EPTResponsibility Mafia! - Page 2
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
GMarshal is getting my vote. All he has given us is the idea of policy lynching the hydra, which includes sandroba who is one of the best players in this game. It's straight up beneficial to scum to get him killed off. In addition, GMarshal has stated outside games that he always suggests a Chezinu policy lynch regardless of his alignment. The fact that he brought it up here without actually pushing it looks very much like him bringing it up because he knows we expect him to. That's what I meant when I asked GM the question he hasn't responded to yet earlier. I don't even care if GM is right or wrong about the hydra because that's subjective (is he harder to read? are hydras better for town or scum?), the problem I have is that he doesn't offer us anything beyond that, and in a game of veterans only I'd expect us to do better than to policy lynch something on day one. All in all, I see no town reasons for playing the way GM is playing right now. Look to Cosmic Horror if you want to see how I'd expect a town GM to play on day 1. ##Vote GMarshal | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 21 2011 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar, what happened to your L suspicion? Gone with the wind? I can only vote one person per day. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 21 2011 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Can you guys clue me in to what you consider to be 'worth something'? Because you call everyone worthless, and I'm failing to see how that's any better than any of them giving a whole list of null reads. Most everyone you guys have mentioned has said who they find suspicious, and I'm just not seeing why you're calling these people worthless. I'll try to be nice but you're starting to annoy me VE. GM's posts are completely worthless, the reason is that nothing he has posted furthers our goals of finding mafia. Here's his best attempt at provoking/scumhunting in the thread: On December 20 2011 21:39 GMarshal wrote: A hydra is an account shared by two players, in this case SamuelLJackson shared by Curu and Sandroba. They are, of course the ideal target for a day one lynch! As they have the issue of being extremely difficult to read, because of the two heads. ##Vote: SamuelLJackson Also, as much as I love Chezinu, is anyone up for either policy lynching him or teaching me how the hell you get a grasp on his alignment? I enjoy his insanity, but its hardly conducive to figuring out his alignment. This is useless for a town point of view, the possible goal of this is to either get the hydra lynched (which he does a stunningly bad job at), or to provoke a reaction (which won't work because there is no actual case, just a policy, you can't argue with dumb policies). So, this post does nothing to further our goals. On December 21 2011 01:59 GMarshal wrote: Or we could just ignore roles and work on analysis, since in a half flip setup with completely unknown mechanics its going to be hard to sort out truth from lies. Funny, coming from the man with the least amount of effort put into the thread. Another worthless post. Sadly, GM isn't the only person posting like that. Read BC's only post in the game here: On December 21 2011 13:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: OK, this game is seriously wtf balls at the moment. To state a few things after my quick read through the thread. Bum and chez regardless of alignment have actively helped people regardless of what people may or may not believe. Their posts illustrate what I am saying. If you cannot find it now it will become apparent later. As for the general play of this game. It is responsibility mafia. This should just mean Ver has made a game that is designed to stop blatant asshattery. Playing badly will get punished is the general take. Now one point of this game that has me instantly glued to is the whole idea of RNG day 1 lynch. L is saying its anti town to base an initial lynch off it while palmar believes it is pro town. Guess what? L is right, Palmar is wrong. RNG the person who is lynched gives no real onus to the player or players responsible for the name being brought up and then lynched. In a game with a no flip on role mechanic will also not let us glean information about the games setup. Since the advantage of discussing lynch choices day 1 is forcing people to take a stand via analysis not luck. If you analyze player x and they flip town you look slightly bad. If the logic used was poor then information was garnered on the accuser. If you RNG a day 1 lynch it is a crap shot and you learn near nothing from the lynch except the few peoples stance on RNG who started the process. Now as Palmar is pushing an obvious shitty play I will quote something of his. Step your game up, for your post you have a filter of terribly uninspired posts talking about very neutral topics. BC only brings up three points in this entire post. 1. He vaguely says Chez/Bum might be useful at some point in the game. I have no clue how he reached this conclusion and he doesn't offer any explanation. 2. He brings up RNG long after the discussion on that had died down. There is absolutely no reason to even talk about it, either town does it early in the day or ignores it. This is why I never push the idea beyond the first few hours of the game, because it hurts discussion if it gets shot down. 3. He tells me to stop making vague posts (how ironic). Do you think any of these points further our goals in finding mafia? Do you think that because of this post we are more likely to hit scum today? I don't think so. Thus this post is worthless. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
