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On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:
And that last line:
"there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."
That may be true but a townie would never think like that.
If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves.
They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did.
Speculating on how townie and scum may or may not act.
On February 17 2012 13:21 slOosh wrote:I would try to avoid guessing (and then announcing) how people will act as 1) People have different playstyles and so you can have two townies who act very differently (but with pro-town motives) 2) If they are mafia they can just do whatever you don't do and cast confusion upon the town. Talking about how they will act or not is not a solid way of finding them. It is otherwise known as WIFOM and is something that should be avoided.
Advising that you shouldn't guess how people will act, and that WIFOM is bad.
Explain this inconsistency.
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On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset 
You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!!
On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:
You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching.
Indeed, I'm glad that you are.
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On February 17 2012 13:51 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 13:19 EchelonTee wrote:
Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability. I FOSed you. That isn't soft accusing. I'm not voting for you since my goal for town is active discussion by all members. If all I did day 1 was focus on you, then the other 3 mafia will be content in lurking all they want. 1.
Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people?
You are friendly to the guy you are suspicious of and antagonistic to someone you are indifferent to. You have every right to act in which way you like, but doing something like that drew my attention. 2.
Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off.
Calm down. The worst scenario for town is to have discussion dominated by two townies going at each others throats. So unless you think I am mafia, I would suggest that we both keep the town's best interest in mind and promote a good atmosphere. 3.***** Was typing this up before more people posted. Going to put it up so people understand my stance, but as I say in the last sentence, pursuing this isn't helpful. Its only 6 hours into the day so we still have plenty of time. Let's not get distracted by this but start getting people to post.
1. There are 4 Mafia, unless you are presuming that either you or I are Mafia. I'm going to assume that this was an honest mistake.
2. My point was that I was not being friendly to gumshoe; I was just trying to be civil. And I was only antagonistic to you after that one post, when I was no longer indifferent.
3. Ok. I responded as such because you FoS'd me twice. that's like, double the suspicion.
on the plus side, since I'm an asshole, people at least had something to talk about. I'm sleeping now, so I hope the euro's pick up the conversation.
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On February 17 2012 13:52 slOosh wrote:
EBWOP:
"other 3 or 4 mafia will be content lurking"
Emotions got the best of me. Not assuming you are mafia.
you ninja'd me!!
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Oh WOW I totally went crazy, for some reason I thought sloosh double fos'd me, when it was DoYouHas who first did so. holy overreaction, batman.
lol @ MannerKiss dropping a one liner and fading away
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I'm going out tonight, so I can't post substantively at the moment.
Someone asked me about the people I was aggressive towards.
DoYouHas? Uhh I don't remember being aggresive towards him, I simply responded to his FoS.
slOosh? needs more info
gumshoe? he's the bastard stepchild of Sinensis and Bluelightz (from my normal mini game). That means, making bad, complicated plans, and posting lists of stuff. Does not mean he's scum. Not very helpful, but not scum at this point. I directly accused him because I thought he would panic if he was mafia.
FoS: DimmuKlok
Why? In his first post, he agrees with gumshoe's list posting thing (which is not optimal, fyi), but doesn't post as such with the excuse that he has no suspicions yet. not overly suspicious, and does hint that these list should be private, but this feels to me like he is asking people to post lists, while giving an excuse for him not to. This is anti-town.
Next, he accuses MannerKiss and gumshoe, who are the most obvious and easy to pick on targets. Scum love to target 1. obvious noobs 2. people acting rly strangely, because they can post "logic" about how said person is scummy, even though they are just picking on sub-optimal play, not necessarily scummy play. I did this repeatedly in my past games as scum. This makes me suspicious.
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On February 18 2012 09:31 jaj22 wrote:
Probably much too early to be putting people in bold red, but I'm bored waiting for all the lurkers to post.
Never too early to do so, unless you're making wild, baseless claims. And if this kind of activity maintains through the game, town is in good shape.
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On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
No. I will eat a baby if that happens.
