intents and purposes dead Is this a no flip game or is that something you can't tell us? | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
RoL Has been inactive and fairly unhelpful and I know he is a great scumhunter. His vote for RedFF was justified only by the fact that he claimed tracker On February 23 2012 03:04 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions You just got bumped up a few priorities on my scum list congrats, you are now neck and neck with BC. Do you really find it likely that the top 2 bandwagons of last night were both scum? A lot of your posts in the filter are basically a complicated way of saying we need to lynch for information something that you yourself know is bad. You also said you were fine with killing BC despite claiming to not be able to read his filter well and never making a case (just saying you agree with syllo) then later putting him high up on your list with no explanations or pressure. This isn't the town RoL I'm aware of. I'm more concerned by what you didn't do. I know RoL to jump on wishy washy players, fake pro-town attitudes, and various other kinds of bullshit but you did nothing of the sort. Your case on redFF was basically "lynch him for claiming" and you never pointed out any scummy actions beyond vague agreeances with other players. Saying something to the air of "other people realized he was scummy for other stuff too so..." is not taking ownership of your own scumhunting. In fact you didn't do shit. And if whatever blocked RedFF is a scum power it makes sense scum would want him to be the target. If you can point me to another game where you pushed someone to be lynched just for claiming and were town I'd like to read that. Some of the rest of us saw scummy behavior on top of it and elaborated on that, something you didn't do so please don't turn around and say me or anyone else is scum cause we voted for red too. On February 23 2012 11:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: It's going to be interesting to examine the last few hours of todays lynch since it seemed to generate a bunch of activity. I think its safe to say whatever happened with the lynch to where we don't know what happened with RedFF whether or not he is dead or why he didn't flip doesn't benefit us and is probably a result of mafia intervention or the third party. I can't see any townie doing that or possessing a power like that since it is purely a detriment to us to ever use it. Empty worthless post. You don't need to announce what you're gonna do. Surprised you didn't use this time to jump on BC or me or any of the other people you FoS'd with zero reasoning on the first day. ___________________ Dirkzor RoL seems fine to lynch but a bit to easy. Unlike BH? On February 22 2012 06:01 Dirkzor wrote: @Chaoser now you're just argueing semantics... I called what Kita did double sided. I called what you did flip floppy. Basicly the same thing. And how can you compare my posts that was done 5-15 in into the game with someone made 12 hours later? You say that I don't take side. That is correct because I found both sides stupid and none of them particularly more scummy then then other. You called what chaoser did lying. Read the post before this one in Dirkzor's filter: On February 22 2012 05:56 Dirkzor wrote: I want to continue on Toad's case on Chaoser. Because Chaoser is lying! Read the whole case and chaoser defence here. Below is the end of that post. So it was AFTER you realized you had misread that you changed your vote? Not quite. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2012 08:56 chaoser wrote: VE said he was voting for red as a policy lynch. He then criticizes red, not for his one liners, but by saying: That is a direct criticism of red's policy lynch push on tyrran. I never said that he accused redFF of being scum for supporting a PL, I'm only saying that he's criticizing redFF of doing something that he himself did as well (Putting votes on a policy lynch). That point is factual. At the same time, I understand the nuanced subtle difference between the two given VE's immediate switch from policy lynch to scum-read. That's just good pressure play. Either way, I want to clarify what actually happened so as to not misrepresent the situation. lol, this is scummy as fuck. ##vote: redFF In that post you are still arguing with VE/DrH about whether or not VE was being a hypocrite or not. Also in that post you vote for RedFF. Next post: You seems to have changed your mind about RedFF here. Next: This is were you realize something is wrong and you quoted the wrong dude. Some few post later: Now that the mixup have been cleared VE is suddenly a player doing good. While I admit that its not a huge issue I don't understand why you would lie about it? Why not just "I thought VE was being a hypocrite but then RedFF's posting turned to shit so I voted him. Later i realized I was wrong and VE was right." You didn't call him flip flopping. You used a strong word, lying, then backed off later. I don't see what is scummy about Chaoser misreading something and then making a posting mistake because of it. That seems more town to me than anything unless he is doing some incredibly complicated roleplay where he pretends to be unaware of what's going on and play badly. I've known Chaoser to be inactive and absentminded as town before so I'm not really shocked or upset by this, I don't think anyone really should be. Dirkzor spent the remainder of his filter tunneling BH, who is probably the easiest lynch I've ever seen. He's acting like a really bad village idiot or some kind of serial killer who is just trolling to draw people out. He is definitely worth a DT or a Vig. Dirk can tunnel BH as hard as he wants and whatever BH flips doesn't matter. If he flips town everyone will agree that BH was playing really bad and would have gotten lynched or shot anyway. If he flips scum then Dirk gets some town cred. If he flips third party of some sort then Dirk gets a little bit of town cred. He can say "I was close, at least we got the SK out of the way now, it could have been worse it could have been town". Dirkzor plays very wishy washy and conservative until Kitaman27 calls him out for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&user=193595 The posts in this filter in which he is a town blue come across as far more natural, reactive, and there is clear progress in his thoughts. He doesn't ignore anybody and is pretty talkative. His posts in the Storm Mafia filter come across to me as more jilted and planned? I'm surprised he didn't call BH out on his behavior a bit before, he seems like the kind of player to try and foster a good pro-town atmosphere which he hasn't done in this game at all. Read Kitaman27's post on him for more analysis of his early game behavior: On February 22 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Dang it, I'm a sucker for blue claims. Funny to see the votes pile up on red after the claim, rather than before. On one hand, a mafia player who is set to die should always be claiming blue, but on the other, his claim ties up a potential roleblocker. Tracker is a tricky claim because even confirming it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a mafia stalker or something. I'll be keeping my vote on him for the moment. Now to everyone else: I've enjoyed comedy hour with Jackal, but his filter is completely void of content. Not a single post showing he isn't just along for the ride. Toad appears to be going through post-Arkham depression or something. A lot of fluff and he isn't very willing to share his reads. These two statements by prpl completely contradict each other. You argue how you don't think red is scum, but you're willing to vote him to avoid no lynch? How does that make sense? If you're going to argue that he really is blue, then of course a no lynch would be more