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Hi guys, then I am up and awake, and have read through the entire thread.
Lynch all liars/Lynch all lurkers
My view here is lynch all confirmed liars, if you claim something that is proven wrong you must die. On lynch all lurkers, all non-poster/few posts must die. Thats all I have to say about policy lynches.
Now for the game so far, this is my view:
Adam 4167: Did the first post of the thread and a policy post. Not much content this far. That beeing said he is from Australia and have probably slept through most of the game this far.
Grackorini: Made some filler post and some policy lynch posts this far. Would like to see him get more into the game.
Velinath: Is the big time poster in this game so far, together with Blazinghand and ey215. In the beginning alot of no-content posts and alot of posts about policy lynches. Have picked it up by the end of this thread, and are actually beeing helpful for town now.
xtfftc Besides one post discussing policy votes the rest of the post have been filler posts. Expect him to get more active now as he is EU.
xsksc: Is taking on the role of an educator this far. Telling us noobs how this game works. This gives him a strong position, and a easily abused position. So far his posts have been educationally and only that. I expect more from a "veteran" like you. Post some analysis, do more, help us scumhunt!
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
ey215: After Blazinghand started pressure him he have started making posts that benefits town. Abit defensive and emotional.
Blazinghand: MVP of the game thus far. He is pressuring people and is the one getting the discussions started. I like this agressive play, town needs it! That beeing said, it can quickly go over the top and go from beeing pro town, to making a bad town environment.
BroodKingEXE Mostly filler posts. Have already been pressured, and rightfully so. Need to start making usefull posts.
Bbyte, ElectricBlack and Hassybaby Time to wake up and post!
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I'm by no means a veteran, I've only got 2 games under my belt! I just wanted to start the discussion off and make the new guys feel a little more comfortable 
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Also, you make it sound like I've not been scum-hunting, which is a little unfair I think.
I got the thread going, which gave us the content we need to analyse with. I've also noted how certain people are interacting, how people responded to pressure, how people feel about policies, etc etc. It will all be useful when it comes to deciding the lynch. Just because I haven't made a "dis guy hasn't posted 10 hours in so he must be scum" post, doesn't mean I'm not scum-hunting.
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On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost.
If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do.
If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop.
Activity doesn't prove that someone is a townie, of course. But if you have a town read on all the active players, lynching a lurker is great.
On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:
On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them.
100% agree, this was pretty much my point anyway.
And there's a lot of similar views expressed later in the thread by others, so can we say that we've reached consensus? If we don't get a good case, we lynch a lurker.
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On December 04 2011 21:02 xsksc wrote:I'm by no means a veteran, I've only got 2 games under my belt! I just wanted to start the discussion off and make the new guys feel a little more comfortable
Thats why I wrote "veteran".
You starting off the discussion with the policy lynch post, and later bringing the attention of the thread over to scumhunting have been good. But I did want to point out that your helpfull ways will give you a strong position in the group. And thats the reason why it is SO important that you, through your posts, convince us that you are town. I have my eye on you (No FOS!), as of now, you beeing scum is the biggest threat to town.
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On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread
Policy or not, everyone should be doing this. Mafia are bound to slip and they will also be reluctant to talk about their teammates slipping, so this is very pro-town behaviour. If you see something you consider to be a lie, mention it. You might be wrong but it's important anyway. And it will also help differentiate between townies who are hunting for mafia and the mafia players who are trying not to attract attention.
(I still think that pushing for heavy policies is pro-mafia though, it takes the pressure away from them by allowing them to follow some simple guidelines)
On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot
Town doesn't benefit from last minute lynches, mafia does. If you see someone suddenly pushing for a lynch near the deadline when there isn't enough time for a proper discussion, it is very likely that this person is mafia.
On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great.
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On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:
If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do.
If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop.
That doesn't make sense. Lynch all liers is in effect. Every townie knows that lying will get them lynched now. You think a townie that is actually trying to win is gonna lie now? I don't think so.
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On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:
I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
......what?
So we all agree that lurking is bad for town. No one denies that. We need all townies to post, so that mafia are pressured into we're able to distinguish town from mafia.
And then you express your concerns that if we somehow manage to get all townies to post, we would have trouble figuring out "the scum lurkers over the town lurkers"... If they don't lurk, we are going to have reads on them and figure out their alignment. No townie would suggest that this is a bad thing.
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On December 04 2011 21:21 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:
If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do.
If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop.
That doesn't make sense. Lynch all liers is in effect. Every townie knows that lying will get them lynched now. You think a townie that is actually trying to win is gonna lie now? I don't think so.
