|
On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short. You brought up this proposal rather meekly, no authority no anger, I gotta say its a bit suspicius.
My current list of people I find suspicious
Steveling( too light, doesn't seem stressed at any point isn't very aggressive. Also has suggested a no lynch, terrible option for town in this game because as I said where one short.
Manner kiss(could just be a disillusioned player if so hes useless to us)
DimmuKlok. You say almost nothing for half a day and then show up suddenly and accuse a) the most obvious seeming runt in the litter (manner kiss) and b) the second most obvious seeming runt in the littler(me) without suggesting anything new whatsoever.
The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)You also post for the first time in a while in relative tangent with Steveling who also hasn't posted in sometime... Both your posts are regarding lynching, one of you saying we should lynch lurkers another saying we shouldn't. Not so sure what i think of you but I definitely don't trust you.
Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's.
|
On February 18 2012 05:53 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short.
Could you explain this further? I don't follow the 75% chance.
In a sample group of 4 random players in a 16 player game with 4 mafia its almost a 100 percent chance that one of the 4 in the random group is mafia, this is not a random group though, none of these 3 specific lurkers have contributed much making them suspeicius which increases the odds of them bieng mafia. Overall if we pick a lynch from of the three random lurkers there is statistically speaking a good chance that one of them will be mafia, because a) one in four players is probably mafia and b) there behaviour is suspicious. I only see three obvious lurkers therefore the odds are not 100 percent of one of them being mafia. There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly.
|
On February 18 2012 06:14 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:03 DoYouHas wrote:
gumshoe brings up a good point against Steveling when you consolidate gum's posts on him. Steveling initially said that lynching lurkers is our best scumhunting option so long as nobody looks very scummy by the end of the day. But then when he thought the day was ending he decided to push a no-lynch. Please explain. Well, I thought we were 4 hours from night. With our current cases, I just thought that we were gonna lose a towny.
See again you come off as so cuddly despite the fact Im accusing you ) : it makes me feel bad for suspecting your mafia but that behaviour is why i suspect you in the first place.
|
On February 18 2012 05:56 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short. You brought up this proposal rather meekly, no authority no anger, I gotta say its a bit suspicius. My current list of people I find suspicious Steveling( too light, doesn't seem stressed at any point isn't very aggressive. Also has suggested a no lynch, terrible option for town in this game because as I said where one short. Manner kiss(could just be a disillusioned player if so hes useless to us) DimmuKlok. You say almost nothing for half a day and then show up suddenly and accuse a) the most obvious seeming runt in the litter (manner kiss) and b) the second most obvious seeming runt in the littler(me) without suggesting anything new whatsoever. The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)You also post for the first time in a while in relative tangent with Steveling who also hasn't posted in sometime... Both your posts are regarding lynching, one of you saying we should lynch lurkers another saying we shouldn't. Not so sure what i think of you but I definitely don't trust you. Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's. I'm very confused by you. You mentioned at least 2 times that people should have a reason to suspect you are scum after you defended yourself for dear life all day yesterday. You also accuse people on not accusing you? What? If you are scum your play is brilliant, lol. I'll have an eye on you. I'll check some filters and post something else later. Peace.
Well you'd be an idiot not to at least slightly accuse someone for such a dumb poll ) : that was part of the purpose of the poll. Also how is me defending myself for dear life any different from slush defending himself when he was called out by Ech? We defend ourselves, its what we do regardless of wether or not were town or mafia.
|
On February 18 2012 06:20 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:15 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 06:14 Steveling wrote:On February 18 2012 06:03 DoYouHas wrote:
gumshoe brings up a good point against Steveling when you consolidate gum's posts on him. Steveling initially said that lynching lurkers is our best scumhunting option so long as nobody looks very scummy by the end of the day. But then when he thought the day was ending he decided to push a no-lynch. Please explain. Well, I thought we were 4 hours from night. With our current cases, I just thought that we were gonna lose a towny. See again you come off as so cuddly despite the fact Im accusing you ) : it makes me feel bad for suspecting your mafia but that behaviour is why i suspect you in the first place. Well don't know what to say to that. That's generally how I post or talk. lol Imagine I'm the Sheth of Mafia. xP
Ironically enough sheth plays a lot of tl mafia, and he's less cuddly then you'd expect. That said at one point he was suggesting that his own lynch was towns most viable move...
|
On February 18 2012 06:05 Alderan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
No reason for a no lynch yet big hoss, we've got plenty of time. Ok brahs, now for some case building.... Here's a little fliter you all should check out. DimmuKlokOnly three posts so let's investigate.
Post #1 + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 15:26 DimmuKlok wrote:
Hello everyone,
I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started.
Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. - 1st he goes ahead and defends those who had not posted yet, not a huge deal in and of itself but we will see how this is a trend in his postings. - He then goes on to say that we should all have a list of lurkers. That's as scummy as making a list of lurkers but not actually doing the work to update it..... Post #2+ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 18:09 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 17:11 Janaan wrote:
3. Something I'm really concerned about right now is that there seems to be a few players who have posted since the game started, but only in the most fluffy of ways. Specifically, jaj22, DimmuKlok, trackd00r, MannerKiss, and to a lesser extent, Steveling and TKHawkins. I understand if they didn't have the time to do more than just check in at the start of the game, but still, for so many people to just put out one or two fairly useless posts is overall not a good pro-town atmosphere. We HAVE to find some way to get people involved and posting.
One player that concerns me right now is MannerKiss. First he gets called out to provide some decent content by DoYouHas, then he posts a single sentence acknowledging DoYouHas's post, but doesn't post any content. I'm getting slightly scummy vibes from his play right now. It's worth looking into as we go forward.
Alright, lets take a look. MannerKiss: I think it's unanimous that we would like to hear more from him. His first post was a simple one line introduction, and his second was his one line reply to DoYouHas, which was almost humorous in how suspicious it sounded. Jaj22: He was the one that initially started the conversation about lynching lurkers. I don't agree with his stance. I would rather not have a lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. I'm not sure if his posts are much to be suspicious over, but worth keeping an eye on. Me: I don't see how someone could read my post and think it didn't have a pro-town atmosphere, but that's your opinion. Trackd00r: I found his first post to be useful and agreed with some of what he said. He never contributed again after that, but it's still pretty early. I don't see the anti-town atmosphere in his post. - First he agrees that the person who voted one time should be suspicious.....How incredibly helpful.... - Then he goes on to say he would rather no lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. As someone posted above, giving the mafia a free kill and leaving in someone who is adding nothing to the town and only creating more confusion is counter productive.... - Denies how someone could think his all fluff no substance post would be scummy at all..... - Follows up with another fluff analysis of Track, saying nothing, making no stance, providing nothing.
