EPTNot like it matters though, It's still much better for all of us to be active and lynch twice in a row.
Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy - Page 4
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Not like it matters though, It's still much better for all of us to be active and lynch twice in a row. | ||
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On November 05 2011 11:05 supersoft wrote: i knew it! sandroba and GM are scum together! Team SS leaded the lynch backed up with an okayish case on sandro. suddenly GM appeared with a huge analysis of our PC. he doesnt mention the SS case at all!!! after kitared convincingly claimed, GM switched on viking. correct me if i'm missing something! so you think they staged that fight over the no-lynch/lynch business? I'm not fully understanding this. | ||
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On November 05 2011 11:22 supersoft wrote: okay good point. but remember that kuru brought us this idea. so they could easily argue against each other about general strategies and noone of them is responsible for the initiation of that. the discussion brought us nowhere and its not their fault. one thing i wanna have a look on, is their behaviour towards chaoser. i didnt implement that in my theory yet. o_O it was kurumi's idea? what the actual fuck looooool I didn't know kurumi had ideas | ||
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On November 05 2011 11:34 bumatlarge wrote: And shame on everyone who discouraged poor hyshes with his train of thought. While a completely obsurd plan that would be impossible, and then really awful play on top of it, it does hint at the glaring weakness a frisky mafia team will get gutted for. It was heading in the right direction, but you would have overshot your destination by a few hundred miles at the rate you were running. "This kind of mafia" is the key phrase that we should consider in our analyses. That said, orthodox scumhunting is at it's finest here. I had certain suspicions rummaging through the thread, so I was very happy to have GM a step ahead of me. I was fairly certain redff was scum (not so much kitaman). I'm very curious about how their claim would have fleshed out, but with no counter-claim, and the 50/50 risk of being dead wrong as scum, I can't really reach any gamestate where mafia would do that. And that early. Holy shit, you guys had like 2 votes on you. Split milk I guess. Forumite and prphlz was a poor lynch choice, I think there were better options available. The second player I was suspicious of behind red was WBG, mainly from this post. I felt like that was a backwards conclusion to make. I know bugs is a universally aggressive player, so seeing him draw out this line, from what I can tell, a newer player, seems like play focused in the wrong direction. And then this drops of the map. Incredibly odd. I concluded that radfield convinced him it was a bad idea to pursue this, but radfield's posts have not impressed me. I'm mostly suggesting that people take the "Interactions" philosophy to heart when they analyze. There is no direction to point blues in with the known info, so please don't try. Guess you didn't read the thread very well, did you bum? I pushed Team Edward ALL DAY yesterday. I thought they were the best lynch yesterday. It never "dropped off the map." It's just dumb people who drowned it out with their retarded idea to lynch team viking, and the GM-team red21 interaction that got the PC claim out there. Second, Radfield supported lynching Team Edward too! Guess you didn't see that, but let's reiterate his words for you, shall we? On November 05 2011 02:28 Radfield wrote: sorry bugs, not on my comp. and yes, lol at asking who the cop is checking  Unless there is a counter claim, we're not lynching kita/red. With a 50% chance of the cop being in the game, it's a ballsy claim, and done earlier in the day than a desperate scum move typically would(unless you're iGrok). If you are the Parity Cop, and kita/red are lying, you absolutely need to claim. It is by far the most info a parity cop will net us. That leaves us a whole slew of teams on the table. I think Team Edward is still by far our best bet. Team Switzerland is a good bet at this point as well(Bum&iGrok), but I don't think adding another team to the mix is the best play right now. Likewise Team Nipple. Team SS is best left for another day in my eyes. On November 04 2011 22:42 Radfield wrote: Well, a lurker lynch at this point means You Kurumi... At some point presumably you will have time today, yes? Who do you think is the best target for the lynch? Do you still think no-lynch is the best option? If you think we should no-lynch, which teams do you think are likely town. We need to consolidate our votes at this point. Sandro + Decon: Anyone voting for Sandro+Sevyrn needs to reaffirm that they still think this is the best lynch. I don't think it' a terrible lynch, as Sandro is rubbing me the wrong way. However, he is a solid player and I'm confident he will either start to make sense or start to look very red. Kurumi + RoL: Lurker Lynch. Kurumi has used a lot of words and very little content, while RoL has used no words at all.. I'm not sure why you are playing the upset card here though Kurumi. What you posted was fairly generic, despite whether you are trying to be helpful or not. Also, RoL's actions DO reflect on you, whether you like it or not, just like Bugs reflects on me, and so on. It's not your fault, but it's something you have to accept. iGrok, it's now the second have of day 2, so it's time for you to break things out. I'll admit that I'm