+ Show Spoiler +not really, but seriously, no.
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On February 18 2012 09:42 MannerKiss wrote:
Sorry i've been absent, work related stuff. Trying to catch up on the thread.
Doyouhas pretty strong townie feeling to me.
gumshoe - trying my best to overcome some scummy feeling from the earliest post, but it seems to have cleared up a little since the poll.
Dimmuklok giving me the strongest scum vibe of all so far, (and not just because he's aggressive toward me).
ET - also giving off a townie feeling
i'll catch up on everyone else when i get home this evening
don't buddy to me, I don't like that. Talk about my points, if you agree with me.
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On February 18 2012 09:47 MidnightGladius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:42 MannerKiss wrote:
Sorry i've been absent, work related stuff. Trying to catch up on the thread.
Doyouhas pretty strong townie feeling to me.
gumshoe - trying my best to overcome some scummy feeling from the earliest post, but it seems to have cleared up a little since the poll.
Dimmuklok giving me the strongest scum vibe of all so far, (and not just because he's aggressive toward me).
ET - also giving off a townie feeling
i'll catch up on everyone else when i get home this evening Welcome back! The last we saw you, DYH was your first scumread. Now, he's "pretty strong townie"?
He was trolling, most likely. You are not.
##Vote MidnightGladius
more after these messages!
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EBWOP:
##Vote: MidnightGladius
Apologies for posting in a spammy style. I am literally changing into a suit while watching people post this stuffz
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On February 18 2012 09:51 MidnightGladius wrote:
Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers?
you're hilarious.
DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK
no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing
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Wow, you seriously won't let me go out at nght? jeez you're an ass lol. dun slander me just cz im nt in thread atm
look at jaj's reasoning, then my reasoning. they're similar. i think u scum for same reason. u havent even responded to jaj's post, juist say "he dont make sense". u cant even respond legitimately. oh I'm scummy just for accusing you, eh? that's called OMGUS. u have no case on me brody. respond to jaj's case on u or die
fr phone
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trackdoor, my plan is to lynch scum. as townie, i'm nost supposed to have elaborate plans. why would u assume that i have a master plan
can ppl stop ignoring my post on dimmuklok. stop saying that i'm doing nothing and posting "flashy", i posted some analysis.
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oh shit, deadline is a lot earlier than I'm used to. It seems the consensus on people voting for me was "he accused someone without a case!11!! and disappeared into the mist!!11!!"
dudez, I said I was going out and could not post substantively. cut me some slack. Going to make one big defense post, and one big analytical post in the next hour.
some random notes:
None of the analytically minded players have tried to hammer me yet. I find this surprising; sloosh could have rallied the town to lynch me by now, if he had wanted to. he has the posting ability, and enough people have bandwagoned on me. I don't support a lynch on sloosh atm.
Someone said that flashy and aggresive play isn't inherently scummy. that's true. I think what a lot of people have disliked about me is that I am trying to "act on my own" (individualistic), while not having "clear intentions". For the former, I have pressed and poked a number of people, and addressed people's concerns on me (or am going to, shortly. seriously). If I really wanted to ignore town, I could just, ignore town, and not address anyone and just glorify my own reads. I'm not interested in that. Secondly, I ALREADY stated this, but I do NOT have an overarching plan! townies arent supposed to! I read the thread, see who I think is scummy, and post analysis on them if I feel that they are scummy enough. thats it. I can be more transparent in who I think is scummy, but you're not goign to get anything more out of trying to make it seem like i have hidden agendas.
also: someone said something along the lines of "we need a town leader soon, this is going bad, lots of inactivity". Firstly, this is a newbie game; I don't expect any epic, super accurate analysis to come out of the blue, ESPECIALLY on Day 1 when reads are notoriously hard. The game is going decently atm. there is a LOT of content in the thread right now, its just if people are willing to read into it.
writing up my posts now, pls dont accuse me of saying im going to post and not posting, cuz im working on it now -.-
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Decided to divide these up, since time is so short.
zelblades:
On February 18 2012 14:02 zelblade wrote:I believe that EchelonTee is mafia. What first caught my eye is this: Show nested quote +
If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT.
