That simply comes down to me not being around for the deadline. I was at the movies and had to drop a friend off and I got stuck talking to his Mom -_-

I could have brought a case against him earlier, but that could have caused me to have gotten roleblocked and I thought I would be back in time anyways.

When Meapak questioned me about the hit, I confirmed that vig hits can overlap. This was supported by Sheth, who also stated vig hits weren't refunded.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Likes to take credit.

Not quite sure what to say about this one. I took credit on the syllo hit because I shot him. For the L lynch, I think its the strongest evidence that points to me being town.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Has kita ever considered me as scum?

Like I mentioned before, the main thing that bugged me was that you were buddying up with chez and myself. As mentioned in my notes, here were the things that stood out to me, but I felt there was a much stronger case against RoL for the reasons I've mentioned.

bum (good manner vig)
-responsibility points???
-soft defends chez, mason?
-unvotes hydra, seems unconfident
-claims trigger/blue
-supports GM's claim over LSB's, doesn't want to let both shoot
-Wishy-washy analysis of wiggles, no real conclusion
-only person around before lynch
-timing of role claim is weird

On January 06 2012 15:13 kitaman27 wrote:
If you're the scum, please just let me know so we can save everyone some time. I'd be willing to hammer myself if that were the case. Otherwise, let me write up my final case tomorrow.

I even tried to get you to claim scum thinking the game was over, just in case RoL wasn't actually scum (a long shot I admit). There was no way I would hammer myself.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-The syllo thing looks pretty solid, but it would have been much better if it was included in your list, or if you had posted that reason immediately after you shot him. It looks like you just found out that link. Are you just saying that to show how messed up the scum teams position was during day 3?
Explain your reasoning for hitting syllo. I'd like a little more then the below post.

I didn't shoot night one or two because we still hadn't lynched a scum and there were a limited amount of people who had actually set off my trigger. I could have shot you for making up the responsibility points or maybe curu for the way he handled the lsb lynch, but it was too early in the game. syllo wasn't on my night two list, because all four of my scum suspects were dead or confirmed town by the time I shot on night three. When we finally lynched L, I made my shot based on the outcome of the day.

Sheth and syllo were the two people who came out looking the worst. Sheth had made an analysis against myself, voted RoL and posted as the last vote. Syllo seemed reluctant to push an L lynch and stated that he was the safest lynch only after the town had committed to lynching him. After the day ended, sheth asks syllo his opinion of me and he says was leaning scum based on an earlier read. This was the first time all game he had even mentioned my name, yet alone having a scum read on me. It was still lylo from scum's point of view and he was setting himself up for a mislynch.

When I looked back at both players filters, neither made me think they were protown at all. I likely would have shot Sheth if I could find a good case that he was lying. He mentioned that he was sick and taking sleeping pills, yet was actively posting in election mafia and streaming for hours, but I'm not sure if Ver would have accepted that, so instead I shot syllo for the reasons above.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-I seriously doubt he wasn't the reason for BC dying. The remaining scum is a roleblocker. Seems rather convoluted.

RoL causing BC's death doesn't mean he is town, he could have simply claimed one of the mafia kps as his own shot.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
-Day 3 seems extrordinarily bad on mafia's part if RoL is scum. They seriously couldn't bus properly at lylo? L and RoL would have thought this out better I feel.

Day three looks even worse on the mafia's part if I'm scum. L gets lynched and syllo looks awful and gets shot. Hardly sets them up well for endgame.

On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote:
For both of you, explain why I am not scum. You both have thoroughly accepted this, and I am pretty neurotic about people assuming I'm town. One of you knows it, and the other has guessed it. RoL has looked into why I could be scum, and kita just seems like he can't argue I am scum, so he doesn't bother.

At this point, I think you're town because if you weren't you would have refused to move your vote off me last night. If I'm wrong, props to you. The reason I didn't push you on day five was that you openly shared your opinions, were the only other person around at the deadline on day two, which showed you actually cared about who town lynched, and that L flip-flopped his opinion on you so quickly after you accuse him on day three.

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

January 07 2012 15:09 GMT

#1242

mmk GG

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

January 08 2012 04:21 GMT

#1247

Still time left to change your vote bum! Prove to me that Batman is a real hero afterall

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

January 08 2012 16:53 GMT

#1287

On January 08 2012 15:33 Ver wrote:
The biggest WTF part of the game was the roleblocker. Let's look at what the roleblocker did specifically.