mildly skeptical of you actually discussing much with your partner considering the circumstances, but that's neither here nor there. I assume you have plenty to contribute to the lynch discussion at this point. Chaoser and Hyshes: A good lynch target at this point, though I'm willing to be swayed. Hyshes: I do not think Hyshes is scummy because he came into the thread and proposed a bad plan. In fact, that is NOT what happened. Hyshes did not propose any plan at all, because his 'plan' was obviously impossible long before he brought it up. Yet this did not stop him from speaking at length about it. Does this make him scum? Of course not, but certain people here feel that proposing bad plans is a townie trait(certainly not always true) but that is most emphatically NOT what happened. Since then he has contributed nothing to the lynch discussion, and has played the newbie card several times. Chaoser: I fully agree with his views regarding posting logs. The game of Mafia should be played as Mafia. That being said I also recognize how supersofts plan was abusive to town. Town players generally do not react angrily to abusive pro-town plans(see PYPI where everyone who was really upset about Jimbo smurfing IRC was scum). However, I'm willing to write that off as a null-tell at best. What I am NOT willing to write off as a null tell is the fact that Chaoser has almost no contribution outside of his own defense. In PYPI Chaoser came alive with posts to defend himself and very little else(as scum). He is doing a similar thing here, as well as giving himself excuses for future inactivity(advisory capacity). To be perfectly clear Chaoser, I do not think you are scum because you are defending yourself, simply because you are only defending yourself. What are your reads Chaoser, who is scum, who is town, who should we lynch today. Show me that I'm wrong.... dazzle me... Yeah, that definitely makes it seem like Radfield was opposed to us lynching chaoser and hyshes. Like I said earlier today, I'm not going to tolerate people being illiterate during this game. | ||
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On November 05 2011 13:08 bumatlarge wrote: Ah I see that chaoser is that team. Chaoser is a different story, I haven't read his posts too closely. I am referring to you pushing hyshes without more then what radfield surmised in that last post of his. Those posts by radfield are exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying "unimpressed". I'm used to radfield being more helpful and conclusive, and I'm not seeing that here. He hasn't given me much reason to put him red, but it's odd play and it should be noted. I don't understand. I pushed hyshes because his post seemed mafia-motivated. Only scum want to appear "good" and try to minimize mistakes to the greatest extent possible. He even said that he wanted good attention from his plan, and it was clear he had nothing else to contribute. I don't care what his plan was, and I never did. I cared and still care only about how he behaved. His behavior is not consistent with what I think a townie would do. A townie does not appear, post something like that, then disappear when the heat is turned up. That's exactly what he did. In addition, the only other significant thing he did later was start the bandwagon on prpl/forumite. He also showed that he wasn't reading people's posts. For example, in a post iGrok made (that was a bunch of links as to why sandro is scummy), he said this: On November 04 2011 08:01 hyshes wrote: I don't see how referring to another game says something? Which means, he didn't even click the link. Then, the last thing he did? He basically started the wagon on prpl/Forumite. On November 05 2011 02:23 hyshes wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 20:59 Forumite wrote: It´s not abusing mechanics, it´s using what you have in order to win. The biggest advantage of an IRL-mafia is gone, we can´t see the other players, but it´s not like reading faces is "abusing the mechanics" in an IRL-game, it´s just part of the game, like going back and checking posts is in a forum game. Chaoser is absolutely correct in that forgeable logs can loose Town the game, I just don´t agree with reflexively throwing away tools that might have helped us. This still doesn´t excuse how Chaoser and hyshes has acted in other respects, Chaoser taking a backseat while his partner suggest Anti-Town plans. I thought Chaoser would have stepped in if he thought hyshes was making a fool of himself, instead he waited until he was called out. Chaoser was actively lurking while his team was being accused, that doesn´t make sense, unless he was weathering the storm, hoping that hyshes would be excused because of him being new. One player is acting scummy, and the other just happens to be acting scummy, makes me suspect they are a scumteam. ##Vote TEAM EDWARD + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2011 07:52 prplhz wrote: Well I'm sold, I hope Forumite feels the same way 'cause: ##Unvote ##Vote Team SS + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2011 11:57 Forumite wrote: I´ve got my eyes on Team Nipple, both of them. Let me show you some relevant posts:+ Show Spoiler + It´s actually the only relevant posts since the game started, and there´s 2 of them... On November 04 2011 02:31 Kurumi wrote: Kurufesto It's good to be back, guys. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 07:45 GMarshal wrote: Cool, a game of mafia [center] ![[image loading]](http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/186616/face-the-reaper-skull-31000.jpg) [/center] It's traditional at this point to post a picture of the reaper So, Iets do this thing. First thing first As usual there is no excuse for lurking, don't do it and you won't have me lobbing for your lynch. Seriously, 2 players per team should mean a more than decent level of activity, you aren't going to get away with 2~3 posts per cycle unless they are an outstanding, wall of text, analytical set of three posts. So post, transparency and information means we have a greater chance of success. Second thing (this should *not* be a point of discussion, as what I am about to talk about is too general for us to really talk about, I just wanted to make sure it was said). Because there are no vigilantes, if we have a jailkeeper he should be using his protect/roleblock offensively, that is "protecting" scum in an attempt to roleblock the kill, rather than going after the most outspoken townies and possibly roleblocking a power role. This style should encourage activity (scum no longer want to risk being lurkers if it might make their kill fail) and with the possibility of a medic in play scum still cannot afford to shoot the top players. Other than that there isn't that much to say on the setup until we get later in the day and can talk about dt lists and such. My lurker policy remains the same as always, and yeah, that's about it. I am against lynching lurkers. First, the setup is really small, so we should delay the game and make it as long as we could. Scum, unless terrible or really overloaded with RL stuff (they shouldn't join game then, but hey it happens) won't lurk. Remember, scum are those MIDDLE guys, not so active or inactive to draw attention. "But it sounds so cool Kurumi... go get them Yourself, let me derp my way to LYLO" Yeah I know Towns on TL are quite damn lazy and with all the info coming out at the beginning of the game, quoting guides by either side and stuff like that and forget all of it after D1 lynch but.. I am not going to forget, I wish to play my best this game. "But Kurumi, Mafia has a Role Cop!" With 1 blue, they will have hard time finding Team with it. With 2 blues, we will get enough protection/information to retaliate strong enough. Remember, the more time Parity Cop gets, the stronger we are, because he can slowly confirm people. I think we shouldn't worry about Mafia Role Cop too much. Lurker lynch is a bad idea. We either no-lynch or lynch the scummiest fuckers out there. With a mislynch, Mafia ALREADY got their KP per cycle! If we don't get a good protect/block or we just don't have roles for it, 2 people are dead by Day 2. Meanwhile, Mafia Role Cop has checked one of the roles. That means, 3 out of 7 people roles are known to Mafia, another lynch and it's 4 out of 5, if the (only one) blue survived to this time, he will be killed during the night, no matter the lynch result. Summary: Lurker lynch is a terrible idea, Mafia rarely lurk without any special plan. No lynch does not put us behind: Our blue will survive longer this way. Lynch = scummiest person, remember! Try to keep Your post readable... I am trying, so You should too. On November 04 2011 02:49 Kurumi wrote: Lurker lynching is often an excuse not to lynch someone, just add "I dunno, he doesn't seem so scummy to me" and voila, You've got Your lurker lynch. Giving You no information about people who voted on the lurker (and we probably won't have this problem) and giving You a green flip. Day 1 lurker lynch is.. worse than a no-lynch, because we will hit town on 99% of basis. Analysis: + Show Spoiler + Kurumi makes two policy posts, both saying that lynching lurkers is a bad idea, then proceed to lurk again. I don´t know if this is some crazy plan by a scumteam to confuse Town, or if they´ve just given up on the game, but whatever it is they need to snap out of it and post. If we are looking for anti-Town behavior, then here it is, and they deserve to be lynched for it. First TEAM VIKING is trying to get all kinds of votes going on different teams. And then, out of the blue, without metioning team red21 before, they directly go along with GM's post. + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2011 01:08 Forumite wrote: I don´t have much time to post. I just want to say that I support GM's case and throwing mine and prplhz's vote to support it. We won´t be here for the lynch, but I think it´s the best place to put that vote right now, so that´s what we have to go by. If something huge comes up before the deadline then I expect there to be enough people online that one vote won´t much matter. ##Unvote ##Vote Team Red21 Also: FoS Nipple, post moar! No reasoning whatsoever. The sole reasoning is, "they're scum because they're voting a lot of different people!" On November 05 2011 13:08 bumatlarge wrote: I never said radfield wasn't pushing it publicly, but I feel like there was a missing conversation where you pushed a team who you thought was scum, and where nobody really "convinced" radfield it was a bad lynch, yet Forumite/prphlz took priority for you guys. Making a case that people agree with then giving way to another lynch that wasn't on your radar from what I can tell by both your posts, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. #1. You didn't say it explicitly, but that's what you're heavily implying by saying that it sounds like there's some sort of "missing conversation" and that pushing hyshes and chaoser was a bad idea. Of course it wasn't, hyshes and chaoser were the best lynch yesterday. No one else saw that because of the bandwagon on prpl and the big red21 parity cop business. The bandwagon on team viking started so fast and late in the day that neither Radfield nor I could