What is the motivation for a townie to post this? He states that he wanted sloosh to post, but this seems like he is trying to throw some suspision onto him. Besides, why sloosh? At that point a large portion of the players had not even posted yet, yet of all of them he targert sloosh. Again, what is his motivation for wanting to call out sloosh in this way? He believes that sloosh is a good player and thus wants to discredit him by planting seeds of doubts in the minds of other players. 1.He later proceeds to get into an agurment with sloosh. Here, his attitude seems to be really defensive. As sloosh has already mentioned, this statement below is really defensive. He than goes on to FOS DimmuKlok, but never actually follows up on it. In fact, he goes ahead to vote MG around 20 minutes later with no reasoning at all whatsoever. Note that he never mentions MG at all throughout his entire filter but simply jumps onto him upon seeing jaj's case on him. 2.I believe that EchelonTee is scum. ##vote: EchelonTee
1.You're assuming that sloosh is town. Before the game, I said that I would be looking out for DoYouHas and Sloosh, because I know that they are good. If they town, thats great. If they are Mafia, that's bad. So I directly addressed sloosh so that I could get a read on him. It got sloosh to post, which can be only good for town. At that EXACT point in time, do you really think that I thought sloosh was mafia? I had NO read on sloosh because he hadn't posted, which is exactly why I wanted him to post. Was it an aggressive, perhaps needlessly so, way to go about it? perhaps, but it got the ball rolling.
2. First of all, I was away from thread. If you think I'm lying, that's fine and dandy, but you have no substantive case if you're basing it on "he accused Midnight without a case"; I was UNABLE to make a case then. I have the ability to be suspicious of more than one person, even if I don't post exactly so in the thread (gasp really?). Seeing midnight respond badly to jaj's post, which echo'd my thoughts on Dimmuklok made me want to vote midnight. Saying that I never followed up on Dimmuklok is misrepresentation: I ALREADY posted lines on him, which no one really cared about. You make it seem like I FoS'd him with no evidence. I did. here look
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blae's:
On February 18 2012 19:55 blae000 wrote:Just woke up, read the thread! There is alot back and forth, but two names that stick out the most to me is Ech and gumshoe. Ech: *He starts off by posting: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll. It may not be the biggest anti-town play ever. But its definitely not a pro-town post. One line, calling someone out at the very beginning for making a mistake. I agree, first thing I though when I saw the poll was :"dafuq is this guy doing? scum much?" But then again, posting this oneliner doesnt feel pro-town to me. 1.*Then he continues with: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 11:23 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 10:35 jaj22 wrote:
Do I want to lynch lurkers on day 1? At a gut level, absolutely. It's not necessarily optimal though. If we have someone who's both active and scummy, lynching them is a better choice. However, that's much more likely if we don't let people lurk, so it's important to maintain a real threat.
I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs. If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT. Which I also find anti-town more then pro-town. The lynching lurkers part is fine, but the last sentence is overly agressive so early in the game. If it was a way to get him to post and it turns out your town, I dont like your style. With this short agressive post you are not giving anything valid to the rest of us in town. 2.*After an ok post where he defends himself from a FOS, this mess starts: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 12:05 slOosh wrote:Heartily agree that we cannot just talk about policy forever. However. Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 11:23 EchelonTee wrote:On February 17 2012 10:35 jaj22 wrote:
Do I want to lynch lurkers on day 1? At a gut level, absolutely. It's not necessarily optimal though. If we have someone who's both active and scummy, lynching them is a better choice. However, that's much more likely if we don't let people lurk, so it's important to maintain a real threat.
