but I only played one game total of werewolf once and have no experience so I wouldnt mind if somebody else gets the spot
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but I only played one game total of werewolf once and have no experience so I wouldnt mind if somebody else gets the spot
This is my first game of mafia (played werewolf once before) and I don't have enough experience to know whether the vet claiming or defaulting to lynching the least active player D1 are good policies, I won't comment on that. I think the best I can do is trying to identify the players I think act the scummiest or towniest.
So far the one that caught my attention is sinani206. He started out with a list of inactives 8 posts into the day and I was especially perplexed by this comment
Varpulis, why did you change your mind so quickly after Hesmyrr posted?
where to me it seemed varpulis was just trying to clarify to sinani himself what the lurker discussion was about. He had no change of mind at all and this struck me as an unnecessarily aggressive remark that can lead to no helpful discussion. I know that this is no proof, hardly everything is in this game, but I was taught that it's always a good idea to lynch someone who acts scummy, even when a mafioso would be less obvious, because a townie who plays like that hurts the town anyway. The rests of his contributions where updates on who posted less. So far I'm inclined to vote for sinani.
My thoughts on other players:
FoS on youngminii. All he's done this game is claim noob, joke around, and then this bout of activity when I pointed out that he was lurking. His recent activity hasn't been useful either, he's trying to defend Mataza and then arguing with whoever is around about Palmar's plan, which is a bad plan. I don't see how this will get us anywhere and seems like he is just posting for the sake of posting.
when he wrote this youngmiini had not claimed noob, and contributed more than prp did, although both about the somewhat fruitless vet claiming discussion. Prplhz made an easy list of "inactive players" and youngmiini happened to be the first to talk a bit after that, with prplhz immediately jumping on him and using this as the argument for his guilt, which is an incredibly weak argument if you ask me. I lean scum on him.
Varpulis - I think he is town. He seems suspicious of everyone yet reluctant to condemn anyone, which is the only sensible approach town can have on d1 imo. His accusational posts also have a towny feeling to them, saying things like "please be more helpful" instead of "you are scum".
Palmar - he spent the day coming up with the claim idea, calling everyone scum, then tossing his own idea as a terrible one and just a "conversation starter". Until he actually made some meaningful contributions in his lasts two posts. I think the way he acted for most of the day was so anti-town that he would deserve to be lynched just for that, but as I am writing this he might be the only one who actually posted his thoughts and arguments on players which is the only thing we really need right now. He might have done so just in response to pressure, but I will hold my judgement on him, I think he would be a bad d1 lynch because he's one of the few who actually wrote useful posts.
jeejee - he told unichan he should try to pick people who he thinks are scum and explain why. This is solid advice, so much so that I would like to hear jeejee do it himself.
youngmiini - I have no idea where he stands, not because of lack of contributions but rather because I can't lean him on one side yet.
unichan - in my first and only werewolf game i was randed wolf and I acted like he is doing now, hiding behind inexperience and expressing timid remarks about how something can be vaguely towny or scummy in dire fear of doing a wrong step. However i don't know how a newbie town would act and in my first game everyone actually thought my attitude was very villagery and I won by being the last wolf standing :\ I think we need to see what he has to say when he gains confidence.
Mataza - all he has done is talking about metagame and game mechanics, sneaking in a bandwagon vote in the very last post. I lean scum on him.
Kavdragon, stefftastiq and Originalname made no meaningful contribution in my opinion. I need to hear more from them.
While I was writing this it seems that sinani has become the bandwagon; I think he's a good one but I would also like to hear from the other suspects / inactives, so
p.s. is there a handy way to make multiquote posts like this with links to the various quoted posts, or do I have to copypaste each link manually?
Youngmiini put up a light defense for sinani when he came out as the clear bandwagon. He could have done this both as scum or town. The claim though changed things; the mafia could choose between pushing for a very easy blue lynch from the get-go or risking to have him survive and potentially having a confirmed and hard to kill citizen on the loose. The opportunity in my opinion is too great to risk it by having every scum to vote for someone else.
If Youngmiini is scum, he could concievably have decided to step up the defense, for the sake of coherence and using it to clear his name afterwards, but the other 2 votes would probably be locked on sinani. This would clear palmar and jeejee.
If Youngmiini is town, scum could swing votes more freely; but I find it unlikely that the only ones to decide to switch would be scum. This to me means at least one between palmar and jeejee is town, and this in turn makes both of them less likely to be scum.
