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Ok because of you guys saying there's so much useless people I just looked into people I thought might be useless and found truthbringer to be strange
On December 05 2011 01:57 TruthBringer wrote:
@prplhz
We don't have to do anything on the first day. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something.
I admit that we have more data if we hang someone, because we can see that person's alignment and who voted for him and who voted elsewhere. But more data doesn't mean we are in a better position. If we hang a powerful blue, and the mafia isn't overrepresented in the vote to lynch him, that does us no good.
You seem to think that I can pick out scum just based on bad ideas, but some people are just not good players or come up with bad plans, how am I to know the difference? Like I said, I don't have the experience right now to make the distinction.
Also, there can be differences of opinion. You and I might both be good guys and honestly have different opinions on whether it is a good idea or bad idea to hang on the first day.
On December 05 2011 12:36 TruthBringer wrote:
Okay, prplhz "voted" for me in this thread. He never voted for me in the voting thread even though I reminded him to in this thread. (See page 9).
The way I see it is this . . . he leaves less evidence behind if he doesn't vote for me in the actual voting thread. The voting thread will end up being fairly short, easy to read through. Whereas this thread is already becoming a bear.
He was hoping to start a tidal wave against me and it didn't work out, and so he never actually voted for me in the voting thread. He doesn't want to come off as a frequent vote changer, etc. I think it is pretty scummy that he would so quickly vote for me in this thread, but not follow-up on it in the voting thread even after I reminded him to.
First of all, that's basicly everything he said so far.
Now on to what he said. Quote1:
He said that not doing a thing might be a good idea. Read: While people like radfield ar saying something along the lines "guys, a no-lynch is not the end of the world" TruthBringer looks like he wants us to chill and do nothing. Maybe Radfield is right, maybe a nolynch is not the worst thing that could happen to town but I sure as hell don't want it to happen, neither do I want an atmosphere of "let's just chill we don't have to do something right now".
More data is not always good? Well yeah if someone is bombing the thread and 3 pages in a row would be only posts from one guy, that probably would not help at all, but other than that I'd actually like to have a lot of data for several reasons.
First of all a lot of data means our reads are better because there's always strange things. As he said, some people are maybe new, some may just have another opionion about some topic, that doesen't necessarily mean they're scum. If I find someone saying something that is wrong in my opinion I'll call him out. If I find someone who is doing illogical stuff several times that's bad, if I find someone who's doing illogical stuff all the time I want him to hang. So more information gives us a better read because it tells me if that guy is consistent, no matter in which direction. If I get less posts from someone that means that both my reads could be wrong because makeing a single good or bad call isn't something special at all.
Also More data means more talk. If you tell people we don't need to talk mafia is not talking at all which means you're denieing them the chance to make mistakes.
Paragraph2.5 He's scared to hang a blue. Why is that? Sure I don't want to hang a blue but I guess those people can defend themselves if we're fosing them. Why even mentioning blues in the first place? It's not like we're less likely to lynch a blue because you said that.
His 3rd paragraph is kind of a nulltell. I mean that's basicly what mafia is about, figureing out if people did a mistake because they thought they're right or if they did it on purpose.
4th paragraph is another nulltell.
On to the second quote:
The quote itself is not strange. However he is contradicting everything he said in quote 1 here.
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EBWOP: Forgot to add my vote.
##Vote Truthbringer
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On December 05 2011 22:44 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:46 sandroba wrote:
Okay so here it is:
Syllogism: Unless he found a new love for being mafia exactly this game, I'm pretty surre he is town. He could have opted to post waaaay less day1 and still I wouldn't suspect him, because that's usually how he operates. Instead he is getting this thread moving, posting a shitton and generating discussion.
So do you think it's superior to be passive as scum compared to actively organising the discussion? I don't like your logic right there - I grant you that this assumption is widely spread among us TL-players - but it's wrong. WBG for example is extremely active as scum and because of that a very good scumplayer. Syllo is smart enough to try a new style as scum. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:46 sandroba wrote:
Jackal: I went over his day1 on xlvii and found his tone to be pretty simillar. Dunno what to make of him yet. agree. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:53 Toadesstern wrote:Ok because of you guys saying there's so much useless people I just looked into people I thought might be useless and found truthbringer to be strange + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 01:57 TruthBringer wrote:
@prplhz
We don't have to do anything on the first day. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something.