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On December 21 2011 22:44 VisceraEyes wrote: @Palmar Why don't you tell me? I wouldn't want to spoil the surprise for you. No, you seem to be assuming that my entire reason for wanting to lynch GMarshal is because he's a lurker, instead of the reasons I gave when I voted him. If that is the case, there is no difference between GM and for example Sheth, who has produced even less content. The problem is your theory doesn't actually account for this, because it ignores the possibility I might be trying to lynch people based on WHAT they post, not HOW MUCH they post. The only explanation I can give you is what's true, I want to lynch GM because he's pushing a policy lynch on a good player instead of actually trying to find mafia in the thread. To give you some perspective on this, here is GM's opening post as mafia in Closed Casket Mafia, where he suggests a Chezinu policy lynch: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9966216 And here is his opening smurfing as ferryman in Cosmic Horror Mafia as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11036081 No policy lynch, actual scumhunting based on events in the thread. But, according to your theory, all this is irrelevant because I am solely out to get him because I'm trying to get a lurker lynched, so you must now explain to me how me picking GM over someone like Sheth fits your theory. You cannot actually do that because I'm not scum. Since you cannot do that all that remains is to see if you're wrong because you're dumb, or if you're wrong because you're scum. I'm leaning dumb at the moment. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 21 2011 22:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Hell, I'd be thrilled if you gave a reason why you voted for GM vs your other scum reads BC and L. Anything really. Where did I say that BC was a scum read? Please stop putting words in my mouth. I think my exact words regarding BC were: On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote: Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post. This post is aimed at syllo, in an attempt to open a discussion with him, which should help town both scumhunt and get a read on both of us. As for L, I already explained I can only vote for one person today, and I think the case against GMarshal is stronger. In addition, I'm usually more comfortable lynching players I know because I know what to expect from them. | ||
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Palmar
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On December 21 2011 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote:There could be any number of reasons why scumPalmar would choose GM over Sheth. You provided one already - you have meta on GM and feel you could more easily lynch him over Sheth, a raw newbie in TL Mafia. Perhaps Sheth is your scumbuddy. I have no idea why you chose who you did, but my point is that you didn't say why. You gave 1 reason, that GM is pushing policy lynches for 4 posts almost at the beginning of the day, and later after I cased you claimed to have meta on GM that shows that he's scum. First off, I used Sheth as an example. GGQ has exactly one post in the thread, Foolishness has a few one-liners. It could be any of the lurkers. I picked GM because of what he posted, not because of how much he posted. Do you honestly think I picked GMarshal as an easy lynch target? On December 21 2011 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote: As for L, you have been slinging shit at L all day. You commented on GM, but felt the compulsion to agree with Foolishness that L needs to be lynched today before you decided to come play with us. And only now have made a case for GM, with your vote. Your point on lynching players you know is fair, but it begs the question: why haven't you pushed GM all day instead of L, a player you don't know? How do you propose we lynch mafia who doesn't post a lot? Do they just get an auto-pass in your book? I also want to point out that you're just wrong I've been slinging shit at L all day, I've made exactly 3 mentions of L this game, one here where I complained about the neutrality of his opening post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12838359 The second is the post where I agree with Foolishness that L would be a good kill, and then point out to you that all of L's posts are extremely careful and ambiguous, and the third is me asking syllo what he thinks about L's posting this game. I wouldn't exactly call that slinging shit. Not that I'd actually be fine with lynching L since his posting is still terrible, but I see less scum motivation for posting what he has posted, than I see in GM's posts, thus the case on GM is stronger and that's the one I'm focusing on now. I cannot actually do much about GM when he doesn't post in the thread. Immediately after he suggested this policy lynch, I posted this question towards him: On December 20 2011 22:18 Palmar wrote: Why is all you have to offer policy lynches GMarshal? Are you playing to your meta of suggesting a Chezinu policy lynch every game? Which he never answered, and hasn't actually posted anything since. Did you want me to ask it repeatedly? I'm not sure what you're expecting of me here. Just assume for a minute that GM is scum, how do you expect us to lynch him if we're disallowed to go after him because he lurks? You're defending a scum candidate based on the fact that he's not posting. Even you should see what's wrong with that. What do you think about GM now, ignore my alignment for a second, go read his posts and what they mean, and try to figure out for yourself what his alignment is. Think about what motivation he may have for posting what he's posted. Do you read those posts and conclude he must be town? null? I really, really doubt it. Of course the defense is good, I'm not scum, so it must be good by definition because it's true. