EPTTL Mafia XLVIII - Page 13
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annul
United States2841 Posts
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United States2841 Posts
On December 14 2011 15:27 vaderseven wrote: No, the only difference is you are the one squirming suddenly upon making a mistake about a claim. Its classic. You are doing it well at least. i made no mistake about a claim. i am not squirming. for the first time in the game it is revealed that you and i have different roles. of course, i process this information and act accordingly. there is no "squirming" and no "mistake" -- i have these roles and you have yours. You have resorted to an OMGUS as soon as a claim falls apart to a counter claim and that is a very standard mafia tactic. Seeing as I have pretty much destroyed by virtue of calling you out on a lie in your claim 1. not OMGUS. see above post. 2. there was no lie. i have not lied once in this entire fucking game. please point DIRECTLY, DIRECTLYYYYY to any lie i have made once in this game. find me a LIE i made and i will lay down and die. but you cant because i did not lie. perhaps you MISINTERPRETED what i said at one point, but when i clarified, you seemed perfectly clear in your comprehension. 3. funny how i said "bulletproof" in my list of abilities and then YOU said "he has the exact same abilities i have in the correct order?" you lied. YOU. lied. not me. you. because eventually you came out and said you did not actually have bulletproof, but veteran. imagine that once AGAIN i catch someone else in the lie and yet i am the majority candidate for a third time in a row now? Splitting the hair about your claim of able to go bulletproof vs mine to go vet for a night is misdirecting the conversation away from the fact that I claimed and breadcrumbed my role way in advance and you did a copy cat style play to establish yourself. Don't think that I have forgotten how it was when everyone was putting myself in their 'probably town' lists that you went established your copy cat claim. "jack, oops i meant palmar" is hardly advanced lol. and the difference between BP and vet is everything, it is so crucial because it shows how i am town and you are mafia. to deflect AWAY from this is to play defense when for the first time in the game i can be totally confident in my ability to play offense on somebody else. there is zero chance whatsoever that i am wrong here. zero. town will see this. you say i make a "copy cat claim" -- are you honestly implying that you think i am NOT a jack? like for real? all the evidence is there and you have admitted repeatedly that i proved myself to you, that i have the exact same abilities you have (with one key difference we find out!), yada yada. now it looks like with things like "copy cat claim" that you are throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. THAT is squirming. Also, your analysis of bulletproof vs vet as 'more town' operates under an assumption that the town has a max of 1 KP per night. That being said, I don't believe you are a jack or any multi ability user. I think you are a mafia single shot day vig. You found a great way to get your shot off without being insta lynched for it and you are riding that all the way to the present moment. A. yes, town only has syllogism as the two shot vig at night. if town had anything else it would have been used by now. B. HOW CAN I BE A MAFIA ONE SHOT DAY VIG IF I PULLED MEDIC, MASON, DAY VIG, AND (X) OUT OF MY ASS? those ARE your four abilities, after all. like honestly how the fuck would i know these things? this is so disingenuous its absurd. The fact of the matter is, you are not the same role as I. I am a town Jack and you have claimed to be the same thing. we do not have the same role. we have the same TITLE but our powers are different. ive also taken the liberty of removing the bold blue text, since i fucking hate when people do that, as if it implies authority of a mod confirmation when it is bullshit. people should stop using any colors in text except green for official mod questions. Your abilities do not match mine. You are lieing about the name of your role and the only reason to do so is if you are not town aligned. again, let me show you this: On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote: Abilites: Vet for one night Med for one night Mason for one day/night day vigi how the fuck would i be able to know this if i didnt have the same role (at least the same 3/4 of the role and a different self-defense ability)? You made a small slip and said you used your first option on Refallen and then that mistake expanded into admitting to not knowing what the Jack role has as its abilities. i am the first person in the ENTIRE GAME to give the full sheet of jack powers (from my version). On December 14 2011 06:41 annul wrote: as you wish ability 1: bulletproof ability 2: day vig ability 3: medic ability 4: mason "option 1" obviously refers to me using medic and not mason. FIVE HOURS LATER, YOU CONFIRM THIS On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote: Abilites: Vet for one night Med for one night Mason for one day/night day vigi and now you come up and say im faking it. what a horrible defense you have put up. all game i stand firm to the pressure and survive two full days of onslaught of people saying there cant be two town jacks. the REAL mafia jack gets a couple of posts of pressure by me and completely disintegrates. ![[image loading]](http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z426/saratoninplur/joffrey-clap-1.gif) | ||