I admit that we have more data if we hang someone, because we can see that person's alignment and who voted for him and who voted elsewhere. But more data doesn't mean we are in a better position. If we hang a powerful blue, and the mafia isn't overrepresented in the vote to lynch him, that does us no good.
You seem to think that I can pick out scum just based on bad ideas, but some people are just not good players or come up with bad plans, how am I to know the difference? Like I said, I don't have the experience right now to make the distinction.
Also, there can be differences of opinion. You and I might both be good guys and honestly have different opinions on whether it is a good idea or bad idea to hang on the first day. On December 05 2011 12:36 TruthBringer wrote:
Okay, prplhz "voted" for me in this thread. He never voted for me in the voting thread even though I reminded him to in this thread. (See page 9).
The way I see it is this . . . he leaves less evidence behind if he doesn't vote for me in the actual voting thread. The voting thread will end up being fairly short, easy to read through. Whereas this thread is already becoming a bear.
He was hoping to start a tidal wave against me and it didn't work out, and so he never actually voted for me in the voting thread. He doesn't want to come off as a frequent vote changer, etc. I think it is pretty scummy that he would so quickly vote for me in this thread, but not follow-up on it in the voting thread even after I reminded him to. He said that not doing a thing might be a good idea. Read: While people like radfield ar saying something along the lines "guys, a no-lynch is not the end of the world" TruthBringer looks like he wants us to chill and do nothing. Maybe Radfield is right, maybe a nolynch is not the worst thing that could happen to town but I sure as hell don't want it to happen, neither do I want an atmosphere of "let's just chill we don't have to do something right now". More data is not always good? Well yeah if someone is bombing the thread and 3 pages in a row would be only posts from one guy, that probably would not help at all, but other than that I'd actually like to have a lot of data for several reasons. First of all a lot of data means our reads are better because there's always strange things. As he said, some people are maybe new, some may just have another opionion about some topic, that doesen't necessarily mean they're scum. If I find someone saying something that is wrong in my opinion I'll call him out. If I find someone who is doing illogical stuff several times that's bad, if I find someone who's doing illogical stuff all the time I want him to hang. So more information gives us a better read because it tells me if that guy is consistent, no matter in which direction. If I get less posts from someone that means that both my reads could be wrong because makeing a single good or bad call isn't something special at all. Also More data means more talk. If you tell people we don't need to talk mafia is not talking at all which means you're denieing them the chance to make mistakes. Paragraph2.5 He's scared to hang a blue. Why is that? Sure I don't want to hang a blue but I guess those people can defend themselves if we're fosing them. Why even mentioning blues in the first place? It's not like we're less likely to lynch a blue because you said that. His 3rd paragraph is kind of a nulltell. I mean that's basicly what mafia is about, figureing out if people did a mistake because they thought they're right or if they did it on purpose. 4th paragraph is another nulltell. On to the second quote:The quote itself is not strange. However he is contradicting everything he said in quote 1 here. That post is completely empty. All you prove is that Truthbringer is a newbie. We already know that. That's a horrible reasoning for voting someone!!!
It's not priving truthbringer is a newbie what I'm about, it's abut he wanting everything a mafia would ask for. Therefore I voted him to get some pressure and tell him I think otherwise. If he comes in this thread to explain his thoughts and why he thinks a town with less information is a good town I'm willing to change my vote if it sound reasonable. I want those people who are not posting at all to start posting and truthbringer is one of them.
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oh and yeah, people tend to tell me I'm writing to much wall of text in pretty much every game 
The only one who said it's fine was wbg after I said I should post less in a postgamediscussion
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so you want me to call something out without voteing? Let's face it, if this would be someone else that got a couple of games I'd be all over him. I said that I don't think he's right with what he said and that he changes his mind just 1 or 2 posts later. And that's it. I don't think I'm being harsh or something and it's not like I'm unable to unvote. I want to see him post and I want to see his reaction nevertheless therfefore I'm voting him so that he can't just ignore what I said and move on.
