On my phone, laughing to myself at the airport at the memories of waw1. What I could not believe was how gullible the town was, eating up all these complicated role stories you guys were cooking up every single day.

The funny thing is JeeJee himself brings that up just as he once more tries to make the whole conversation revolve around " what could be" if we make... "creative" role assumptions. Go read waw1 - you will see exactly what I mean.

My read is simple: JeeJee came in trying to throw Palmar under the buss. Read the previous page: he directly asks me/amber if we would consider a case against Palmar. I post I will be traveling. He instantly does a 180 turn and decides to go after me instead. Then the story telling begins.

Nice try, but no cigar. You lose regardless of who you kill tonight.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 00:22 GMT

#1100

Ok... You decided Palmar is more likely to play the "if pigs could fly then what would we know about gravity?" game. Good luck.

##Vote: JeeJee

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 02:01 GMT

#1106

It's actually quite simple: he either believes in fairy tales or not.

When you start your so called argument with "assume you know I'm green" you can of course conclude everyone else is red.

Whatever, I'm going out.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 02:14 GMT

#1109

What you argued is that my claim doesn't make sense assuming your did not lie. Keep pretending that you "proved" something - the stage is yours and the drinks mine!

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 06:12 GMT

#1155

This game was far from perfect, but that makes it a good learning game since it highlights many common mistakes. The thread is fairly short and the major lessons come through loud and clear:

1. Rely on strong fundamentals, don't try to be a hero. Look at Fishball's play as town if you want a very good example of someone who thinks critically, calls nonsense when he sees it, and takes charge when activity is lagging. If other townies followed his lead and played a similar solid style instead of trying to set clever "traps" for each other, we'd be looking at a different outcome.

2. In 9 out of 10 cases, lying as town is a very bad idea. Even if you are an otherwise strong player, you should generally not do it. Town was at a huge advantage right after Fishball claimed DT - I thought the game was over and done. Then, out of the blue BOTH Caller and BC made up really fancy lies and gave the reds a slim chance to get back in it.

3. Play to your audience. I am sure in the past few days it became clear to many spectators I was red. I didn't care - I wasn't trying to fool them. I could have argued with JeeJee about the specifics of his argument and suggested he must in fact be the "missing" scum doctor based on voting records and the fact that his claimed role was never actually proven. Instead, I chose to bypass that entire argument and simply reinforce the remaining player's existing suspicions - because I knew they were there.

4. Don't give up! JeeJee did a terrific job piecing the entire puzzle together and argued it very well down to the very end. Conversely, as a red, don't "freeze" when you can't come up with an explanation of events that makes sense to you. Start with the conclusion that you are innocent, then change any assumption you need to. A real innocent like JeeJee will say: if the world you see does not make sense with my as an innocent, you are simply looking at it wrong; come see it from my angle.

5. Chez scares me more than anyone else when I am red and he is town. From the moment I joined it was my number one goal to get rid of him one way or another. His day 1 list of suspects is clear evidence he maphacks. He also immediately thought of questioning my role claim, or at least very clearly state that a role =/= alignment.

Special credit goes to sandroba, because much of his activity was invisible to others. The role claim that ultimately won the game was his merit as much as mine, we discussed it on skype at length. He was also very quick to recognize when he had no way back into the game and took the initiative to pm me to buss him, instead of pouting and/or asking me to go down with him. I put down the very first vote on him and that went a long way to buying me credibility once he flipped red. That is what team play is about.

Also, thanks Ace for hosting. It's always a pleasure.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 06:26 GMT

#1158

Oh yeah, I even said as few times I thought you were GF. I wanted you either shot by LSB or lynched, so I tried to discredit you as much as I could. And I did notice the serious detective bread crumb - that unsettled me a bit :-)

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 06:44 GMT

#1164

On July 09 2011 15:36 Chezinu wrote:
I did have a major advantage this game:

I didn't get my role PM until 13:24

So I knew the following had red/blue roles (GGQ got his role before me but was after me on the player list):

GGQ
GM
Fishball

That's why I knew GM was mafia when ask earlier in the thread. Initially, I thought Fishball was vigi and I quoted him at one point and sent him a hidden message to shoot GM. You had to click the smiley face. That's why I was inclined to believe Caller was telling the truth and helped me somewhat believe Fishball's role claim. I was really surprised Fishball lived past night 2. If I was mafia, I totally would have killed him after GGQ since he confirmed so early.

ROLF - do you have that post?

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 07:00 GMT

#1175

On July 09 2011 15:48 Chezinu wrote:

Show nested quote +

here:

Show nested quote +

That's so awesome. And, sadly, part of the reason people don't trust you: most of us can't keep up! I am curious if FB even got that message.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 07:15 GMT

#1180

On July 09 2011 16:13 sandroba wrote:
Also let me reminf you guys that YM claimed Bernard, so all theories regarding Scum being fed fake claims have gone to hell. I claimed Lenin, so as long as no one counter claims me you have no reason to doubt it.

Wrong thread.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 15:38 GMT

#1225

There's no way this set-up was mafia favored in my opinion.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 19:16 GMT

#1230

It's never as easy as "lynching all claims that seem too good". Instead of trying to find magic pills, focus on general critical thinking and solid behavioral analysis - the mafia "fundamentals".

citi.zen

2509 Posts

July 09 2011 20:47 GMT

#1232

Now that you bring it up, Jackal did a wonderful job at selling that fake soft claim. Almost won the town the game, since it meant LSB lived and got to check Chez, finding him innocent. Had top push the GF story pretty hard from that point on...