EPT"annul you ask for the post and then you say you dont want it...."
I was typing the post as you replied. didn't see you admit to the mistake till i hit send.
Insane Mafia 2 - Page 6
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
I was typing the post as you replied. didn't see you admit to the mistake till i hit send. | ||
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I'd like to point out that i've gotten up and now i'm posting. That doesn't mean that when i finished posting i went inactive - it meant i was sleeping. Surprisingly I need to make that clear to some people so they don't accuse me… Anyway from what I've gleaned there's no vote tonight. Instead we have to figure out if we need to medic anyone and Jackal claims to be a vig with a shot aimed tonight. Because Jackal has been insisting he's going to shoot tonight and given that I feel he may shoot me i'm going to disclose my item so that town knows what it is if i die: From: LSB Banking Subject: Role PM Part 2 Date: 3/25/11 11:04 You got an Item! Mood Ring- Hmmmm, a mood ring? You can use the Mood ring to investigate another player’s alignment during the night. That's the entirety of my stupid item. I mean yes a DT check is pro town but I've seen an exploding potato and a stun gun with multiple abilities so i feel pretty annoyed that i'm a detective that probably won't get to detect... Btw. the reason the subject is part 2 is that the first PM linked to quicktopics - the other IG players can confirm this for all you paranoids out there. Now to begin some assessment. It's been outed (if not confirmed) that the plans in place are: #1 Jackal and Coagulation are going to confirm each other somehow. #2 Lemon is assumed clear by Coagulation and Jackal seems to agree. #3 Assuming Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other then either annul or myself are scum Jackal also claims that he has a vig-style power or item. Knowing this mafia may wish to try and kill Jackal, Coag or both if one of them isnt mafia (or even if one is). Assuming we have 2 medics willing to cover both how are we going to coordinate that? Greens in the main thread cant PM!! And even then we may be covering a mafia... Now from the outset I have issues with this plan: On the assumption that both are alignment checking each other: If they use an item and are stolen from the use does not go through. If they use an ability and are nerfed the power does not go through. Assuming coags stun gun exists it does not have protection from being stolen and hence cant guarantee a non-nerf. Now i'm not of course saying that trying to confirm each other is a bad idea. Nor do I feel that trying this plan is bad. I'm saying that making the assumption that the plan will go through 100% and basing our behaviour around that is certainly a bad idea. An examination of all scenarios follow in the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + The plan goes through to perfection, no DT checks fail and the red have 2 KP. Coag isn't stolen from and his sun-gun prevents his death. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Tack is shot and all other players are Green. Scum can shoot whomever they wish and so long as they don't manage to kill 4 people: town wins the IG Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Coag/Jack, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Annul/Tack Scum use their KP to shoot Jackal. (Assume coag uses stun-gun) We now have no idea who is scum is as Coag can't be cleared. 3-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Jackal/Coag, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Tack/Annul Scum doesn't need to bother with KP. We're now in a position where we want to lynch a town. If he is lynched the mafia kill the 2 greens the next night. Mafia wins. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. The above examples detail the possible plays for each of us being the scum. In 4 of 5 cases a shot by a pro-town vig causes confusion and does not lead to a pro-town conclusion. If you read through the scenarios of the plan going perfectly depending on who is red: 1. The IG is won by green 2. The IG is won by red 3. There is a 3-man draw 4. There is a 2-man draw 5. There is a 2-man draw At best in the 4 scenarios (we only win for sure in 1) we have a draw between 2 people. As I understand it the first person to die will automatically win the IG for the other guy even if he dies as well. So if the first person to die is green then red team get the items whether or not the red player dies. In this case we have less information then red as red will know which player is town. We have to lynch in this scenario because if it goes to night then red can shoot first thing and auto-win the IG. So we have to lynch on a 50/50 chance... And remember this is all dependent on the plan going perfectly. Items can be stolen. Abilities can be nerfed. DTs can be framed. Drivers can throw abilities off. People in the IG can be tactically shot. The Godfather passes DT tests. So I repeat a plan that goes to perfection has a 1 in 5 win rate. And there's almost no chance this will go to perfection... All things considered I think it is important we have no town vig shots into the IG. I think I've made it very clear why this is important. Please make your agreement loud and clamorous. | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 05:24. Posts 989 I'll be honest and fair. Out of Tackster Annul and Darm 2 are scum. I picked Tack simply because I saw him as the easiest lynch. If you want to lynch darm I'm cool with that as well. The longer this has gone on the more I think annul is the town out of those 3. It is a numbers game. Some people seem to be following the plan put in place by the trio. I want to point out that jackal claimed he didn't have a reason to think I was the scummiest only the EASIEST LYNCH. Well apart from the fact that that has been proven false Jackals plan gives no reason as to why I'm scummier than Annul. In fact as he picked me for reasons that dont have to do with scum then annul was the one FOSsed before me and is therefore scummier. That's just a point on the strategy employed being stupid. I believe and I've said it before Annul has actually quite towny reads. I mentioned it before