World at War 2 Mafia
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Curu
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Curu
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We already seem torn on how to use the nukes. In most town bandwagons there’s going to be at least a few scum so the lynched will probably fire some nukes. I kind of like sandroba’s suggestion but I think only in advantageous situations where a good scumread can be obtained (ie if we lynch a scum and he flips red). It’s much harder to get reliable scumtells on a flipped green. Still let’s not be too hesitant to use nukes. The advantages the scum have in Mafia games are that: 1. They start with more information than anyone else 2. They have unified KP With the nuke mechanic giving Town a share of that second advantage. We just have to figure out the best way to use it first. | ||
Curu
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[QUOTE]On July 05 2011 18:18 prplhz wrote: Mafia has measly 1 kp this game,[/QUOTE] How do you know Mafia has KP of 1? It wasn't in the OP and it's a closed setup.? | ||
Curu
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Mafia have more information than anyone right now so they may agree to follow just because they don't see their own members near the top of the list and want to do so to force out all the nukes of the Town. Letting them see the player list order now and knowing what it implies can only be used to their advantage. Randomize it and introduce some doubt into their decision making. | ||
Curu
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What do you do if many people start claiming they have no nukes? From the first game it appears many of the blue roles had no nukes. You risk outing some power roles and may end up killing them if you are fanatic about lynching those who refuse to aim their nukes where you want/have no nukes left. Still I like the idea as long as its feasibly enforceable and enough people get on board. If you have too much opposition it's just going to create more chaos. | ||
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On July 05 2011 20:01 sandroba wrote: @curu We can confortably say that most players have nukes, otherwise there would be no conspirator and the threshold on radiation wouldn't be "fairly high". It doesnt matter if mafia holds nukes because as soon as they use them they get lynched and get their nukes shot down. You are assuming powerroles do not have nukes, which is based on nothing at all (last game some most people had nukes, regardless of role. People that didn't have them were vanilla/mafia/blue so nothing can be said about that). Having someone randomize is exactly the same or pehaps worse than following the list, since said person can choose the order and has no way to prove that said list was actually randomize. Again this does not matter at all, I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Quote directly taken from last game: USA (5 nukes,2 anti-nukes) Russia ( 6 nukes) UK (1 anti-missile defense nuke, 0 nukes, masoned to Canada) France (watcher, 0 nukes) China (3 nukes,PGO) India (1 anti-nuke missile defense system, 1 nuke) Pakistan ( 1 nuke) NK ( 2 nukes,sneak attacks) Italy (2 nukes) Germany (3 nukes) Japan (6 nukes,1 anti Mafia GF) Colombia (SK/immune to nk and RC/steal 1 nuke/anti-nuke per night or nk) Sweden (1 nuke shield,can block 1 hit at night, mafia) Egypt (medic [Jailkeeper], 0 nukes) Israel (2 nukes, mafia) Canada (masoned to UK, 1 nuke) Brazil (mafia role blocker, 0 nukes) Antarctica (Veteran that can take 1 nuke, 0 nukes) UN Security Council (Sane|Insane|Paranoid Cop(Ambiguous Cop), 0 nukes) Australian Survivor (upside down world, anyone who nukes you has nukes sent back to them, has 0 nukes but can NK once, immune to one NK and can be lynched,show up as Innocent to alignment checks) Iraq - Vigilante (0 nukes) Mexico - Vengeful Townie (1 nuke) Looks to me like no power role had nukes. I don't know if that's the case this game but last one pretty much only the Vanilla Townies and Mafia had Nukes. You're right about the list thing that there's no way to know who truly randomized it. Maybe Caller can do that (just asking for him to randomize a list, shouldn't be a big deal)? Still it's not a huge deal, just chipping away at anything Mafia can use that we can't. | ||
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@Drazerk: The Veteran claiming doesn't make sense to me...how do we test them? The only way is to have Vigi shoot them or to have someone nuke them, and both are extremely counterproductive to Town (not to mention wasting that extra life they got anyways). I agree with GMarshall, between Gunnerside and the no-nuke policy we can effectively neuter the Mafia from using their nukes until they're all gone. ##:Operation Gunnerside | ||
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That said IMO lurkers hurt Town more than anything else. With a full active playerbase Mafia has to be active meaning more chances for scumslips and important information leaking out. If they can just hide in the lurkers, we have nothing to go on. I'd like to lure out Cthsazsa, Zona , ~OpZ~ or gtrsrs as they haven't posted -anything- at all. Looks like there's one other for Zona so let's get that started. ##Vote: Zona | ||
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On July 06 2011 10:47 chaos13 wrote: ..you agree that he made a scum slip...and you vote for someone else. What the fuck? Willing to give the benefit of the doubt for now. If you notice, I'm the one that called him out on the scumslip first so believe me I'm putting weight into it. sandroba's been more active than most though and his posts actually have content in them. My vote on him hinged on what operation he voted for and the one he did choose didn't set off my alarms. Nothing is more dangerous than scum being able to hide amongst Townie lurkers so that's my modus operandi until all the lurkers start doing something useful. | ||
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On July 06 2011 10:55 sinani206 wrote: This post is scummy as fuck. It sounds like you and sandroba are both scum, and you screwed up by sharing his scumslip and now you want to come back and defend your ally. Why should your vote hinge (to use your word) on which operation he voted for? Your vote should be for the scummiest player. The whole lurker excuse is complete bullshit. ##Vote: sandroba I propose a nuke of Curu lol? Why would I even point out his scumslip if I didn't want to draw attention to it? How cute, you ignore all the accusations on you in this thread and instead try to divert attention on me with something completely stupid and baseless. Seems like you're in a hurried panic, hmm? My vote hinged on what operation he voted for because he had a whole argument formed based on Mafia's nukes being useless. If sandroba had gone against that whole line of argument he was making (and he was quite involved with it) then he would have appeared scummy as fuck. But he didn't. Instead you now appear scummy as fuck. Saying a lurker excuse is bullshit without providing any reasoning? Proposing to nuke me because I didn't lynch based on a scumslip that I FIRST POINTED OUT? If I had wanted that scumslip unavoided I wouldn't have posted anything about it. I still want to draw the lurkers out but I'd suggest everyone keeping a firm eye on you. | ||
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On July 06 2011 11:08 sinani206 wrote: I acknowledge pressure votes of me in this thread, and that's why I'm accusing you. Note that the votes for me are pressure votes, not votes to kill me. What I'm saying is you are covering your mistake of pointing it out by not voting him now. I'm saying you made a mistake by pointing it out in the first place and want to correct it. There are other ways people can be scummy besides contradicting themselves. Just because sandroba didn't contradict himself doesn't mean he's clear at all. The lurker excuse was bullshit because you are using it to draw attention away from sandroba by choosing to lurker-hunt instead. You announce the scumslip on sandroba and then don't pressure him and make the excuse of wanting to find scum among lurkers. You could have just voted for sandroba, but you want to defend him because you are both scum. Ok explain one thing to me. Why did I point it out in the first place if we are both scum then? The whole bandwagon against sandroba is starting because of that scumslip. I POINTED OUT THAT SCUMSLIP. I'm not trying to back up and I'm not trying to cover my tracks. I drew attention to that scumslip because I wanted everyone to be aware of it. I just don't think it's as much grounds for serious pressuring yet based purely off of that. You STILL haven't posted anything explaining your scummy posting that's getting you pressured and instead try to draw attention to me. That's just creating more confusion for Town. You're looking scummier by the second. I'm not trying to draw attention away from sandroba. I'm going in with guns blazing. Every single one of my posts at him has mentioned his scumslip. I just don't think he's shown to be more dangerous (yet) than many other people. You very much included. | ||
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On July 06 2011 11:34 sinani206 wrote: I KNOW THAT YOU POINTED OUT THAT SCUMSLIP. I've said that multiple times. What I'm saying is that you realize how big of a deal that is and don't want to lose a teammate day one. I'd like an example of my "scummy posting that's getting me pressured" so I can explain it. Is that what you want? What do you mean "more dangerous?" If he's scum, you vote for him. Period. It's obviously better to lynch him than someone else who might be town but isn't playing well. Sometimes people forget that town wins when all of the scum are dead. If sandroba is scum, you kill him. Uhh, go look at the accusations against you. Don't pretend you haven't seen them, you acknowledged that you were being pressured but didn't post anything to explain yourself. If I didn't want to lose a "teammate" day one I never would have mentioned that scumslip in the first place. Honestly what advantage would that give to me? Explain it. If we're both scum, what advantage would me pointing out his scumslip give me? Town cred? I could only gain that if I followed up immediately with a full-out conviction to lynch him and the lynch went through. I don't know that he's scum. He has a scumslip but he gave his reasoning for that. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but try to redirect attention to me when there's pressure on you. Even then, you haven't brought up one legitimate reason against me besides that I pointed out a scumslip but am not foaming-at-mouth lynching the person responsible behind it. I explained my reasoning. Hell, sandroba even explained his reasoning for the slip. The only person who hasn't done anything constructive is you. I'm done arguing with you. We're just distracting the Town now and you don't seem to want to throw up anything constructive besides rehashing your non-points. | ||