I agree, we should lynch lurkers. in a 12 man setup, Mafia can't lurk as easily or they lose like nubs. Newbie III is an example. with 15, they can hide away, as we lynch scummy looking newbs. If sloosh doesnt post within 12-24 hours, I'm going to presume that it's because he was busy posting in scum QT. Why did you post that last line? On February 17 2012 12:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Because I wanted you to post. On February 17 2012 12:13 slOosh wrote:
By threatening me with the label of mafia if I didn't? On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote:
did you feel threatened? :D and so on.... Earlier I said I sided with Ech.. I filtered him to read up on his actions and started to regret taking his side in that arguement. While sloosh may have been overly defensive, he atleast brought up some points in his posts. He asked some questions. Ech responded with (again) way to agressive post, with no points or questions that could force out some useful information. Then it got out of control imo. Both of them coming of as suspicious, and continuing the posting while it should have stopped. But the very first posts(I quoted) is examples of posts i get suspicious of from ech. 3.*After the situation with sloosh settles down, I just dont get what Ech is trying: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 13:32 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!! Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:
You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching. Indeed, I'm glad that you are. Giving excuses for his agressive posting. Which he also did earlier. And then this post: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2012 16:25 EchelonTee wrote:
Oh WOW I totally went crazy, for some reason I thought sloosh double fos'd me, when it was DoYouHas who first did so. holy overreaction, batman.
lol @ MannerKiss dropping a one liner and fading away More excuses, ok he might have realized he overreacted. But it's the last sentence that makes it weird, calling out MannerKiss. While MannerKiss did do that, this was after Ech vs Sloosh and people where talking about them, suspecting them. So this to me feels like this: "oh, my bad.. Btw, this guy doesnt look town at all lol".. The perfect moment to drag himself out of the hole by pointing at someone else. 4.*He gives a reasonable FOS on DimmuKlok, but sort of out of nowhere. I'm not going into it, because I doesnt provide anything in my case. *Lastly there is like 7-8 posts with one liners and just general bullshit.. Examples: + Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 09:43 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote:
Ok, just woke up and caught on the action.
So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1.
No. I will eat a baby if that happens. + Show Spoiler +not really, but seriously, no. On February 18 2012 09:49 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:47 MidnightGladius wrote:On February 18 2012 09:42 MannerKiss wrote:
Sorry i've been absent, work related stuff. Trying to catch up on the thread.
Doyouhas pretty strong townie feeling to me.
gumshoe - trying my best to overcome some scummy feeling from the earliest post, but it seems to have cleared up a little since the poll.
Dimmuklok giving me the strongest scum vibe of all so far, (and not just because he's aggressive toward me).
ET - also giving off a townie feeling
i'll catch up on everyone else when i get home this evening Welcome back! The last we saw you, DYH was your first scumread. Now, he's "pretty strong townie"? He was trolling, most likely. You are not. ##Vote MidnightGladiusmore after these messages! On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:51 MidnightGladius wrote:
Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers? you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing None of his last post gives anything to the town, while he looks active and sort of discussing with others. It's not "OMG YOUR SCUM" but it's absolutely not pro-town. This is the reason why Ech is on top of my list at the moment. 5.
1. If you saw gumshoe's poll and thought "dafuq this guy is scum", why didn't you say "I think you're scum"? I thought he was scum for that poll and I made my thoughts clear. More importantly, I made it clear that the poll was not an optimal idea at all, and town was able to move away from it as fast as possible. Seems pro-town to me.
2. I am not being "short"; I post a lot, and I have made large posts. Please don't mislabel me as someone who posts very little, insubstantially, while I have done neither. On the other hand, tell me, what exactly is the problem with being aggressive? When someone is aggressive, it forces other people to respond to them, to take stances, to address the issues. Would you rather me be passive, attack no one, and make everyone feel happy? I already said: if im being over the top, an asshole TELL ME TO STOP, regardless of what you think my alignment. But if I am not overstepping the line, and GMarshal can make it clear if so, me being aggressive forces people to post. This is GOOD for town.