My conclusion is that palmar and jeejee are >rand town. I have no clear idea what the best detective/doctor strategy is but I'd guess this makes them good doctor targets and bad detective peeks. I personally would like to have youngmiini peeked because I think he plays a pivotal role now and I really can't make up my mind on him.
This is all I can get from this lynch. As for "hunches", Varpulis is the only one who clearly transmits town vibes to me right now, in the way he acts in general and in particular how he reacted to the claim. Kavdragon is also being very helpful as a sort of town strategy guru but I'll wait until he puts his preaching into practice.
You need to focus your pressure because you are too much all over the place for it to have an impact right now, and it makes reading you really hard. Instead of jumping from inactive to inactive, pick one and go for it.
Get internets. As you probably know, right now you're a great asset for town but it bugs me that it's a bit hard to get a read on you because of your posting pattern.
Stop being paranoid and arguing with meta. Read the game, find a scum, make him break.
unichan, dementrio, stefftastiq
You really need to do something too. Three lurkers/inactives are just too much. I think unichan and stefftastiq are trying but dementrio seems weirdly absent. He had a single post with some decent content but your level of activity is just not high enough. unichan and stefftastiq both need to put more effort into their posts.
I read you scum. You carefully avoided everyone who is under the shitstorm right now and picked every target you could criticize without actually giving a read. We know the lynch has not solved this game yet, you could try to tell us however little you could make of it before pointing out who else has not talked yet.
On June 07 2011 11:16 youngminii wrote:
Right now we know that Sinani was town. In fact, the fact that he was a vet made him an extremely important target for the mafia to snipe during the day. As such, it leads me to believe that at least 2-3 people that had originally (before moving over to ON) voted for Sinani were indeed scum. As more and more townies jumped on the bandwagon, the scum felt relatively safe. Then an opposing bandwagon started on ON. If ON is scum, then the vote on Sinani became even more important, as Sinani was the only other option. If ON is scum, then everyone on the Sinani bandwagon becomes even more suspicious than they are now, to the point where they become lynchable/vigi targets (imo). This is actually the most likely scenario, since mataza/palmar are both on my scumdar and steff/prplhz are both pretty scummy too.
You are assuming that mafia knew sinani as vet from the start. When he asked his green question he had votes from prplhz, palmar and mataza. Up until then we have no reason to assume that the mafia had prioritized him, although he was an easy target.
After the green question people joined the bandwagon in this order: stefftastiq, unichan, varpulis, originalname.
Then the actual claim came, varpulis proposed originalname as the alternate wagon but forgot to actually switch votes, you put your vote for ON and palmar switched.
Would palmar switch vote so quickly if he was scum? My gut tells me no. Sinani was an important target at that point and mafia still didn't know how the town would react to the claim. We now know that mataza was a citizen. I have a scum read on prplhz, but logic tells us that there are probably at least 2 goons to be found in the second wave to jump on sinani's bandwagon. I find kav's argument against originalname convincing and I think he is the best bandwagon candidate right now.
I have to go to a job interview right now, but after that I promise I'll be more active than I have been till now.
On June 08 2011 17:04 unichan wrote:
I'm a bit more reluctant to jump on the bandwagon this time - we all saw how the last pressure bandwagon turned out. That being said, OriginalName's defense isn't very strong. He has enough votes on him for pressure now, and they probably won't be taken off any time soon looking through his recent posts. He goes for Palmar, who isn't really on anybody's shit list - it looks like he's just going for a target for others to bandwagon. Like what happened with sinani, he's using the "weak" and "filler" post attack to try to get others to agree. However the argument isn't mounted as clearly as the one against sinani was, and clearly no one is buying it.
Trying to mount another bandwagon is actually the only sensible ON could do as town. Looking at it from this perspective, he realizes he has nothing that clears him, so his best defense is trying to get somebody else lynched; He knows he's town and therefore any lynch helps town more than his lynch.
However why Palmar? Why not youngmiini? ON says he's been suspicious of YM for a while, he's been a vocal supporter of the argument against him and more importantly there are already other people that seem ready to support this vote. In fact I think youngmiini would make the most sense even if ON was scum.
The Palmar vote makes me think one of two things: either originalname has given up and is not trying, or he is scum along with youngmiini.