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I even stated that GM has said he'd push for a chezinu policy lynch regardless of his alignment. However, that shouldn't mean he gets a free pass because of it. The case is what I wrote in the post where I voted him, actually, instead of reading my case, read his posts. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
[QUOTE]On December 21 2011 22:56 Palmar wrote: [QUOTE]On December 21 2011 22:44 VisceraEyes wrote: he's pushing a policy lynch on a good player instead of actually trying to find mafia in the thread[/QUOTE] Dear diary, My eyes initially showed me the color of red when I at the palm... I though the pain that I was receiving came for the hand and the only way to stop the pain from spreading was to cut it off.. but then my heart started to tell me a different story and my eyes began to doubt what it had seen. Could it be that the palm really cares about me and that it is just in pain because of outside sources? I believe the palm is on my side... to remove it... I'm not sure if I can do anymore... as long as it is on my side and is not a cancer.. oh my heart... you know are now watering my eyes to clear my vision... My heart is so touched by the palm... I now understand how some can read palms... through the heart and not the eyes does one receive its signals.. Oh how I can't stop but continue to clear my vision with water... How much my heart wants to believe that it is true... my eyes my look again once the water has past... Take courage heart...[/QUOTE] The good player is Sandroba, not you. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
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@Jackal58: In theory this town is less dumb than the average TL town... although I'm starting to doubt that now. I'm trying to get GM lynched. How do you like that idea? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 22 2011 01:58 GMarshal wrote: So, I'm not even caught up with the thread at this point, (I'm on like page 16), I just wanted to say that I've been occupied with other things and haven't had a chance to really do anything yet. I'll be trying to give the town something to work with when I get out of work in about 4 hours. Until then I have spreadsheets to sort and other such lovely joys. Sorry people, I hate to lurk, I'll do my best to make it up to you guys when I get back, but yesterday I was incredibly busy. Can you at least stop long enough to tell us if you actually intend to continue pushing a policy lynch on sandroba/curu? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I've played 25 games I think now on this site, 10 of those had mafia lynched on day one. That's 60% chance of a town lynch on day one, not 98%. | ||
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Palmar
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SNMMII - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins RTM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins WaW2 - Brazilian Conspirator - Mafia/Conspirator Wins Merc Mini 2 - Juliet - Town wins BC's AA - Joker - Batman/Town wins EHM - Citizen - Town Wins SHM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins Mini Mafia x - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins XLV - Red Pyro - Mafia Wins PYP:I - Ace - Town Wins Town Lynches: XLIV - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins LOTR - Gollum - Gollum/Town Wins XLVII - Vanilla Town - Draw Steamship - Records Cop - Mafia Wins SMG - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins Student - Vanilla Town - Town Wins XLVIII - Floridian - Mafia Wins RM - Vanilla Town - Town Wins CHM - Doctor - Eldrict Abomination Wins Personality - Flamewheel - Mafia Wins SNMMV - Mafia Goon - Mafia Wins PTP2 - Mafia Traitor - Town Wins CCM - Virgin - Mafia Wins PTP - Bro of Destiny - Town Wins SNMMIII - Vanilla Town - Mafia Wins ##Unvote GMarshal ##Vote L You just fucked up bro. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
It's irrelevant to the game. If you're talking about the list, it's simply all the games I've played from my profile, sorted depending on what got lynched on day one. The format is: Game name - My role - Win faction. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
He just voted me because I "lied" about day 1 lynch ratios, which is irrelevant to the game. Him voting me for that is however not irrelevant to the game. I agree on VisceraEyes being town, that's why I actually spent all that energy defending me. I don't see what his alignment has anything to do with what L just did? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
In your text L even concludes I'm probably not mafia. Again, what has his read on VE to do with anything? What the fuck? | ||
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