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On June 03 2011 08:34 Jackal58 wrote:Hi guys. Your friendly neighborhood curmudgeon here.  First. My apologies to Sandroba. Stop saying stupid shit and I'll stop calling you scum.  Second. Palmar if you want a fist bump from me you need to promise us you will shoot Kurumi.  He's our serial killer.  He still has a shot.  I'm not real comfy with him running around with a gun. I'm not real comfy with you running around with a gun.  Third. Twinkles. I have no clue what his alignment is .but I can tell you he cannot be lynched. Don't waste the time and effort trying to do it.  Fourth. I have activated my role and I am now required to post exorbitant amounts of smilies.  Get over it. And no I'm not sharing any more about my role than that. Pfffffttttt. The odds that Wiggles was framed at the very moment he shot desk is astronomical.  The odds he was bussed and framed and shot somebody else all at the same time are about the same as me getting laid tonight. Non existent.  That is all.  ##Vote: Mr Wiggles
I didn't shoot desk. I shot sinani. Also, I wouldn't have been bussed. Sinani would have been bussed, so my shot on him, would go to someone else, as would all other shots. I also have a theory on why it was to desk too. Scum definitely doesn't want BC back in the picture, and I'm guessing they were overjoyed that he got killed night 1, before he could reveal any analysis. The fact that I was framed as well is irrelevant to the bus. The two actions are completely unrelated.
On June 03 2011 08:35 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 08:31 Mataza wrote:
No, but I believe in Framers. Call me paranoid.
I cannot see proof of how the reveal of the possessed is impeccable.
We know exactly what he can do.
We DO NOT KNOW what the Joker can do.
SK means he can kill by alignment. We don´t know what he can with role power. Just being Batmans enemy is not an awesome power.
Batman was a goddamn superdoc. So guess how strong the power of the joker is? Being Vanilla SK doesn´t even compare the slightest. dont be so reluctant. If Wiggles turns out to be town, we get valuable info. BESIDES, hes not all pissy and didnt fuss about me shunning his attempt to say hes actually town. Believe me, he doesnt sound like a townie. DOWN WITH SCUM
Yes, I am pissed, I just have good control of myself as compared to raging. Raging won't get this sorted out, and will only shit up the thread. I'm also not going to quote every person who doesn't believe me and yell at them that I'm not scum. That's spam, that's bad. It only causes chaos. I'm following my own advice here.
Firstly, Day 1 wasn't very productive. I don't think this needs to be said, but it bears repeating. Among the newer players, you need to cut the back and forth. It doesn't amount to anything, and it only serves to clog up the thread. State your points once, clearly, and then only bring it up again when it's relevant. There was a lot of arguing, which only causes obfuscation, and lets scum hide behind it. We should also reduce the amount of one-liners and repetition. We get that you think someone is scummy, there's no need to repeat it over and over. For example, redFF, I can see you want to kill Mataza, but you don't need to express the desire every 10 posts, especially when you don't add anything more to it besides repetition. We also need to stop posting one-liners. They're useless, spammy, and normally barely relevant to the discussion at hand.
I'm not going to do that. I've made my points, and given my reasoning. I'm not going to keep spamming the same thing throughout the thread, because that's not what town does. That's what people who have lost the ability to reason calmly do, and scum.
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On June 03 2011 08:37 Cthsazsa wrote:Are you serious Mataza? Why the hell would you consider lynching someone else over an CONFIRMED SCUM. Steff can also confirm this. Why are you even trying to defend a scum? Yeah redFF is crazy, but maybe his speculation of you being scum is true. I'm going to start taking his voice into consideration. As for Bum, he can wait another day.  
I'm not confirmed, stop throwing that word around, it's stupid. Scum like to use that word, to hide behind checks, but let me tell you this. The only time you're confirmed, is when you die and flip. There is no other thing that is confirmed.
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On June 03 2011 08:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Wow wiggles isn't letting this go. I like the effort, but town would be more idiotic then usual not to lynch you.
As compared to an actual self-confirmed anti-town player who I'm 90% sure is mafia, right?
