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Sleeper Cell Mafia II - Page 29

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
January 30 2012 02:49 GMT
#561
On January 30 2012 10:42 Hesmyrr wrote:
I'm still not sure if he is really argumentative townie or scum. I really should meta him but can't really be bothered to do so at the moment, maybe after I lynch bumatlarge.

He's really argumentative as either.
Life can only kill you once.
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
January 30 2012 06:36 GMT
#562
On January 30 2012 05:33 Hesmyrr wrote:
Voting for town =/= mafia. I recall you posting you were going to ISO players who voted for Radfield, RedFF. (#) Pretty funny your accusation against Jackal58 and bumatlarge only consist of argument "they are experienced and they killed Rad, die!!!!!", yeah? (#)

However I'm almost sure bumatlarge is scum now, after finding this gem while looking over his post.
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 10:12 bumatlarge wrote:
On January 29 2012 10:00 Lanaia wrote:
You said it was radfield's fault he got lynched, did you not?
That part rubbed me the wrong way.

bum, who do YOU want to lynch most today?

Oh, I forgot about CWave. Could do for lynching him as well.


It was, he fucking hinted at inception agent but it went so far against the gist of what he was hiding it in, it seemed like he threw trash together to make a good post. Look at meapak's first post.


On January 26 2012 16:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Lol wow radfield, I’m actually shocked you slipped so bad in your first post. Your massive post was a massive warning to mafia and so hypocritical and here’s why.
On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
/confirm

On January 26 2012 10:40 bumatlarge wrote:
Depending on power roles, I'd say there are about 4-5 mafia? Leaning 5 and town having some blues.



First things first, please do not do this. Consider: Mafia do not know who their partners are. Therefore, high up on the priority list of the mafia is figuring out who the other members are. We need to not let this happen easily. The mafia have access to several pieces of information we do not, most specifically the number of mafia in the game. Players popping out and saying they think there are X amount of mafia are immediately getting a note in my scum book. Why? It's one way for a mafia player to indicate he is mafia to the rest of the crew, without raising suspicion. Makes sense? So no speculation on mafia numbers please, at least not right now.

Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

We need to ensure this does not happen. Therefore I propose that NO ONE call anyone else town. Players are either scummy, very scummy, definitely scum, OR not scum. That is all. If you think someone is almost for sure town, you still just have to call them 'not scum'.

Benefits: Stops mafia from finding clear night-kill targets, and increases the chance of them shooting themselves.

Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

Likewise, we should not be making medic lists. If you think a particular player should receive protection, that's probably cool, but no listing 3 or 4 people. In this game, that's just giving mafia a clear list of targets to shoot at, which is exactly what they need(a list). Medics in this scenario should be protecting whomever is most likely to die anyways, as there is no WIFOMing your medic protect around.

Third, and this is straight out of resistance mafia, no talking about mafia strats. We simply do not talk about optimal mafia moves, or likely moves, as that is simply a way for mafia to galvanize their actions together. In a game with minimal mafia interaction, we need to ensure that they cannot use the thread to disseminate information

So this game we talk about townie strats and townie moves, not mafia ones. On the flip side we do not call people likely town or town, we call them not scum or varying degrees of scum. Thoughts? Agreement or Disagreement?


LOLOL couldn’t you have hidden it better? For those who don’t see it, paragraph in red is basically a massive warning to fellow scum. Of course a scum post wouldn’t be complete without an obvious contradiction and rad doesn’t disappoint with his little ending bit about not giving advice to mafia.

Let’s start the day off right ##Vote: Radfield


I think the section we both saw as scummy, was the section radfield put the most effort into making. Therefore he may not have noticed how bad it looked when he said the second red paragraph. Also hence why I was sure radfield was scum when he basically called MZ town after posting that.

It's nice to see you being aggressive lanaia. I want to lynch cwave.

If you don't know, this is the post Lanaia apparently had bad vibe about:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2012 15:41 bumatlarge wrote:
Meh it's radfield's fault

Didn't realize how close I came to actually getting lynched.

Okay, when you hunt scum the basic is trying to find a post that town would never make but scum would. And this, ladies and gentleman, is one. What Lanaia brought up honestly did not mean anything; literally anyone who thought Radfield defended himself poorly could have wrote that post without thinking. Bumatlarge could have simply said "well, that's what I really think. If Radfield played better his lynch could definitely have been averted" and that would have been the end.

