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On April 27 2011 04:40 Ace wrote:+ Show Spoiler [1st posts] +On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one. Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote:
I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it. Now this post: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote:
Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later):
DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do? And lastly Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote:
it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get. I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles. First lets us realize that as of the first line of his post Jackal's insistence is that we should find our Day 1 lynch. My issue here is that tnkted's announcement of a strange role is being put out there as if it's scummy when it isn't. It's not anti-town, it's not scummy - it's just bad play. Now when I posted my list earlier about the 3 people who I'd contact I listed Jackal and my reasoning was that he doesn't suck. Which means I think more often than not he can recognize bad town play over scum play and imo this is an obvious case of it. + Show Spoiler [2nd posts] +On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote:
Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ???? I'd also like to know the point of your exercise. This was from the previous page when I asserted that tnkted never role claimed and Jackal quoted some of his posts that didn't show that he did. Pretty much this is either Scum behavior or Jackal mixing up tnkted's bad play with Scum play.
Was not an insistence. You make it sound as though I was making demands. I put forth a suggestion. There was very little activity in the thread. I jump started it. I chose the most erratic seeming player (in my opinion) to look at. I freely admitted I suck at analysis and asked for the opinions of others. I got one opinion from GM and a rather odd post from you. You said tnkted never role claimed or hinted at one. Your words not mine. So I quoted 3 posts of his that absolutely hinted at a role claim.
So I put forth some analysis admitting I'm not very good at it. Point out an error you made in your assertion of tnkted not even hinting at a role claim and I'm scum?
I've been trying really really hard to shake this reputation I have of being a tunneler. I'm trying really really hard to develop an ability to do analysis. All I have received for my efforts in my last game and this one is labeled scum on day one. If that's the way it's going to be fuck it I'll just tunnel people. 
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Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes.
So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons.
The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
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I'm sorry that should have read bandwagon.
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On April 27 2011 09:15 GMarshal wrote:
@Jackal, Ace is a scary player on either side, mafia or town, his town play is not up to his mafia play, but thats because his scum play is miles ahead of what almost anyone can pull off.
That was my impression as well but I think the only time we played together was in PYP II. I was lynched on day 1 so it wasn't very long. I basically sacrificed myself to prove that 1 of the 5 people above me on the draft list was scum.
I was not scum then I am not scum now. I see no reason to be a sacrificial lamb in this game so I'm just a little bit irked.
Hell the only time I've ever been scum was in LSB's Clues and Puzzles game.
You know how that worked out for me.
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On April 27 2011 10:43 Eiii wrote:
anyway I'm gonna vote for kenpachi (for now) since he's self-confirmed as useless. If tackster's gonna be modkilled then we should probably throw all our votes into him, though.
He has posted and voted. Why would he be mod killed?
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On April 27 2011 11:28 tnkted wrote:
I actually wanted to draw a hit from mafia tonight, hopefully I did. I'll explain after the day post.
Some people weren't content letting me play my game (jackal, of whom I would expect nothing less, impervious, who I think is just new, and zorkmid, who got overly defensive when he was FOS'd and immediately latched onto what he considered the weakest player). This was pretty stupid on their part. I think most of the rest of the crew here understood that I was trying to draw mafia attention with my 'fake' slip. Ace certainly got it, when he called it bad play, and I think darm understood it. I didn't realize Ace was so well regarded in the mafia community, but apparently he is and he's probably going to be killed tonight. If I were scum I'd vote for him. Hopefully my gambit drew enough votes to save him.
Full claim after the post.
Dude. Bullshit.
First Impervious isn't new.
Second When I see shit I don't understand I ask about it. I understand your love of breadcrumbs and gambits. But don't fucking try to tell me I'm out of line when I call somebody on a bullshit laden post. I'm not clairvoyant. I can't read your mind. When I see bullshit I call it what it is. If I had a hand in ruing some gambit you were trying to run don't blame me. Your execution left a lot to be desired.
If you're going to rum some kind of gambit run it. Don't start bitching that I rained on your parade. If you expected me to piss in your Kool Aid you probably should have done something different.
Bullshit. I'm not responsible for your gambits failure. You are.
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If you wanna post TL;DR go to dyslexics anothernymouse
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I'm going to bed. Goodnight guys.
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GMan do you really want vigis shooting tonight?
From the OP:
Mafia wins when they outnumber Town and Town has no killing roles remaining. Mafia will kill the submitted name with a simple majority of votes.
Seems a bit hasty to me man.
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Looks like GMarshall's DT list.
And some of those words will be hard to avoid.
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On April 28 2011 02:52 Zorkmid wrote:
/out
Too late for that.
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On April 28 2011 04:28 chaoser wrote:Zorkmid will hopefully be replaced momentarily
Seriously? I thought he just typed out in the wrong thread.
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Did you remember to bring the goddamned RPGs??????
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On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic 
It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long.