Post #3Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:19 DimmuKlok wrote:
I've decided to change my stance on lynching lurkers. I was thinking it would be in towns favor to not lynch someone over lynching someone for being inactive, because there's not much to go off of. After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers.
I'm must suspicious of MannerKiss right now, like most of you. I'm surprised he threw out that one line response to DoYouHas and then never came back to defend himself.
Another suspicion of mine is gumshoe. He's made a lot of posts so far, and most of them being him defending himself for making the poll in the beginning. From a scum perspective, this seems like a good idea. Opening with a useless poll gets your name out there while trying to make it seem like it had a purpose. From then you're able to clutter the thread with discussion over the useless poll, all the while falling back on being a new player as an excuse and some vague reasoning behind it(which might I add has changed several times).
Even if gumshoe is not scum, I can't see this as pro-town behavior.
- Immediately retracts his old lynching policy. Even saying "After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers." - Announces that he is still suspicious of MannerKiss, in light of all the recent developments..... (that was sarcasm, of course you would still be suspicious.... he still hasn't posted). - Jumps on the latest flavor of the thread, Gumshoe, and makes a vague, semi accusatory statement. That, ladies and gentleman is what you call a lurker.... a real scummy looking lurker.....
Alderaan I 100 percent agree with you, his first substantial post was generic and unhelpful and then he proceeds to accuse the two most obvious people in the game after not posting for hours. He has has my vote as well if it comes to it.
|
On February 18 2012 06:28 trackd00r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
I'm sorry Steveling, but I definitely think that no-lynch is no no. We are not close to night. We've only had played for 21 hours and that's less than half of the time. We still have plenty of time to build a strong case on anyone. There have been several stances where we could gather information and I know that we can use it to push out a lynch. If it turns out mafia, great. If not, we will see the bandwagons and those who are dodging the cases to make a good and hopefully successful lynch in the second day. Well, you have posted much more content than you did it on your previous post, but I insist, I disagree with a no-lynch. Gumshoe, sometimes I think that you are going more pro-town, but in some other instances I just don't understand your intentions. Even you manage to contradict your self: Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:36 gumshoe wrote:Early reports! All very preliminary but hopefully it'll give everyone an idea of where some townies stand and where some lurkers don't. blae - absent but has an alibi(by alibi I mean he said before game that he would not be especially present day one) Alderan - Absent no alibi Ech - present but slightly suspicious ) : Do you has - present has contributed somewhat(a single post against the word of Ech) no basis for suspicion manner kiss- has presented himself but has not yet contributed to discussion. No basis for suspicion steveling - is present has contributed to discussion does not seem suspicious.track door - has made himself present has contributed somewhat to discussion no reason yet to suspect midnight- is present has contributed , (is mean to me but rightfully so )  no reason to suspect as of yet Sloosh - has contributed, acted out only to defend himself, does not seem suspicius Janaan- is absent no alibi tk hawakins- is absent no aibi dimmuKlk- is absent no alibi zell - is absent no alibi jaj22 - is present, is also somewhat mean but justifiably so as far as I can tell, his negative tone is striking negative but not yet suspicion worthy. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:09 gumshoe wrote:
Now for stance number two! This ones about the lovely poll!
Unlike the topic of lynching lurkers, nearly everyone( with the exception of manner kiss and a few other lurkers) has stated an opinion on this matter, heres the breakdown of where everyone stands. Fore warning I'm a lot less objective here so take my opinions as you will.
Thinks I'm the nubbiest of noobs:
Blae(not much to say, just seems like he wants to move on from the poll which isn't really what a mafia would want)
Janan (just disregarded my poll and moved on, not very suspicious behaviour)
Steveling( hasn't commented to much, posted rather jokingly in response to my poll... Almost as if he wasn't worried about the prospect of me being mafia... Steve needs to post more.)
Midnight Gladius (didn't think I was mafia, not a suprise gladius dosent seem to take many risks)
TKHawkins( hasn't said much)
With this, I really want to make you think more carefully about you post. You say that Steveling has contributed to the discussion, when he actually didn't really at that point (he even loled at your poll) and then you suddenly realize deeper into the game that he hasn't commented much? I'm letting of the suspicion of you but please, please, think carefully every post you make. Instead of replaying to every post, try to start a case or at least draw your lynch candidates in a clear way. I swear that I can't even understand some of your posts, and not only to me, but all the town right here. For the moment, i'm lifting my suspicions about you and Steve I need to keep checking the filters and try to build up a strong case. There have been a lot of situations going on here and I'm starting to lose focus >_<. Expect more posting from me, I will.
Understood officer wont happen again;
|
On February 18 2012 06:31 MidnightGladius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:14 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 05:53 DoYouHas wrote:On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short.
Could you explain this further? I don't follow the 75% chance. In a sample group of 4 random players in a 16 player game with 4 mafia its almost a 100 percent chance that one of the 4 in the random group is mafia, this is not a random group though, none of these 3 specific lurkers have contributed much making them suspeicius which increases the odds of them bieng mafia. Overall if we pick a lynch from of the three random lurkers there is statistically speaking a good chance that one of them will be mafia, because a) one in four players is probably mafia and b) there behaviour is suspicious. I only see three obvious lurkers therefore the odds are not 100 percent of one of them being mafia. There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly. Christ in buckets, it's FakePromise all over again :S Gumshoe's statistical analysis is misleading and flawed. I'd rather not clutter up this topic with the details, but in non-technical terms, he's making WIFOM assumptions in setting up the problem, not counting the distribution of outcomes properly, and I don't even know how what he means by [quote=gumshoe]There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly.