really do anything about it. Neither of us were really here. (I wasn't even aware of who was being lynched until those last 5 minutes or so) On November 05 2011 13:08 bumatlarge wrote: You seem to want to fight about saying something I didn't say, so commence getting over that. Team Edward won't be our lynch tomorrow, but I will read chaoser's posts again. The only thing radfield and you seem to be harping on about is lack of content, which is usually not a strong case. rofl. So you admit you haven't even read chaoser's posts, but you seem to be completely dismissing them as a lynch possibility tomorrow? Wtf? And no, Radfield and I are NOT harping on about lack of content. You need to read our posts better. Lastly, if this is true: On November 05 2011 11:34 bumatlarge wrote: Forumite and prphlz was a poor lynch choice, I think there were better options available. The second player I was suspicious of behind red was WBG, mainly from this post. Why the hell was your team's vote on Forumite and prpl? You were replaced in 10.5 hours before lynch, so you don't really get to absolve yourself of responsibility by pulling the "I wasn't there" card. | ||
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On November 05 2011 14:14 chaoser wrote: \ I actually want to clarify what he meant with this statement cause I was confused by it as well. Apparently he plays mafia at his university and they don't use meta...crazy, I know. This still doesn't make sense, because iGrok's post wasn't concerned with sandro's meta. It was just posting sandro's filter, IIRC. He never linked another game in the first place. | ||
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On November 05 2011 14:53 chaoser wrote: Also I know you've been following the newbie game and hyshes play in this game pretty much matches up with his play in that game. And that is, he's playing in a way that's totally foreign to us, specifically because he's use to playing a different form of the mafia game where the meta is so different as to be alien. False. Just on numbers alone, hyshes is not playing like he did in the newbie game. hyshes has committed several times more effort to the newbie game than to this one. 12 game-relevant posts so far in this game, with at least half of those being one liners (or just in general rather useless) We've had 21 pages of posts in this game, or around 440 posts. 12/440=2.7% of the total posts. There are 18 players total, so if you merely divide the proportion evenly you should get 5.5% of total posts per player, on average, or 24 posts. Hyshes has half of that. Hyshes had four times this many in the newbie game; 48 posts, and it hasn't lasted much longer either, only one more day. There were about 350 posts in that game between when it started and when he died. Newbie game of 12 players, hyshes has 13.7% of the posts by the end of day 2, when divided equally among all 12 players it would be expected for him to have around 8.3%. In addition, the overall content of his posts was better too. Don't believe me? Read the filters yourself. newbie mafia filter hyshes filter (this game) We can't really discuss an ongoing game in here though, so that's all I will say on that. | ||
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On November 05 2011 23:32 chaoser wrote: How can you even compare numbers when this game is a team game when that one isn't? Just by the pure fact that I am able to fill in for him when he is unable/uncomfortable/don't know what to do when posting makes it a moot point to compare post numbers. Not to mention you're not looking at the actual situation of how he posts and instead looking at generalization of "relevant posts" which is still bullshit. In this game, he posts a bad plan, and starts getting pressured, he shuts down and stops posting, not even defending himself. I had to come in to defend. In that game, he gets a case put together and then voted on by Harbringer at a time when Drem had 3 votes on him, including a vote by the main other influential player. He immediately shuts down and posts "Yeah sure, lynch me." For the rest of the game he posts that this martyr is a smart plan/move that will help town. Pretty much all of it is one-liner or useless When he's finally pushed to actually post something on Toad, he posts mostly one liners while quoting him. All of them were simple statements saying the same thing which is the general sentiment of "Toad doesn't care about which townie dies" Can't tell if you're being obtuse or scum >_> I'm not going to bother arguing about this anymore, you're clearly not willing to listen to reason, or read properly. The number of times people keep mentioning that hyshes "just posted a bad plan" is starting to piss me off. It was never about the plan and never will be. | ||
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On November 06 2011 10:55 kitaman27 wrote: Radfield and bugs, you both indicated that you were against the idea of no lynch, but your absence from the thread would have lead to a no lynch had it not been for the last minute lynch of team viking. You casually mention team edward is the best lynch, but put in no effort pushing it. Why is that? Sandroba, you haven't done anything to make me think you are town. You mentioned that your no lynch plan was an attempt to get reactions from people and that people made some very good points that you agreed with, yet at the end still advocates a no lynch. You said it was because we claimed as PC. Could you explain how that makes any sense at all? The only reason for a no lynch was to hide the identify of the PC. RoL, are you aware the game started? Stop being dumb/thick and start reading the thread. It'll answer at least half your questions. | ||