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On July 06 2011 11:50 sandroba wrote: I like that no one comented ON MY HUGE FUCKING CASE on palmar that proves he is scum, then vote for me for something I already explained. First of all you are calling that scum slip (it's a mistake btw, based on previous games knowledge) before we even know how many fucking kp mafia actually has. Good job. Also anyone that agreed to my plan should be voting to lynch palmar regardless since he broke the no nukes rule, shorttened the day and possibly took away an extra life from another player for no reason. He didn't even follow his own plan. God knows if he has nukes or not. Use your head and vote for palmar. He is 100% scum. I don't like metagame arguments because there's so much WIFOM possible there's it's a clusterfuck. The main argument I see against Palmar is that he fired a supposed dud when nothing good could come out of it (either he hits a Vet and costs them a life or nothing happens). He claims ignorance of the rules but it's pretty apparent IMO in the OP. He does look pretty scummy since I can't find anything to gain for Town from his actions and only possible losses. Right now I find sinani much more scummy though. And I still want these lurkers to come out and contribute something. | ||
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With Caller stating that extra lives do absorb nukes it's best to proceed with lynches being the only surefire way to off someone. It's nice that we have that "second lynch" but it's far from a sure thing with multiple lives, antimissiles, players that may be nuke immune, and anything else devious that Caller can think of. Right now I feel like the argument falls into whether we think a policy lynch is worth giving scum an easy bandwagon to hitch on to. Of course we need to enforce the policy if we want to use that policy. Mataza's weak defense and actions show that he is either: 1) Really reckless Which is terrible for whichever side he may be on or 2) Unafraid to be lynched or nuked due to his role I don't think there's a lynch survivor power as that's pretty ridiculous so I'd really like to see what Mataza's actual motive is. Ciryandor's defense is either a scumtell or a noobtell and both are pretty bad for Town. Once again, I'd give benefit of the doubt for now. Remember that Palmar essentially did the same thing Mataza is doing now except he claimed his was a dud while Mataza has not done so. His actions have even less motive though as they couldn't possibly do anything but hurt town whereas Mataza may actually think sandroba is scum/Conspirator. sinani still hasn't given any explanation for himself and everyone seems to have forgotten about him. To me his posting is the most scummy out of anyone but actions > words and we have two people right now who have launched nukes/duds. Whether or not to let the nuke on sandroba depends on the read that whoever has animissiles has gotten on him. If he is scum then surely one of his scumbuddies will save him unless they know he can take the hit. His biggest misstep so far has been that (thus far unconfirmed) scumslip and the rest of his posts have been either advocating his policy or tunneling Palmar and giving nothing on anyone else. ...and now we have even more of a clusterfuck with youngminii's nuke. Do we policy lynch him too? That's going to make reading scum even more difficult. I don't think this policy is going to work too well despite its good intentions. | ||
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JeeJee's post: On July 07 2011 02:39 JeeJee wrote: The fact that minii anti-nuked sandroba I think is a little bit odd. Think about what happened in WaW1, the only nukes that were shot down were aimed at mafia members (and I believe a mason). Why? If you're a townie, you don't know anything about anyone, and if you have any anti-nukes, they're in very limited supply. Why would you use them to save someone that you don't know is townie, when instead you can use them as self-defence, on someone you know is townie (yourself). Obviously mafia and masons can (and did) do so, because they know that they're saving a teammate. Just a thought... Has some really relevant points that all of you seem to be ignoring. Why would someone waste something as valuable as 2 antinukes when you don't even know the other guy's alignment? sandroba spends his entire time advocating his policy then goes ahead and nukes someone AGAINST HIS OWN POLICY. This blatant contradiction, coupled with his scumslip earlier and JeeJee's post make me strongly believe he is scum. But then again nothing in this game makes any fucking sense right now. | ||
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On July 07 2011 04:42 sandroba wrote: I don't have counter nukes, else I would have used them on ym and sinani, which I'm pretty sure are town at this point. And now this too. You're DEFENDING THE PEOPLE YOU SAID SHOULD BE INSTANTLY LYNCHED ON BEHALF OF TOWN? You really don't give a shit about the policy you so vehemently proposed do you? It's beginning to seem to me like you wanted to advocate all this stuff to seem pro Town but once shit hit the fan you show your true colours. | ||
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Why are you doing a complete 180 and now independently nuking and advocating for people who are also independently nuking? You spent like 4 pages trying to set up this policy. You, sinani, YM should all be lynched by town under your policy. And yet now you claim that they are the ones that are "obviously Town" when you yourself said no one but Mafia has a valid reason to go against your policy. You don't seem to care at all about it. I'm not completely convinced you're scum because nothing makes sense right now but you seem to be just advocating chaos. | ||
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On July 07 2011 04:49 GMarshal wrote: And I'm the Chinese restaurant, but no one seems to give a damn about that one. I elected the glorious leader Cash Mai-Check over the treacherous Malt Soydong and got a counter nuke and a night life as a reward. Should have given into temptation and gotten Malt Soydong's two nukes and the ability to fire two nukes per day, imagine the hilarity. Dude your faction itself says: Chinese Restaurant: A small Chinese restaurant that has two diametrically opposed factions: There's probably another Chinese guy out there whose win condition is to kill you and win with Town. If all of you faction claiming truly are Town this is the most frustrating game I've ever played. I guarantee you there's a clusterfuck of win conditions that Caller has made. Can we please at least try to play this game in an analytical way instead of "holy shit I'm going to claim and nuke someone wheeeeeee." I don't even know if any of my reads make any sense now because most of you don't seem to give a flying fuck what's happening in this game. | ||
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On July 07 2011 04:56 sandroba wrote: @Curu IT'S in the fucking OP that CCCP is allied. Do you think there's no lenin in this game? Surelly you must be joking. Also how would I know Lenin wasn't in the game if I was scum? Don't you think I would claim a low key leader. Seriously stop being silly or eat a nuke tomorrow. Explain why you're acting completely opposite of your whole policy which you've been fighting for since day 0. It's the thing that had most people convinced you were pro Town because it made sense and you were extremely active about it. It's why I was willing to pardon your scumslip. Now you don't give a shit about it. | ||
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Town seems like they stopped trying as soon as nuke launched. | ||
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On July 07 2011 05:02 sandroba wrote: No, I won't explain shit. You now know I'm town, expend your energy hunting scum, not pestering me. I know you're Town because you blatantly contradict the thing that made you most appear Town and suddenly act like you don't give a shit what happens? HOW am I supposed to scumhunt when YOU'RE giving off the biggest scum signals to me but your defense is "lol don't mind me, go focus on someone else." If you truly are Town and everyone else is acting like this too, we might as well just random fire every nuke and hope we chance into finding Mafia because analysis isn't going to do anything. | ||
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On July 07 2011 05:03 sandroba wrote: Lol, I never said my plan wasn't to stop myself from doing shit like that . If mataza is scum, he wins MVP this game imo. Alright you know what. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm just going to go with my own scum signals. You're either full of shit and detracting from Town or you're scum. Fire a nuke at me then. But if you have even a shred of your original intentions left do it with reasoning and because you think I am scum. WHY ARE YOU STILL CALLING YOURSELF OBVTOWN? You are NOT obvtown to me. The only thing you claim makes you so obvtown is because no one contradicted a country leader name claim. We AGREED to not put too much weight on role and name claims. But you must not care, you don't even care about your own policy. | ||
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No I'm not going to nuke him. I'm not at that "awwww shiet let's just do whatever" stage that everyone seems to be at. Hey people. You have a LYNCH too. Let's stop nuking everyone we find suspicious and instead present an argument and USE THE LYNCH. | ||
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On July 07 2011 05:17 Drazerk wrote: Forgive me caller but im going to role claim as everyone else seems to and you hit the bulls eye with mine. + Show Spoiler + You are Neutral a crazed monk of the Swiss Confederation. You are a worshipper of the great glorious god known as Caller. As you are overly neutral your only concern is your countries Well being and so you must kill all conspirators before the war ends. In every post you must worship Caller for making such a brilliant game of Mafia and remind the players of his greatness. Due to being neutral you do not possess the ability to fire nukes but if you are killed in anyway the guilty player will die by divine intervention from your lord and savoir and the next night phase is skipped. Once all the conspirators have been removed from play you are also removed from the game but will receive an additional footnote in the endgame. I take it this is now an impossible feet for me to accomplish but im going to get at least one before I go down ##Vote: Palmar also caller is a BOSS Rules: Cheating: Posting any PM you receive from a host. If you really do get modkilled because of this you just wasted your extremely valuable power. Can we please stop roleclaiming and doing random shit and start scumhunting? | ||
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On July 07 2011 05:49 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...I'm only on page 11, but Curu just seems scummy. @_@....I f5'd page 49, and seen thread went up five more and I'm guessing sandroba nuked him? Clearly I wasn't the only one that thought that. No one's nuked me. If you think I'm scummy then make some arguments why. At least we can get discussion going again. Read the whole thread first. | ||
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On July 07 2011 10:19 GMarshal wrote: Sandroba instigated this whole Armageddon, so get him for me please. gtrs is lurking so nail him as well. Look at the people who were around and didn't comment on anything, look at those who just spontaneously decided I was scum, for no reason. Drazek is probably either scum or the neutral monk he claims to be, he makes a good lynch either way. Actually I don't think gtrsrs and Zona have posted at all. They might have just moved from lurker territory to modkill territory. At least OpZ is somewhat active now though his two only content posts both involve me. Tunnel inc. | ||