when the debate ended on whether or not Bum should be mayor: Tackster Ireland. March 25 2011 14:47. Posts 107 My 10 cents here - alot of that arguing with annul was me, i was trying to explain to him the flaws i saw anyway. But the important thing is he seems pro-town and is fighting for his case right or wrong. I mentioned he was confirmed, etc. I was exaggerating of course, but he may yet be town. Possibly we should try and lynch scum over annoyances? You realise you are suggesting we lynch a player in the mini-game right? Also annul made some pretty pro-town messages when he though he was getting shot: annul United States. March 27 2011 15:31. Posts 1571 and if you ARE town, you're fucking retarded and you probably just cost us the item game. On March 27 2011 15:29 annul wrote: are you actually public night vig? if so, i need to dump info quickly I also want to insert a message here @Annul. You claimed special 'secret' information from the PM circle. As was obvious you outed your PMs and there was absolutely no information that anything was going on except people were basing there opinions on what was going on in the thread anyway. Why keep a secret when a. There is no secret & b. It doesn't help town anyway... Lastly I was accused of behaving scummy by Kav. Kavdragon United States. March 27 2011 15:45. Posts 558 Tackster looks really scummy from those PM's if you ask me. Why would a townie claim? It seems much more likely that scum (can't be black anymore) would claim green, because they aren't thinking about the fact that everyone is passively claiming green in the item game. (Cause, you know...If you're not green...) Not working with Annul until he's "confirmed"? Wtf? That's not how it works! You PM people, and make plans so that you can analyse what they are doing! You don't ignore them, waiting for some magical confirmation that they are town! Why would a townie claim? Because I was making a point about trying to confirm each other were green. Your scumtell there is the fact that i mentioned a colour... Not really a scumtell... As you can see in Annul's posts of his PMs (and I can post them again if you want) I didn't refuse to talk to him or gauge his reactions. I simply stated that I'm not going to consider working together until we're both clear. It's a simple point - just because you clear someone doesn't mean you can trust working with them as they haven't cleared you and may be lying to you if they think you're scum. I would refer you to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=3974110 As I was beginning my first game of forum mafia I read up on the Tips forum pages and so on. As you can see that post describes my behaviour from a mafia POV. I simply decided it works for town as well. Am I scum for trying to learn from more experienced players? So as far as my reads go I know i'm green and I feel that annul is pretty green as well. That means that if I am correct either Jackal or Coag are scum and have gone with this entire plan just so that they could confuse things and end up in one of the pro-scum situations I mentioned earlier. If lemon is scum then he's having a really good first game. In case I die tonight I want to make this clear for tomorrow: ##FOS Jackal again. Even if he isn't scum he still is going to bollox up this game for town. I think no pro-town vigs should shoot tonight. I would LOVE medic protection tonight but I imagine I won't get any. As usual my afternoon begins when this thread dies down so I'll try and check in every so often and see where this whole mess is going... | ||
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As you can see from annuls outing of his posts I did indeed talk to him, assess his reads, give him some preemptory reads of mine and check him in general. | ||
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On March 28 2011 00:21 Jackal58 wrote: The secret he revealed is you let slip you received a PM from RoL. And as a first time player it's fascinating that you would be picking the "how to play scum tips" to determine how to play. The thread is 'Teamliquid Mafia Forum Game Rules and Tips'. Referenced on basically every mafia thread in this forum. The post regards scum players. I said that I thought this would work for green as well. Read thoroughly before you make accusations. As for the RoL post - as you can see I clearly explain it's a mistake on my part. As you should know because you sent me that PM: From: Jackal58 Subject: Item game Date: 3/26/11 05:33 So who is red and who is black? And btw that isn't the 'secret'. There is no secret. Annul was simply claiming that IG players were privy to mechanics the main thread weren't. As insanious pointed out quite well that argument only stands when the PM circle is comprised of only town. In this case we have a PM circle that can be leaked to black and red as well. | ||
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From: Jackal58 Subject: Item game Date: 3/26/11 05:33 So who is red and who is black? To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:41 The question of the day... lemon we have little to go with, darmo is back and i'm catching up on his meta, coag, you and annul are the ones i have opinions on. Why should I trust you? Any thoughts? From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:42 Somebody hasn't read the thread. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:42 catching up on it now From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:43 You're not going to like me man. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 13:23 Insane <- Mafia is definitely where you belong Just got to your utterly unproven, unresearched undefended plan to auto-win the IG on your word alone... Still some pages to go you mad, mad man From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 13:25 You scum. Dunno if it's black or red but you scum. To: Jackal58 Subject: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:14 OK Guys there is obviously a circling of wagons going on here... I'm PMing this to all mini-game players with a pearl of wisdom: THERE IS SCUM IN THE MINI-GAME We each need to rely on our OWN opinions and we need to realise that strategy is going to win the mini-game not dumb luck. So I expect everybody in the mini-game to reply to this PM and evaluate me using my bloody opinion as well... 2 of us are mafia and they will be the one's sowing dissent and FOSsing the others. We need to work out our Steal/Defend/Use strategy, we need to try and assess item powers and get scum to slip. If you're all going to genuflect to Jackal veteran status and ignore me this is going to auto-fail for town. Also apart from Jackal and Coagulation I don't really see many IG related posts. The mayorship is seems basically decided, right now the only 2 worries are how will we handle this mini-game and how will we out the scum. Yours Expectantly, A backstabbed green From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:21 If you're green Darm and annul are scum. It's not a bad thing to die for 2 scum. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:27 Which i'm perfectly willing to do but i do have questions: 1 - how do i know you aren't scum? 2 - how do you know that coag and annul are then clear? 3 - do you have any strategy suggestions for the mini-game or are you just interested in playing russian roulette with no plan? After that I got no reply from jackal. And is plainly visible there was 0 scumhunting on his part... | ||
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On March 28 2011 00:36 chaoser wrote: I call bullshit on the whole "it was a mistake on my part I mixed them up". No fucking way is RoL anywhere close to Jackal. Not to mention he's not in the item game. I bet you looked at your PM box, wrote the first name at the top cause you weren't looking too carefully to make up a lie and it just happened to be RoL. If someone shoots Tack/we decide to lynch him tomorrow and he flips red, we gotta take a look RoL. This unfortunately is the point where I do in fact have to claim a mistake based on the fact it's my first game. Early on RoL started making claims that we should elect him, he would scum hunt all the scum to death, his reads are amazing, blah blah blah Then Jackal came up with his plan that fits in exactly with RoL's behaviour. So I accidentally confused the two as they were playing similarly. Anyway the whole point behind my mentioning the PM for RoL/Jackal is that he asked the same question of me (same wording and everything) as Annul. For that reason I asked annul whether he received/sent that message to Jackal(who i called RoL) to check if they were in cahoots. Go check annuls posts -he basically states he asked Jackal that who seeming to like it, used it on other IG players... | ||
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LSB would it be ok if I publish a screenshot of my inbox to prove a mistake i made? It contains no other information relevant to the game - it only shows I have been exclusively PMing IG players hopefully he says yes and this stupid argument can be put to sleep. | ||
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If I did make a mistake and use the wrong name why is it more likely that I used a name from another PM and not a name from the main thread? When I started all your names looked like the similar the non-referenced gibberish all over the internet. Now that the game has gotten further I can finally remember (some) of the names of people in this forum. | ||
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When I started all your names looked like the usual non-referenced gibberish all over the internet Ya - i said it  | ||
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I confirm I haven't broken any rules....yet | ||
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My item allows me to at any time force all scum players to reveal their roles to me via PMs. I implement it now... | ||
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On March 28 2011 01:44 Jackal58 wrote: Because you're scum. You claim to be new. You're not new. You're a smurf. Who are you Tack? Ver again??? LSB made if fairly clear in the OP he wanted some smurfs. He wanted smurfs that told him who they were. You're one of them. You are most assuredly no noob. It's also interesting you so easily dismiss your item. A mood ring. Used to check alignments Funny how the black team got a similar item. Who needs DT's if there is only one scum faction? Town. Who needs DTs if there are 2 scum factions? Everybody. Interesting how darm was the CEO of the black faction. Interesting he had a DT item. You're the GF aren't you Tack? You are certainly no noob. You most assuredly didn't get confused because you don't know anybody's names. Who are you Tack? Foolishness? Ver? Qatol? Because you aren't a noob.. ROFL - you got me. I'm the most experienced mafia player to ever grace this fair forum. Im a smurf of a hugely powerful player so immense you can't begin to imagine him. I am in fact TL incarnate. I am JaeDong playing mafia on the forums... I've also confirmed myself to be deconduo's room mate which he went along with... Deconduo lives with these amazing mafia players and has never ever said... | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD USA. March 28 2011 02:07. Posts 3351 Jackal, why do you care if he is a smurf? It's completely a non issue. Do not be putting down my compliment dog. i'm a smurf of a playa with skillz | ||
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And lastly we rarely have dinner at the same time. | ||
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If i'm still alive tomorrow there's going to be a lot of posting needs doing! | ||
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On March 28 2011 10:38 tnkted wrote: well ken you have nothing to worry about if you're SCUM My guesses: I think item game players are gonna take a hit tonight. Jackal and coag and lemon are all dead. Assuming nobody protects anyone from the item game, and assuming that black and red all fire into it, the item game should end tonight or tomarrow, depending on who we lynch. We just have to be sure who the red is. Erm... Jackal and coag and lemon are all dead... where did you get that? I mean sure one of them is red but chances are the red will survive... If the other 2 are killed scum is obvious. That's my POV btw. Also I can't sleep. Day 2 come quick so i can go to bed goddamit | ||
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