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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
So is risk.nuke around or what
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Man I'm amazed nobody understands that Erandorr is hustlin us as I have been saying
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
We'll need 6 people to move votes to Erandorr to kill him. Do we even have 6 people? I think we may just end up having to kill risk
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
risk.nuke you haven't voted? ._. cmon man.
pm
to: zbot
subject: purgatory
body: ##Vote Erandorr
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Here's my case against Erandorr:
On January 07 2012 02:45 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 02:25 Zephirdd wrote:
That's a misunderstanding from your part. I stated a few times earlier that I thought Palmar's (counter)case was better.
That one post you quoted with poor logic is a response to Refallen's question "Would scum stick out their neck?" and I just pointed out that it's perfectly reasonable. Right, and i'm adding that in addition to that, it doesn't even matter, just figure out if the case is good or not and lynch the scum. Addendum: is it concievable that this is a townie on townie situation? Or do we think one of these guys are scum? I guess the question i'm asking is "what are the odds that Mr Wiggles is unintentionally wrong"? Erandorr: Every day he's hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlinGuys Erandorr is hustling us. How do you know he's hustling us? Well let us look at his filter. Step 1) He is inactive. OK whatever. Inactivity happens. I accept that. But it's not just the inactivity. It's the hustlin. Day 1 begins January 04 2012 15:00 KST. Erandorr's posts between then and becoming active: + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 09:48 Erandorr wrote:
The last time I looked the game was full already, didn't even realize I am in this until now.
The biggest question for me right now is this:
Blazinghand are you WBGs Smurf? Or his long lost brother, maybe?
On January 05 2012 09:54 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:48 Erandorr wrote:
The last time I looked the game was full already, didn't even realize I am in this until now.
The biggest question for me right now is this:
Blazinghand are you WBGs Smurf? Or his long lost brother, maybe?
Yes clearly i'm WBG's smurf with thousands of posts This post is sarcastic. I am not his smurf. In case that's not clear. And the long lost brother part? On January 06 2012 09:16 Erandorr wrote:
Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow. So, he shows up about 18 hours in and asks me some questions. Then, about a day later he stops by makes an obligatory filler post to not get warned. At this point it's unclear whether or not Erandorr is, in fact, hustling us. He's done a good work of keeping up the hustle, you see. Maybe he's just been busy and wanted his only posts to be unhelpful insinuations about my love affair with the possibility of me being a smurf of WBG. Or maybe he's a hustler. ??? And then he becomes active. Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:39 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. I actually didn't roll scum. I just missed the start and don't seem to find a way into the game. I already stated with my brilliant 1 liner that I sort of dislike a Wiggles lynch and actually would like to lynch Palmar today. I don't quite know what to do with all the other crap that has been posted, since the only person I have a clear Town read on is you (YES IM TRYING TO BUDDY UP) So, Syllo here is like "hey guys let's go after E-dawg" And you know what E-dawg says? "Oh I just missed the starT" No you didn't miss the start ._. you were here and asking me if I was WBG, then dippped up out of here for a day, then came back and said "brb" and dipped up out of here for another 18 hours. Or rather, you did miss the start, but not in the "oops I missed the target" kind of miss, more like the "oh shit here comes that guy who owes me money i'm gonna dive behind this trash can" kind of miss. Don't be behind the trash can, E-dawg. Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? This would be an entirely acceptable post for a user with a history of putting on the pressure, and in fact, in context, may indicate some mad nerd balling. Is Erandor, in fact, a mad nerd baller? Let us see, oh wait, Zephirdd is obvious pro-Palmar. To be fair, it seems like Erandorr just missed it. That happens. On the other hand it means he gets no bonus points for a post like this. Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 02:11 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:56 Dirkzor wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. While I agree that palmar/Wiggles aren't our best lynch option, why would you rather hang Palmar? Meta? Because i feel that Wiggles case is bad. Whether it is intentionally to push an agenda or just bad i don't know. About your other targets I find risk the most scummiest. Why do you think Risk is scummiest and not Tyrran/me? If I am not mistaken then Syllos reasons to rather lynch Palmar have very little to do with the arguments Wiggles brought forward. On January 07 2012 01:59 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? Check the voting post and decide for yourself who I would rather like to lynch. Hint: it's obvious As for "why", I think I stated a couple times already. Ya, mistake on my side, sorry. So, I can see a couple possibilities here. 1) Erandorr's various odd posts have good context and he is a regular bro. 2) Erandorr is a scummy motherfucker and he is hustling us. Hard. This last post? It's more questions no analysis. Not inherently a problem-- I make posts which ask questions and don't analyze somehow. But those aren't the only posts I make. Let's take a look by contextualizing this with Erandorr's analysis posts. Oh no wait Erandorr hasn't done any analysis. He hasn't gone after anyone. He hasn't voted here in the thread. He is hustling us. E-dawg why are you hustling
Posts Erandorr has made since I have called him out for hustling us:
On January 07 2012 02:58 Erandorr wrote:
Shut up WBGs Smurf, I am trying to get into this.