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tl;dr: using only pictures Everyone: Mataza: Everyone else: YM: sandroba: sinani: JeeJee: sinani: Kurumi: Caller: | ||
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This is why I think sandroba is scum: Scumslip - minor tell, could be an honest mistake. Going against his policy - huge thing for me since the thought and effort he put into his policy and the pro Town benefits of it made him seem Town. Then he goes and destroys the thing which made him seem pro Town. Now that that's gone he's moved onto this role/leader claim obsession which leads to my next point: Obsession with confirming himself as Town - moves onto role and leader names as defense and now declares himself "obvtown." There was absolutely no vote pressure on him but he still seem to have clearing himself as his #1 priority. This is a big scumtell for me since IMO Town should be more focused on scumhunting than self perseverance. He had a good analysis of Palmar and a huge post backing up his arguments. After that, absolutely nothing except trying to establish himself as "obvtown." Weak scumhunting after Palmar - extremely well thought out and articulated post against Palmar. Now just "Coagulation you mispelled Boreritish." Seems to want to draw focus and attention to role and name claims (something we agreed early on in the thread wasn't an accurate tell at all, citing Caller in WaW1). Coincidentally this scumhunting tactic also is the one that gives most credit to sandroba as Town. I really hope you aren't Town because after the first bit you entered blaring-alarm scum signal territory. And that means you played extremely poorly because your first few posts and analysis on Palmar looked like you were actively scumhunting. I tried not to tunnel on you but every post you make just furthers my suspicion. | ||
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On July 07 2011 16:05 sandroba wrote: Yes Curu we know you are suspicious of me. Keep telling yourself I'm scum and maybe my pm telling me I'm town will magically transform. Why not try to do something constructive for Town then? All I'm ever getting from you now is "yeah I'm suspicious. But I'm Town. Trust guys." And your only argument for that is your claimed role name despite the million other scummy things you've done. Coag's given nothing scummy except being a bit lurkerish. Stop trying to draw attention off yourself. If you want me off you then address the points I've raised against you. Do something other than blindly say you're obvtown with no backing besides a role name. | ||
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Palmar and sinani flipped 3rd party? And Mataza flipped green. Are we getting role powers for flips? Also, shoddy Chinese equipment, aliens(?) and zombies. WHAT. Caller u trolling? On July 07 2011 04:45 sandroba wrote: Read the thread curu. Me and sinani have claimed 2 leaders of CCCP that are 100% guaranteed to be present in this game. No one counter claimed us. Throwing suspicion at me at this point is stupid. Now do you see why I said name claiming is such a useless activity? Your fellow "obvtown" didn't flip Town. | ||
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The missile on YM headed somewhere else. Seems like there's also a form of antimissile that changes their targets. From YM's reactions and his previous antimissiles simply shooting it down I'm going to assume this wasn't him himself that did it. Someone else saved him as well. How did Mataza die? Was that YM's missile? I don't recall what happened to it. | ||
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I got that right right? | ||
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If Caller isn't telling us what their roles were after they flip then there's likely a Coroner type role in the game. | ||
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On July 08 2011 03:26 flamewheel wrote: wat y u quote my sig | ||
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On July 08 2011 03:23 JeeJee wrote: or you know, we could actually discuss shit, because staying quiet is something only mafia wants -.^ Anyway, I saved myself before I went to sleep since it seemed nobody was going to anyway. But I'm not quite sure what happened. Here's my log: palmar fakes GM -- mataza nukes sandro, anti-nuked by minii 7@2.14 -- "intercepted" minii nukes mataza, anti-nuked by GM 7@4.11 -- "gone awry" -- LANDED ANYWAY? mataza counter-nukes minii, anti-nuked by minii 7@3.01 -- "shot down" 15.10 sandro nukes GM -- boom (nothing happened) 16.02 sinani nukes YM -- WENT FOR PALMAR 16.06 jeejee nuke sinani -- boom 16.07 sinani counternuke jeejee -- "failed to detonate" My question is, what the fuck happened to minii>mataza, which caller clearly posted "gone awry" after GM claimed to have shot it down, but it landed anyway????? GM doesn't die, as I expected (come at me tonight mafias), and YM, instead of dying, somehow bounced the rocket to palmar who said "lol bye" and went into the atmosphere. And zombies. Good ol' Caller game.. Primary suspects: GM & chaos13, and minii unless he can explain what happened to the missile aimed at his face and why his missile only pretended to be shot down. 2 super fishy things with one person. Come at me mafias. I don't think YM redirected the nuke himself. He shot down the first one that Mataza aimed at him and it simply disappeared. He also shot down the one headed for sandroba, which also simply disappeared. This one didn't disappear, it just went after someone else. This leads me to believe that YM does not have a passive redirect nuke immunity and did not shoot down that nuke himself unless he has different types of antinukes (possible). More likely that someone's looking out for him. | ||
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Here's what confuses me so much: On YM I have a lurker -or- doesn't-care-just-wants-to-nuke read on him post-wise. Action-wise I'm leaning towards scum. He antis two missiles headed at sandroba without even knowing he is Town. Since there will obviously be many less antimissiles than actual missiles, they are not something you can just throw away like that especially two to save one person who isn't confirmed Town. He fires a nuke with no reason. On sandroba I have a definite scum read on his posts because of scumslip and how obsessed he is with pushing himself as obvtown. He also paints another as obvtown who turns out to be Cult (although more Town aligned Cult it appears). And says YM is obvtown. Either he really wants to put all his faith into name claims or he is clearing people way too easily. It should not be that easy to confirm Town unless you have information that no one else has. Also he's apparently a zombie but we don't know what that means yet. Action-wise, scum scum scum. Whole spiel about not nuking and having Town policy and then nukes GMarshal when it seems he can fly under the radar doing it (after several other people have already drawn huge attention launching nukes). Normally I'd peg these two as connected and, considering sandroba's clearing of sinani too, possibly all Cult members. sandroba puts a bit of meaningless pressure on YM then instantly backs off when a semi-valid reason appears to go back to claiming him Town. Looked like classic "I'm going to try to make it look like we're not connected but not actually put on any pressure." HOWEVER, the thing that makes no sense to me is that sandroba claimed nuke immunity and yet YM shot down two nukes headed at him. If they were really in contact with each other then there's no reason for YM to do that and draw attention to himself. So either they are not in contact, or they are restricted from telling each other about their abilities, or sandroba is not actually nuke immune. I can't see any other reason for YM to waste two antis like that when they would've done absolutely nothing except prevent radiation. It's tempting to just say that they're both playing extremely recklessly and headstrong and not scum because they radiate so many scum actions that it's absurd. But that line of thought only works if you assume Town is extremely herp derp dumb and Mafia is smart. If everyone can act so callously without consequences, it creates an environment where Mafia don't have to hide and can do whatever the hell they want; when everyone's giving off scum actions, then they lose any meaning for alignment analysis. Bad environment for Town since it just becomes a random lynch luck game except Mafia can influence votes away from themselves. | ||
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On July 08 2011 23:48 syllogism wrote: Look at the time line of sinani206 claiming Leon Trot-Ze and Sandroba claiming UMADIMIR LENEN. Pretty impressive improvisation if he managed to decide it was a good spot to fake claim and come up with a reasonable fake claim in less than 2 minutes. Plus him being Zombie Lenin makes sense. So much time wasted on people who are quite likely to be town at this point I don't think going off name or role claims is any good at determining innocence or guilt. I would rather rely on actual post and action analysis. Under this system scum can act as scummy and anti-Town as they want as long as their name claim is believed. Drazerk made up some bullshit claim and everyone instantly believed him. I despise the playstyle of clearing Town or pinning Mafia simply based on flavor. Honestly I don't know at this point. I'm going to go read through the thread again and focus on other people because I'm really starting to tunnel on just this issue and sandroba. I've thoroughly expressed my opinion on this matter. | ||
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Relying on name and role claims is just bad Town play. You even have a firsthand example in Drazerk. Sure you might get some relevant information but all it takes is one or two scum slipping through and becoming confirmed Town and you're going to have hell on lylo/mylo. | ||
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If someone is endangered of being lynched then we can get a claim but don't fall into the trap of relying on just that to prove innocence or guilt. | ||
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On July 09 2011 00:12 Zona wrote: We also don't seem to have an explanation on what happened to sinani's nuke on JeeJee. An extra life or other ability? He claims he antimissiled it himself. Which is either true on his part or smart scum play. Since antimissiles seem to be anonymous (unless someone has an ability that lets you see that info), we have no way to know. | ||
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Axis, Allies, zombies, Conspirator (maybe not, u dead), aliens, cult, and whatever the fuck else Caller has put into this game, hold hands and shout with me: WHERE MY DAY POST?!??! ##Vote: Caller + Show Spoiler + jk Caller you da best plz no modkill have funs at work | ||
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More tomorrow. Tired. btw look at this and Closed Casket Mafia for why I said confirming anyone as Town or Mafia based on their claim/flavour is just BAD TOWN PLAY. | ||