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On April 28 2011 08:02 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote:On April 28 2011 06:28 bumatlarge wrote:Wow this is confusing, but I think I got the basic gist of the mechanics. Ace, wouldnt the name game be kinda helpful for CL to make a list and be able to point out multiple persons without naming names? And jackal is the traffic thing a breadcrumb lol? I've been reading through thread keeping my eyes open for non-thread related stuff just in case, and you spend a nice chunk on discussing traffic lol... Kinda suspicious of Ace to what he is suggesting and how it helps town. Jackal next because of the traffic, and I haven't read into anyone else, except tnkted, who will just sit in a corner sprinkling his little crumbs everywhere. Aren't we supposed to try to prevent everyone from being able to breadcrumb, not give them the best opportunities to do so? Maybe I missed key stuff, but I don't really have much time for a full analysis yet. I'm stuck in traffic It took me a minute to figure out what you were referring to. My ride home last night was brutal. It was back to the norm tonight. Just long. I'll be moving to lynch the next person to refer to traffic, ride, or any driving terms, hell any non-mafia conversations will be suspicious! this isn't your personal blogs section, whatever some people may have believed in the past 
I only mentioned it to put my thought process into context.
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On April 28 2011 13:06 GMarshal wrote:
Fuck, there goes my chance of getting the girl....
gl town, nail those bastards for me
Well poop. We will man.
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Zorkmid has been replaced by Bumatlarge.
And I wasn't paranoid just honestly amazed that I was called scum.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 29 2011 01:34 why wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2011 08:47 Jackal58 wrote:
Long drive home. Traffic sucked. Actually traffic lights sucked. The first 20 miles they were all out. Fuck me. Anyways I was pondering what I may have said or done to appear scummy to Why and Ace. I honestly can't think of a reason. I have been honest and straight up with my posts. I asked questions about sandroba and why he would make a post that alluded to information he wouldn't share. Why thought that was scummy. sandroba answered it and others beat me about the head and shoulders about it. I'm not always the most astute person in the world. I moved on. I did what I felt was an honest analysis of tnkted. I was hoping tnk would respond so we could move on. Tnkted is playing in a game I am cohosting on another forum He has not been there all day so I am going to assume he just has life going on today. Ace just says I'm scummy with no real reasons. He says tnkted is just playing poorly. and I'm scum because I analyzed him. I say bull shit to both their votes.
So my traffic addled brain came up with two reasons.
The first one is scum cannot build a bus today because they don't know each other. Except for one. This scenario would put why in the scum camp with Ace as the CL. It's the only bus scum can do. Why has disappeared. Ace has voted me because I'm scummy.
The second scenario is this. I was talking to Coagulation before the game started about the people playing. Asking him for his opinion of those that I hadn't played with or played very little with. Most are names I don't know. Coag didn't know them either. But his assessment of Ace was much praise on his ability to play scum. He said he's one of the best. But that was followed by "But his town play absolutely sucks".
So now I am torn between two options. I honestly don't know which scenario makes more sense to me. I really do hate day 1.
I put some light pressure on you. Ace tells me my reason for pressure was completely stupid here: + Show Spoiler +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. then like 12 hours later accuses you for completely different reasons. You come to the conclusion that either Ace sucks at town play or Ace and I are in a scum bandwagon together. Sounds paranoid to me. I'd still rather put pressure on Ace though. Speaking of which: ##Vote: AceJackal, who are your top suspects at the moment? There are now enough posts to at least have some suspicions... Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:45 GGQ wrote:
The simple fact that Ace didn't die is suspicious enough. ...do you actually think his behavior is scummy? The fact that Ace didn't die probably means that a lot of the sleeper agents think that Ace is scum, not necessarily that Ace actually is scum.
I still don't know why I'm scummy looking to either of you. That's the only conclusion I could come to.
I still think that scum are the ones posting the least in this game. GGQ,tnkted, Rean prior to being mod killed. And yourself.
You say Ace may not have gotten killed because scum thinks he's scum. But if 5 scum think he's scum wouldn't a boat load of townies have been voting for him yesterday? I still say that as scum become more aware of who is on their team they will start to become more vocal. Kinda like you are.
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On April 29 2011 05:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Ok, some thoughts:
Firstly, GM decided not to shoot last night. This is a little surprising to me given his vigilante list, that he didn't decide to shoot a lurker off it himself. I guess he figured that he would live long enough to pick a better target and just wanted to apply pressure with it. That said, I'd look at people on his vig list a little bit more, so: Eii, GGQ, why, Vain, darm. These are the people who would have felt threatened by GM because he wanted them dead. The DT list is also somewhere you could look, but to a lesser extent, because saying you want someone to die is more pressure than saying you want someone to get checked, one of those situations isn't salvageable.
On the vig issue. GM may have decided to not shoot after I reminded him of scums win condition.
Town has to be out of players with guns. So GMs loss is really quite significant to us.
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On April 29 2011 08:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So... did the thread die? I want to type more on my new keyboard :p
Breadcrumb?
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EPT