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On December 14 2011 15:48 vaderseven wrote: It was obv OMGUS lol. You see that I have found a fault in your claim. im voting you because your slate of abilities is tailored for mafia whereas mine is tailored for town. that is my rationale. also, now, how you handle the pressure just adds to it, but this is where the root of the case began. nothing OMGUS about it. Ok. Thats where it becomes some backpedaling. OPTION 1 among 4 abilities that are supposed to be common between us would be ability 1. You even number them. This clearly makes it obvious what the common understanding of option 1 would be. and yet you say you honestly believe i am a mafia aligned single shot day vig? lolololol. BECAUSE i knew youd understand it, i said "option 1" BECAUSE i wanted to make it clear i did not mean mason. BECAUSE i thought you were smart and knew i would obviously not claim to use a self ability on somebody else, i must be talking about abilities that target other people. and BECAUSE you understood what i meant once i explained myself. | ||
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On December 14 2011 15:52 vaderseven wrote: Maybe you ARE a multi ability mafia role and you just assumed your abilities matched mine. our abilities do match. what you claimed and what i claim match 100% EXCEPT for our self-defense power, which again ive explained repeatedly makes you the mafia jack | ||
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On December 14 2011 15:58 vaderseven wrote: This is the one thing I think that is true. You are right, you are some other variation of a multi-ability role and you were assuming your abilities matched mine. It is likely that you are a scum variation of my role. this is funny because its my exact case against you but youre trying to turn it but see when i point out the gaping holes in the case theres nothing else you can do but admit you were bullshitting and throwing the entire pot of pasta to the wall hoping something sticks. i spring unexpected pressure onto the mafia and they cant handle it. | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:11 vaderseven wrote: Now you are correcting your error and doing a subtle attack onto my claim (of first ability), which DID occur first thank you. Your counter claim of bulletproof over vet and the whole bulletproof is more pro town is a result of me claiming vet as an ability. Simple. As. That. what the fuck are you talking about? i made no error. this is my ability. i have bulletproof. you apparently do not. there is no error here. all there is is you having a slate of mafia powers where i have a slate of town powers. also, as i said, i am the first person in the game to claim all jack powers. you then confirmed it. you did NOT claim first. and when i said "bulletproof, not veteran" i was saying that to explain to you that bulletproof stops ALL night kills, that it is not just a veteran role. when i said "NOT VETERAN" i was signaling to you that perhaps you saw "bulletproof" but read the power as that of a veteran (an honest and probable mistake), not that i thought your role actually was veteran. only when you came outright and told me otherwise did i connect the dots and realize what ive been missing all along. Our next posts. I make it CLEAR as hell that you are lieing based on your claimed ability usage and claimed role. even here at this point in the game i am still operating under the assumption that you were town. obviously its fucking retarded to claim all our powers for no reason. (assuming you were town) that would mean that now mafia knows what we can do, and they can play around it. now they know we have medic and one night self-defense of some sort. you were hinting we had DT powers. "refallen, option 1" was me playing along. why give the reds any more info than necessary? of course this all crashes down when i realize you are not blue with me. And from there you put up your list. Your list isn't the magical first list that your big post trys to make it out to be. My list that came 5 hours after yours was a simple information based list to help make it clear what I was calling you out on. I await your next twisting of my words my worthy foe. the fact remains that i am still the first person to claim all our powers. the first one. and the only one to not lie once all game. i have caught you in repeated lies AAAAAAND i have caught you trying weak arguments hoping something sticks. nothing i said has been twisted in any capacity... by me, anyway. its not like i am arguing "omg i claimed these powers therefore im town" but i am arguing "i claimed these powers of jack, which YOU CONFIRMED, and then you were legitimately arguing to discredit me that i am not a jack, but a mafia one shot day vig." then when that blew up in your face you suddenly realized "oh fuck i fucked up" and now youre trying to salvage it. it wont work. | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:15 vaderseven wrote: Oh and ![[image loading]](http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-bravo-bunny.jpg) You really had me scratching my head for a second with that 5 hours later you post the 2nd list of Jack abilities. I had to re-read both of our filters to make sure that I wasn't crazy and that I really had named that Vet was an ability before you named bulletproof. you named vet 5 hours AFTER i named bulletproof. not the other way around. | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:25 vaderseven wrote: Dang you are good at playing scum. That is an awesome buddying up to a large case vs you in an attempt to create a case out of thin air on me. You even couple that with an image of me having no logical place to stand saying that you are lieing. You said that you used option 1 on Refallen and I said uh option is to become a vet. You then backpedal and quickly go from being pro-me to anti-me. I finally caught you in a slip up that proved you were not the same role as me. With that you have no choice other than to OMGUS me. You have claimed town jack and so have I. The moment our claims don't match it is 100% the moment that we know each of our alignments, that of opposites. You recognized this and ASAP began to find ways to make a case that your claim is more town than mine. It is the most classic scum OMGUS (not town OMGUS) in that you realized at the same instant as I that your