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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: my read is mafia i had that read from the beginning i got some other reads yet that i need to consider more wholly later though, it wasn't fruitless Lol, sorry I meant the right read. Heh. that looks like I planned that now. w/e don't care. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Firstly, this game is about having fun. To have fun you need to get at least a little invested in the game, and you're not going to invest anything in the game by not posting. Post in the thread for a while. Post who you think is town and why, post who you think is mafia and why. Start giving some opinions, and you will become more interested in the game. The more interested you become the more you will participate, the funner it will become. There has been a TON of spam so far, and there have been some rude comments. Both of these are not typical of TL Mafia (Although the last game did have a lot of spam too.) Don't worry about it. Everything in this thread is said like actors on a stage. Nothing is personal, and most people are a lot friendlier out of the thread. So what are you waiting for? Jump in and start posting. As a warning, people don't like it when you post lists/opinions without explaining them. If you give no explinatitions, there's nothing backing up your argument, and it also makes it look like you're hiding something. So just explain yourself and you won't have people breathing down your neck. =D GL all! | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:52 GMarshal wrote: My only worry about you in power kav is that your 3rd party play in insane 2 was so good that Im afraid you could be scum and be getting away with it here. Aidnai was actually pretty spot on about my play. It wasn't that good, infact I knowingly followed all the patterns I had suspected that blacks would follow before the game started. The reason I got away with is was that no one was analyzing. That was town's downfall the entire game. If anyone had bothered to analyse me it would have been obvious. Heck, I even gave the town a list of all the things that they needed to look for to find the rest of the scum team (including myself), and NO ONE bothered to check it. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Protact: tnkted's plan is not good for the town, so why is DoctorHelvetica objecting make him scum? Tnkted's plan was pro-town. Period. When was the last time that you looked at the voting thread? When was the last time you looked at this thread? Posting votes in this thread makes analysis much easier. There is absolutely no down side to it, and a definite up side. Not posting your vote should not be considered a scum tell as much as it should just be frowned upon. But it's not like it's going to be enforced, it's just something that will happen. When people start posting votes in here, people will start looking at people who don't, and ask them why. Stomping on that plan was anti-town, so it's one point in favor of Dr.H being scum. Next: You brushed aside my accusation that you could be red, saying that that applys to anyone. WRONG. You are the only person that has claimed assassin. You truly are a master of the pen, and i admire your ability to write convincingly, but you cannot defeat the logic that It would be worth it to get one mafia into one of the seats, even if they die. One of the easiest ways to do that is to get someone who is good at the game to claim Assassin. Based on that alone, i don't think that you should be considered for office. Lastly, you are correct in assuming that I have not read all, or even two of your games. I didn't have the time to do it, but I'm sure as hell not going to let that stop me from analyzing your play. I've talke to vets who have played with you, so I have do have some idea of your play. To those who say I'm posting stuff that's obvious so that I can say I'm pro town Don't you think that if i were mafia, I'd have realized that since everyone is saying that it's not buying me pro-town points, and stopped doing it? Why would mafia put so much effort into something that has been explained several times as NOT being something that will earn you pro-town points? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
#2 Analyze to Argue: Without good analysis as a strong argument, the best scum hunter in the world can't do anything: He has to be able to convince the town that his target is scum. Once you find your scum, you have to work to lynch him/her. Everyone is green till proven otherwise, and the burden of proof lies on you. Your analysis should includes those posts that are relevant, and good examples of the scummy behavior you are trying to point out. When I'm scum I'll make analyses that quote every single post so that people see a giant wall, and don't actually read the analysis. When you are a townie, that sort of thing is detrimental to your analysis, because you WANT people to read it. When you post your points, be clear as to what you are trying to say, and be concise. Remember, if people don't read it, then you've failed your mission. Don't include posts that don't need to be there. Now. Part of the purpose is to convince people that someone is scum, another part of it is to check your suspicions by looking at the response of the person you just analyzed. When someone is under pressure, they give a lot of information about themselves out through their response. The stronger the pressure, the more information you will get. Because of this, you want to make your argument as strong as possible, and you cannot use words like "probably" or "maybe" when deciding if he's scum. Even if there are no doubts in your mind, don't voice them in your analysis. This will increase the