Now, the person I've been thinking the most about is kavdragon. Yesterday you explained how originalname was bandwagoned too easy and this made him town in your eyes even though you thought his defense was poor. And then the weird part begins. You said you were proposing unichan as an alternate, but you had to take time to find an argument against him first. You then show your argument, which was, pardon me if I'm blunt, "See, in this post he's very indecisive. That's scummy. In this post however he's very direct. That's called scumpeak". And nobody actually challenges that argument, not even unichan; prplhz critizes you for bringing it too soon as if that's what he was expecting from the start. What happens then is that everybody ignores unichan and half the town switches to him because you did. What I saw happen was you manipulating half the town (me included) into voting for originalname, and the rest for unichan.
You say it's not necessary to DT check you because you're confident you can defend yourself if you're facing lynch. I think if you're scum we have lost precisely because of this. DT check kav please.
anyway I'm here.
When rereading, my eye caught kav's vet claim. I didn't read the rest of the post and then went back to read from the beginning of today, and caught myself thinking, wow what kav is saying actually makes sense if he is vet. All the stuff about being pretty sure there is no medic, no vig, and remembering how he was pushing for sinani and telling people to use night powers at random.
I know this is what he explains in his post aswell, but the point I'm making is that I belive if kav is false claiming than he planned to do so from day 1. I am pretty confident this time that he's not fooling me into believing him just with his latest posts.
Now I honestly don't know, but my guess that being randed mafia and coming into the game with the intention of acting like a vet from the start doesn't make too much sense and is unnecessarily risky. In any way occam's razor tells me that kav is more likely to be a vet than mafia.
Unichan vs Palmar
In the beginning I said how I thought unichan's early posts were suspicious, because as a first time player and scum, i adopted the approach he had. This approach was:
[/quote]I hate this game. I have no clue how to play fucking town.[/quote]
[/quote]I don't know
I have absolutely nothing to base my vote on because I don't know how to play fucking town. I'm completely useless at this analysis thing.[/quote]
(The quotes are from Palmar). I think this attitude is an easy way to avoid doing a citizen's job, which is to get and post reads. I don't have more clues than you have Palmar, so I'll use things like these to call you scum.
I'm going to read the thread from day1 once again now, because I just realized jeejee flew completely under my radar till today. his last posts give me the same vibes youngmiini's did so I'm inclined to think town but I'll come back to that later.
2 veterans in a 12 player game, what next?
brb, cue the
If mafia & getting lynched, I'm 100% claiming vet. Not confirmable and have an excuse to be alive for the rest of the game: "because the mafia know I am a vet"
quote. I wonder who said that.
do you think kav would plan ahead and, as scum, intentionally post stuff that looks scummy every day so that he could claim vet and look coherent, with another vet already flipped?
Claim is so ridiculous it's almost believable, but I'm sticking with sheeping after Stefftastiq.
Palmar I think you're the scummiest in here now. I think the scum is palmar, unichan and prp.
I'ts late night here and I'm starting to find it hard to think straight; I would vote for prplhz now but I'm afraid to. If I fall asleep and miss last minute developments, is it better for me to have voted or not? Does it even make a difference?
Where is unichan? there's no possibility he is actually the vig and steff is trolling us hard I hope. Right?
My vote stands because of reasons previously stated though I would not mind reiterating them by request.
I am not discarding your argument just yet, in fact I won my only other game by slipping a huge scumtell that somehow got misinterpreted by the first to respond and I was able to jump on the opportunity and turn it into a perfect defense. I can only imagine kavdragon would be able to do that better. But tbh, I still think the simplest solution is that kav is actually a vet. I'll wait to see how he responds to you, and also see where unichan stands in all this.
but I feel in a very sticky spot right now. deadline is approaching and both jeejee and steff are going for kav. either I'm wrong or they both are wrong
look also at unichan who was here till the end. Imo someone who talks will always look more suspicious than someone who doesn't. It sucks because I think it makes for less enjoyable games
so in other words good job ^^
Ty ^^ but mind that by "lurking" i don't mean not caring. I actually put a lot of effort in my posts, and spent more time than I proably should have on them, to sell myself as town. The problem is that it feels more like writing a school report rather than playing a party game, and goes against the spirit of mafia someone's on-the-spot reaction should play as much of a role as his analysis.
I think being "out there" and spewing posts all over would be more fun, but it would be much harder for me to do - especially since I don't have any town experience - while at the same time I run a much greater risk of getting lynched even if I do it well.