About the palmar vote, did you read my thoughts there because it was something like that as well. I quoted 2 weird things from palmar and let's be honest he's playing weird this game so I wanted to have him respond. He did explain what I quoted and I'm fine with that at the moment. Although I still don't know what to think about his rnd thing right now. I doubt a mafia palmar would do such a thing but at the same time I doubt a town palmar would do such a thing.
Both are kind of a process of learning which I already stated earlier this game. Last game (that 80 player thing) I called out erandorr several times becaue I thought he's fishy but it's not enough to get him lynched. In the end everyone ended up ignoring what I said, even erandorr and I ended up seeing him red. So I'd like people to not ignore those things this game. With a vote I am at least getting the attention from the guy I'm voteing.
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On December 05 2011 23:54 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:46 sandroba wrote:
Okay so here it is:
Syllogism: Unless he found a new love for being mafia exactly this game, I'm pretty surre he is town. He could have opted to post waaaay less day1 and still I wouldn't suspect him, because that's usually how he operates. Instead he is getting this thread moving, posting a shitton and generating discussion.
Radfield: Pretty active, but for him that doesn't mean as much. Leaning town on him for now, only because his posts are not as carefully constructed as when he is mafia.
Palmar: Kinda inactive day 1, but I can't really say shit about that, since I was inactive myself. It's worth keeping an eye on him, since I'm having a bad feeling about his posts (pretty much reharsh of previous games posts), but still a retarded choice for a lynch day1.
These guys shouldn't even be discussed for a lynch day1, since they have a high chance of being shot night 1 when town. Nice way to create a base to try to lynch those guys on day 2.. Anyway, I'm sorry for my current inactivity. It's my birthday and there was a supriseparty yesterday. Today i have dinner with friends so won't be posting much either. I thought i would only lose 1 night due to my birthday (tonight) but a supriseparty made that 2. I read through the thread and have a question. The palmar case seems to be a gathering of little things to me, could someone (preferable one of the voters) explain the case to me?
well in my opinion the palmar case is kind of wifom. As mentioned I don't think a mafia palmar would suggest such a thing as a rnd vote because he should know that it's weird to say the least. So the first thing I thought was that he must be scum and like realized that it might be wifom because of that. Therefore I voted him to get a little bit more information to evaluate what he's doing atm because it's strange for sure.
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On December 05 2011 23:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 23:54 hyshes wrote:On December 05 2011 21:46 sandroba wrote:
Okay so here it is:
Syllogism: Unless he found a new love for being mafia exactly this game, I'm pretty surre he is town. He could have opted to post waaaay less day1 and still I wouldn't suspect him, because that's usually how he operates. Instead he is getting this thread moving, posting a shitton and generating discussion.
Radfield: Pretty active, but for him that doesn't mean as much. Leaning town on him for now, only because his posts are not as carefully constructed as when he is mafia.
Palmar: Kinda inactive day 1, but I can't really say shit about that, since I was inactive myself. It's worth keeping an eye on him, since I'm having a bad feeling about his posts (pretty much reharsh of previous games posts), but still a retarded choice for a lynch day1.
These guys shouldn't even be discussed for a lynch day1, since they have a high chance of being shot night 1 when town. Nice way to create a base to try to lynch those guys on day 2.. Anyway, I'm sorry for my current inactivity. It's my birthday and there was a supriseparty yesterday. Today i have dinner with friends so won't be posting much either. I thought i would only lose 1 night due to my birthday (tonight) but a supriseparty made that 2. I read through the thread and have a question. The palmar case seems to be a gathering of little things to me, could someone (preferable one of the voters) explain the case to me? well in my opinion the palmar case is kind of wifom. As mentioned I don't think a mafia palmar would suggest such a thing as a rnd vote because he should know that it's weird to say the least. So the first thing I thought was that he must be scum and like realized that it might be wifom because of that. Therefore I voted him to get a little bit more information to evaluate what he's doing atm because it's strange for sure.
EBWOP ah crap copy & past ruined my phrase
well in my opinion the palmar case is kind of wifom. As mentioned I don't think a mafia palmar would suggest such a thing as a rnd vote because he should know that it's weird to say the least.