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On July 09 2011 16:29 sandroba wrote: Also JeeJee is mafia, let's lynch him. If people fail to acknowlegde it I'll provide analysis as soon as I'm sober again. I'm not listening to anything you say until YM and you flip. You two are definitely connected and I'm more convinced that Mafia has adopted the "this is so blatant they can't possibly think our scum actions mean we're scum." One of you dies by nuke and one of you dies by lynch today. If YM flips scum and you flip Town then I'll consider your analysis. You were right on about Palmar so I'll give you that, but the fact that he was a third party and not actual scum detracts some cred from you. I wouldn't be totally convinced that history means you are right about everything else. I suspected Palmar, sinani, and you the most and so far I'm 2/2 on non-Town with you remaining to flip. That doesn't mean I think my analysis is foolproof though. None of the people I suspected happened to be Mafia yet so I don't think I've pegged their play style yet. If YM and you flip red though I'm going hard after anyone who has been trying to hide in plain sight. | ||
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On July 09 2011 15:38 sandroba wrote: I don't know why he anti nuked me. At this point I can see how suspicious I might be since he protected me. Feel free to nuke or lynch me as you see fit, cuz I don't want to waste any more of town's time discussing me. If nuking me would satisfy you I advise it since it's unlikely scum would waste a anti-nuke on me knowing that I'm immortal. But anyway, you guys know what's best. Whenever I'm sober again (~24hours) I'm gonna post analysis nailing most of the scum team. And nuking you would most certainly not satisfy me. You claimed nuke immunity yourself. Good job trying to fish out some more nukes and chaos. I say we nuke YM and lynch sandroba. | ||
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It might take more than one nuke to kill YM. I propose we launch three max (even that's pushing it a bit. Maybe just two). If he still doesn't die we lynch one of him or sandroba and hope there's a Vig to take care of the other at night. | ||
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The only thing I couldn't understand was why you and YM were acting so action magnet-y. But neither of you drew much heat on day one so I'm convinced Mafia had at least some of their members try to hide in plain sight. Judging by how you two avoided significant lynch attention I'd say it almost worked except for chaos's flip. | ||
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DO. NOT. RANDOM. NUKE. Wait for the flips. PLEASE. The only nukes we should be firing right now are at YM or sandroba. YM and sandroba on the offchance that you are Town then give us your thoughts and analysis. In my eyes you are both dead men right now but if you are Town you will want to contribute something before you go. I am not going to give two shits about your analysis if you flip scum because I don't want to deal with WIFOM but I want these thoughts from both of you: If both of you flip green, who do you suspect and why? If you flip green and the other guy flips red, who do you suspect and why? I don't care about your analysis if you both flip red. But you can provide that too for shits and giggles if you want. I also don't care about your analysis if you flip red. Shits and giggles welcome. Also if you two are not scum then do not fire your missiles. I see you've already fired one sandroba (although without the ##, so who knows if it counts) but at least it's at the other suspected guy. As for the mass nameclaim thing, I'm going to come out and say that my power changes based on faction members dying. I'm sure scum has some similar mechanic. I tried to be as vague as possible in saying that there are probably anti nameclaim mechanisms but I'm going to come out and say it straight up now. I suspect there are some win conditions attached to the states of factions as well. Mataza got extra powers if a certain name died. I do not like the idea of name claiming but if you all agree to it then so be it. | ||
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On July 09 2011 17:52 syllogism wrote: I'm inclined to agree with Jeejee being mafia after seeing his town play in CCM I've followed that game pretty closely (and boosted my e-peen with it). JeeJee was Town for one day (he subbed in). And it was at lylo where you are forced into giving your utmost full analysis and thoughts. You don't care if you draw heat to yourself. You MUST compel your fellow players because knowing your own role is the single biggest advantage you have. No matter what playstyle you choose you have to be extremely vocal and extremely convicted at lylo. I'm not saying take JeeJee off your radar. But let's see these flips and what YM/sandroba think. | ||
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You also said you'd defend yourself then haven't said anything sandroba. Explain your actions. I'm inclined to believe you are a zombie because your posting went from extremely opinionated to extremely mellow right after the zombie alien crap and then heated up again when no one seemed to want to lynch you just for being a zombie (which I agree with, we don't know wtf zombies do). I asked: If both of you flip green, who do you suspect and why? If you flip green and the other guy flips red, who do you suspect and why? I don't care about your analysis if you both flip red. But you can provide that too for shits and giggles if you want. I also don't care about your analysis if you flip red. Shits and giggles welcome. Give these thoughts. Yes I'm tunneling you. As it is suspected lynch targets throw the wagon onto someone else way too easily. This town has no focus. Putting pressure on someone means nothing. This is a bad bad bad Town environment. If you actually ever make a compelling case that doesn't revolve around "lol stop tunneling me" or "lol I nameclaimed" or "lol if I was Mafia I wouldn't be playing this obvious" then I'll consider it. This fake day post thing has merit because either YM is acting like a thoughtless impulsive player (and that's damn good acting) or I really doubt his ability to come up with a fake name claim. Then again I doubt his ability to be able to think of something like an Axis campaign that fakes the name either. This is like reverse OMGUS now...you suck so much you can't be Mafia. If Town is convinced you guys are innocent then I'll take my attention off you two. I have more players I suspect but my reasons for tunneling you now are that if you are not killed: -We establish that players who randomly fire nukes at will, who fire their nukes when in danger of being lynched, and who have either provided nothing in terms of analysis (YM) or obsession with clearing themselves as obvtown (sandroba) are not under serious pressure to be lynched. -Mafia can play as reckless as they want, nuke everyone, and contribute no analysis except trying to clear themselves. This is like lurking where you can't get a read on anyone except worse because Mafia can kill people while doing it. I stated earlier that I -hate- lurkers. This is because of the effect that Mafia can easily hide among them if there are enough and become more or less undetectable. This is a hundred times worse because they hide in plain sight while freely using their nukes and everyone is like "oh naww, that's too dumb to be Mafia." Even if you two are possibly Town you're hurting Town with your behavior. I asked you to stop nuking but clearly you're both still acting in self interest because you think you're being lynched. And acting in self interest is not pro Town behavior. | ||
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On July 10 2011 00:34 sandroba wrote: And I'm not focusing on clearing myself quite the contrary. I've done 2 thourough analysis so far and have adapted to new information, while you have done nothing but midlessly tunnel me. Also point me to your analysis where you identify me pushing mafia objectives or behaving in such way that proves I'm scum. Agressive and reckless =/= scum my friend and since you were able to point out citi.zen was mafia in CCM you have no excuse for thinking that. Lynching me and YM will provide nothing besides waste towns time. You are pushing scum objectives, good job to you if you are scum. You're creating a terrible Town atmosphere where no one has to think or act rationally or carefully. That's as anti-Town as you can get without actively taking action against people. I don't need to convince you. You still won't answer my questions. So now it remains to be seen what everyone else thinks. | ||
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On July 10 2011 01:07 sandroba wrote: Do you not see the rational discussion we are having here? Also where is your nameclaim? rofl you're trying to ask me questions while not giving a shit about anything I ask you. So I'll give you the same response you've been giving me. I'm obvtown for other reasons. Stop tunneling me go focus on someone else. Start this nameclaim game and we're going to end up in the same situation as Closed Casket where someone gets confirmed Town when they shouldn't and Town loses lylo. Notice how I said confirming a Town who really isn't is pretty much equal to a loss on lylo? Closed Casket proves it. As I said my power also changes with faction deaths. Some are undeniably more useful than others. But I don't want to start fishing out names because I don't care about my power since trying to further that goal is just going to create more confusion. Someone else must have something similar too; if I could trust people to act unified as Town and ignore special power shifts/win cons I'd be on board. But we can't even trust people not to nuke like crazy animals. Oh wait I'm not giving you the same response you gave me. I actually answered your question with reasons. Care to do the same? GM's actions are loudly Town to me. Trying to save Mataza when he himself was in danger; he realizes that furthering Town's goals is more important than his own self interest. IMO Mafia would be more obsessed with self interest unless he knew Mataza was a scum with a more important power but that's out of the question since he flipped green. OpZ I have no clue. He's a lurker and now comes in guns blazing. I'm inclined to believe he's tunneling dec to provoke a response and I didn't really like dec's response. Then again they might just be tunnel fucking each other. Caller you said OriginalName made a minor mistake. Can you elaborate? On July 09 2011 23:22 Caller wrote: blues and greens are pretty much assigned at will. don't read too much into those. other than that my cohost has made no major mistakes. he will be soundly punished for the minor ones when i have time. i was not expecting to have this work taken home. should be cleared up by tonight, but i will likely still be able to account for the nukez and stuff. It's definitely odd that the day deaths were just names and a bit of flavor while everything about chaos's role was plastered into his death post. Is this intentional or a difference in posting strategy by the two hosts? | ||