##Vote: Bumatlarge
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On June 03 2011 09:01 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 03 2011 08:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Wow wiggles isn't letting this go. I like the effort, but town would be more idiotic then usual not to lynch you. As compared to an actual self-confirmed anti-town player who I'm 90% sure is mafia, right? ##Vote: Bumatlarge IM CALLING OMGUS VOTE! SEE THAT GUYS? FoS! V0TiNg WiGg1e5
Well, when you have the entire town voting for you based on a faulty check with no analysis to back it up, voting for anyone is going to be OMGUS. Scum.
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On June 03 2011 09:01 Barundar wrote:
Modconfirmed red check
##Vote Wiggles
Will read thread tomorrow...
Firstly, it's not mod confirmed, I don't get where people got that idea from. It just means the results are what actually came back, not that they're correct about my alignment.
I'd also like to see you post more, and with actual substance. You've done basically nothing this game, and it's starting to become pretty suspicious. If you're town, you're not doing a very good job of helping.
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On June 03 2011 09:22 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 09:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 03 2011 09:01 bumatlarge wrote:On June 03 2011 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 03 2011 08:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Wow wiggles isn't letting this go. I like the effort, but town would be more idiotic then usual not to lynch you. As compared to an actual self-confirmed anti-town player who I'm 90% sure is mafia, right? ##Vote: Bumatlarge IM CALLING OMGUS VOTE! SEE THAT GUYS? FoS! V0TiNg WiGg1e5 Well, when you have the entire town voting for you based on a faulty check with no analysis to back it up, voting for anyone is going to be OMGUS. Scum. It was a joke bro, why so serious?
I want town to leave me alive, if only so I can shoot this Joker tonight.
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On June 03 2011 14:53 hiro protagonist wrote:
Why do I get the feeling that theres a lot of talking going on outside this thread. -_______-
guess I will just have to wait till people come back here.
some thoughts: Wiggles has got to be the vote. As jackal pointed out, there is very little chance that Mafia could have planed that. They did not know his role, I did. (unless he revealed his role in some mansion pm, but that does not sound like wiggles, or there is some daytime dt). It also makes sense for him to use his bullets, as if he is hit, he has no more of them. good to get the most use as soon as possible. The only thing that bothers me is Desk as a hit. why kill him, as he was not terribly useful imo. should the very unlikely happen and Wiggles flips green, Cthsazsa becomes my top suspect, as he gave sinani his role.
##vote Mr. Wiggles
There is not a lot of discussion about the God Damned Batman's after death statement. I would like to hear what people have to say about this. Why did he say Lynch? does he know that it would not bring him back? does he think hes scum? Writing this, I realize no one can answer it. But it bugs me.
Im fucking confused
Did you not read what I wrote? This isn't a scum master plan. All hits on sinani were redirected to desks, to stop all hits on him, like a bus driver, in order to stop anyone shooting him and reviving BC. This way, no matter how many people shot sinani, no one would hit him. This wasn't an ability that was used on me, it was an ability used on sinani, so if there was a watcher on desks, or even on sinani, now would be a good time to say something if you have relevant information. A frame on me, is completely irrelevant to hits on sinani being redirected to desks. The two things were two different actions, on two different people, that just happened to line up and cause this chaos.
Mafia didn't need to know my role. They didn't need to know desk's role. All they needed to believe was that shooting sinani would bring back BC, and that they didn't want that to happen.
Also, lynching sinani, seems like a bad idea, don't even bring it up. He's claimed his ability only works on being shot, and so did his role creator. I'm thinking there might a scum with a role that lets him post through dead people, and that explains BC. I discussed a similar idea for a role with some people before the game, so it's not too far fetched. I still wouldn't risk lynching sinani regardless of why BC posted, when anyone who knows anything about the role denies lynching lets him revive people.
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Serial Killer
You win if you are the last one standing. You have a bulletproof vest that can survive two night hits. You also have a gun that has two bullets.
Bum claimed complete invulnerability, Kurumi claimed SK. SK can survive two night hits. You can't shoot him to death, you have to lynch him.