At this point I'm going to have to assume malicious intent. Several of us have warned him about this, and he's continuing to try and derail the discussion. He's been spamming even more than before, using really bizarre logic to defend himself, and he still has yet to provide much in the way of content. In a way, this is worse than lurking, and it's way beyond what I would expect an innocent newbie to do :/
##Unvote: MannerKiss
##Vote: Gumshoe[/QUOTE]
there are 4 mafia, 9 townies, 15 players in total,if you were to lynch 4 random players simultaneuley one of them would turn up as mafia. If you were to lynch one of four suspicious players there is a greater chance that one of them turns up as mafia. Thats not Wifom, thats just considering the fact that a lurker who doesn't post much has a slightly greater chance of being mafia. All this is a case for lurker lynching its not meant to be harmful, I'm just suggesting that because theres one more mafia than usual its more likely we will lynch a lurker we have a better chance than of getting a mafioso then we usually would. Please explain to me whats wrong with this claim. Bore us with the details. After all you are accusing me, so I'm very much so interested, hope you can forgive me for that.
|
On February 18 2012 06:31 MidnightGladius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:14 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 05:53 DoYouHas wrote:On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short.
Could you explain this further? I don't follow the 75% chance. In a sample group of 4 random players in a 16 player game with 4 mafia its almost a 100 percent chance that one of the 4 in the random group is mafia, this is not a random group though, none of these 3 specific lurkers have contributed much making them suspeicius which increases the odds of them bieng mafia. Overall if we pick a lynch from of the three random lurkers there is statistically speaking a good chance that one of them will be mafia, because a) one in four players is probably mafia and b) there behaviour is suspicious. I only see three obvious lurkers therefore the odds are not 100 percent of one of them being mafia. There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly. Christ in buckets, it's FakePromise all over again :S Gumshoe's statistical analysis is misleading and flawed. I'd rather not clutter up this topic with the details, but in non-technical terms, he's making WIFOM assumptions in setting up the problem, not counting the distribution of outcomes properly, and I don't even know how what he means by [quote=gumshoe]There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly.
At this point I'm going to have to assume malicious intent. Several of us have warned him about this, and he's continuing to try and derail the discussion. He's been spamming even more than before, using really bizarre logic to defend himself, and he still has yet to provide much in the way of content. In a way, this is worse than lurking, and it's way beyond what I would expect an innocent newbie to do :/
##Unvote: MannerKiss
##Vote: Gumshoe[/QUOTE]
Sorry reposting due to format error.
there are 4 mafia, 9 townies, 15 players in total,if you were to lynch 4 random players simultaneuley one of them would turn up as mafia. If you were to lynch one of four suspicious players there is a greater chance that one of them turns up as mafia. Thats not Wifom, thats just considering the fact that a lurker who doesn't post much has a slightly greater chance of being mafia. All this is a case for lurker lynching its not meant to be harmful, I'm just suggesting that because theres one more mafia than usual its more likely we will lynch a lurker we have a better chance than of getting a mafioso then we usually would. Please explain to me whats wrong with this claim. Bore us with the details. After all you are accusing me, so I'm very much so interested, hope you can forgive me for that.
|
damm same thing came up, everything that is and is above the vote is gladeuses post everything below is mine
|
On February 18 2012 06:54 slOosh wrote:
Gumshoe I am seriously considering lynching you due to your anti-town play. You are cluttering the thread despite numerous requests to stop. Your posts are still without content. Saying that we have a higher probability to hit mafia since there are 4 opposed to 3 is irrelevant and unhelpful in finding the mafia.
If you keep it up I will push for your lynch, because your play right now is detrimental to town.
Alright ill back of at your request. Look forward to something useful next time I post.
|
On February 18 2012 07:27 Steveling wrote:
Gumshoe what's your view on jaj22?
Hes hostile very hostile, but doesn't seem like mafia.
Right of the bat he introduced us to both his mentalities as scum and town. This is a bold move that says "I have nothing to fear about revealing my mafia strategies because I am town". If he's mafia he's just volunteered to change his strategy just to throw us off, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, or he's just setting an honest tone for his town play(which is more likely.
His next post is used to dismiss my poll because it clearly wont be of any use due to the inability to keep other posters not in this game from posting. this a useful way to address the poll because it allows for a) the immediate dismissal and the ability to avoid discussion if necessary not because the poll is stupid but because it validly flawed and b) the ability to put pressure on me for posting something that looked as if it had no way to go but down.
He chooses to follow up on option b and eventually proves I was lying, after that he backs off because he's already proven his point and fully discredited the poll(and me). This kind of finality to is useful for town and useful for crumbing suspicion on me for later use if I do turn out to be mafia. Him not pressing the investigation here seems a good sign that he not looking to start a train(or wagon was it?) but actually trying to just figure out another player.
he later on calls out a lurker who is especially suspicious because they claim in advance and time and time again that they have limited time and cant post effectively as a result = Blae. Blae said in advance he wouldn't be able to post that often, but if he's mafia he can use that to his advantage and jaj showcased that he was aware of that threat when he asked Blae to speak up. There is no harm in asking a player to talk but asking a player who no one has called out because they said "I wont be around because of x" seems shrewd.
Also Jaj has only REALLY been hostile towards one person(other than me),Steveling for a stupid suggestion.
All these things can be interpreted as good mafia play though. What really seals the deal for me in thinking hes town is his efforts to communicate with other mafia semish veterans. None of the other frequentish players have really done this. It gives me a sense that Jaj is trying to create a community of individuals he trusts, which he wouldn't have to do if he was mafia. He's also forcing those same people to talk, because they can also turn out to be the biggest threats having already played the game a bit.
Jaj is trying to make friends not by pointing fingers or discrediting someone, but by calling out to the players he knows. That seems like really strong positive play to me and sorta dispels his scumish vibe.
My one complaint is that jaj keeps virtually all his findings to himself so far. I expect a case out of him at least before vote just because It seems almost certain that he's picking up a lot on almost everyone here.
|
On February 18 2012 08:44 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 08:14 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 07:27 Steveling wrote:
Gumshoe what's your view on jaj22? Hes hostile very hostile, but doesn't seem like mafia. I just don't like day 1, because I can't read anyone who doesn't have a decent post count. That's why I'm concentrating on trying to make people post better. If I'm sounding hostile I should correct that because it's likely to put people off posting. Show nested quote +All these things can be interpreted as good mafia play though. What really seals the deal for me in thinking hes town is his efforts to communicate with other mafia semish veterans. Actually I thought I was mostly ignoring them because they had a decent post output and hadn't done anything daft  Show nested quote +
My one complaint is that jaj keeps virtually all his findings to himself so far. I expect a case out of him at least before vote just because It seems almost certain that he's picking up a lot on almost everyone here.
