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Sleeper Cell Mafia - Page 26

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 29 2011 23:48 GMT
#501
Mafia isn't supposed to be a morality play. So why do I feel scummy voting for Bum?
I feel like I'm doing a huge omgus but I also feel like I have no other choice.
Bum is not my first choice for my vote. But I really need to know what he is.

##VOTE: Bumatlarge


Life can only kill you once.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 00:08 GMT
#502
Guys, if bum is in fact the analyst, while there is only a ~25% chance that he's actually the cell leader, there is a ~50% chance of getting a red. That is a pretty damn good chance at the moment.

While it is stupid (imo) that bum claimed already, if he is the DT, he'll be a high priority target for the mafia, so they'll take him out at night.

I don't see the reasoning for a red claiming as DT. It seems like such a dumb move. It instantly paints a giant target on them when he's still alive the next day. And if the mafia don't eliminate him tonight, then they risk him actually finding a mafia (assuming that Jackal is green).

And, of course, if he's green, it could be an interesting play, if you really had a strong read on someone.

I don't think it's a good idea to lynch him. Voting for someone other than Jackal, based on some kind of analysis, would be fine if you don't believe bum, but lynching him is really fucking dumb right now.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2011 00:42 GMT
#503
How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 00:50 GMT
#504
On April 30 2011 09:42 Ace wrote:
How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red?

Somebody posted that statistic a while ago. People need to stop using statistics is evidence. They can only get us so far.

Analytical reasoning > statistical reasoning in a game of mafia, imo.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
April 30 2011 00:55 GMT
#505
There's 12 people left, and five or less scum. Taking the maximum of 5, and minusing yourself when you know you're town, there's a 45% chance that anyone besides yourself is scum. This applies to everyone though, not just Jackal, that's why I don't like that reasoning for pushing a lynch.

I'd be ok with lynching why/darm right now, if we want to keep bum alive in case he's telling the truth.

The only problem, is if he lives tomorrow, we're in the same spot we are today regarding the lynch. The difference would be he'd have another "result", which may or may not be to our benefit, depending on his alignment. At that point, he could be bussing someone, or he could be telling the truth, or he could just say "insufficient" again. It's really easy to fake, and it's hard to figure out if it's true or not.
you gotta dance
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 01:08 GMT
#506
why is gone. I'm why now.

I'm in full support of lynching Darm, but bum makes things so volatile that lynching him simplifies the situation very nicely. That's the logic behind the lynch, anyways. (I think)

If I can get enough people behind it, I'd much rather lynch Darm, but I'm not going to waste my vote if it's a lost cause.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 01:10 GMT
#507
On April 30 2011 09:50 VarpuliS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2011 09:42 Ace wrote:
How did you come to the conclusion there is a 50% chance of getting red?

Somebody posted that statistic a while ago. People need to stop using statistics is evidence. They can only get us so far.

Analytical reasoning > statistical reasoning in a game of mafia, imo.

Agreed, but it shouldn't be discounted so easily either.



As for how that is roughly 50%:

There are currently 13 players left. Assumption is that there are 3 mafia and 1 GF left.



Chance of mafia coming up with "Insufficient Analysis"

3 (number of normal mafia) * 0.25 (chance of then having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12 (chance of the DT checking any individual)

+

1 (GF) * 1.00 (chance of having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12

= 14.6% (through absolutely random checking).



Chances of a townie coming up with "Insufficient Analysis"

8 (number of non-DT townies left) * 0.25 (chance of having the result of Insufficient Analysis) * 1/12 (chance of the DT checking any individual)

= 16.7% (also through absolutely random checking).


Therefore there is a ~47% chance of Jackal being red, assuming bum is really the DT.