So no, I'm not the clear lynch here. I am not "confirmed" scum, there is no such thing as confirmation, until you flip, I'll say it again. Bum and Sandroba have claimed to be anti-town. There is absolutely no reason that town would claim anti-town. So, you're going to lynch me, who is town, over two as close to confirmed as can be anti-town players?
Personally, I believe that Bum is mafia, not SK, and that he can be shot at night. I'll be willing to use my second shot tonight, on Bum, to call his bluff.
Kurumi, I believe him when he says he's the Serial Killer. This means, we can't kill him at night, and that he needs to be lynched.
So here's what I see in the thread:
You want to lynch me, when I'm nowhere near confirmed anti-town, and keep both Kurumi and Bum alive. They are both anti-town, they've claimed so. You're worried about me using a kill tonight, when both Bum and Kurumi should have a kill tonight as an SK.
I say:
[*]We lynch Kurumi today, to lower night KP
[*]I shoot Bum tonight
[*]If he's still alive, we lynch him
[*]If he dies, you can do whatever you want with me
Put down your torches and pitchforks, and look at this logically. There's two people, who are both 100% not town, and you want to keep them around. That doesn't make sense.
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On June 03 2011 16:36 Barundar wrote:
Why do you believe one of them claiming over the other? Mafia want's to push SK's that helps town you know...
I believe Bum is lying, because of how it came out, and also because I don't think kurumi would be dumb enough to claim SK for no reason when there wasn't suspicion on him if he was scum. There's no guarantee that Kurumi is going to do anything to help town, and I highly doubt he will. He's impossible to read, and very erratic. He's already killed a town player, and he'll continue to do so in the future. Even if he agreed to work with town, I don't think we're organized enough to actually give him a good target, and we'll continue to spill green blood. Remove the temptation and the potential now to spare ourselves further suffering down the road. That's my line of thought. It also lets us continue business more quickly, instead of having to waste a lynch on an SK when there's fewer people.
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On June 03 2011 23:10 Cthsazsa wrote:Mr. Wiggles is fucking scum. I don't know why it's so hard for some of you to realize that. Most likely the other scumsters are the ones trying to defend Wiggles and the ones trying to divert attention away from his lynch by suggesting we lynch the SK's. Yes, we are going to deal with them later, but we need to lynch this obvious and confirmed scum TODAY. Fellow townies please stop playing like morons. Ignore posts by Wiggles and Kurumi. I advise you shouldn't pay so much attention to bum as well. Do not let those three guys influence your vote. Please use your common sense. That said,
How ironic. You say to use common sense, but you are doing your best to act against it. Has there been a single piece of analysis done that shows how I am scum? Has there been any argument against me that doesn't solely rely on the check in the day post? Use your head, man. There's two people, one scum, and one SK, both anti-town, who you don't even need to analyze. All you need to do is use a little bit of logic. Town saw red text in the day post, caught the scent of blood, and now you guys can't think of anything else. Stop letting your emotions rule you, open your eyes, and use your head.
On June 04 2011 00:54 Karshe wrote:
Also, as I previously said,
##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
We can't spend the entire rest of the game unsure if you are lying about your alignment and being the victim of a bus and run, hopefully you understand. Your death should help the town no matter what you flip.
The entirety of this game is spent being unsure of people's alignments, or maybe this town doesn't get that. Let me bold it for everyone:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CONFIRMATION OF ALIGNMENT.
I don't care, if a DT comes back with someone as green, or red. If there isn't any semblance of a case that can be made against them, you don't 100% trust the check, and if you reveal as a DT anyways, you're playing terribly. This is just a piece of general advice for the future, as a lot of the people jumping on me and not talking are newer players who are too naive to have distrust in a game of misinformation.
Mafia is based on how you talk, and what you do. It's not based on sitting around, and waiting for DT checks to roll in. Play with decent people, and they'll destroy you if you only rely on blue roles to win you the game. No matter how much redFF likes to call for analysis to be done, he sure hasn't contributed at all. Probably the only person doing analysis so far, is Dropbear. The rest of you are too content to jump on a bandwagon with the entirety of the mafia and scream "kill the scum" as you lynch another townie. This complacency will kill us in the long run.