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On July 10 2011 01:45 TheAwesomeAll wrote: drazerk if you go on with this i start doubting you are really captain planet. He's not Captain Planet. It's obviously another fakeclaim. The only serious claim he's made so far is Winceton Churchill. YM says that makes no sense. Why? | ||
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On July 10 2011 01:48 Drazerk wrote: Someone is lying about being British but I haven't seen churchill's name used other than me, Or else I would of instantly sniped him out Everyone Boreritish has had some play on their name with being boring. Why not yours? | ||
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I'm going to hit myself now for actually getting dragged into this nameclaim analysis nonsense even once. | ||
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On July 10 2011 01:58 syllogism wrote: "Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill", Sir Winceton Borenard Churchill would have been more believable. The only issue with his "fake claim" is that it's a pretty ballsy one. He's had two other fake nameclaims that were believed instantly. What is with your fascination with nameclaims? Do we really want to turn this game into flavor hunting and let the people who have scum actions go unpunished? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762 This should be required reading. Mafia won this game because a fake claim slipped through and became confirmed Town. sandroba was on this scum team that won because of a fake claim slipping through. sandroba now is fanatically pushing name claims. Hmm. | ||
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On July 10 2011 02:05 youngminii wrote: to be fair (speaking as the cohost of that game), it's not really comparable in CC it was the role that citizen claimed allowing him to slip through in this game we're going for names ..which isn't any better lol if i was scum i'd just ignore the whole name claiming thing So you agree with my point that name hunting isn't any better and is devastating for Town when even one goes wrong. Then say only Mafia would be ignoring name claims? wat | ||
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On July 10 2011 02:07 syllogism wrote: CCM isn't like this setup at all Ok so it was a roleclaim that allowed him to fly under the radar. Smart roleclaim. But it could still be seen through if you can analyze it correctly: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/KLbkqknwcuh Name claims you can't rely on anything except lucking into a player claiming someone else who is already in the game. In a game of luck and randomness, Mafia comes out on top because they have information and can influence decisions. On July 10 2011 02:18 sandroba wrote: Not necessarily someone is lying, and if someone is I would assume it to be TAA. Let's assume only one chinese as per syllo theory. That leaves 4 factions to distribute a lot of townies, not necessarilly evenly. Let's not jump to conclusions. Winston claim is pretty balsy, so he's prob town. JeeJee and Curu where is your claim? @curu I'll answer any questions you ask if you claim your name. You have needlessly outted that you have a power role, but you refuse to share your name? Why is that? From what you claimed so far your name should have no barring on your power. I have not outed that I am a power role. I said some of my powers are undeniably more useful than others. Mafia can believe I have a useful one or useless one right now as they want to believe. WIFOM come at me Mafia. You outed yourself with nuke immunity without anyone asking you. Are you seriously this contradictory? I'm going to point out the biggest flaw in all of your nameclaim bullshit right now. You are all operating under the assumption that Mafia can mask flips. If Mafia also has a name/role DT then they find a world leader, kill him, move his flip to something else and have one of them claim the world leader. You all instantly believe he is 100% confirmed Town. We instantly lose on lylo. You're a smart guy sandroba, you helped come up with the fake roleclaim in CCM didn't you? Did I just puncture a hole in your new plan? | ||
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On July 10 2011 02:26 syllogism wrote: Jeejee and Curu should claim Convince me that nameclaims are the way to go and I'll give you mine. I'm giving analysis, I'm giving my thoughts, I'm giving scenarios where nameclaim is bad, all you guys are giving is "i'm not mafia. u name claim now." On July 10 2011 02:35 TheAwesomeAll wrote: 29-6= 23 23-2=21 21/4=5.25 atm we have YM getting counted as british, while he claimed a name that already existed. Also i can proof quite easily that im british, since im a veteran and i got that extra live i have 3 lives atm, and i can miss one np. nuke:TheAwesomeAll I bet Palmar is laughing his ass off right now. | ||
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On July 10 2011 02:38 sandroba wrote: Yes I did. How is this relevant again? What's your reason for not claiming your name again? Special win conditions, possible anti nameclaim mechanics, I just threw up a plan that Mafia could abuse (I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of), veiled interests. What's your reason for wanting everyone to nameclaim? Give me something concrete other than we might luck into someone claiming the same as someone else. It's relevant because I saw through your plan in CCM and given your agenda now I am trying to see through it in this game. You've done a brilliant job of directing the attention away from you and YM. Obviously either no one posting now has read through WaW1 Mafia or everyone missed that Caller pulled the exact same bullshit you are now and he won because of it. My reluctance to claim my name paints me as suspicious but the 10 million suspicious ACTIVE ACTIONS other people have taken don't paint them as suspicious? Actions > words people. OpZ came out and explained why he was lurking. Just like you explained why you had a scumslip that's been confirmed now (1 KP Mafia). I gave my thoughts on OpZ already. I will gladly martyr if that is the only way to get the Town back on the right track. I'm not going to survive a nuke. I do not have antinukes. Hit me with one and you can find my name and my role and you can confirm for yourself why I am so against nameclaims. Maybe then someone will listen to my analysis and get this Town back into the right atmosphere. | ||
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There are two ways you are getting my name. 1. A majority (that means significantly more than two) ask me for it. At least this shows me Town is willing to unify in a stance. 2. I am convinced that sandroba is scum and sandroba seems to be convinced that I am scum. If sandroba submits to being lynched today and it goes through and he flips green, I will give my name and submit to being lynched as well or night Vig'd. Since we are both convicted then a one-for-one trade seems fair enough to me. One scum for one Town. I am going out for a bit now. | ||
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On July 10 2011 03:39 youngminii wrote: what rubbish is this you say "if we kill sandroba and he flips green i'll claim" and then you go on to say "a one for one trade seems fair enough" "one scum for one town" i hope you get killed tomorrow or tonight I'm basically kamikaze-ing sandroba. Reading comprehension please. If he dies and flips green I die. One for one. Given that I'm convinced sandroba is red then I firmly believe there is one red one green among us. He isn't fully convinced I'm red though apparently so I doubt he'll agree to the plan if he is green. And he definitely won't if he is red. Ok actually going out now. | ||
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sandroba I'm easing up on you for now. You're still in my sights but not tunnel-worthy anymore. I proposed my kamikaze against you to see your reaction. You rejected it saying you don't think I am 100% scum. That's the only plausible Townie explanation for not going for a one-for-one trade and that bought you a bit of cred in my eyes. I also wanted to see YM's reaction and he blindly attacked me for it without reading what was actually in my post. In my eyes this affirmed a connection between you two along with the antinukes and everything. But now he's flipped Town so I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore. I guess he's just an emotional guy. He wanted to defend you because you were supportive of him and attack me because I was suspicious of him I guess. I also thought your missile was launched with the knowledge that he would survive so you could make it appear there was less connection between you two. But that's wrong too. WHY the hell are there two Borenards? And wtf is operation Marco Polo? Marco Polo is famous for his travels throughout Asia. GMarshal did something happen to you? Marco Polo doesn't sound like a death rewrite to me but maybe the names have nothing to do with the effects. Are there hidden drawbacks or something you aren't telling us about the campaigns? It's either sandroba has super duper nukes or the campaigns have hidden drawbacks. Or YM wasn't actually Boreritish and something is seriously fucking with the name flips. Let's see what happens to TAA. He claimed Boreritish right? If this extra life he supposedly got didn't actually come into effect or the campaign somehow has a hidden drawback (like extra night life but not nuke life) then you just put yourself in deep shit. | ||
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On July 10 2011 07:45 Drazerk wrote: Well actually my first role was all about fake role claiming but then Caller messed up and now I am stuck with a slightly more entertaining one. You are one convoluted man. | ||
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On July 10 2011 07:46 Drazerk wrote: I think Caller is trolling me on purpose just to see me die after day 1 I think Caller is trolling us all on purpose. Zombies, aliens, clones, wtf comes next? Justin Bieber shows up and nukes someone? | ||
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sandroba I forgive you for nuking against your policy. My trigger finger's itching itself now. | ||
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On July 10 2011 11:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Please don't fire, I don't want the conspirators to win... It's worldwide no radiation day. If this keeps up I'm going to hit a lurker. | ||
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Then again I haven't gotten any read on Wiggles. He's been completely under my radar. Up to you to decide if you think he is scum. He's been pretty lurkerish hasn't he? So maybe it might be better to let that missile just fall. | ||
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On July 10 2011 12:07 PaqMan wrote: They're duds. The missile that GGQ shot at me is unstoppable. So I have no chance of surviving it lololol. You can fire two missiles at once but they both happen to be duds? What kind of power is that. I don't believe this. You're just trying to make sure they both land aren't you? | ||
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On July 11 2011 11:11 Mig wrote: Hey Curu you really need to claim. You talked a lot about how if sandroba flipped green you would claim. Basically the only thing you have posted in a long time is how you are against name claiming and how suspicious YM/sandroba are. Well now that sandroba/YM are both green who do you think the last mafia are? Still reading through, just got to this post. I'm good for my word. I'm J. Brobert Oppenheimer. Yeah, every one of those little missiles flying in the air is my baby. Back to reading the rest of this thread. | ||