So, the real question is whether you believe bum or not. Given the situation, a ~50% chance is pretty damn good.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 01:13 GMT
#508
EBWOP - Crap, I didn't use the right numbers. With 1 less town than what I used, there's actually a slightly better chance of hitting a red.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2011 01:13 GMT
#509
I don't believe bum. Even if he is telling the truth he didn't get a guilty result on jackal which is the crux of the issue here. They could both be townies and end the game with 2 mislynches.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
April 30 2011 01:16 GMT
#510
On April 30 2011 07:07 Ace wrote:
bum what many other things? You have nothing. I know you're lying because your claim just. doesn't. make. sense. There is no "townie reaction here". The only reaction is that you said and I'll say this again:

1.) you investigated Jackal
2.) got an inconclusive result

In no way can you say Jackal is Scum for sure now. You got an IC result, figured Jackal must be the CL then went from there. That isn't actual Scum hunting is it? You're trying to fit Jackal into what you think happens to be Scummy instead of finding Jackal to be scum. Big difference here.

GGQ that part you bolded actually isn't a strong part of his analysis at all. Other players have talked about the CL, tnkted pulled some move earlier that was a "bread crumb", even GM made a list of DT checks and talked about the Intelligence Agent taking a shot Night 1:

So in what way does bum decide that jackal stands out more than any of them? You and everyone else need to change your votes. Especially with this little gem right here:

Show nested quote +

That you immediately assumed I was lying was what made me really think you were scum, instead of looking at both sides in the thread, like every other townie did, like varp, GGQ and impervious. Now you went back on that, so yeah I think you slipped there. But you shouldn't be lynched until after jackal.


It's Day 2. How do you know they are all town? Only way you would know that if is you know who is all Scum.

Hello Mr. Cell Leader.


Yeah, tnkted has been playing weirdly, but that's not the issue right now. Jackal has been focused on the CL to a strange degree, he's not playing like he usually does, his one attack in this game has been weak and self-undermining. I don't trust him. He's also overreacting to getting voted when I don't think he was ever leading the lynch.
GGQ
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2653 Posts
April 30 2011 01:16 GMT
#511
On April 30 2011 08:48 Jackal58 wrote:
Mafia isn't supposed to be a morality play. So why do I feel scummy voting for Bum?
I feel like I'm doing a huge omgus but I also feel like I have no other choice.
Bum is not my first choice for my vote. But I really need to know what he is.

##VOTE: Bumatlarge




This is such a bad bad vote. Just because you are pointing out that your move is scummy doesn't stop it from being scummy.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 01:20 GMT
#512
I'm not 100% sold on him either. But I still think that lynching him is a mistake.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 01:21 GMT
#513
EBWOP - that was to Ace.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
April 30 2011 01:31 GMT
#514
Ace (1)
tnkted

bumatlarge (6)
ace
sandroba
Varpulis
Eiii
Mr. Wiggles
Jackal58

jackal (3)
bum
GGQ
Impervious

Bum currently leads. Darm and Vain need to vote. Day ends in 2 and a half hours.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 01:39 GMT
#515
How many people voting for bumatlarge would rather vote for somebody else? I think that there are enough of us to overturn the lynch. I think that it'd be far better to lynch Darmousseh than bumatlarge. He's not been playing smart, but he's been more active and helpful than Darm.

Also, he's liable to get modkilled anyways, and if he does, and we lynch bum, and mafia gets another town kill tonight... we're at lylo, if I'm not mistaken.

I feel like lynching darm is simply safer. after all, its a 45% chance that he's scum
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 01:42 GMT
#516
EBWOP: People currently voting for Jackal58 switching would be helpful too.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4222 Posts
April 30 2011 01:46 GMT
#517
While I don't like the idea of lynching darm right now, I really think it would be worse to lynch bum, so you can count me in. I'll check back before midnight, and switch my vote if it'll help.
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 01:52 GMT
#518
If impervious + me switch, bum is still leading the vote 4-2. We'll need 2 more votes on Darm to tip the scales.

Any takers?
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
April 30 2011 01:56 GMT
#519
i don't really have time to play this game. voting bumatlarge
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
April 30 2011 02:02 GMT
#520
Goddamnit, now we need 3 more votes on Darmousseh. I really don't want to take this guy to LYLO.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
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