Also, lynching for information is bad, bad, bad.
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On June 04 2011 03:52 Kurumi wrote:I like pie too,could we share recipes?
Not with confirmed anti-town, no, sorry.
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I didn't start that stupid argument on day 1, that was just redFF being bad again.
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Here's the first part of my reads:
# Torte de Lini: Scum
+ Show Spoiler +He has contributed literally nothing to the town. Most of his posts have been asking questions, and playing the noob card. I see this as an attempt at thread derailment, as well as trying to find an excuse to lurk without needing to give his thoughts. He was also fingered as mafia, several times in the thread, most notably by deskcaress, at the end of the night. On June 03 2011 03:18 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 09:46 deskscaress wrote:hey deconduo, assuming sinani is telling the truth and he will try to revive BC, what will happen to BC is he is revived AFTER bum is killed? is his "retirement" clause then null since he had nothing to do with bum's death?my idea: don't kill sinani tonight lynch bum tomorrow resurrect BC tomorrow night via killing sinani boom, BC is back with no clauses to put him away either way i think we should lynch bum tomorrow because he is not town. sorry bum quoting this because if deconduo answered it, i missed it, and i honestly think this is a better course of action then bringing back BC if that means we need to keep a CONFIRMED NON-TOWN alive also, as an update on Torte De Lini who claimed last night that he couldn't post any more (i hypothesized that this was likely a soft-claim on a posting restriction, kurumi adamantly stated it was just IRL obligations), he has posted 13 times on TL.net since then, with 0 in this thread. DING DING DING SCUMBELL IS RINGING, I WANT AN EXPLANATION This, combined with the fact that my shot on sinani was redirected to deskscaress, lead me to conclude, that Torte de Lini, is most likely scum.
# Kurumi: Serial Killer
+ Show Spoiler +He claimed it, so I see no reason for him to be lying. It was a bad claim, and I don't see why he did it, but I’m inclined to believe him. Call out his hits for him, and if he doesn’t follow through, you lynch him dead. If he refuses or shows any resistance to following town directives, kill him. Besides that, he’s useless due to his alignment.
# Amber[LighT]: Town
+ Show Spoiler +He’s a dog. He’s also a dog who looks like he’s trying to help town. It’s hard to actually get a read on him when his communication is so restricted, but I get the feeling he’s town. Check him with a detective to be sure.
# Jackal58 : Town
+ Show Spoiler +His big post during the night is probably the single best thing that’s been posted this entire game. He’s trying to get the town back on track, and knock some sense into the 90% of town that made day 1 useless. He’s green.
# DropBear: Town
+ Show Spoiler +He’s been one of the only people I’ve seen who’s actually been contributing in a meaningful way. He’s not afraid to speak his mind, and from what I’ve seen, has actually done a bit of analysis, and not much name calling.
# Barundar: No Read
+ Show Spoiler +He has like 4 posts, seriously. Get more active.
# sinani206: Town
+ Show Spoiler +I personally believe his claim that he’ll bring back BC. Also, his posting smells of unsure green to me. If he were scum, he’d have a lot more direction and focus. This leads me to believe he’s green.
# Mataza: Town
+ Show Spoiler +Maybe I’m biased here, but he feels like one of the only people who’s using his head and actually realizes there’s (since you guys love throwing this word around) confirmed anti-town, one of whom is scum, just traipsing around. He’s actually using his head, and not jumping on a bandwagon. Actually looks the greenest to me right now.
# redFF: Scum
+ Show Spoiler +From his nonsensical claim Day 1, to pushing bad lynches, tunneling, and worthlessly arguing, redFF has done more harm than good to town, from what I can see. Now, on Day 2, he is one of the staunchest proponents for my lynch, and I’ll bet you right now, that he’s doing it to look pro-town, and will bring it up that way later in the game that he fought so hard for a DT check, even if it was wrong. There’s also another point to be made. He constantly calls out for town to analyze, yet does no work himself. You judge people by their actions, not by their intents, and redFF has only taken actions which harm the town, leading me to label him as scum. If he’s town, he might as well stop posting, because he’s not doing anything to help.