pressure, and give you more of a reaction. Does their reaction confirm your suspicions? If so, continue to pressure. If not, depending on how sure you are, you might want to pressure a little longer, or lay off of it. After your analysis comes up, you can expect a response from the person you are accusing. Look carefully at the argument, and pick it apart, pointing out the fallacies with the defense. Whatever you do, DON'T get drawn into a long drawn out argument. Don't keep arguing the same point, move on to the next one and let the town decide who was right. Always keep in mind that they could be innocent, even if they look really scummy. If they start reacting in a an extremely town like fashion, don't tunnel them. Again, use the reaction as an extra piece of information and re-evaluate the situation. If you've made your case, and the town decided that it wasn't good enough, don't get in a fist fight over it. Wait, and keep a close eye on that person. If they are scum, the will slip up again, and this time you'll be there to catch them. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 02:07 Robellicose wrote: Kavdragon:I personally do not have a read on you at all. A lot of people are saying they read you as red. What do you believe in your posts contradicts this heavily? What is your long term plan for this game if you were to become mayor? I don't usually feel the pressure to explain my actions, but in this case I think it will help clear a few things up: (This is a response to a general sentiment that was voiced by Robe ^^) I've been talking to Ver, BC and RoL a lot over the past few games trying to improve my play. I started talking to Foolishness this game. Looking over many of the excellent town players, they all look at the setup and try to figure out what the mafia's strategy will be. I did the same thing. I saw a ton of new players, and a mafia with 4 KP. My immediate thought was that inactivity would be rampant among the newer players, and the mafia would have enough KP to kill of most, if not all the vocal people. With that in mind, I decided that the best course of action would be try to get the new players as involved as possible. To do this, I had to make it as easy as possible for them to get better. Sure, you can point them to another guide, but it's easier if it's in the thread. The players who are going out to read guides are not the problem. It's the players who are too lazy to read the guides that I'm trying to hook. It was my plan. It had problems, I see that now. I didn't anticipate the amount of spam that was thrown around. I didn't build flexability into my plan, to account for things that I should have known I couldn't see. Regardless, I think that the goal was sound. We NEED to get the new players on board with us, or we've already lost the game. That being said, I'll stop posting guides and try to contribute more to the thread now. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 07:37 aidnai wrote: EBWODP @ Kav: come at me bro You always think I'm scum, regardless. I have posted contributory stuff, I was even the first person to post analysis. I'm unfortunetly not as graced with words as Dr.H is, so he stomped all over me. I still think he's scum. This is my stance on Dr.H: He did a ton of really hyper agressive play at the beginning, and it put many townies off. Quite honestly, I think that this explains why noobs are voting for GMarshal. They don't want Dr.H. Dr.H defended himself saying that his plan was to cause havoc so that he could have more information to analyse. He said that the ends justify the means. This is wrong. If you knock out half the town by stomping on them, just to get better reads that half of the town is less likely to participate. He is increasing his proformance level at the cost of others. This is unacceptable in a situation where mafia can just kill him, and then we have a town with a net loss. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
My Thoughts on the Game First and foremost, the spam needs to come down. We need to be able to read through this thread to scum hunt, and the amount of spam is making it really hard to read. Obviously a good idea, right? So why is everyone still spamming? A few people on the top of my spam list are RedFF (For posting a lot of lists pointing at people, and asking tons of questions of people, but not actually contributing as much) Gmarshal (For posting more than is healthy. I know that you have a lot of things to say, but when you have that much to say you need to learn how to condense it. You don't have to reply to every single person when almost everyone is talking to you.) Dr.H (Not bad like RedFF, but in the similar vein as GMarshal, I think that you can condense what you are saying. If there are three people who say something scummy, wait a bit, then put your responses into the same post or something.) I don't think anyone is used to having 50 pages to analyse by day one. I'm certainly not. I've often been told that it's useless to analyse on day one, and I've disagreed with it before. As daunting a task as it is, I agree with Dr.H that there's plenty of material to get started on. Sure it won't be as reliable as the material that we will have by day 3/4, but there's no better time to start analyzing than NOW. If you wait, it won't happen, so I'm going to ask EVERYONE, even those who are bad at it, to try thier hand. By this time, the only people who don't have scum reads are scum. Take someone who you think is scummy, and analyse them. Right now my main concern will be inactive/lurker types, because they are the higher priority for lynching. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 07:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote: ^correct what else does it do "EVERYONE NEEDS TO SCUMHUNT RALLY AROUND MY GREAT IDEALS WHILE I CONTRIBUTE NOTHING" i remember that dudes name. Radfield! Read his posts in Salem Mafia! That's exactly what kav's doing rn Meta would really help your read. If you will remember, Salem was the first game i played. I watched it a ton because it was one of, if not aidnai's first games as well. I was interested. Radfield's posting was something that made me think he was town, because I was a noob at the game. After I learned that he was mafia, that became the number one scum tell for me. When I'm scum, I'm extremely careful not to post stuff like that. Call wifom all you want, but this is not how I play scum. I'm careful to avoid obvious scum tells like this. In the event that I am actually lynched, I hope everyone remembers my analysis of Dr.H, and the way that I predicted mafia would act. The next step after alienating new players, destroying the heath of the thread, and getting someone into the mayor seat is to remove the analysts. I believe that Dr.H is a good enough player to read me correctly, even if he is missing some of my meta. It has also been said that we shouldn't lynch veterans day one. I've held this position in, and out of game threads. Protact actually quoted my post a while ago where I was talking about how people expect veterans to play really well, when it's an unfair assessment of thier play. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 08:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you are my number one suspect and i am lynching you if i am elected. that is all. Well then. Best get cracking while I can, Eh? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Kenpachi Kenpachi has ten posts, non of which say anything, all but two are not even related to the game. This looks like scum to me, but Kenpachi looks like scum ususally. I know others have good meta on him, so I'd like to hear from you. He's not putting any effort into looking like town, and he's not acting like a frustrated townie. Based on what I know, he's following his usual town play. Useless. (That's not even being harsh. Take a look at his posts.) ilovejonn Ilovejonn has only five posts, one of which is somewhat informative: On April 11 2011 00:11 ilovejonn wrote: If I appear to be inactive, that's because I am really sick atm. I've read 10+ pages and right now GMarshal and Protactinium are top of my list for mayor. However as there is no voting thread yet for whatever reason :S, I'm going to stay in bed and rest until the thread is up and my voting is required. I also like Protact's posts a lot more than GM. Yes, GM is easy to read, but I agree with Protact that he isn't superbly great at analysis. Protact's each and every post was filled with so much content, meeting quality over quantity in my eyes, and gets to the point without beating around the bush. As a town leader (yes, I know his win-condition is not town) and an analyst, I would much more likely be in favor of Protact. I believe even by having him alive in the early game while he still feels like siding with town, he can create a much ideal environment for the town. At least his posts motivate me to play and post better. Also, sure if you think me being sick is an excuse, but I just wanted to get this out there in the case I really cannot post due to illness. I'm already trying my best to keep up with this thread by at least posting Day 1. This one post is town oriented. Yes, I disagree with his voting protact, but he brings new reasons for it, and they are protown reasons. Not much to make a read off of, but I would say that he looks town. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
While I started work on inactives, it appears that I will be the first to be lynched. As such, and inactive will not be lynched. So my priorities have changed to getting out analysis on players that I have the scummiest reads from. RedFF is first up. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 09:23 DarthThienAn wrote: DrH, the only problem I have with you being mayor is that you're guaranteeing us no accountability. The "I do what I want" attitude as mayor won't help us win the game. Sure, you dodge the influence of the mafia, but that also means you're relying solely on yourself to win the game... This. Did you learn ANYTHING from salem, Dr.H? We relied on a few and it killed us. This has been brought up time and time again. We cannot rely on a few people, you have to get the town involved. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Not a good idea to vote for the person who is set on lynching you unless you want to die. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 09:33 Conversion wrote: I don't like DocH. ##vote DoctorHelvetica Scum. >  | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 09:47 GMarshal wrote: I'm torn between AirbladeOrange, OriginalName, M0nster and whatever the trolls name is. Probably AO though, on my gut, as some player around here are so fond of saying I'd lynch OriginalName over Airblade. Day one reads are hard, so lynching the person who is less active is a good idea. My take, anyways. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 11 2011 03:46 redFF wrote: Protactinium is the only person that has impressed me so far and the only person i can tell is not scum, that said, votes are subject to change. This is a sentiment that RedFF takes very quickly. He trusts that Protact is town right from the get go. That is NOT a townie reaction, nor is a noob reaction. A new player who is townie would be quick to question things like this, and while he may eventually come to the same conclusion, there's no way that a townie would reach certainty this quickly. His certainty betrays hidden knowledge, knowledge that only scum would have. On April 11 2011 03:51 redFF wrote: Yeah Doch seems to be posting a lot without really saying much, whilst being overly aggressive to people with little reasoning. FOS: DoctorHelvetica Up to this point (and beyond for a while) he has displayed the same characteristics that he is condemning Dr.H for. Your own FoS back onto you. You are trying to look like you are contributing, and it's not working. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 04:56 redFF wrote: I compiled a little list on inactives/lurkers Metalface-no posts since sign up Ream- no posts since game started Lattrommi-is he even playing??? was signed up by someone else and hasn't posted TranceStorm- lurking hardcore lemonwalrus- hasnt posted since day 1 began milkyst- no posts since sign up The_Roist- just posted above me for the first time XD Jaminz- no post since sign up DarthThienAn- no posts since day 1 M0nsterChef- hasn't posted since day 1, has 14 posts so could just not play. Serejai- no posts since sign up He complies a list of inactives, but it's early in the day. No one needs to see the inactives that early. Another of many ploys to look like he's contributing. A few posts later he complains about everyone ignoring this out of place list, and posts it again. It's funny, because this fits Ver's profiling for a new scum player almost exactly. Right down to the out of place list. (See: Ver's analysis of XXX) On April 11 2011 05:11 redFF wrote: So if DrH gets hit night one we have a pretty good mafia list. So if [redFF] flip scum we have a pretty good innocent list. It's an odd thing to say when you've FoS'd him not too long ago. Why would you guess that mafia would shoot someone who is scum? On April 11 2011 05:38 redFF wrote: btw this is fun as fuck and i will be playing tl mafia for quite a while ^^ I actually consider this a scum slip. Mafia have the funnest time day one. Townies are usually interested, but not really having fun till they start getting near the lynch deadline. But perhaps that's just me. + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 06:38 redFF wrote: List of inactives Metalface-no posts since sign up Ream- no posts since game started Lattrommi-is he even playing??? was signed up by someone else and hasn't posted TranceStorm- lurking hardcore lemonwalrus- hasnt posted since day 1 began milkyst- no posts since sign up The_Roist- just posted above me for the first time XD Jaminz- no post since sign up DarthThienAn- no posts since day 1 M0nsterChef- hasn't posted since day 1, has 14 posts so could just not play. Serejai- no posts since sign up Thin we have found a newbie mafia? The list returns! Still out of place. Also, lol at his guess that the mafia are all found in that. He quotes this again to bring attention to the list yet again, and to FoS M0nster. He still hasn't given any opinions. He's tunneling this inactive list, and bringing it up over and over without even bothering to update it. This reaks of scum. He later slightly modifies his plan to tunnel those mostly inactive people that voted for Gmarshal. Then we have this contradiction pointed out by Coag. Refer to my guide if you don't get why this is scummy. On April 11 2011 22:06 redFF wrote: If ON flips red it confirms basically everyone thought of as red so far as red. If he flips green(highly unlikely) Then it clears a shit ton of people and we have a few people who would look very red, myself included. I think ON is the lynch which would give us the most information, regardless of how he flips. On April 12 2011 07:58 redFF wrote: I get your point about spamming, i will try to tone it down. Sorry if I'm spamming a lot, just trying to learn/catch scum. That said, this post doesn't really have any content. Agrees with my sentiment that there should be less spam, and then proceeds to post more frequently than he has all game. Wtf mate? RedFF has been tunneling, spamming, and not contributed to the thread yet. He has posted that he thinks that Protact and dr.H are good candidates, but simply mirrors others arguments when he gives his reasons. He has yet to really come up with any good reasoning that is his own. He fits a clear pattern for new scum. RedFF is RedFF | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
DR.H's play has been detrimental to the town. He is Scum. DR.H said he would only run for mayor if he was mafia. He is Scum. DR.H said that the mayor was a stupid role, and he wished it wasn't here. He is scum. And this: On April 12 2011 10:38 Coagulation wrote: JUST SAYING FOR ALL YOU NEWBS GOING "LOL DOCH IS PLAYING PRO TOWN" The mafia has done a wonderful job of manipulating town. First, take out one of the better candidates for mayor my arguing him into the ground, and calling him scum. Next stomp on townies so they just sheep to someone who isn't Dr.H. Next, point out how everyone is sheeping GMarshal, and get everyone to vote Dr.H. Last, lynch the guy who calls Dr.H scum. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On April 12 2011 11:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote: green ! = correct I completely agree. However, my reputation as a scum hunter, when combined with the fact that I'm green adds weight to what I was saying earlier, because I am freed from any suspicion. Green = Right intentions. My scum reads right now are Dr.H Protactinium RedFF (Haven't read his defense yet, but I'll try to update this based off of that.) Chaoser (I haven't done analysis on him, so this is just a read.) Oh, and as far as my conspiracy theories go, I don't think that any of them are fully right. I think that at the very least parts of them are. A lot of the time things will just fall into the mafia's hands, and they don't actually try to do them. My reads/analysis on Protact and Dr.H stand. | ||
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