Instead, bumatlarge refers back to the first post Radfield had made and tries to give really unconvincing explanation about how Radfield - because he was blue - deliberately wrote the red part and managed to screw himself. What? Did anyone understood what he meant to say? It feels to me that bum was really reaching for the explanation that sounds good and logical unnecessarily, and I can see only one reason why he would do that: I think bumatlarge panicked when Lanaia made that irrelevant attack and over-reacted. And only people who have something to hide would behave like that, namely scum.
##Vote bumatlarge

Also I still think CWave is VI.


Oh you filthy whore! People are voting me so I'm explaining why I had no qualms as town to oust radfield. If I said your lame excuse, that wouldn't be helping town. It sounds good? LOL that usually means it's true. You haven't touched on the actual substance of my reasoning, you are just guessing on why it could make me scum. The only thing that is hard to differentiate is if you really think I'm scum, or you are mafia, and either way you benefit from this. Please pay close attention to hesmyrr if I get lynched. Cwave being VI is probably the single most bullshit thing I have heard in the past few months. Zero explanation for it.

Also, people using breadcrumbs as a legitimate way to catch scum on the first day-


On January 26 2012 13:58 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 13:22 bumatlarge wrote:
I get the "calling people town" gig, but how would mafia figure out who each other are based on speculation? I don't see anyway I could hint that I'm scum without townies seeing it, or that townies could just fake?

Mafia are going to find mafia based on reads rather then hints I would think. And above those, broadcasts are going to give them an edge. Seems kinda pointless.

I would be curious as to what GGQ and jackal would know to look out for in the first game, but jackal was LOL, and GGQ for all intent and purpose was a townie.


One thing that might be of interest is that last game Ace sent me a cryptic message about which player to vote to kill... unfortunately his hint applied to two different players... so I made a post in the thread asking him to analyse the two, hoping for clarification.

So it's definitely possibly that mafia will attempt to directly communicate in the thread.


This is GGQ's response. Read that with the intention of finding breadcrumbs. All of a sudden I look pretty good in comparison, right? WRONG YOU NEUROTIC IMBECILE. This is why you don't scumhunt with your breadcrumbs because you fall for lame signals that mean nothing. I don't like to make people feel stupid but I have to if you want to actually win this.

Please look very closely at Cwave first, and then hesmyrr. I am more certain about the former.

Again, my list right now is

Ace
Jackal
Sandroba
Wiggles

... oh wrong sleeper cell, let me fix that

Cwave
Hesmyrr

GEEZ deja vu.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
January 30 2012 06:49 GMT
#563
On January 26 2012 10:40 bumatlarge wrote:
Depending on power roles, I'd say there are about 4-5 mafia? Leaning 5 and town having some blues.




You guys make me mad. Also my backspace key gets stuck so I have to avoid the habit of pressing it or it start to erase my whole post.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
January 30 2012 06:51 GMT
#564
So bum you got no thoughts on the redFF/Refallen interaction or Refallen's play / scumminess?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Lanaia
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1142 Posts
January 30 2012 06:59 GMT
#565
I'd really prefer we drop the whole how many PRs we have. We really don't need to out anyone. We've already lost one PR.

I'm only willing to switch my vote to Cwave or refallen today.
Wanna hear more from Scamp, GGQ and refallen.
<3 If you chase a mirage, the desert will swallow you.
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
January 30 2012 07:05 GMT
#566
On January 30 2012 15:51 Blazinghand wrote:
So bum you got no thoughts on the redFF/Refallen interaction or Refallen's play / scumminess?


As someone who has experience coming into a game late, it's a little rough to get a read on someone who says they made a wrong move earlier. Admitting something like that is a null tell to me. Honestly, I haven't got a scumr ead on redff at the moment, but it's inconsequential for what is immediately going on. Neither of those players are going to be lynched as far as I can tell, and netiher of them seem like they are going to be shot anytime soon.