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On November 06 2011 10:55 kitaman27 wrote: [/b]Radfield and bugs, you both indicated that you were against the idea of no lynch, but ]b]your absence from the thread would have lead to a no lynch had it not been for the last minute lynch of team viking. You casually mention team edward is the best lynch, but put in no effort pushing it. Why is that? Absence was already explained (several times) Second bolded part is a straight up lie. We didn't "casually" mention it. The reason team edward didn't get lynched is because team Edward started the bandwagon on team viking, GM started the pressure on you/red, (which led us to wasting a whole bunch of time) So, for the last time, it isn't our fault that this town is dumb and team Edward did not get lynched. | ||
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At least one of those teams is scum, and I think Edward provides the best chance of finding scum there. @GM, bum thought I was scum, and iGrok thought the sandro team was scum. Other than that there isn't much to go on. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:42 GMarshal wrote: suggests to me that you aren't even reading the thread. Welcome to my world, bro. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:47 chaoser wrote: You pushed red21 which became a pc claim, that I will admit. But then you left when the end of day came, the most important time. Your teammate came but didn't do much. I'm more pissed off at the shitty logic that people are using to try to lynch my team. You've played with me enough to know that's exactly how I respond. Still didn't address why I would be so active to push for a lynch btw me and Viking at the end of day to avoid a no lynch Yeah, when you're scum you start getting pissed off and stop using logic. If this were a PM game you'd probably be trying to guilt trip us into not lynching you. In PYP:I you tried changing the lynch to heist when it was apparent you were going to get lynched. It would've worked, too, if we hadn't decided on node instead. In this game, your team chose to push team viking (and it succeeded). You guys STARTED the bandwagon on them. lol. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:51 chaoser wrote: If I was mafia I could have sat back and waited for a no lynch I don't think mafia would've cared if there was a lynch or a no-lynch yesterday, but you guys were one of the main lynch targets. Of course it would ease suspicion on you to push a different target and stay active till the end of the day. That's precisely what you tried doing in the previous game where you were scum. Then we shot you. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:56 chaoser wrote: People trying to say how I don't get emotional if im townie are fucking ridiculous...I didn't realize my meta game boiled down to "if mafia and pressured, will get emotional, lynch asap." I must be the shittest mafia player in the world. Nah, I just think as a townie you read better, you're more logical, you look for scum more actively, and you don't backlash against everyone who has a suspicion of you. Having reread everything that happened before lynch I think I'm content with this: ##vote Team Edward You started the huge bandwagon on team viking, and you guys nearly got away with it. I really don't think it'd be a very good idea to let you guys get away a second day in a row. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:59 chaoser wrote: So your saying a townie wanting to not get lynched is a scum tell meta? How is that a scum tell? ##Vote: team chenizu Shitty logic? Radfield being not active? Still alive past day one? A check. Mafia LOL ninjaed me Your entire case on us is based on the fact that we're alive? Radfield and I talked about this yesterday. We knew someone was going to use it as a reason to vote us. It was only a matter of time, I suppose. | ||
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On November 06 2011 12:59 chaoser wrote: So your saying a townie wanting to not get lynched is a scum tell meta? How is that a scum tell? What in the fuck is a "scum tell meta?" | ||
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On November 06 2011 13:04 chaoser wrote: How was I not being logical again? Viking was pretty scummy. My case was way better than your case on me which is solely based on this conception that I'm some sort of mafia god and if I'm under performing that I'm mafia. And tgat defending myself is a scum tell...What a shit case. Hope everyone can see this Oh please. Your entire case on prpl and forumite was that they voted a lot of people. That's total bullshit and you know it. Don't give me "your case was shit" when hyshes is still not around. Once again you can't read. I never praised your town play. I just said you're not stupid as fuck when you're town, whereas right now you're making no sense at all. I never said defending yourself is a scum tell. I said easing suspicion by pushing a bandwagon on Team Viking was the perfect way for you to avoid lynch. | ||
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On November 06 2011 13:07 chaoser wrote: Shitty logic, radfield being very inactive and being alive are all part of it. If I was mafia why would I kill igrok/bum? I would kill you and radfield. oh look more WIFOM! mafia might also not choose to shoot us because it would give derp town a really easy reason to push a mislynch on us! jesus you actually think this reasoning flies? | ||
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