So the first thing I thought was that he must be town and realized that it might be wifom because he should know that as well which could make him scum as well.Therefore I voted him to get a little bit more information to evaluate what he's doing atm because it's strange for sure.
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On December 05 2011 23:58 supersoft wrote:
toadesstern: "I doubt a town palmar would do such a thing."
don't doubt that. Townpalmar is very ambitious to win his games. Right now I don't see where this is going what he does.
that's exactly my point. Therefore I'd like to have some information on him and asked him out about it.
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ok guys I don't know what to think right now. First of all I voted Truthbringer to get him talking, he did join the conversation and I got the same read as supersoft now that I got some more posts out of him. So first things first:
##Unvote Truthbringer
Secondly I just have no idea what's going on right now. I'm not going to vote for v7 because I can see how he did that as a townie. I mean seariously Palmar, you told the guy to shoot a rnd-vote of yours which you got from your mate as well. You're telling him that his target was bullshit? Really?
I do not know what palmars intentions are. Sure he probably wanted to get those notes like he said but he's been trolling the thread since he made his very first post and I want that to stop.
I'm going to be on for a couple more hours, won't be here for the deadline so if there's some fancy as hell plan you got to tell us sometimes soon or I'll either vote you or someone kinda-lurking that is slightly scummy because frankly you did a great job giving mafia a nice oppertunity to join without a problem.
Sure noone could have seen that comming but right now I can understand both sides to a point.
That is I still think palmars move was bullshit but I could see him doing such a crazy thing to manipulate (?) as both town and mafia because from what I saw the last game he likes to be a leading role in townplay.
About the rest: I would be willing to lynch hier or lanaia as well, but it's just a huge clusterfuck right now.
Hyshes still is a mayor green read for me Truthbringer is kind of green for me now as well.
Someone I left out who might be an option?
Summary: Palmar, hier or maybe lanaia. I'm feeling hier is scummier than lanaia and palmar is just something weird I can't judge. Judging him tomorrow is ok I guess.
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On December 06 2011 08:43 syllogism wrote:
I'll be around for an hour or two so you have until then to push for a candidate Radfield if you want my vote. If there are any other Europeans who have to leave, switch away from Palmar because that lynch isn't happening and we aren't no lynching today if we can avoid it. There is no town reason not to comply with this request, even if you somehow are certain that Palmar is mafia, so I expect everyone to comply.
Toadesstern you aren't voting for anyone.
I know I'm still considering my vote since I unvoted sometime ago.
I got to the conclusion that v7 is town and palmar probably is as well, still pretty unreadable for me to be honest but I'm leaning towards troll on purpose to survive night 1. Since he claimed I'd like to see that claim to be correct and am willing to judge him based off what he's doing day2. If he thinks he needs to troll to survive day1 I want to see his day2 as well. If he's not going to change that I want to see him hang. If he changes and gives us some proper reads that's awesome.
The only two people left I'd support a vote right now would be hier or lanaia. I said I'm leaning towards hier and with 2 vets agreeing that lanaia might not be the best lynch today I'm going to stick with hier if nothing changes.
The problem I have with hier is that I don't see a lynch happening, he got 1 vote right now, with me that'd be two votes and as mentioned I still don't want a no-lynch-
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EBWOP
his day2 as well = his day2 analysis as well
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okay palmar voted hier as well, maybe we can still make this happen, here it goes:
##vote Hier
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palmar you said you wanted to vote hier with both your votes. Would you mind doing so?
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On December 06 2011 09:19 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:08 vaderseven wrote:From the Voting thread- On December 06 2011 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 06 2011 07:05 Zephirdd wrote:
##vote no-lynch You may not vote for a no-lynch, so this vote is void.
No-lynch only occurs with the lack of a majority. Every player must vote for a specific player to be lynched. "Majority" could be either "More than half" or "Most votes", depending on interpretation. Can someone clarify that, or am I just bad at English? :|
is means that you need one more than half of every player to get a lynch. So yeah ( # / 2 rounded down ) +1
Examples: A town with 10 people alive needs 6 on ONE guy to get him lynched.
A town with 9 people alive needs 5 on ONE guy to get him lynched.