Nah, there's no-one that I really want to lynch yet. Hopefully that'll change as the post count increases.
I know you see more than you let on, but I don't mind you waiting till a few hours before vote to let us in on your grand scheme. Furthermore the conversation with the decent posters seemed like a good way to get a few better players talking without provoking them like several other players did to get certain posters talking(including yourself at one point in the case of blae) so it struck me as constructive. Good townies build towns.
|
On February 18 2012 08:47 Janaan wrote:
A couple reads
DoYouHas: Pretty strong towny feel to me. He's been willing to call people out and promoting real discussion from the town.
Sloosh: Still on the neutral side, BUT probably leaning toward the town side of things. Since defending himself from Echelon, he's been trying to clear the thread of fluffy responses, to allow for real discussion, which is also what he did in NMM3.
Alderan: Feeling a bit towny to me. He was the first to provide a full-on case against someone, which is usually a pro-town action.
Gumshoe: I still think he may just be a real newbie town, but his posts are clogging up the thread. His post on Jaj22 was pretty unhelpful in my opinion, and seemed kinda wishy-washy and pretty WIFOM at the end.
DimmuKlok: As mentioned by Alderan, he seems scummy. I await his resonse to the case.
Sorry Jaj hasn't posted much so there aint much to read yet but I don't get a scummy vibe off him so take my opinion for what you will.
|
On February 18 2012 11:16 Steveling wrote:I present to you, Gomshoe the Wifom Jester! Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:59 gumshoe wrote:On February 16 2012 04:59 Blazinghand wrote:On February 16 2012 04:53 Jitsu wrote:On February 16 2012 04:46 Blazinghand wrote:
NOTHING NEVER MIND IM A MORN
DISREGARD THIS POST He was trying to /in. I'm saying this to highlight his scrubness (lol@neologism), and to embarrass him to everyone that is reading this. Carry on. ??? Leave this scared place! before your flames of spam leave it a burning hollow. Your precence here will result in a natural massacre so tragic that both town and mafia despite their differences shall find eternal commonality in death, as they are all reduced from happy newbie newbs to smoking newbie corpses! (Kidding, I have a bad relationship with hyperbole.) You can already see from here, before the game even started, the nature of his posting. You have a bad relationship with hyperbole? No shit. Your posts wreak havoc and confusion even in the /in period of the game. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any
mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain
wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie
to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)
That's WIFOM scum in its best right there. You assume ofcourse that everyone will think exactly that and dismiss their suspicions for you. And it worked actually, only a handfull of players remain cautious towards you. Myself was joking around with it at first glance. Only after I filtered you, I begun to see it for what it's worth. Laborious scum play. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:20 gumshoe wrote:
Well you'd be an idiot not to at least slightly accuse someone for such a dumb poll ) :
Another obvious scum minded WIFOM. You say so yourself that it would be naive for someone not to judge you based on that poll. Yet most of us thought of it as either a joke or bad/naive town play. Have you guessed that would happen? That you would get away with that? Ofc now, I use WIFOM on my part to say that, but here comes your posting to validate me and my reasoning. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 01:19 gumshoe wrote:
As of now i really dont get any bad vibes from him,but i didnt really expect to suspect anyone this early in the game, that said gladus first posts explain the odds distribution in the game in a refined but obvius way, his other post was ano obvius but not hostile critique of my poll( the poll was also meant to garner hostile potentialy opotunity seeking mafia responses but his response was just polite and reasonay dismissive) he has not provided ano opinion on lynching lurlers In 2 separate posts you accuse 2 different people of not questioning your poll. The reasons or the purpose you do that is irrelevant. What matters is that the only way you can do that is if you had already assumed that noone would hold you responsible for this poll. Because if they wouldn't, then you would simply be commiting suicide. There's no logical reason to do that whatsoever. So, it's clear that you used WIFOM logic in this poll. Now, although initially you fooled some of the most naive of us(like me) when some other players like Echelon and Midnight, started to doubt you, you gradually changed colors and stance. At first you feel the need to complement yourself, after taking more heat you go to (read the bolded parts) Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : next few posts it comes down to Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:You are getting defensive. I just wanted you to clarify a post. Now, how is your attitude so flip-floppy? On February 17 2012 11:48 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 11:43 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. K very simple To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature provided the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. I'm not trying to offend you, or needlessly discredit you; your post was just hard to understand, and I did not quite understand the purpose of what you did. post however you please. as a random aside: Mafia gets heated, so if I'm acting like an asshole just let me know and I'll tone back. On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote:
did you feel threatened? :D On February 17 2012 12:21 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote:
No, because it was baseless.
Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner.
Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it? Did I accuse you of being Mafia? don't twist my words. there a motives for both townie and scum to do so. Gumshoe does his weird poll thing, you ask if he could write his posts more legibly, and then take a very friendly stance of making sure no one is offended, asking for accountability etc. Now I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how you shift your attitude so quickly. I assume the :D in the next quote indicates playfulness. Then just a few minutes later you lash out against me, clearly telling me what not to do - "don't twist my words"And that last line: "there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."That may be true but a townie would never think like that. If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves. They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did. I was fine with your first post. But now you've earned my suspicion. ##FOS: EchelonTee T To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature could provide the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. That said I doubt that Ech would take this huge and obvious of a risk this early on(as he did) if he was maf, we still have tons of time, if Ech backs off we shall know if he's trying to hide after taking so much heat and therefore he's probably worried about an investigation or a lynch. His only route is to keep being an aggressive poster and hopefully dig his way out of the ditch with some phoenix wright quality analysis. I also really don't like Ech's controversial move of casting doubt on a specific player for not yet posting when there are several players still lurking. I don't care if you wanted to draw him out you could've just asked for his opinion on something. to finally go to Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short. You brought up this proposal rather meekly, no authority no anger, I gotta say its a bit suspicius. My current list of people I find suspicious Steveling( too light, doesn't seem stressed at any point isn't very aggressive. Also has suggested a no lynch, terrible option for town in this game because as I said where one short. Manner kiss(could just be a disillusioned player if so hes useless to us) DimmuKlok. You say almost nothing for half a day and then show up suddenly and accuse a) the most obvious seeming runt in the litter (manner kiss) and b) the second most obvious seeming runt in the littler(me) without suggesting anything new whatsoever. The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)You also post for the first time in a while in relative tangent with Steveling who also hasn't posted in sometime... Both your posts are regarding lynching, one of you saying we should lynch lurkers another saying we shouldn't. Not so sure what i think of you but I definitely don't trust you. Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's. So as we all see, you try to tone down the polls meaning as more and more people are on to you. To top if all off you admitted that you lied! Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 02:18 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 02:06 jaj22 wrote:On February 18 2012 01:22 blae000 wrote:
Either way, to tell who is lying or not from a click in the poll isnt the best way to go.