On January 08 2012 03:50 Erandorr wrote:
##Vote: Risk.Nuke.
I will be on my way to my birthday party soon and killing people who are town on their birthday is just rude, isn't it?
I realize that I am being an asshole right now for not posting, but I seriously don't have time right now. And yes what makes me more of an asshole is that I was , as Syllo correctly stated, playing Dota instead of bothering to post in the days before.
On January 08 2012 03:50 Erandorr wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 03:40 Palmar wrote:
Cause atm I feel much better killing you than Erandorr. That should help -___-
As you can see, all he has done is continue to hustle. HE is hustlin us you guys
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Grack Wiggles and Palm have all been active recently-- but we'll need one more on top of that to lynch E-dawg
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
This is a legitimate question for you Syllo. What inspiration led you to the truth, that Erandorr is indeed hustling us?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
BTW if it looks like we're getting close to the deadline and there's no way to kill Erandorr, I'm going to move my vote to risk.nuke. I'd rather kill a reasonably scummy fellow than not get a D1 kill.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Palmar you're right Erandorr has been so helpful
oh no wait he's spend like 4 days hustling us.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Guys I literally have no idea what Erandorr's meta is but that doesn't matter-- he's flagrantly blatantly hustling us. Look at his filter! Every day he's hustlin
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:47 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm not scum, A nolynch would even be better then to mislynch a townie.
OH WOW GREAT ARGUMENT YOU CONVINCE ME NOW
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
I guess the real issue here is unless someone else shows up we can't hang Erandorr. Yo dudes are you here?!?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:48 risk.nuke wrote:
Blazinghand quit beeing a huge troll. You did some pressuring but that's all you've done, after that you just got convinced of your own selfimportance so please tune it down.
You made an argument that consisted of "well you guys shouldn't lynch me because i'm town"
Really? Why would you even say that.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:49 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:48 risk.nuke wrote:
Blazinghand quit beeing a huge troll. You did some pressuring but that's all you've done, after that you just got convinced of your own selfimportance so please tune it down. You made an argument that consisted of "well you guys shouldn't lynch me because i'm town" Really? Why would you even say that.
Like I'm not sure if you're aware of this but people can say that even if they're scum. If you want to convince me not to lynch you, you'll need to do better than that. The statement you made did nothing to help town, prove your innocence, or really do anything but take up space.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:51 supersoft wrote:
hey, is there an observer QT?
PM Zona
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:51 risk.nuke wrote:
Incase actually somebody belives I am town and could help me keep my head instead of falling for false propagande like we must lynch someone even if he is a townie.
._. come on man, you have like an hour to live. Be productive with it.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 08:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 08:53 syllogism wrote:
Palmar why won't you switch? Will you switch if we can get enough? Erandorr has done nothing this game
No this is wrong Erandorr has actively come to the thread and hustled us. Why on earth are his actions remotely acceptable
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
OK guys we're locked at 7/7 this isn't good. what's the plan?
I say we should lynch Erandorr but if there will be no Erandorr lynch today i will comrpomise for risk.nuke
but serioulsy where my ERandorr lynchersat
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 08 2012 09:17 Refallen wrote:
Just woke up. Are we switching to erandorr? Why not risk? And how long do we have?
On January 08 2012 08:38 Blazinghand wrote:Here's my case against Erandorr: Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 02:45 Blazinghand wrote:On January 07 2012 02:25 Zephirdd wrote:
That's a misunderstanding from your part. I stated a few times earlier that I thought Palmar's (counter)case was better.
That one post you quoted with poor logic is a response to Refallen's question "Would scum stick out their neck?" and I just pointed out that it's perfectly reasonable. Right, and i'm adding that in addition to that, it doesn't even matter, just figure out if the case is good or not and lynch the scum. Addendum: is it concievable that this is a townie on townie situation? Or do we think one of these guys are scum? I guess the question i'm asking is "what are the odds that Mr Wiggles is unintentionally wrong"? Erandorr: Every day he's hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlin hustlinGuys Erandorr is hustling us. How do you know he's hustling us? Well let us look at his filter. Step 1) He is inactive. OK whatever. Inactivity happens. I accept that. But it's not just the inactivity. It's the hustlin. Day 1 begins January 04 2012 15:00 KST. Erandorr's posts between then and becoming active: + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 09:48 Erandorr wrote:
The last time I looked the game was full already, didn't even realize I am in this until now.