I've told people before I'm not a fan of pointless questions
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
January 30 2012 07:50 GMT
#567
I'd say that given Refallen's posts this game, it's not a pointless question at all, and definitely not for you. It's also a question you didn't address.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Cwave
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands313 Posts
January 30 2012 09:37 GMT
#568
On January 30 2012 15:59 Lanaia wrote:
I'd really prefer we drop the whole how many PRs we have. We really don't need to out anyone. We've already lost one PR.

I'm only willing to switch my vote to Cwave or refallen today.
Wanna hear more from Scamp, GGQ and refallen.


So Lanaia, in your filter you poke a few people for some questions, talk about reallife and that's about it. No where do you actually post your opinion or take a stand on anything.

You also sway all over the place as for who to vote

On January 27 2012 16:21 Lanaia wrote:
I really have no idea who I think I should vote for at this point. I will be back in the morning to vote. I will be here less than I'd hope tomorrow because school, staff meeting, and work.

I kinda wanna just vote Cwave.


Reallife + kinda wanna vote without any reasoning

On January 29 2012 09:40 Lanaia wrote:

People I'd like to lynch today:
Bum
Refallen
Maybe Jackal.
.


No reasoning.

This also caught my attention concerning Blazinghand

On January 29 2012 10:47 Lanaia wrote:
We will not lynch him. Ever. Well, I won't but I will actively fight against it.
had pegged him as scum but things change.


Please give me argumentation or something usefull as to WHY you come to this conclusion. Why did you have him down as scum before and what did he do to make you change to the point where you would fight for him?


I've learned so much from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making a few more.
Lanaia
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1142 Posts
January 30 2012 10:19 GMT
#569
On January 30 2012 18:37 Cwave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 15:59 Lanaia wrote:
I'd really prefer we drop the whole how many PRs we have. We really don't need to out anyone. We've already lost one PR.

I'm only willing to switch my vote to Cwave or refallen today.
Wanna hear more from Scamp, GGQ and refallen.


So Lanaia, in your filter you poke a few people for some questions, talk about reallife and that's about it. No where do you actually post your opinion or take a stand on anything.

You also sway all over the place as for who to vote

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2012 16:21 Lanaia wrote:
I really have no idea who I think I should vote for at this point. I will be back in the morning to vote. I will be here less than I'd hope tomorrow because school, staff meeting, and work.

I kinda wanna just vote Cwave.


Reallife + kinda wanna vote without any reasoning

Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 09:40 Lanaia wrote:

People I'd like to lynch today:
Bum
Refallen
Maybe Jackal.
.


No reasoning.

This also caught my attention concerning Blazinghand

Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 10:47 Lanaia wrote:
We will not lynch him. Ever. Well, I won't but I will actively fight against it.
had pegged him as scum but things change.


Please give me argumentation or something usefull as to WHY you come to this conclusion. Why did you have him down as scum before and what did he do to make you change to the point where you would fight for him?




I have posted opinions.
The reasoning doesn't matter at this point for why I think blazinghand is not scum. I would prefer not to disclose.
I've felt bum is scum all game. Refallen's vote yesterday wasn't that great. Not sure why I wrote Jackal down in the first place. I've said why I think you're scum.
<3 If you chase a mirage, the desert will swallow you.
Lanaia
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1142 Posts
January 30 2012 10:21 GMT
#570
I'll disclose if I'm forced to.
<3 If you chase a mirage, the desert will swallow you.
Cwave
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands313 Posts
January 30 2012 10:38 GMT
#571
On January 30 2012 19:19 Lanaia wrote:
I've said why I think you're scum.


You have not! Why are you lying?

Your filter
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303792&user=154975&currentpage=2


On January 27 2012 00:22 Lanaia wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm just laughing so hard at what I've just read. Cwave, can you reread what's contained in that list, please. Honestly, it doesn't even look like you read it from what you posted.
I understand the whole degree of certainty thing, though. I think I agree.


Only your wrongfull preception on what i saw in the list and how i read it.
On January 27 2012 16:21 Lanaia wrote:
I really have no idea who I think I should vote for at this point. I will be back in the morning to vote. I will be here less than I'd hope tomorrow because school, staff meeting, and work.

I kinda wanna just vote Cwave.


You don't know who to vote for and then you "kinda" wanna vote for me. Useless and no argumentation as to why you would kinda wanna do that.