I'm not sure you're reading this properly. After being caught out, Gumshoe has admitted to substantial dishonesty through his early posts, including one that he doublespaced for EchelonTee. If what you're looking for is liars, we have a confirmed one already. The only reason I haven't voted him is that players who make this sort of ridiculous and dishonest plan in newbie games have a nasty habit of flipping town. I thought this was the liar game!( manga reference for the win!) I know it wasn't right to admit I lied, if i lie its better to just stick with it considering you didn't really have any proof that i didn't vote townie just your word, and i could just say I voted late by accident , the reason the told the truth is because I felt that I had to own up the big blunder I caused. I felt that by clearing it all up I could help us move on from this discussion. How in the name of earth am I the first to make a case against you is beyond me. You basically yelled "IM SCUM SUCKERS", while using that dubious poll to shift the blame to others and wifoming yourself out from the poll's sticky situation. Lets look now at how you approached those who accused you based on the poll. People that as you said in your own words Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:
A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so.
So you had every reason to push a case against the two of them. Lets see how you handled it. There were 2 of these players. MidnightGladius and Echellon. Your last response towards Midnight was Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's.
Your previous one was this,(bolded) Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:18 gumshoe wrote:
I agree with you Gladius, on all accounts, but my problem with all your suggestions is their so easy. Need to put pressure on someone? Look to the guy who messed up at the start of the game. Should we or shouldn't we lynch? Of course we should! It'd be foolish not too. Who do we lynch? how about the guy everyone hates and has not contributed whatsoever? As suspicious as I am of manner he could very well be just a disillusioned townie who really doesn't want to play a game in which he has no power, which is mega unlikely but still possible. As chaotic as my play is yours seems almost too by the book. You almost seem like a Damon Gant just waiting to burst out in a fit of demonic fire/lightning and ferocious claps!
So, after OMGUS him with that last sentence, then for no reason at all you back off of him. And all that after prophesying that those who pursue you will be mafia. Why was what? If you did plan to not pressure him at all, then why the OMGUS stance? Sense? Zero. The other guy who accused you was Echellon. This was your last dialog with him concerning the matter, Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote:
I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least!
Really? You apologize? How cute. You will notice how that WIFOM poll plot is activated again on this quote as well. "Don't try to accuse me cause I know that you wouldn't be so stupid to do so!" Your play is scum 100% gomshoe. You post in quantity but not in quality. You lie. You so admit it yourself. You make obvious WIFOM play. In fact your play is so weird that even in the off chance that you are a dazed towny it's still better to kill you off now. I can't imagine what messy situation you will cause in the 3rd day for example.
Stevie your back! Ill get to you in a bit.
|
On February 18 2012 09:58 MidnightGladius wrote:
So you're just going to vote me for no given reason, promise to post reasoning, nudge someone else to attack me, and then leave?
You and jaj22 are both not making any sense to me.
Ill address you! lets take a look at your first post shall we?
"It is such a pleasure to start another game: let the paranoia flow, and the productivity falter!" the first thing you say...that just seems completely unnecessary ) :
"In response to DoYouHas, this is my second real game here. The earlier ones were way too large and chaotic to be of much use."
your very quick to discredit your own experience, your first two posts so far involved some cute innocent encouragement for a scenario in which the mafia thrives (implying the ideal game is one where mafia have the upper hand) and your second post makes you out to seem pretty meek and inexperienced, in other words not a threat. I wont hold you too much to that second post because were all noobs here.
After that you posted some speculation on how the number of roles will play a role, which was pretty obvius and not especially helpful ) :
Your next four posts all start with me and then move on to address common issues.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((The vets watching us are going to have a field day with that one, gumshoe :/
As you obviously can't ascertain anyone's alignment through this poll, and the polling isn't closed only to players of this game, what exactly about the mafia were you planning on studying?))))))))))))))))))))))))
the first one you just laughed at the obvious flaw in the poll. Same as Jaj nothing to read there. You then dont post for almost two pages. Which means your present but don't see fit to participate, perhaps because your busy with something else.
Next qoute!
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((gumshoe's posting seems pretty odd so far. I can imagine him not knowing that non-players could still vote in his poll, but the fact that he thinks that he can compare voting patterns in an anonymous, arbitrary poll with actual vote pattern analysis, coupled with his rather silly explanation for why the poll didn't work (lurking town players trolling en masse with mafia joining the "wagon"? Really?), doesn't seem right. Even if you don't think that there's anything substantive to discuss, there's no reason to fabricate something that isn't likely to help us at all.
However, I don't really get the feeling that he's scum, just new. I don't want to make the same mistake I made last game, when I was certain that questionable Day 1 play by itself meant scum.
EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset
If you claim that your "he's posting the scum QT" threat was a joke, then you're expecting us to let you get away with saying anything you want, as long as you say that you're not being serious. Secondly, you claim that you never accused sl00sh of being mafia, but there's no denying that he would be posting in the scum QT if and only if he were truly mafia. You're not looking too friendly at the moment, and I have to wonder what might be on your mind.
You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching. ))))))))))))))))))))
In this second post two page later you act suspicious of me and point out several things that are almost "too newbish to be newbish" but do not accuse me like Ech, you basically call me scum in all but name porbally because your potentially afraid of catching heat like Ech did, you then actually call ech scum in all but name as well, just like you did to me. I almost feel like Ech was on your mind when you were thinking about how to raise the suspiciun aimed at me, so you just incorporated him into your post while you were at it. You only address the two people who have taken heat knowing that their safe bets. You have contributed nothing to town whatsoever at this stage of the game.
((((((((((((((((((gumshoe, I am having a really hard time reading your intentions, because you've basically done everything that the beginner's guides warn against: lying, posting lists without much content, derailing the thread, and making unclear points. If you're going to continue doing this, it's going to make the game a huge headache for the town. I don't think that you're mafia, but please look over the guides, and try to post more productively.