The biggest question for me right now is this:
Blazinghand are you WBGs Smurf? Or his long lost brother, maybe?
On January 05 2012 09:54 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:48 Erandorr wrote:
The last time I looked the game was full already, didn't even realize I am in this until now.
The biggest question for me right now is this:
Blazinghand are you WBGs Smurf? Or his long lost brother, maybe?
Yes clearly i'm WBG's smurf with thousands of posts This post is sarcastic. I am not his smurf. In case that's not clear. And the long lost brother part? On January 06 2012 09:16 Erandorr wrote:
Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow. So, he shows up about 18 hours in and asks me some questions. Then, about a day later he stops by makes an obligatory filler post to not get warned. At this point it's unclear whether or not Erandorr is, in fact, hustling us. He's done a good work of keeping up the hustle, you see. Maybe he's just been busy and wanted his only posts to be unhelpful insinuations about my love affair with the possibility of me being a smurf of WBG. Or maybe he's a hustler. ??? And then he becomes active. On January 07 2012 01:39 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. I actually didn't roll scum. I just missed the start and don't seem to find a way into the game. I already stated with my brilliant 1 liner that I sort of dislike a Wiggles lynch and actually would like to lynch Palmar today. I don't quite know what to do with all the other crap that has been posted, since the only person I have a clear Town read on is you (YES IM TRYING TO BUDDY UP) So, Syllo here is like "hey guys let's go after E-dawg" And you know what E-dawg says? "Oh I just missed the starT" No you didn't miss the start ._. you were here and asking me if I was WBG, then dippped up out of here for a day, then came back and said "brb" and dipped up out of here for another 18 hours. Or rather, you did miss the start, but not in the "oops I missed the target" kind of miss, more like the "oh shit here comes that guy who owes me money i'm gonna dive behind this trash can" kind of miss. Don't be behind the trash can, E-dawg. On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? This would be an entirely acceptable post for a user with a history of putting on the pressure, and in fact, in context, may indicate some mad nerd balling. Is Erandor, in fact, a mad nerd baller? Let us see, oh wait, Zephirdd is obvious pro-Palmar. To be fair, it seems like Erandorr just missed it. That happens. On the other hand it means he gets no bonus points for a post like this. On January 07 2012 02:11 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:56 Dirkzor wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. While I agree that palmar/Wiggles aren't our best lynch option, why would you rather hang Palmar? Meta? Because i feel that Wiggles case is bad. Whether it is intentionally to push an agenda or just bad i don't know. About your other targets I find risk the most scummiest. Why do you think Risk is scummiest and not Tyrran/me? If I am not mistaken then Syllos reasons to rather lynch Palmar have very little to do with the arguments Wiggles brought forward. On January 07 2012 01:59 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? Check the voting post and decide for yourself who I would rather like to lynch. Hint: it's obvious As for "why", I think I stated a couple times already. Ya, mistake on my side, sorry. So, I can see a couple possibilities here. 1) Erandorr's various odd posts have good context and he is a regular bro. 2) Erandorr is a scummy motherfucker and he is hustling us. Hard. This last post? It's more questions no analysis. Not inherently a problem-- I make posts which ask questions and don't analyze somehow. But those aren't the only posts I make. Let's take a look by contextualizing this with Erandorr's analysis posts. Oh no wait Erandorr hasn't done any analysis. He hasn't gone after anyone. He hasn't voted here in the thread. He is hustling us. E-dawg why are you hustling Posts Erandorr has made since I have called him out for hustling us: Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 02:58 Erandorr wrote:
Shut up WBGs Smurf, I am trying to get into this. Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 03:50 Erandorr wrote:
##Vote: Risk.Nuke.
I will be on my way to my birthday party soon and killing people who are town on their birthday is just rude, isn't it?
I realize that I am being an asshole right now for not posting, but I seriously don't have time right now. And yes what makes me more of an asshole is that I was , as Syllo correctly stated, playing Dota instead of bothering to post in the days before. Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 03:50 Erandorr wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On January 08 2012 03:40 Palmar wrote:
Cause atm I feel much better killing you than Erandorr. That should help -___- As you can see, all he has done is continue to hustle. HE is hustlin us you guys
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EPT