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I am Louis Mountborton of the Boretish Empire, one of the British claims is probably lying. 1. MountBORTon. Highly unlikely that this wouldn't be MountBOREton if it actually was legit. 2. Boreritish spelled wrong. More thoughts to come in a sec, this is a buttload of new info to take in. | ||
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Misder. Hasn't done anything useful. Comes out of hiding once to nuke someone (who turned out to be scum). Votes on operations without trying to lynch anyone. I think he's third party trying to avoid attention. kitaman: ANOTHER third party claim? And a fairly useless third party too. Complete suspicion of him ATM based on claim though. Judging from Palmar's role though I'd say useless third parties aren't much of a rarity. I mean you give Conspirator the win condition of having the WRL reached and then you give someone else the power to have nukes cause no radiation for two days? lol. Strikes me as best lynch ATM because no Townie would claim a third party role. Either he's scum or actually a third party so there's almost no chance he's Town. His power is also far too convenient. Two Moonspeaks die and suddenly he claims the ability to hit Moonspeak people? TAA: Why did you nuke heist? What in the world is your reason? Looks like he just jumped on the everyone is nuking I can too without being suspected bandwagon. You've also been fairly useless and unconvicted of trying to lynch anyone. Navillus: Again pure nameclaim suspicion. This: I am Louis Mountborton of the Boretish Empire, one of the British claims is probably lying. 1. MountBORTon. Highly unlikely that this wouldn't be MountBOREton if it actually was legit. 2. Boreritish spelled wrong. With this: On July 11 2011 12:31 Navillus wrote: I actually didn't notice this but I just copied and pasted my name/nationality from the role PM so perhaps I'm some splinter group fighting for Irish independence and just don't know it yet... And then this: On July 11 2011 13:09 Navillus wrote: Sigh. This is what I hear: "The only piece of evidence I have for you being mafia is that you misspelled a faction name, and it is common knowledge that mafia are worse spellers than townies Q.E.D. you are mafia. Misspelled claim, says he copy pasted and then says he misspelled his claim later. I really have to go to bed (grumpy gf) but I promise more thoughts in the morning. | ||
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On July 11 2011 16:15 Mig wrote: Curu misder is dead and he shot a scum lol. My bad. Well scratch that one then. Caller can you update OP with important posts please? I'm really in a rush ATM but I'll have all my complete thoughts in the morning. | ||
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On July 11 2011 16:20 Navillus wrote: Ok so 3 things 1. Why on earth would I go to the trouble to pick a name WITH THE WORD BORE IN IT and not spell it as such, sure if I just picked some random name the lack of bore might be suspicious but me finding possibly the one major British person in WWII with the word bore already there and then deciding not to add the e would be stupid, and don't just say "ok you're stupid" that's not an argument, also 2. The misspelling of boreritish is actually the dumbest reason to accuse someone that I have ever seen, my accusers have yet to explain why my being mafia would make it more likely for me to misspell it or make a typo, I'm done responding to this point unless someone brings up something with some semblance of logic behind it, also 3. I think it is pretty likely that at least one scum is accusing me, a few people accused me so it's safe, and it definitely helps them to have people wasting their time arguing for/against me being scum, also I really don't think that there's solid enough evidence against me to actually convince a whole lot of townies to go after me, also I said it's purely based on nameclaim. I also said many times I don't like pure nameclaim hunting for many reasons. I also said you are least suspicious on my list. Judging by the fakeclaims of the other scum though they put almost no effort into it (seriously all claiming third parties? If kita flips scum then add +1 to that). You are far too defensive at the slightest pointing of you for my liking to be Town but again this doesn't seem to mean much (case: sandroba) and I was wrong about that. The Town playstyle that I'm used to is completely different but this can be attributed to everyone essentially being blue (nukes lolz) or TL Mafia just being different. SERIOUSLY going to bed now. A few hours to sleep then I'll be back to post. | ||
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Kita has already eaten a nuke. He is FOR SURE dead if we lynch him. He might survive this nuke again and delay his flip even more. I am certain kita is scum now. Someone doesn't want him vote lynched. Do not assume he is dead from this nuke. This antimissile only makes sense in these contexts: Kita is lynch immune but can't survive nukes. This makes no sense. Lynch immunity really? REALLY? I have never seen this on scum in any game I have ever read or played. Kita is nuke immune but not lynch immune. I think this most likely. If we assume he's dead from this nuke and redirect our votes and then day ends when the nuke lands on him (and he survives) that ends day and Kita goes unlynched. So why waste an antimissile on Kita? Several scenarios I can envision: -Put heat on Kita. Makes no sense since he was going to die to lynch anyways. -Bait another nuke at Kita. I'm leaning towards this one. Why waste something as valuable as an antinuke? Perhaps the majority of scum remaining are nuke immune. Three have been hit and killed by nukes already. If there really is a zombie faction within the scum then it's very likely the rest of them are nuke immune. Which brings me back to WHY ARE WE NUKING KITA WHEN WE LYNCH HIM AND HE'S STONE COLD DEAD. So why should scum bait another nuke at Kita? 1. Waste a townie's nuke OR help someone gain town cred. 2. IT ALLOWS KITA TO RETALIATE NUKE. This is what I firmly believe. Kita is essentially dead. If he survives this nuke he dies to lynch. They are trying to maximize his value. He gets to fire another missile before he dies. Navillus is confirmed Town now IMO. I guarantee you Kita is going to fire back at him. If someone else nukes Kita then he gets to retaliate yet again. Mig if you are sure Kita is scum why are we not lynching him with fire? Why are we throwing more nukes at him when he is very probably nuke immune? Why give him the chance to retaliate? I understand the antimissile point but so many of you are nuke immune/can eat multiple nukes that the lynch is the only method I fully trust now. That anti is very likely not worth much to scum and just used to cause even more confusion/diversion. I said this on day 1. WE HAVE THE LYNCH. LET'S NOT GET SO FOCUSED ON MISSILES WE FORGET THAT. The lynch is FINAL. NUKES can be affected by abilities. If Kita nukes back and Nav flips green you just went from almost certainly Town to blaring alarm in my eyes Mig since you were the one pushing for him to get nuked. You're also now asking people to nuke TAA. DO YOU REALLY WANT HIM TO BE ABLE TO RETALIATE? Look at him he's trying to fucking bait a nuke already after being so ready to nuke himself earlier. How convenient that you want other people to nuke him but you can't be the one to fire it. Kita and TAA are prime lynch candidates right now, WHY ARE WE TRYING TO NUKE THEM AND ALLOW THEM TO RETALIATE? They are dead in the water. TAA raises really good points about GM. Don't clear GM based on his nameclaim/"actions." HE DID NOT SAVE MATAZA. He claimed to have saved Mataza but no antimissile was actually fired. On July 12 2011 00:02 GMarshal wrote: Thats it. Doomsday time. ##Activate: Fall Blau See you all in hell. Fall Blau is GERMAN. If you are really Town why the fuck are you trying to make people think you're scum? If you were scum that is such an obvious godamn slip. IF YOU ARE TOWN STOP PULLING THIS LYING SHIT, YOU ARE NOT HELPING. I'm convinced there's one red between TAA and GM. If Kita retaliates and Nav flips green, I'm inclined to believe it's TAA and Mig is his buddy. | ||
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On July 12 2011 06:24 Mig wrote: Right I do think he is scum. I have posted my analysis of why he is scum multiple times. And yes he could be nuke immune but if he was immune do you think he would be arguing so strongly against having a townie nuke him? And seriously how likely is it for a scum to just have 3 lives? He claimed 3 lives before because he was british + vet. So would him having 3 lives prove he is innocent? No. But it would make him look better. I am trying to give us the maximum amount of information possible to make the correct decision on who we should lynch. I mean come on now people. And yes clearly if kita survives this next nuke we lynch him. Nuking Kita allows him to fire another nuke of his own. Nuking him if you are sure he is scum when there's even a chance he might survive is just letting him take another Townie down with him. Instead of dying quietly to the lynch he now has caused another Townie nuke wasted AND he gets to nuke that Townie back. | ||
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Kita is 100% scum. No doubt in my mind. I'm leaning towards Mig being scum but I'm not completely sold. I might be completely wrong in my analysis. I lean a lot more heavily if Nav is retaliated against and flips green. One of TAA and GM is scum. If Nav flips green and Mig is red then it's 100% TAA. If not GM's actions have been a lot more scummy. Complain about stupid townies then lie 5 million times while letting slip a German operation? Coag says he can confirm himself in the day post. I'm inclined to believe him unless this is false. Drazerk I'm leaning Town but your constant nameclaim confusion doesn't help Town either. Once I can understand in showing the perils of nameclaim reliance but three times? I'm still leaning towards Town though. Nav I'm sure is Town. I also think he's dead now. I just realized how far under my radar dec and prplhz are. Will analyze them soon. | ||
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On July 12 2011 06:36 Mig wrote: Curu the retaliation nuke is actually a great point I hadn't considered. But there were what only 3/4 people who hadn't fired nukes yet do you think they would spend an anti nuke just in the hopes one of the last couple people fired at kita again? Basically I had it in my head that Kita/TAA are both scum. They know that if kita dies to the nuke then TAA will be lynched next and they lose 2 players today. And like GM said kita may have a powerful role they need during the night. They could have used the anti nukes to save wiggles or jeejee or kurumi but didn't. There must be some reason they saved Kita. And really curu you are suspicious of me? Really so I suppose today while 0 mafia were dead I just got it in my head to bus the entire mafia team is that right? And not to mention how on day 1 I saved YM (town) and killed Palmar (conspirator). I really shouldn't have to argue my innocence at this point. YM died anyways. Killing Palmar with a nuke allowed sandroba to get lynched (which I really wanted to happen, btw, but he flipped green) since Palmar was the leading lynch candidate until he died. I don't like this being the only thing that shows your innocence. GM and TAA both seem to exhibit some sort of nuke resistance. GM has survived one and so has TAA. So has Kita. I'm inclined to believe much of the remaining scum team has nuke resistance especially since three have already died that didn't. If I am right then that antimissile was worthless anyways. | ||