On the topic of lynching or not: there is no reason not to lynch Day 1. It is the most reliable way for the town to go forward, as we can then begin looking at voting patterns and doing behavioral analysis. If we don't lynch, we're in basically the same spot during Day 2, except with one fewer innocent player.
As to who we lynch, I say that we put pressure on lurkers and threaten them with a lynch if they don't contribute. It establishes a basic precedent on the quality of content that we expect out of certain players, and then we can take their future posts and make some contrasts. The common argument against lynching a lurker is that mafia will only have to pretend to contribute, or stay just above the least active players. I say that that's fully acceptable, as both of those behaviors will be red flags in the days to come, especially if the town keeps up and stays consistent with activity levels.
With that said, I'm going to put my vote on MannerKiss. He has done nothing for us.
MannerKiss, here's your opportunity to show us that you have an interest in helping us win this game. Who is your #1 target so far?))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
This next post which happens over 12 hours later, starts off once gain with me! You accuse me of violating basic rules, you start hyping me up as an enemy of the town as either a) a reckless poster or b) mafia scum, you once again call me scum in all but name. You then make the obvious decision to be pro first day lynch, which really shouldn't be a decision considering that not lynching is a sure way to give mafia an advantage and finally you then decide to vote for Manner Kiss... the most obviously distrusted player, huh pretty big move there.
((((((((((((((((((Christ in buckets, it's FakePromise all over again :S
Gumshoe's statistical analysis is misleading and flawed. I'd rather not clutter up this topic with the details, but in non-technical terms, he's making WIFOM assumptions in setting up the problem, not counting the distribution of outcomes properly, and I don't even know how what he means by
[quote=gumshoe]There is a 60 percent chance rather(15 divided by 5 = 3 three is 20 percent of 15. So the odds of three random players being lurkers is twenty percent, but the odds of one of them being mafia is 60 percent exactly.[/quote]
At this point I'm going to have to assume malicious intent. Several of us have warned him about this, and he's continuing to try and derail the discussion. He's been spamming even more than before, using really bizarre logic to defend himself, and he still has yet to provide much in the way of content. In a way, this is worse than lurking, and it's way beyond what I would expect an innocent newbie to do :/
##Unvote: MannerKiss
##Vote: Gumshoe))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Finally we arrive at your first big move all game. Early on you were talking about how the ratio of players would affect the game, which really wasn't different from me trying to figure out how the higher quantity of mafia players to town players would affect lurker lynching. Regardless this is your big moment, you call me out as mafia elevating me above Manner Kiss, you don't address any of the other events like Sluush and ask's fight, you just keep your eyes on the prize. Even if you fully think I am mafia you can adress the problem of lurkers, or involve yourself in one of the other conversations, instead you remain tunnel visioned and focus only on me. You havent even tried contributed to town in any other way nut accusing me in this last post.
In the day since your first posted about me, you have posted 4 (including that first comment) times in total and each time you began by addressing me. The hostility level of these 4 posts was like this
post one. Jockingly mocks me.
Post two. Says im probally a scum or a noob and is now suspicious of me but doesn't wanna make any judgements just in case
Post three. Begins portraying me as a threat regardless of wether or not I'm mafia or a townie, conditioning the town to lynch me on probably day two if no greater suspect appears after manner is lynched.
post four. Accuses me in a 'THIS WAS THE LAST STRAAAAW" manner.
Theres an obvious progression of hostility in each of these posts that seems almost systematic. Almost as if you've been clearly building up to your accusation.
After that you only posted to defend yourself against Jaj's claims.
So basically, your total contributions amounts too
Pointing out things I do that people before you have already pointed out.
Placing suspicion on Ech
Voting for manner kiss and me
deciding that we should lynch period
Accusing Ask and jaj two constructive players who've been active on multiple topics the whole the whole game and have taken risks to get information.
Oh and noting that the game is getting exciting.
As of now that is it, I eagerly await your defence.
|
On February 18 2012 11:16 Steveling wrote:I present to you, Gomshoe the Wifom Jester! Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 05:59 gumshoe wrote:On February 16 2012 04:59 Blazinghand wrote:On February 16 2012 04:53 Jitsu wrote:On February 16 2012 04:46 Blazinghand wrote:
NOTHING NEVER MIND IM A MORN
DISREGARD THIS POST He was trying to /in. I'm saying this to highlight his scrubness (lol@neologism), and to embarrass him to everyone that is reading this. Carry on. ??? Leave this scared place! before your flames of spam leave it a burning hollow. Your precence here will result in a natural massacre so tragic that both town and mafia despite their differences shall find eternal commonality in death, as they are all reduced from happy newbie newbs to smoking newbie corpses! (Kidding, I have a bad relationship with hyperbole.) You can already see from here, before the game even started, the nature of his posting. You have a bad relationship with hyperbole? No shit. Your posts wreak havoc and confusion even in the /in period of the game. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any
mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain
wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie
to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)
That's WIFOM scum in its best right there. You assume ofcourse that everyone will think exactly that and dismiss their suspicions for you. And it worked actually, only a handfull of players remain cautious towards you. Myself was joking around with it at first glance. Only after I filtered you, I begun to see it for what it's worth. Laborious scum play. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 06:20 gumshoe wrote:
Well you'd be an idiot not to at least slightly accuse someone for such a dumb poll ) :
Another obvious scum minded WIFOM. You say so yourself that it would be naive for someone not to judge you based on that poll. Yet most of us thought of it as either a joke or bad/naive town play. Have you guessed that would happen? That you would get away with that? Ofc now, I use WIFOM on my part to say that, but here comes your posting to validate me and my reasoning. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 01:19 gumshoe wrote:
As of now i really dont get any bad vibes from him,but i didnt really expect to suspect anyone this early in the game, that said gladus first posts explain the odds distribution in the game in a refined but obvius way, his other post was ano obvius but not hostile critique of my poll( the poll was also meant to garner hostile potentialy opotunity seeking mafia responses but his response was just polite and reasonay dismissive) he has not provided ano opinion on lynching lurlers In 2 separate posts you accuse 2 different people of not questioning your poll. The reasons or the purpose you do that is irrelevant. What matters is that the only way you can do that is if you had already assumed that noone would hold you responsible for this poll. Because if they wouldn't, then you would simply be commiting suicide. There's no logical reason to do that whatsoever. So, it's clear that you used WIFOM logic in this poll. Now, although initially you fooled some of the most naive of us(like me) when some other players like Echelon and Midnight, started to doubt you, you gradually changed colors and stance. At first you feel the need to complement yourself, after taking more heat you go to (read the bolded parts) Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : next few posts it comes down to Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:You are getting defensive. I just wanted you to clarify a post. Now, how is your attitude so flip-floppy? On February 17 2012 11:48 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 11:43 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote:On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) : I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything. K very simple To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature provided the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all. I'm not trying to offend you, or needlessly discredit you; your post was just hard to understand, and I did not quite understand the purpose of what you did. post however you please. as a random aside: Mafia gets heated, so if I'm acting like an asshole just let me know and I'll tone back. On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote:
did you feel threatened? :D On February 17 2012 12:21 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote:
No, because it was baseless.
Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner.
Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it? Did I accuse you of being Mafia? don't twist my words. there a motives for both townie and scum to do so. Gumshoe does his weird poll thing, you ask if he could write his posts more legibly, and then take a very friendly stance of making sure no one is offended, asking for accountability etc. Now I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how you shift your attitude so quickly. I assume the :D in the next quote indicates playfulness. Then just a few minutes later you lash out against me, clearly telling me what not to do - "don't twist my words"And that last line: "there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."That may be true but a townie would never think like that. If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves. They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did. I was fine with your first post. But now you've earned my suspicion. ##FOS: EchelonTee T To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature could provide the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. That said I doubt that Ech would take this huge and obvious of a risk this early on(as he did) if he was maf, we still have tons of time, if Ech backs off we shall know if he's trying to hide after taking so much heat and therefore he's probably worried about an investigation or a lynch. His only route is to keep being an aggressive poster and hopefully dig his way out of the ditch with some phoenix wright quality analysis. I also really don't like Ech's controversial move of casting doubt on a specific player for not yet posting when there are several players still lurking. I don't care if you wanted to draw him out you could've just asked for his opinion on something. to finally go to Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone.
Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on.
But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation.
So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town.
What do you guys think?
Definitley need to take the risk of a lurker lynch, there are three lurkers currently in the game, manner zell and one more I forget, theres a 75 percent chance one of them is mafia. A chance I think we need to take cause were one townie short. You brought up this proposal rather meekly, no authority no anger, I gotta say its a bit suspicius. My current list of people I find suspicious Steveling( too light, doesn't seem stressed at any point isn't very aggressive. Also has suggested a no lynch, terrible option for town in this game because as I said where one short. Manner kiss(could just be a disillusioned player if so hes useless to us) DimmuKlok. You say almost nothing for half a day and then show up suddenly and accuse a) the most obvious seeming runt in the litter (manner kiss) and b) the second most obvious seeming runt in the littler(me) without suggesting anything new whatsoever. The mafia introducing a useless pole and then taking uneccecairy heat is an AWFUL idea, why would any mafia draw attention to themselves in a such a stupid way? A single investigation can easily ascertain wether or not their mafia, its way to risky for scum (im not even sure if it was a good idea for a townie to do... ok it wasn't a good idea for a townie period!)You also post for the first time in a while in relative tangent with Steveling who also hasn't posted in sometime... Both your posts are regarding lynching, one of you saying we should lynch lurkers another saying we shouldn't. Not so sure what i think of you but I definitely don't trust you. Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's. So as we all see, you try to tone down the polls meaning as more and more people are on to you. To top if all off you admitted that you lied! Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 02:18 gumshoe wrote:On February 18 2012 02:06 jaj22 wrote:On February 18 2012 01:22 blae000 wrote:
Either way, to tell who is lying or not from a click in the poll isnt the best way to go.
I'm not sure you're reading this properly. After being caught out, Gumshoe has admitted to substantial dishonesty through his early posts, including one that he doublespaced for EchelonTee. If what you're looking for is liars, we have a confirmed one already. The only reason I haven't voted him is that players who make this sort of ridiculous and dishonest plan in newbie games have a nasty habit of flipping town. I thought this was the liar game!( manga reference for the win!) I know it wasn't right to admit I lied, if i lie its better to just stick with it considering you didn't really have any proof that i didn't vote townie just your word, and i could just say I voted late by accident , the reason the told the truth is because I felt that I had to own up the big blunder I caused. I felt that by clearing it all up I could help us move on from this discussion. How in the name of earth am I the first to make a case against you is beyond me. You basically yelled "IM SCUM SUCKERS", while using that dubious poll to shift the blame to others and wifoming yourself out from the poll's sticky situation. Lets look now at how you approached those who accused you based on the poll. People that as you said in your own words Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:
A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so.
So you had every reason to push a case against the two of them. Lets see how you handled it. There were 2 of these players. MidnightGladius and Echellon. Your last response towards Midnight was Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:44 gumshoe wrote:
Gladius. I'm not gonna vote for you, but you are on my radar, as I am on everyone else's.
Your previous one was this,(bolded) Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:18 gumshoe wrote:
I agree with you Gladius, on all accounts, but my problem with all your suggestions is their so easy. Need to put pressure on someone? Look to the guy who messed up at the start of the game. Should we or shouldn't we lynch? Of course we should! It'd be foolish not too. Who do we lynch? how about the guy everyone hates and has not contributed whatsoever? As suspicious as I am of manner he could very well be just a disillusioned townie who really doesn't want to play a game in which he has no power, which is mega unlikely but still possible. As chaotic as my play is yours seems almost too by the book. You almost seem like a Damon Gant just waiting to burst out in a fit of demonic fire/lightning and ferocious claps!
So, after OMGUS him with that last sentence, then for no reason at all you back off of him. And all that after prophesying that those who pursue you will be mafia. Why was what? If you did plan to not pressure him at all, then why the OMGUS stance? Sense? Zero. The other guy who accused you was Echellon. This was your last dialog with him concerning the matter, Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 11:55 gumshoe wrote:
I apologize as well. This was just a random shot to start off the night, I mean theres really nothing to discuss until something happens and it beats just randomly accusing people, but ill try not to do something like this again... for this game at least!
Really? You apologize? How cute. You will notice how that WIFOM poll plot is activated again on this quote as well. "Don't try to accuse me cause I know that you wouldn't be so stupid to do so!" Your play is scum 100% gomshoe. You post in quantity but not in quality. You lie. You so admit it yourself. You make obvious WIFOM play. In fact your play is so weird that even in the off chance that you are a dazed towny it's still better to kill you off now. I can't imagine what messy situation you will cause in the 3rd day for example.