# bumatlarge: Scum
+ Show Spoiler +He’s scum. no ifs, ands, or buts.
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On June 04 2011 05:02 GMarshal wrote:
DB, I didn't add anyone to my mason circle, I attempted to add Palmar but failed because I was role blocked. I started with a random member day one, I got Kurumi.
Does your kill go through bullet-proof? You should probably off Kurumi tonight then, to lower anti-town KP. I really don't get that people want to keep him around, and that they think they can control his KP.
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On June 04 2011 06:07 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 05:54 Kenpachi wrote:On June 04 2011 04:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Here's the first part of my reads: # Torte de Lini: Scum+ Show Spoiler +He has contributed literally nothing to the town. Most of his posts have been asking questions, and playing the noob card. I see this as an attempt at thread derailment, as well as trying to find an excuse to lurk without needing to give his thoughts. He was also fingered as mafia, several times in the thread, most notably by deskcaress, at the end of the night. On June 03 2011 03:18 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 09:46 deskscaress wrote:hey deconduo, assuming sinani is telling the truth and he will try to revive BC, what will happen to BC is he is revived AFTER bum is killed? is his "retirement" clause then null since he had nothing to do with bum's death?my idea: don't kill sinani tonight lynch bum tomorrow resurrect BC tomorrow night via killing sinani boom, BC is back with no clauses to put him away either way i think we should lynch bum tomorrow because he is not town. sorry bum quoting this because if deconduo answered it, i missed it, and i honestly think this is a better course of action then bringing back BC if that means we need to keep a CONFIRMED NON-TOWN alive also, as an update on Torte De Lini who claimed last night that he couldn't post any more (i hypothesized that this was likely a soft-claim on a posting restriction, kurumi adamantly stated it was just IRL obligations), he has posted 13 times on TL.net since then, with 0 in this thread. DING DING DING SCUMBELL IS RINGING, I WANT AN EXPLANATION This, combined with the fact that my shot on sinani was redirected to deskscaress, lead me to conclude, that Torte de Lini, is most likely scum. # Kurumi: Serial Killer+ Show Spoiler +He claimed it, so I see no reason for him to be lying. It was a bad claim, and I don't see why he did it, but I’m inclined to believe him. Call out his hits for him, and if he doesn’t follow through, you lynch him dead. If he refuses or shows any resistance to following town directives, kill him. Besides that, he’s useless due to his alignment. # Amber[LighT]: Town+ Show Spoiler +He’s a dog. He’s also a dog who looks like he’s trying to help town. It’s hard to actually get a read on him when his communication is so restricted, but I get the feeling he’s town. Check him with a detective to be sure. # Jackal58 : Town+ Show Spoiler +His big post during the night is probably the single best thing that’s been posted this entire game. He’s trying to get the town back on track, and knock some sense into the 90% of town that made day 1 useless. He’s green. # DropBear: Town+ Show Spoiler +He’s been one of the only people I’ve seen who’s actually been contributing in a meaningful way. He’s not afraid to speak his mind, and from what I’ve seen, has actually done a bit of analysis, and not much name calling. # Barundar: No Read+ Show Spoiler +He has like 4 posts, seriously. Get more active. # sinani206: Town+ Show Spoiler +I personally believe his claim that he’ll bring back BC. Also, his posting smells of unsure green to me. If he were scum, he’d have a lot more direction and focus. This leads me to believe he’s green. # Mataza: Town+ Show Spoiler +Maybe I’m biased here, but he feels like one of the only people who’s using his head and actually realizes there’s (since you guys love throwing this word around) confirmed anti-town, one of whom is scum, just traipsing around. He’s actually using his head, and not jumping on a bandwagon. Actually looks the greenest to me right now. # redFF: Scum+ Show Spoiler +From his nonsensical claim Day 1, to pushing bad lynches, tunneling, and worthlessly arguing, redFF has done more harm than good to town, from what I can see. Now, on Day 2, he is one of the staunchest proponents for my lynch, and I’ll bet you right now, that he’s doing it to look pro-town, and will bring it up that way later in the game that he fought so hard for a DT check, even if it was wrong. There’s also another point to be made. He constantly calls out for town to analyze, yet does no work himself. You judge people by their actions, not by their intents, and redFF has only taken actions which harm the town, leading me to label him as scum. If he’s town, he might as well stop posting, because he’s not doing anything to help. # bumatlarge: Scum+ Show Spoiler +He’s scum. no ifs, ands, or buts. Does not compute. scum. Are You a computer? @_@
He's not a computer, but it would be stupid to reveal his role right now. He should also stop lurking so much.