On January 28 2012 05:43 Lanaia wrote:
Still don't really like cwave, but I'll leave him be. Considering igrok said he's changing the way cell members communicate, I do not really understand why he assumed it would still be a message of 5 words or 20 characters. It doesn't logically follow.


After which you say you don't like me. Nothing about scum reads.

On January 29 2012 10:00 Lanaia wrote:
You said it was radfield's fault he got lynched, did you not?
That part rubbed me the wrong way.

bum, who do YOU want to lynch most today?

Oh, I forgot about CWave. Could do for lynching him as well.


No reasoning. Nothing.


On January 30 2012 15:59 Lanaia wrote:
I'd really prefer we drop the whole how many PRs we have. We really don't need to out anyone. We've already lost one PR.

I'm only willing to switch my vote to Cwave or refallen today.
Wanna hear more from Scamp, GGQ and refallen.


No reasoning. Nothing.
That's all in your filter. Nothing in the entire thread where you make any case or statement about me being scum or ANYTHING.

Why did you lie about this?
I've learned so much from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making a few more.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
January 30 2012 10:48 GMT
#572
On January 30 2012 19:21 Lanaia wrote:
I'll disclose if I'm forced to.


._. this is a really dumb post

cwave is a moron, but this was dumb.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
January 30 2012 10:49 GMT
#573
On January 30 2012 19:48 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 19:21 Lanaia wrote:
I'll disclose if I'm forced to.


._. this is a really dumb post

cwave is a moron, but this was dumb.


EBWOP never mind I think I misread you in the post before this.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
January 30 2012 10:55 GMT
#574
Vader I said very clearly that I think we should focus on the members of the Radfield lynch. Going away from that idea is anti-town. I don't mind looking into other people or questioning actions or whatever, I'm not expecting to nail the entire mafia team with this. However, actively directing the lynch target away from it is anti-town as we get way too many suspects.


Hopefully Navillus will answer my question to him whenever he decides to post again. I don't want that to get lost.


Lanaia what exactly do you want to hear more from me about? Just general stuff? Right now I want to lynch Bum or Cwave.
Cheese is good for you!
Refallen
Profile Joined August 2010
452 Posts
January 30 2012 11:04 GMT
#575
On January 30 2012 19:49 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 19:48 Blazinghand wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:21 Lanaia wrote:
I'll disclose if I'm forced to.


._. this is a really dumb post

cwave is a moron, but this was dumb.


EBWOP never mind I think I misread you in the post before this.


Nope, I'm pretty sure it was a dumb post.

BH, what do you think about the bumatlarge wagon?
Lanaia
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1142 Posts
January 30 2012 11:15 GMT
#576
Cwave, apparently i forgot to mention that your reaction to pressure bothered me. Can post quotes when ai get up in the morning as phone multiquotes is hard. Bums reaction was worse though.when I say bother, o typically mean "I think this person is scum." Other times I'm piggybacking on someone else's reasoning and simply rehashing tends to make people wary.
blazinghand, sorry I'm an idiot.
scamp, yes, general stuff. Liking you.
<3 If you chase a mirage, the desert will swallow you.
Cwave
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands313 Posts
January 30 2012 12:07 GMT
#577
On January 30 2012 20:15 Lanaia wrote:
Cwave, apparently i forgot to mention that your reaction to pressure bothered me. Can post quotes when ai get up in the morning as phone multiquotes is hard. Bums reaction was worse though.when I say bother, o typically mean "I think this person is scum." Other times I'm piggybacking on someone else's reasoning and simply rehashing tends to make people wary.
blazinghand, sorry I'm an idiot.
scamp, yes, general stuff. Liking you.


Ok..... WHAT then bothers you.
I can't argue without you atleast being clear on what you want to adress or have me explain.
Hope you agree with me that piggybacking on to people isn't really helpfull.
I've learned so much from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making a few more.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
January 30 2012 14:24 GMT
#578
That's a lot of words, considering I still have no idea what you were saying on the post you pointed out. Also rather interesting standard for pointless question you have there: apparently asking someone opinion on other players is pointless while someone stating she feel something off about one of your posts requires a full dignified response xD
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
Cwave
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands313 Posts
January 30 2012 14:29 GMT
#579
On January 30 2012 23:24 Hesmyrr wrote:
That's a lot of words, considering I still have no idea what you were saying on the post you pointed out. Also rather interesting standard for pointless question you have there: apparently asking someone opinion on other players is pointless while someone stating she feel something off about one of your posts requires a full dignified response xD


The other option is ignorning her one-line fillers. I don't think that's the best option.
Do you think she has made any contribution? If so, can you point it out to me as i then might have missed it.
I've learned so much from my mistakes. I'm thinking of making a few more.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
January 30 2012 17:51 GMT
#580
On January 30 2012 20:04 Refallen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2012 19:49 Blazinghand wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:48 Blazinghand wrote:
On January 30 2012 19:21 Lanaia wrote:
I'll disclose if I'm forced to.