alignment had been revealed to me via your claim vs mine. i have proven that at that time i still believed you were town jack, just like me. and i have proven that my goal in that answer was to communicate information to YOU that did not get communicated to everyone else, namely the reds. knowing this, and knowing that, from my perspective, you knew what powers we both had, i assumed you were not as dumb as to think that i was claiming to use bulletproof on refallen. i guess i was wrong about that OMGUS means "oh my god, you suck." it is used in this example: person A: (some rationale), therefore i am voting B. person B: OMG, YOU SUCK! i am voting A. this is OMGUS. it is voting for someone BECAUSE THEY VOTE YOU. simply voting for someone who has voted you previously does not make it OMGUS unless you do so ONLY because they voted you. since ive provided ample rationale that is entirely unrelated to you being faster to type "vote annul" than i could get out my initial case, it is not OMGUS. stop stonewalling. | ||
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On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote: It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town. OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on. I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list. You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town. I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive). I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you. Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything. once AGAIN you are arguing against a straw man. the difference is not in the ORDERING of the abilities. the difference is in the abilities themselves. we have the same abilities (medic, mason, day vig, and a self-defense power) -- except my "self-defense power" is different from yours in a subtle but critical way: mine stops ALL KP at night, yours stops 1 KP. this cant be an accident. therefore, there is no way you are not mafia. the only possible reason to split it up like this is to make me immune to a double stack by the mafia; something you do not need to worry about. but it has gone so far past this point now; now my case rests primarily in the way you are defending my pressure. you have lied repeatedly, used countless logical fallacies of various types, you have attempted to misdirect the crux of the cases, and you have used the awesome "no u" defense. i am positive that the people not here who wake up and read this will see just how scummy your defenses have been, and realize it is you, not i, who is finally outed as the red jack. | ||
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it looks like your last post is going back to the whole "im not really a jack" theory. LOLOLOL. i never lied once. you misinterpreted what "option 1" meant. aka, YOUR fault, not mine. you were SATISFIED with my explanation (because you typed "##unvote" in the thread AND because you said something like "oh, there were better ways of saying that...") and now you try to push that point once im on you? why not push it then? why unvote? | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:00 vaderseven wrote: Look again bro! Stop trying to confuse the issue. This is a factual list of the ordering of posts. saying "so you choose to be a vet and target someone" is not claiming vet. i make a direct claim of powers and five hours later you claim the same powers except youre a vet and im a BP. maybe in some extremely twisted sense of logic you "named" vet here, but it certainly is not a claim, since you have "named" powers that we have had in the past by subtle drops like this that we do not actually have. | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:03 vaderseven wrote: I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around. the fact you saw it cool to type "##vote annul" without any other content before i managed to type a multiple paragraph case does not make you the aggressor. i think itll be pretty clear to those who read this debate who is the one failing at proper defense. | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:05 vaderseven wrote: I have no idea what your role is, I really don't. I flip flop mentally from moment to moment on that. I know that you are not the same role as me though. You didn't even bother to comment on the time line once I clarified it. Care to do so? pretty sure ive responded to every post you have made so far. pinpoint what specifically you want me to comment on; perhaps i have mistakenly missed something. but given how bad your case has been so far, it certainly was not intentional and i will pounce on any chance i get to disprove something of yours | ||
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On December 14 2011 06:54 vaderseven wrote: wtf why did you set that up like that then man horrible. ##unvote On December 14 2011 06:55 vaderseven wrote: It was a horrible way to say things. just for people to see what i am talking about. here you understood my explanation perfectly, and even though you misinterpreted it, you knew the specific precise piece of information i was trying to deliver to you. that was the goal: get you to understand the message without signaling to the reds what i had communicated. if this was SUCH A MASSIVE SCUMSLIP OMG then why the fuck do you unvote me here? why not immediately pounce on it, the way i immediately pounced on you when i learned you had vet and not BP? also, On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote: Thats the abilities I have in the correct order. On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote: Thats the abilities I have in the correct order. On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote: Thats the abilities I have in the correct order. On December 14 2011 07:35 vaderseven wrote: Thats the abilities I have in the correct order. but of course this was a lie, wasnt it? | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:10 vaderseven wrote: For a bit there your case was based on me saying Vet 5 hours after you said bulletproof. Where did that go? Oh its insane logic not to understand what I cleared stated in that post I quoted (in this post). Makes sense coming from the person that says Option 1 = 3rd ability. On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote: Abilites: Vet for one night Med for one night Mason for one day/night day vigi whats that? your list of options is different from mine (which i couldnt have known before saying "option 1" anyway)? ohhhhhhh is that right so, then, "OMG YOU CANT USE VET ON SOMEONE ELSE" line is irrelevant and distracting? ohhhhh okay | ||