I'm no host but that's what extended majority lynch is as far as I know
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EBWOP: Extended majority lynch = what I said, you need 50% + 1
Simple majority lynch would be "the guy who got the most votes gets lynched"
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Just a thought that came to my mind. A couple people already said that roleclaim looks strange because the role looks like a mafia role. Right now he still hasn't voted (as mentioned earlier) although he said so. What's the deal with that?
Also let's just think about that double vote for a second. That could be just some weird trick to get controle of town again.
Something along the lines "I got 2 votes, if you want to avoid a no-lynch you better vote what I want".
Just a though. Still standing by my decision to let palmar live for today and judge him by what he does day2 but if there's no anon vote like Palmar said I want this guy to die.
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On December 06 2011 09:37 supersoft wrote:
sorry, i got to sleep now. I am suspicious of sandroba. But my vote will go on Erandorr. I think he lied about his illness. I think he's playing Dota2 instead of contributing. He played the exact same way in xlvii and i won't let him get away with that this time.
I know he can do it better.
##vote: Erandorr
I do agree that a vote on erandorr might be an option as well but I just don't think we're going to get 13 votes on him.
If there's people willing to vote erandorr please say something because we really need to get something going tonight!
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On December 06 2011 09:40 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:33 Toadesstern wrote:
Just a thought that came to my mind. A couple people already said that roleclaim looks strange because the role looks like a mafia role. Right now he still hasn't voted (as mentioned earlier) although he said so. What's the deal with that?
Also let's just think about that double vote for a second. That could be just some weird trick to get controle of town again.
Something along the lines "I got 2 votes, if you want to avoid a no-lynch you better vote what I want".
Just a though. Still standing by my decision to let palmar live for today and judge him by what he does day2 but if there's no anon vote like Palmar said I want this guy to die. It doesn't get counted until incognito notices my pm.
what about your normal vote? Do you get tell him both votes? Can you still switch? Do you have to do a normal vote in the thread + pm him his your second vote? Can you vote 2 seperate people?
I'm assume it's not going to work the way v7's vig was used because what use would there be in a anon-vote if you have to call it out openly :p
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On December 06 2011 10:08 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:07 Zephirdd wrote:On December 06 2011 10:04 Drazerk wrote:On December 06 2011 10:00 Risen wrote:On December 06 2011 09:52 Drazerk wrote:On December 06 2011 09:51 Erandorr wrote:
Thought about other players coming soon (tm) It's too late in the day for new bandwagon targets. Focus on what we have NO! This is so illogical. How certain are you that Palmar is mafia? Vote for him because he's bandwagon is so ridiculous. We have a less than 25% chance of being right on Palmar, add to that his stupid posts and the % goes DOWN in my book, not up. Why is that percentage going up for you? He has CLAIMED a role. If his role vote doesn't show up on the list tonight THEN we sit back and say, oh shit Palmar lied TWICE to us. As it stands he was just pressuring v7 into making a move, he didn't force v7 to shoot Soap. Palmar was buddy buddy with Soap. V7 is a dumbass and shot a wrong target. If anything, Palmar is a vig target, because that gives us more time to look at where the chips fall. What happens when we lynch Palmar and his anonymous vote shows up on Hier? We just lost ourselves a double vote for as long as we can keep him alive. This is JUST like last game. What if bloodyc0bbler had been scum in that game? We shot ourselves in the foot and got LUCKY that we double voted in town. We have a person claiming blue, if his blue power doesn't show up? Vig shot or lynch day 2. This decision is being forced upon us because we "need" to lynch. Last game should of taught you never to trust power roles ever. His vote still hasn't come through and we have no idea if he controls it or not and is much more likely to be scum than town. Also think. Why on earth would palmar buddy buddy with soap of all people other than the pure fact of trolling. You can choose to lynch scum tonight or you can lynch no one wait until tomorrow after he has had a chance to kill townies with his KP. ...about that, you can see the "Anonymous" vote for Hier on the voting thread. I'm off for a bit to cool my head. His second vote still hasn't appeared.
Actually there is one vote called "palmar" on V7 and one vote called Anon on hier according to my list, which isn't exactly what he wanted to do.
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EPT