beneficial. How about push a different lynch if red isn't your priority? This is really poor from him. I know I already picked on Dirkzor for his language, but I'm going to do it again. "Hey guys. Look at me and my protown attitude!" Only scum say this. Lack of aggression and confidence. These are fair points. I wish Kitaman was more active but I don't remember him having a strong presence in the last game where he was town. I agree with the things he is saying here, this is the sort of thing I'm used to seeing from RoL. _____________ VisceraEyes The most obvious choice imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978 I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta. In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc. In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this: On February 10 2012 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Correctitude v2.0 Liquid`Sheth - His return to the thread from the busy days past has been less than impressive, to say the very least. He's only interested in saving his own life, not in finding and eliminating threats to town. As such, it pleases me greatly to see that he's (at least for now) our choice for lynch. Opz - A lurker - and a site-veteran lurker. He's on Jackal's list of phone-network buddies, but I haven't seen much in the way of finding scum from Opz. Every passing hour that he hasn't done shit in the thread is another reason we should hang this guy. hiro protagonist - This one's silence has now reached a deafening cacophony of scumminess to me. He's not looking for scum...or if he is, he's not sharing with the class. This one is tomorrow's lynch if he lives through the night (I hope he doesn't.) Kurumi - WBG entered today with an INSTANTANEOUS vote for Kurumi. Now, he hasn't claimed any kind of DT role or anything, but being a semi veteran of the site and a decent player, that's not surprising. But it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from a DT with a red check. I'll be looking into Kurumi in much greater detail, but for now he's on my lynch-list. VisceraEyes Watch-List of Vigilance Katina - Downgraded from my lynch-list for being constantly on my Sheth lynch unwaveringly. If she were a scumbuddy, I'd have expected at least a little resistance yesterday when I was pushing or at the very least today. However, something about her screams 'doing-bare-minimum-to-avoid-lynch'. I'm watching Katina like a hawk. Palmar - Again, unwaveringly on my Sheth lynch. Palmar has the honor of being the village idiot this game however, and that's not the kind of behavior I'm used to seeing from townPalmar post-D1. I have no idea what kind of game Palmar is playing, but I'm watching Palmar like a hawk. I actually hope he keeps trolling and we lynch him...but I'm not sold on him being scum. Third however? Dunno....EVER VIGILANT!!!! A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different. He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler. On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post.  Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice. Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping. On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too. On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not. X( Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough.... You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential. The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation. I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If I'm scum put me in the ground | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Are you claiming scum right now? is that really your response | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't actually see any reason for anyone of any alignment to ever say what you just said. Anyway, need to know basis. I have no vested interest in answering any questions ATM. I'm asking why if you are so sure I am scum did you stop pressuring me. If my responses was unsatisfactory I don't see why you would drop all pressure on me without saying anything. "If I'm scum put me in the ground" is figurative language, if you couldn't figure that out. If you think I'm red, then why are you holding back? It seems wishy washy, unless you're just waiting for the day or something I don't know. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote: I find it funny that you're still concerned about my pressure. Does it bother you that you have no idea what I'm thinking? I would find it strange if anybody suddenly relented pressure/a case on somebody. I don't really care what you think and I'm not super interested in defending myself either, I just fail to see how a town player is justified in dropping a case on somebody they seem fairly certain of. This need to know thing is the same shit you were spewing in Arkham to avoid giving town information and make other people look scummy. Not to mention how amazingly wishy washy and tepid you were on Day 1 concerning RedFF. You know the same thing you called me scum for? The only reason I'm not pushing you now is because I keep second guessing myself like crazy going through your filter and I just didn't have the time to look back into your game history since I was getting ready to leave, which I'm doing as soon as this post is posted. Off to the beach. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:49 wherebugsgo wrote: I find it funny that you're talking for him. Are you his scumbuddy by chance? @syllo same thing I said to Dr. H. It's actually really obvious unless you're stupid and take everything literally | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Check his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=60039 You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen. The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play. While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit. We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really. On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote: you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please. but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done. I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless. WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day. Quotes from the AC scum QT: "JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is  . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely." "One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him." "DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn" (all from radfield directing the other mafia) This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus. It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today. I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
See: Palmar in Arkham City | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not. I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound. I find all the mafia then second guess myself into oblivion and change all my reads to the wrong ones usually The first half of this case is more important than the second which is a meta explanation of his behavior and thus less reliable | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 24 2012 10:18 prplhz wrote: BloodyC0bbler's latest post itself is a lot more interesting than the case on him. I think his accusations on risk.nuke are good too but I'm on RebirthOfLeGenD right now. nobody cares, stop announcing things that are utterly worthless | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If BH is mafia I don't understand what his intention is. A mafia player has a team advising them on what to do. I can discern no real intentions from him, I get a neutral read. VE stop announcing how kick ass your case is gonna be and just post it. | ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
|
DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
| ||
| ||