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the style of defense he employs is tragic. full of flaws, fallacies, and diversions. he goes off the deep end when i put any form of pressure on him that theres no way in hell hes not red. | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:16 vaderseven wrote: Comment on your choice to shoot and claim jack after what had happened with me on day 1. Comment on your choice to say option 1 and then call everyone retarded that says 1 does not equal 3. Please take the time to specifically comment on as to why you choose to say this, if it was indeed not a lie, in the most insanely stupid way so that anyone that was checking their role vs your claimed actions would instantly feel as if you had lied. Comment on to why me saying Vet and then you saying Bulletproof 2 hours and 41 minutes later is not important yet you posting a list that states bulletproof and then me posting a list that says vet 5 hours later is important. Keep in mine that the first of these two events happened first. Comment on how you are turning this into a lynch Vader not me is in fact not a defensive measure when you are leading the vote count in a huge way. 1. uh i was gonna die to the lynch so i claimed? this is standard procedure... or are you legitimately arguing that because i came up with a clever way to save myself that i must be mafia? you cant be arguing this, can you? 2. i already commented on this muuuuultiple times. i already "specifically commented" on why i chose to say that. but if you forgot, "vader knows our powers. vader knows ive proven im jack repeatedly such that he believes me. vader knows i know what we can do. vader cant possibly be so dumb as to think 'option 1' refers to something i cant target someone else with; he has to know that im referring specifically to the fact that i could have medic'd OR mason'd. i do not want to say "i used medic" because then the mafia will know we have medic powers, and i dont know if vader already used his second power." 3. you said the WORD vet whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop dee doo for you sir, you also said "cop" a few times too; were you claiming cop? were you "naming your powers" then too? you didnt actually claim; i did, then you echoed my claim much later. also note that regardless of what you want to straw man with SAYING THE WORD vet earlier... i am still the first one to say medic! and mason! but like "WHO SAID IT FIRST" is not really important other than to disprove YOUR framework of the case where you tried to argue that i was not actually a jack. HEY TOWN, READ THIS! thats where the importance of this entire argument line comes from: v7 legitimately put in his case against me that he HONESTLY THOUGHT i was not a jack. 4. ive led the votes every day other than day 1. i was writing my case to attack you even before i saw your "##vote annul" without other content post. there is no more delaying. i cannot try to sway a no lynch to save myself, like i could otherwise do. today i need to focus fire a red OR WE LOSE. this is it. no lynch = game over. do the math. and as any good player of this game will do, in a situation like this, i am going to try to find someone i think is red and push my ass off on them and hope im right. | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:25 vaderseven wrote: I unvoted you because I knew you were going to post a shit storm this is obviously bullshit. this is the rationale? lololol no you didnt. you unvoted. im talking about if my explanation was so scummy, not the initial claim. i dont know what you are asking here but this is good that you pull out that when you saw that, you instantly voted for me without content, whereas when i saw that, i instantly decided to write a legit case. If I make a mistake and read your list of abilites that is damn near close to mine and see Bulletproof where I expect to see Vet I am sure you can see why I would ignore that. Especially since the issue I was focus'd on at the time was ability 1 being a non targetable ability. --- I actually didn't notice the other ordering issues with your claim until you just pointed that out until I wrote this out. lol. Thanks for pointing that out. AKA "YOU CAUGHT ME, DAMN IT, I HOPE NO ONE NOTICES THAT ANNUL IS RIGHT HERE IF I AM CORDIAL ABOUT IT" | ||
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On December 14 2011 17:29 vaderseven wrote: I still can't believe I defended you and led the town into not lynching you. id be upset with myself too if i knew i was a red and the guy ive been sheltering all along saw through the illusion If you post anymore manipulative statements and half truths about your claims tonight I'll address them tomorrow. the word "anymore" is poorly used here; it implies ive posted any manipulative statements or half truths in the first place, which i havent. but i would love to see you address my important substantive issues, since you havent really done so yet | ||
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there is no basis in fact or logic that can explain my gameplay and my divining of the jack powers unless i actually had what i said i had. THEREFORE, since we agree on 3/4 of the powers, the sole difference is the self-defense power. nothing else. | ||
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