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On July 12 2011 06:41 Mig wrote: I guess even tho nobody at all besides me was accusing kita or kurumi. I just decided it would be a good idea to bus the entire team. I mean I fucking shot kurumi, redirected the nuke into kita and called out wiggles as being my third most suspicious person. And I am by far the most active person in analyzing and discussing ideas. And you really still think I am scum. Amazing. I said I'm leaning towards scum. You have done quite a bit for Town but like I have been saying letting one scum slip into confirmed Town status at lylo is loss. I am not confirming you that easily. I won't tunnel in my own analysis (it's been wrong once re sandroba) but if Nav flips green what I proposed makes a lot more sense to me. | ||
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I am so confused. | ||
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Caller u trolling? | ||
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tbh this game just seemed like flinging shit at each other and waiting to see who Caller decided he wanted to win. It's going to be something random like "lol I lied Drazerk your anti radiation nukes actually doubled the radiation of each nuke." | ||
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http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bastard_Mod Which is what I think this was. | ||
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Still I'll wait for the end post I guess. Next time it's such an abnormal setup I think I'll just fling shit around though, Mataza had the right of it. It's just frustrating seeing all the planning and thinking going to waste to a guy who did nothing, and that the only way it happened was a skewed mechanic or bastard mod (I'm not actually calling you a bastard Caller, it's just a term ^_^). | ||
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So we had four factions in the Mafia then. Normal Mafia, dec who won by killing TAA and winning, and TAA who won with Conspirator. I'm sure Wiggles had an alternate win condition too but he died before I could figure out what it was. My role was a Framer. I could influence the night post and change flips for one night. This was my creation: Hail to you Earthlings from deep outer space, We’ve come here now to watch this place. Interested we are to see your fate, So for now no action, we’ll sit and wait. But before we depart, here’s what we saw, An intricate development that’ll drop the jaw. Nuke all you want until the whole world glows, And you’ll miss those zombies sitting under your nose. They have no heartbeat, the walking dead, They won’t be satisfied till they’re thoroughly fed. You squabble amongst yourselves as we laugh with mirth, Because human beings are not the only faction on Earth. This was to just throw as much confusion into Town as possible. Caller suggested the zombies to me and lol there were zombies. And this was my second night creation: Averted a coming crisis with that timely rotting death, Never trust those who never draw breath. One world leader dies and now only two remain, Locked together in death, one’s efforts will be in vain. Tides are shifting and alignments draw out, Of one thing in particular we have little doubt. Try as you may, dispel your utterly foolish notion, For it is most definitely impossible to lynch an entire ocean. Studying each one, we’ve had some great joy, Rubbish speak and trolls and an odd little boy. We’ve watched your people, some certainly bore, They’ve even taught us the meaning of “snore.” We applaud you Earthlings, it has been most fun, Missiles and killing, destruction a-ton. One more small tidbit we’d like to pose, The threshold of your planet, one of you knows. This was created before all the shit went down. Basically to confirm Kitaman as the Ocean (he wasn't), to get Navillus lynched/nuked for his misspelling, and to enforce my own fakeclaim. I breadcrumbed my fakeclaim (J. Brobert Oppenheimer, father of the atomic bomb) with my very first post: Considering that radiation levels increase on any sort of activity (hitting someone with multiple lives, dud missiles counting) then I think it's somewhat safe to assume that the nuclear cap is somewhat high. Last World at War had 34 nukes spread among 22 countries with 9 as the max radiation level. This game, assuming an average of 1.5 nukes per person (29 people), then we have about 43 nukes total. So I’m going to preemptively place the radiation level at around 12. Just my analysis based purely on the previous game. Take from it what you will. And with the night post would have said yep, I know the WRL (purely made up arbitrary number). Here are our role powers: Dec: You are in charge of the Wheatmarket. You have the power of blitzkrieg! You may double all actions that a player takes (besides yourself). Double role checks, double vigilante hits, double nuclear weapons, whatever. You may use this power only once per day/night cycle. Kurumi: In the tradition of most Japanese things involving cards you may summon monsters with them. These monsters may give you anything from role and name checks to an extra night life to an anti-missile card/medic protection to a single night hit. You may only pick one power per day and must use all four abilities before you can use them all again. Curu: You are the Tree Reich's Dharma Gobbels! You are the Cropaganda minister. You may frame anything you want about a player once per night, be it country, name, alignment, role, whatever! You may also deliver a speech for night phase which you PM to me during the day and I post with the night post. TAA: You are the leader of the Tree Reich. Aptly, you are also not only the head of the Axis (godfather, appears as you want to role and alignment checks) but also may once choose to end day at your choosing (namely, you will set the remaining time for day to 3 hours). You also have the power to once cancel an Allied campaign. You also have two anti-nuclear weapons. Kita: I have three nukes and a two time use activated protection role that will save me from kills for a cycle. I'm not sure if it will save me from lynches too, but if so I'll scum up the thread to distract everyone from the rest of you. My secondary ability is that when I die, all remaining Japanese players must immediately Admiral Ackbar a target by the end of the day/night phase in which you are killed, killing the target and anyone that used a role action on them during that cycle and bypassing medic protection. I guess it depends on how big a part of the axis my faction takes up to see how active I'll play. I still have to read the thread, so I'll probably post again in a bit. Here are my thoughts on the setup so far: prplhz: You are in charge of the ESES, the Environmental Services Endogenous Security. You welcome people of all colors like the Rainbow you are. You may check anyone of your choice to figure out what their identity and role is, and where they are from, once per night. That person is also jailed, meaning they will be roleblocked and immune to other night actions. Wiggles: Basically he can choose one person at night and that person is immune to all night actions, day actions, and nukes for one cycle. We should have easily won if we were all online. TAA shoots down the nuke at Wiggles, Kurumi throws his extra life onto himself. Unfortunately it was like 5 AM in Europe when their nukes landed so TAA and Kurumi weren't on in time. So I made a new plan: Alright guys. Here is who is left currently: Gmarshal – ONE LIFE LEFT Ciryandor – American, SHOULD die to kita’s nuke. Chance he survives because he’s Roosevelt. Coagulation – British, FUCKTON OF LIVES AND/OR NUKE IMMUNE Mig – can redirect nukes, I DON’T THINK HE’S BRITISH. SO MANY BRITISH ALREADY Drazerk – British, FUCKTON OF LIVES Gtr – what the fuck is he Nav – British, FUCKTON OF LIVES 7 of them alive. Kita survives his lynch and we night hit Mig. I'm going to assume Ciryandor will survive his nuke because he hasn't claimed any powers. This is worst possible scenario (besides if Mig survives, which will be bullshit because ANOTHER vet?). So 6 alive to 5 of us. Not bad but TAA is 100% getting lynched next day. That'll leave us 6 to 4 possibly going into the next night. Maybe TAA nukes someone as he dies, 5 to 4 (best case). Problem is like 4 of them have confirmed each other so me/Dec/GM/prplhz are the next on the list. None of us can survive nukes. We will probably lose. THIS IS WHAT I PROPOSE. BLITZKRIEG. TAA you cancel the extra life British campaign. Let's make sure none of these fuckers stay vets. THEN AGAIN, I don't think their vet status includes nukes. YM and Misder both died to 1 nuke and they were British. TAA shortens the day. I HOPE THIS MEANS NUKES WONT PROLONG DAY or this seems like a useless ability. We BLITZ lynch someone. Preferably Coag since he claims nuke immunity. We also nuke the fuck out of every remaining Townie (we have enough nukes, especially with dec's doubling power). This means we fire 6 nukes. Game goes to night. We hit Roosevelt in case he has a crapload of antinukes. If we haven't won by the next day then kita has one of his lives left (JeeJee used his Jack power to put the life on kita so he shouldn't have to use both of his to survive today. PLZ CONFIRM CALLER) and TAA has 1 antinuke left. We nuke the fuck out of every townie again (again, 6 nukes) and have kita use his life and TAA shoot down one of theirs. WE MAKE SURE WE NUKE FIRST SO THEY CANT FIRE OFF TWO EACH DUE TO RETALIATION STRIKES. What I need from you guys is a count of how many nukes you have left so dec knows who to double. If anyone has 3 nukes we double him on first day so he can nuke again second day. kita you need to scum the fuck out of this thread today. TAA MUST NOT BE LYNCHED. I had to attack Mig because he basically figured out 5 scum and was reaching confirmed Town status. How I came up with my plan: Kitaman can activate two extra lives that will save him from anything. He can only activate one each day though. This includes lynch. Kurumi was a Jack who could throw an extra life onto someone. So Kurumi threw the life onto Kita (survived Mig's redirection nuke), TAA shot down the second nuke heading at Kita. Dec doubles Kita's power so he activates one life to survive Navillus's nuke and has one left to survive the lynch. I had to shoot down Mig and make sure Kita did not get nuked one more time. So I came up with my big retaliation speech. It seemed to work since Mig said "damn I regret asking people to nuke Kita now." And Drazerk seemed to be on board with me too and suspect Mig. Navillus would obviously be on board with me but he was dead anyways. Coagulation seemed to suspect Mig a bit too now. I also used him asking TAA to be nuked against him since I knew TAA would flip scum when he died next day and would survive all nukes this day. THEN ANOTHER THING CAME UP IN THE IRC. Dec could only win if we killed TAA too. He also had a new operation: he gains 1 KP that night and an extra life and 2 nukes if TAA dies. So I convinced TAA that he was going to be dead next anyways and to bus him. Me and Kita had to make sure Dec did not shoot TAA with that night KP so we convinced him to simply nuke TAA the next day in an attempt to gain town cred. Dec's fakeclaim was amazing for this (all credit to Dec) as his scummy actions could be explained by the traitor part while he also appears Town by killing TAA. All of this was just the work we put into DAY 2 ONLY. So you see why I am pissed off that PALMAR won? I focused more on planning the mechanics and actions of what we should do rather than clearing myself. For some reason no one really suspected me as scum when I was pretending to be some super smart soldier but all my analysis flipped green people. | ||