._. this is a really dumb post

cwave is a moron, but this was dumb.


EBWOP never mind I think I misread you in the post before this.


Nope, I'm pretty sure it was a dumb post.

BH, what do you think about the bumatlarge wagon?


Your chief case against bumatlarge is this post:

On January 28 2012 21:38 Refallen wrote:
I'm not going to lie, I feel really retarded right now. Real life has been a continual bitch and things keep popping up, and I feel like I have acted very irresponsibly by joining this game.

So, to try and salve my guilty conscious a bit, here's a case on bumatlarge.

Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 17:26 bumatlarge wrote:
I've always been a fan of not saying who I think is town, and just saying who I think is scum. I think that's what radfield is trying to say.

I do agree with meapak, that one glaring middle section in radfield's post is suspicious, I think it's more of him over-emphasizing his point to a degree that he actual talks about the exact strat he is trying to prevent. I think the major offender is this: "We need to ensure this does not happen. Therefore I propose that NO ONE call anyone else town. Players are either scummy, very scummy, definitely scum, OR not scum. That is all. If you think someone is almost for sure town, you still just have to call them 'not scum'."

It makes the whole warning completely void when you push that, rather then simply not discussing your town reads.


Ok, so right off the bat, he buddies Meapak in trying to lynch Radfield, by claiming that he's breadcrumbing...

but he breadcrumbs
Show nested quote +
I don't see anyway I could hint that I'm scum without townies seeing it, or that townies could just fake?


here too,

Then when radfield calls him out on it,

Show nested quote +
Well maybe it is a hidden breadcrumb for me not to get shot, and I'm not scum? Your move kaiba.


What is this? He actually claims that he is breadcrumbing, and the reason for that is so that he "dosen't get shot"? Does this not scream I AM SLEEPER AGENT DON'T SHOOT ME to you? It does for me.

Then he pushes Radfield over and over again over that little 'not scum' part of the plan, and Radfield is lynched and turned blue.
Show nested quote +

Meh it's radfield's fault

Didn't realize how close I came to actually getting lynched.


Or maybe it's because you among many was tunneling him over a case which never really grew from the first point of Radfield establishing a "not scum" term to describe townies.

Really regret missing out on the timetable for the game and having to vote in less than a min when I woke up and checked the thread, and so just throwing my vote on Radfield not having read like 10 pages of the thread. That was just terrible by me.


I feel like this is a relatively think case. I do think that this is better-stated than the case on bum was during D1, and I am no longer convinced of his innocence.

that being said, that's the only post of substance you've made. Previously was just you derping up D1 and after that is you talking to your scumbuddy redFFin code, followed by some poorly phrased "pressure" on redFF and some random questions for me and Lanaia.

I challenge anyone, anyone at all, to look at Refallen's post and tell me that this is a guy trying to help out the town:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303792&user=100667&user=100667

he's done nothing helpful. he's communicated with his scumbuddy redFF. he's asked some random questions. He's made an acceptable case against Bum, but hasn't pushed it.

So uh what's he doing? this, ladies and gentlemen, is a skilled lurker. Refallen is gradually building up his post count and his interactions without actually helping the town. Look how carefully crafted his posts are to be unhelpful while seeming useful.

On January 29 2012 11:29 Refallen wrote:
But what made you think BH was scum at the first place and why has things changed, Lanaia?

And does no one else want to lynch bum?


You call that pushing a case?

you call that pressure?

No, I think it's obvious. Refallen is scum. Just LOOK AT HIS FILTER. SEE THE TRUTH FOR YOURSELVES. How am I like the only guy who realizes this. this should be an easy one guys
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
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