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On June 05 2011 02:01 Kurumi wrote:
You're so fucking pathetic wanting me dead. Understand You dumb Townies,that mafia needs 3KP+Roleblock or 4KP to kill me. As noone claimed hit I am going to believe that Mafia Team has 2KP - 1 from their "own" and 1 from Wiggles. I am willing shoot where You want me,but as long You keep me the longer Mafia needs to worry that they need to push for lynch or waste kp on me.
Why is town going to keep you around again? You do realize that you aren't part of town, you're a third-part serial killer who wins on his own.
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On June 05 2011 02:48 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 02:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 05 2011 02:01 Kurumi wrote:
You're so fucking pathetic wanting me dead. Understand You dumb Townies,that mafia needs 3KP+Roleblock or 4KP to kill me. As noone claimed hit I am going to believe that Mafia Team has 2KP - 1 from their "own" and 1 from Wiggles. I am willing shoot where You want me,but as long You keep me the longer Mafia needs to worry that they need to push for lynch or waste kp on me. Why is town going to keep you around again? You do realize that you aren't part of town, you're a third-part serial killer who wins on his own. Because: I count as town for Mafia's objective to overrun townies I need to be killed by Mafia to achieve their victory Mafia needs to push a lynch or waste KP on me to actually kill me.
Mafia need to hit you 3 times to kill you, as does anybody else.
You count as scum for Town's objective to eliminate all anti-town forces.
You need to be killed by Town to achieve our victory
Anyone needs to lynch you to get rid of you
Once the numbers get smaller, or mafia get eliminated, you're going to have to stop helping town to stop them from killing all the mafia, allowing them to focus on killing you. However, you've already revealed yourself, and have essentially thrown away most of your chance at winning 2 days into the game.
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On June 05 2011 02:49 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 02:18 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, I think the circle I'm in is pretty smart, so I'm just going to do what they say. They all seem fairly townish and lynching an SK is not on the top of their to-do list, so I think thats in the best interest for everyone. Jackal can instruct you on who I will be hitting, and if you don't believe him then I don't really care. We need Palmar on board and with 2 kp at his disposal. Kurumi if we can prevent Palmar and Bum from shooting townies by killing you we not only save random townie kills we save ourselves from having to lynch you. Not my fault you claimed SK.
Kurumi has two bullet-proof vests, you need 3 kp to kill him.
##Fistpound: Palmar
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It looks like town is going to kill me after all...
So, here are my thoughts for night actions.
Medic list:
Protect people who are contributing, and doing analysis. Don't protect people based on their roles. Remember, role does not equal alignment. So, even if Palmar has a KP and made it public, you can't assume he's town. Analysts will win this game if we can salvage it, not roles.
Vigilante list:
You should have some strong scum reads by now, so Night 2 is the night to shoot if you're going to. Shoot your strongest scum read, and if you're not sure, give a list of candidates to town if you've already claimed to get some night discussion going. What you don't want to do, is say which person specifically you want to kill, because then our bus-driver might save them if they're scum.
Watcher/Tracker list:
Follow and watch people suspicious, and who are supposed to do specific actions for town tonight. Those players are Kurumi, Bumatlarge, and Palmar. They've all agreed to do something for town, so now is the time to hold them to it and see if they go somewhere else.
Detectives:
Use your head. If you can't, check lurkers. Look at people you aren't sure of, or if you only have reads of who the scum are 100% (*cough cough*), use a DT check to make sure your suspicions are correct. Watch out though, because my framer's still on the prowl too.
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Also, people shouldn't stop talking. Scum are happy to sit here with no activity and let me die, but town shouldn't be.
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EPT