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On July 13 2011 00:18 syllogism wrote: I think Mr. Wiggles was the only player on mafia team who played well. Curu was good but gave himself away by obviously being insightful/smart and yet tunnelling very obvious townies and being all over the place with his anti role claims stance. Once people started flipping it became obvious he wasn't just some townie with a delicate win con. Prplhz pushed his completely braindead newbie gimmick too far. Unfortunately the few townies who were actually playing seriously had to spend too much time fighting against other townies just to stop stupid lynches/nukes to actually pin the mafia down. Mig was awesome except for that kitaman nuke slip up lol I failed in my play but not the way you think I did. I was trying to scum up as much as possible without actually revealing myself as scum (I die to a single nuke and wouldn't want to waste one of our only two anitnukes on me so I wanted to be lynched) once anyone else got suspected because my power was by far the most useless out of the whole Mafia team. Unfortunately it didn't work and no one pointed at me solidly and as a result Kurumi, Wiggles, and JeeJee all died before me. | ||
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On July 13 2011 00:40 Mig wrote: Yea haha. I couldn't believe I had to argue for 10 pages about how fake kita's was. And heist wanted to let him live so he could confirm it even tho we already knew you guys were fucking with the day posts. Curu your fake claim was good. When you first said oppenheimer I was like huh the only non military leader in the game? But then its like eh invented nukes whatever could be in there and just sort of dismissed it. All credit for my claim goes to TAA (I think?). I wasn't the one that came up with Oppenheimer, one of my Mafia buddies did. | ||
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But I think I played too seriously this game. Should have just nuked errywhere and gone with the flow. Fun game overall. | ||
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Drazerk was into it too but unfortunately (not saying it's your fault) all the fakeclaims and shifting roles and whatever stopped you from doing anything useful. GMarshall if that's your normal Town play I would lynch you every game as Town in a heartbeat. You really did nothing except try to confirm yourself as scum. But I think he just stopped trying too . | ||
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I'm assuming: Dec won with Mafia and by killing TAA TAA won with Conspirator? I think Wiggles had one too, what was it? | ||
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On July 13 2011 01:24 Ciryandor wrote: And yes, I had another life as Hairy Broman. That's it? We thought you would have like 8 nukes and 5 antinukes and a nightkill ability and 5 lives lol. Since you were the leader of America and all. Overall I thought YM had the best ability. A 2 KP Vig when Mafia only had 1 KP, he wasted them both antinuking sandroba though. Mig's was strong too. Everyone else's seemed more or less useless or they didn't get to use them. | ||
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It sounds great but I don't really want to commit to a PM game. It makes some players extremely pivotal to the game (and have to work 10x harder) while marginalizing others, depending on how the PM clique turns out. It also encourages more of a lurker environment IMO. That and I have almost no experience playing them. I regret missing the Merc mini game, that one sounds fun. EDIT: Oh nevermind that's a PM game too. Oh and I also thought someone would connect me and JeeJee. I spotted the citizen fakeclaim in Closed Casket and told it to JeeJee over the Mafia IRC since he was convinced Palmar was the scum. I was worried with me posting my e-peen post in that thread and it coinciding with JeeJee's argument and revelation in the thread it would become apparent we were in contact lol. | ||
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On July 13 2011 01:50 syllogism wrote: I thought it highly likely that if one of you flipped red, so would the other (remember, I asked both of you to name claim in a single post). You shouldn't have defended Jeejee like that when I pointed out how good his town play was in CCM and how bad it had been so far in WaW Yeah but I spawned his effort. He was locked in on Palmar as scum and was just going to trust citizen to decide the game. He put together everything else afterwards (citizen being Mafia doc, etc) but I pointed out to him that citizen was Mafia. It was like a...reverse metagame because I knew his scumhunting effort was because of me so he shouldn't have been drawing suspicion in this game due to lack of scumhunting effort. Got torn over having to boost my e-peen and protecting my interest in this game, e-peen won. | ||
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On July 13 2011 02:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: I had a very honest reason, but yea, I understand. not to mention I wanted to live until day 3/4 cuz of Maginot Line, so i didn't want to get randomly nuked. Did you even read my analysis of decunduo? My trap for him? Where I COMPLETELY proved he was actively lurking vs just not being around? How about the lynch train that was running over me when I wasn't around? I wasn't there defending myself or nothing, but Decunduo seen a weak FoS on him and jumped to accuse someone who was guilty of the same shit, then got smacked in the face with an extremely better post that I was waiting to post. =/ Did seriously NO ONE but me realize that? I saw it but I didn't want to bus him haha. Notice I said I didn't like dec's response, I was sort of soft bussing him so I could claim that as cred later on if he did get lynched while not actually pointing out his response to anyone. | ||
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I also want to say that the general level of TL Mafia is a lot less refined than actual Mafia forum gameplay (as it should be, people come on TL to talk about SC2 while people go to actual Mafia forums to play Mafia). More advanced techniques like tunnel hunting/chainsaw, random voting to draw out responses, judging people based on if they are too self-interested rather than willing to be sacrificed to gain information, etc are not going to be recognized by most of the players so drawing a case around that is going to go unnoticed most of the time. | ||
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There are obviously very good players on TL (Mig nailed like the entire Mafia team in this game). Actually I sounded pretty condescending, I'll retract my statement. I've only read WaW1, some of CCM, and WaW2 so I can't comment on the level of TL games. I think Caller's setup brought out the worst in people anyways so this probably wasn't an accurate representation. | ||
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So our roles and countries weren't told to each other. Is this intended? That coupled with the "beware of internal disputes" makes me think some of you have victory conditions that aren't completely aligned with just killing the Town. My best bet is that one of you is the Conspirator or that you need the Godfather to be lynched too to win so you can "take over" as the Axis leader. We might even have a Mafia within the Mafia. Still with nothing more solid to go on perhaps we should focus on killing all Town first before turning our investigations internal. Which I made, that's why Kita kept asking you. And turns out both my suspicions were right it seems, TAA won with Conspirator and dec needed to kill TAA (the Godfather) lol. | ||
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On July 13 2011 04:17 TheAwesomeAll wrote: I thought Curu was the guy who wanted to kill me, but it turned out to be deco. I dont think there is anyone else that has alt win cons. It was because dec told me, Kita, and prpl about his win condition. He has a special operation that gives him a KP at night but revealed him as a traitor if he didn't shoot you with it. We needed to make sure he didn't shoot you and used it on a Townie instead because we needed your power that day. So we had to come up with a plan to have you dead so we could pacify him lol. He also got an extra life and 2 extra nukes if he died so you being killed could have benefited us. I had to make sure you didn't have the win condition of staying alive or we would've been fucked. sandroba you were confirming Towns and FoSing Mafia and one of the only Townies doing analysis. I needed to get you dead somehow ^_^. Coag apparently Caller purposely worded Drazerk's PM in a devious way so that people would think there was no radiation while there actually was. Yeah I was pretty miffed about it too. Even without radiation I think you guys had already lost because of our extra KP and Navillus getting nailed by the retaliation nuke from Kita. We also would've blitz lynched one of you because TAA had an ability that made night only last 3 hours. I don't think Mafia team won, I think TAA and Palmar won. | ||
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On July 13 2011 04:52 Coagulation wrote: Curu your the only one that wasnt a clear scum read at the end to me.. I Would of lynched the shit out of decon and KITA both Scum did a really really bad job laying low. Mig was all over the scum team the entire game. IF townies HADNT FIRED THERE NUKES AT START KILLING EACH OTHER LIKE I SAID NOT TO DO OVER 12356347 TIMES THIS GAME. Yeah, I know we were all more or less discovered which is why I had my Blitzkrieg plan. Basically we were going to ninja lynch one of you then nuke the rest. It would have been like 4 to 5 (5 being Mafia) anyways after that night because Mig and Nav both were already nuked. We had the majority. Then we have 2 KP too that night so we had won either way. It's just that the world blew up so Conspirator won instead. Town blew each other up way too much. YM wasted his double night kill saving sandroba from nukes - sandroba happened to be nuke immune anyways. | ||
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Although the day when chaos flipped as your name had me ROFLMAOing the most. That was my idea to nail you in the butt btw, come at me bro . | ||
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