N1:

roleblock Gmarshal (shooting RoL , being shot himself anyway by other vigis)

N2:

roleblock Foolishness (shooting L, shot by mafia)

N3: Roleblock Sheth (shooting Meapak , would have committed suicide too)

N5: Roleblock Bum (shooting RoL )

Basically mafia roleblocks always hit the mark except the no shot/no lynch cycle and over the course of the game saved 4 townies and 1 mafia from death! Some of the roleblocks made sense (foolishness), while others were bizarre (gmarshal).

GM was roleblocked because he was essentially the only person that had declared he was shooting. Additionally, if he promised a shot and failed to follow through, he would be the target of day two discussion and possible vig shots. Sheth was roleblocked because he strongly hinted that he was shooting me. The only other alternative was Meapak, who had just subbed in. Chez hadn't posted in three days and meapak never had time to share his reads, so there was no indication he would shoot syllo. bum being roleblocked was due to the fact that he was the only vig alive. I felt that if he honestly wanted RoL to die over me at night, then being roleblocked wouldn't change his mind during the day. In addition, if I was shot, then it would never give me a chance to post the fake notes (which took forever -_-)

Blocking 3 town shots in exchange for 1 mafia life seems like it was a good trade and not blocking certain players that indicate they were shooting would rely on bad town play. The risk of losing 25% of your team doesn't seem worth the potential extra town death.

Roles that rely on host interpretation are always tricky since they are not clear cut, yet they drastically impact the result of the game.

Another problem was that all of the triggers in the game could be abused. Any vig at any time could role claim, force all the remaining players to activate the trigger, and then shoot as a normal vig at night. They could be roleblocked, but in a game where every town is a vig, I can see how the roleblocker would get overwhelmed pretty quickly.

The syllo shot counter-claim was essentially a way to get rid of my shot that all townies were supposed to have. We knew shots could overlap and I really wanted to distract from the fact that Sheth was roleblocked when he clearly intended to shoot me. I suppose I could have claimed one of the mafia shots or the unclaimed town vig shots. The problem was that our shots would have been poor vig shots and GGQ/Wiggles would open up questioning to why I didn't shoot someone I had thought was actual scum. I would have liked to have been able to claim it before the deadline, but I really did end up getting home later than I had planned. I knew I was already in a poor position, with Meapak being confirmed town if I didn't counter-claim, RoL already providing proof of his shot and being the target of the failed day 3 mislynch, and bum already being considered protown by most players.

Thanks for hosting Ver, Incognito, Qatol.

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

January 08 2012 21:22 GMT

#1294

On January 09 2012 06:06 Qatol wrote:
One mistake I think the mafia made is they were too afraid of triggering someone's shot. They went out of their way to make sure that under no circumstances could they be shot by the trigger vigis they knew about. This caused them to change the way they played the game and it stuck out. The problem with this style of play is that townies will naturally trigger the conditions in some circumstances. You shouldn't be afraid to trigger these abilities too as long as you're in a crowd of townies. It's only when you're the only one who triggers a shot that you should be worried.

The only trigger we knew about was lying. The rest we were in the dark about, so if there were some we avoided, it wasn't because we had knowledge of the roles. We knew about the apathetic vig by day two, but activating that trigger wouldn't have helped in any way.

On January 09 2012 06:06 Qatol wrote:
Also, I absolutely hated kita's claimed shot on syllogism. I thought he was going to win the game before that, but it stuck out as being really weird because he hadn't said anything about shooting syllogism before that. Plus Meapak had called a shot on Syllogism beforehand, which made it even weirder that kita would also shoot him (he could blame this on sleeping, but it's just one more thing that adds to the case).

Do you think there was a better shot I could have claimed? I hadn't mentioned wiggles or ggq much, so it would be just as weird if I had shot them. The mafia shots were mostly pro-town players or people who shot scum, so they were out of the question as well. If I claim to not have shot yet, that forces bum and me to shoot night four with only a single rber, which would out my claim as being fake in most situations. I could claim roleblock for the rest of the game, but that allows bum's shot to go through. If anything, I wish it would have been set up better or that we never got to a day four.

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

January 09 2012 16:59 GMT

#1301

On January 09 2012 17:21 L wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because our original plan was to have our RB stay up until the deadline, f5 the shit out of the page as the time came up, then stay on GM till he crumbed he was shooting a townie, then switch off onto someone else with a pre-written pm message to save time.

Then we didn't.

So I operated most of that day thinking that someone was lying through their ass about who hit who.

We tried, but we weren't able to pull it off in the 20-30 seconds that we had available.