3. I was having a conversation with sloosh. You seem to have an aversion to "one liners". When someone is having a direct back and forth in thread, one liners are not bad. They really arent. If that is the ONLY thing I have been posting, sure, that scummy! Do you REALLY think I have been posting one liners all game?
4. I thought sloosh fos'd me twice, but he didn't. end of story. Mannerkiss's post was hilarious in that it reminded me of what some vets might have done, like Kenpachi; respond utterly nonsensibly to someone's question. I did NOT say "btw this guy doesnt look town at all". I was responding to thread. You know, how town should be doing.
5. In the lines that you quoted, I did the following: 1. say that a no-lynch is bad, 2. say that MidnightGladius is scummy for going after a troll poster, 3. correct DoYouHas on a posting error he made in regards to me. I find it really offensive that you are saying that is BULLSHIT. Because it is not BULLSHIT. I am responding to stuff in the thread.
Lastly, you are saying that you dont find me to be "OMG SCUM", but not pro-town, and this is the reason why I am most suspicious. You should never lynch people you merely find not pro-town if you can avoid it. You can avoid it right now.
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trackd00r's
On February 18 2012 23:41 trackd00r wrote:Good morning. Zelblade, I'm glad you are posting again @DYH: Sorry for ignoring your post regarding gumshoe. It's well... I can't explain the situation anymore. I know that he is town because otherwise, their teammates would have told him to shut up and calm down. I'm very afraid that gumshoe style of posting brings more confusion a chaos to the thread. From now, I'm not going to get into more of his drama if there isn't a very good reason to do so. @TKhawkins: There is a huge difference between a player who posts lots of content less posts and one who post a few but deep and content. For example blae000 hasn't posted a lot of times, but his posts are good. Ech and gumshoe, in the other hand... I still believe that ET is our best candidate for lynching. I've already given my explanations why, as well as others. He hasn't replied my post yet. Sorry, but I cant wait any longer. ##Vote: EchelonTeeMannerKiss, please show up again with something new, or I'll consider switching my vote.
The only points you make are that I didn't complete my case on midnightgladius, and that I post "flashy and aggressive". I addressed the latter already, and will be addressing midnight. Your case has no substance.
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On February 19 2012 04:08 MidnightGladius wrote:
I'm much more worried about EchelonTee, considering that he came back and still hasn't followed through on his original promise to make a case on me. He referred to your case instead of providing reasoning of his own, and then told me to "respond or die." Right. Personally, I think he's waiting for someone else to take the hint and push first, much as he prompted you. His behavior lacks accountability to the town and to himself, and that's far more damning to me than any "flashy or aggressive play" heuristic.
I'm going to push you in a sec, don't worry. How has my behavior lacked accountability? I took massive hits going after gumshoe and sloosh, and now you. My reputation has been dragged through the mud. You are mispresenting me as trying to avoid responsibility, when I am taking a lot of it atm.
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THawkins
On February 19 2012 05:50 TKHawkins wrote:##Vote: EchelonTeeHe rides the coat tails of other people's thoughts + Show Spoiler +On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 09:51 MidnightGladius wrote:
Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers? you're hilarious. DoYouHas, I'm soft defending gumshoe now. I guess you were writing up your post without seeing the updates. We have the same thoughts though. Let's lynch MidnightGladius. Or DimmuKloK no seriously, I gtg. I love the activity though, so refreshing He then jumps along with jaj22's post and votes for Midnight. He would not be on my radar if it wasn't for that. I can't see a strong reason for the MidnightGladius vote especially with both the people voting for him not backing up their vote once it's questioned.
Have I been riding the coattails of people's thoughts all game? That's kind of different from most people's viewpoints, that I have been aggresive and individualistic. I have not been sheeping on people at all; I made an analytical post that looked a lot like jaj's, so I was like oh cool we think the same. that means my thoughts on dimmuklok are not unfounded, and midnight's awkward response (will be clarifying this in a sec) prompted me to respond in kind.
Posting analysis now.
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EPT