This is naive. But I've explained what the difference is already, so I don't see the point in repeating myself. Unless some new argument is added to the discussion, there is no point in going back to it until we catch someone lying.
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On December 04 2011 21:26 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:21 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:
If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do.
If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop.
That doesn't make sense. Lynch all liers is in effect. Every townie knows that lying will get them lynched now. You think a townie that is actually trying to win is gonna lie now? I don't think so. This is naive. But I've explained what the difference is already, so I don't see the point in repeating myself. Unless some new argument is added to the discussion, there is no point in going back to it until we catch someone lying.
No, it's logic. Give me a reason why a townie would lie when they know LaL is in effect.
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On December 04 2011 13:35 Adam4167 wrote:
We cannot have no-lynches in this game due to the voting rules.
I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. Lynching lurkers on the other hand, while I think they offer nothing to the town, also provides the town with very little new information and costs us an additional townie through a night-kill.
As previously stated in the thread, bored townies are more likely to go inactive/lurk due to not having a very interesting role, whereas a mafia member has two teammates who are relying on him/her to stay active and try to achieve a win.
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game?
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On December 04 2011 21:37 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 21:26 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 21:21 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:
If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do.
If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop.
That doesn't make sense. Lynch all liers is in effect. Every townie knows that lying will get them lynched now. You think a townie that is actually trying to win is gonna lie now? I don't think so. This is naive. But I've explained what the difference is already, so I don't see the point in repeating myself. Unless some new argument is added to the discussion, there is no point in going back to it until we catch someone lying. No, it's logic. Give me a reason why a townie would lie when they know LaL is in effect.
Because until we actually do it, it's just empty words. I'd be very surprised if you can you find me one game where LaL has been officially implemented and followed. It just doesn't happen. If you want it to work, we need to act on it, instead of just saying that we're going to act on it. Until then, some townies will continue lying simply because they think they can pull it off and be the hero who catches us some scum.
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How do I get multiple quotes in one post?
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you can copy paste quotes
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Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started.
On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion.
Some random points:
On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything.
Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use.
Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death.
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I'm going to bed now. Should be back in the thread around 12am GMT / 9am TL time.
That's mid evening for you americans I think. I'll do a write up after I catch up with the thread.
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In the spoiler below are all the post made by you BroodKingEXE, a total of 6. My own comments below in bold. I know it is early in the game and that some filler post will be made. But for both the towns sake and your own sake you need to start making more usefull posts. I want everyone to be more involved and instead of pressuring you I'll throw you a bone: Tell me your opinion on Velinath and Blazinghand's play, tell me what allignement you think they have, tell me why their play is beneficial to the town or not.
+ Show Spoiler + On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? While not completely agreeing to your point, I think this is a ok first post. You come in and start discussing the policy lynch. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot This one is what I consider a filler post. A post with no meaning really.On December 04 2011 14:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys,
Well I think that Lynching any inconsistent comments is definitely a good idea. We need to be sure that any information we are getting is consistent and to keep the amount of strategies that the mob could be using low. As for the lurkers I agree that when in doubt we should vote for the lurkers. The information that they have could be useful or they could just be neglecting to play the game, which means they should not be playing at all. This is back on-topic, and somewhat usefull. Lynching people who clearly do scumslips I agree upon. Not people changing their minds though.On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. Still on topic, you answer the question Velinath gives you. On December 04 2011 15:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Blazinghand,
As long as the mob goes down you can do whatever you have to. A useless postOn December 04 2011 15:15 BroodKingEXE wrote:
jay is right that i am new. A more useless post 
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On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death.
All right then: Who do you consider the most scummiest and who is the most townie thus far? Why?
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On December 04 2011 23:05 Tunkeg wrote:
All right then: Who do you consider the most scummiest and who is the most townie thus far? Why?
Of those who've actually posted BroodKingEXE reads a bit scummy to me. He has only offered some comments about policy and made a lot of apologies. That alone doesn't make him scum, but it's something.
ey215 reads town to me. He defended himself well and raised some valid concerns while doing so. Good thing it seems most of the town isn't too intimidated by Blazinghand's style.
I'd also lean towards town on Blazinghand and you at this point. That's simply for actively pushing discussion other than policy. That's too easy easy a topic for the mafia to take part in.
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Tunkeg, I approve of the way you're pressuring but would you mind answering the questions you've been so happy to ask the others? Not just a summary of the thread activity but how this makes people more or less likely to be mafia. Who do you trust and who would you lynch?
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EPT