Theres a similar trend between you and glados, you both want to portray me as mafia but are equally willing to kill me if I'm a townie because I seem like a risk. If you just said I was mafia, that would be a case, instead your trying to say that killing a bad player( in a newbie game) is just as good as killing scum. Regardless of my crazy posting if I am a townie I will vote and build a case against the player I find the most logically suspicious(glados right now) , i will not openly accuse someone at random just to spark discussion , rather I'll let them come to me by setting myself up as the trap. If you think I am mafia and you are a townie, vote for me, but if I flip green don't you dare think that it was still a good decision to lynch a townie who was actively posting(albiet somewhat chaotically) and answering questions as best he could. It's never a good idea to lynch a townie instead of scum especially not in a game where a miss lynch costs more than usual, if you think I'm an awful townie just ignore me, but don't convince yourself that I'm more of a threat then the people WHO WANT TO KILL YOU!
Now on to you! Up until just a few posts ago you were still dealing with the fallout of a dumb suggestion.
You asked for a no lynch... and then blamed your bad decision on inexperience. Thats a bit fishy to me, especially when the discussion TO lynch has already been had at length, so your inexperienced and unobservant. So after such a silly suggestion that you admitted was silly(remind you of someone and some poll? I spy some hypocrisy!) you decide to post some unique analysis on several players you've analyzed at length right? Nope! You accuse me! The go to guy for everyone who wants an easy contribution!
You try to overcome the stigma of "don't comment on gumshoe, were all sick of him!" by saying that that is the atmosphere I want, in saying so you side step the entire point, you can comment on me, just comment on other players too, no ones stopped reading into me, they've just broadened out because they've realized that focusing on me too long is detrimental to the game (and also that a complete newbie who has less than a hundred posts on team liquid let alone on tl mafia is probably not this elaborate and risky) ,
the point is to keep all your options open. You don't have to stop suspecting me, I encourage you too, what I did deserves suspicion, but don't just focus on me, You have made almost no contributions this game, and your first major one was a stupid plan and the next one was an accusation against me. I'd like to hear your opinion on a few other people or topics, in tangent with your opinion on me if you wish, but running this same track will help no one.
|
On February 18 2012 12:04 Janaan wrote:
Ok, Gumshoe, just a side note, next time you post a case with multiple quotes like that, please use spoilers amd regular quotes. It took me a couple read-throughs to even distinguish between the quotes and your own words.
The problem I have with Gumshoe's arguements is that they seem generally like you're just attacking Midnight just because he was attacking you. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the analysis is invalid, I just question the motivation behind them.
I understand your reservations, the reason though that I focused on Gladose's assault on me is because that was pretty much the only thing he did until he was accused of being scum. His contributed nothing but obvious suspicions and the suspicions directed at me grew almost systematically despite the fact that my posting got better as time went on as opposed to worse. Also I'll remember the quotes thing next time.
|
On February 18 2012 12:32 MidnightGladius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 10:37 Janaan wrote:
Midnight, what are YOUR reads right now? You put forward MannerKiss as a pressure vote, then change to Gumshoe one post later because you didn't like his statistical analysis. Do you have any other suspicions? Any decent town reads? MannerKiss is actively lurking and needs to step it up or die. Some of the other lurkers are active candidates for modkills at this point, but he's not, and that means that we should pressure him. However, gumshoe's posting is actively hurting us, and while I'm not certain that he's mafia, I'm growing increasingly convinced. I would consider both of these votes to be pressure votes. I'd honestly rather pressure gumshoe to quiet down and concentrate than pressure MannerKiss to speak up :D My strongest other scumread lies on EchelonTee, for the reasons I mentioned earlier: His sequence of 1) being glad that there was activity 2) accusing me without a case 3) saying he would provide a case 4) telling DYH to support my lynch 5) not presenting a case 6) leaving the discussion seemed really suspicious to me. I'm not going to offer you town reads, because I don't feel that they help the town find and lynch mafia, and they let the mafia know who to target to slow down the town's momentum. If I think a player is town, that doesn't mean that we're in agreement on any particular read, and vice versa. Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 10:56 jaj22 wrote:On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote:I love the activity though, so refreshing So much for the activity. Neither DimmuKlok's defence nor Steveling's reads have shown up. MannerKiss produced one post with town reads and the obvious target. TKHawkins and Zelblade haven't shown up at all. MidnightGladius apparently thinks that telling people they make no sense is a valid defence. C'mon guys, you can't all be scum. I'm off to bed. Hoping that someone pulls an awesome town-leader performance overnight and gets a proper vote going, because it's going to be seriously tough to get a majority on scum at this rate. You apparently think that nonsensical attacks should be taken seriously. If nothing else, vote with the proper formatting so that it will get counted properly. You're missing a colon at the moment. That's the kind of posting that I really don't to have to deal with in the lategame :S
I put alota work into that wall of text! Can you at least read a bit of it?
|
Well I'm going to sleep soon, so midnight you'll get your peace and quiet.
Last point though, my main problem with you is that your posting that was directed expressly towards me got more hostile as I generally started contributing more information.
You never once doubted your suspicion you just grew steadily more suspicious of me.
Same thing with Ech, you suspected him at the start of the game and you still suspect him now, more so, anyone else you suspect?
Oh yeah Manner, the easy pick you made from before, you have basically said the exact same things as you said earlier before you were under pressure,your presenting old information as if its new and useful, its really neither.
To me that seems pretty scummy. Also are me and Ech on the same team? So let me get this straight I go on irc with him instantly the moment the games started, tell him about my "awesome" poll, get the go ahead from him cause its such an awesome plan and tell him to call me scum to draw attention to me and him so wed be flamed so much that eventually it would seem too obvious that we were actually scum?
Acuse one of us, or at least say its one or the other because the above is a theory far more incomprehensible than any of my posts. Seriously you still haven't contributed anything whatsoever, your proof against Ech is that he voted for you and backed off, he told us in advance he was going out long before he accused you. Weak sauce man , also wait till he presents his case sometime before the lynch before you say he doesn't have a case, maybe he wants to see you squirm a bit more. Oh one last thing, someone has a suggestion for you
"You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching."
Guess who said that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
