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On January 12 2011 09:04 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 09:01 HaploPaithan wrote:On January 12 2011 08:51 LSB wrote:On January 12 2011 08:46 HaploPaithan wrote:
I just don't think we should punish a player for not following the LSB's plan when we had no agreement to follow the plan. Kenpachi apparently felt that there was a more important role to take before JOAT. It would seem that he took Copycat. Copycat is a pretty good role for both scum and townies to have. I don't really fault him for taking it.
If we're lucky, a lower pick that was not following the plan tried to pick up JOAT. What Kenpachi did was drastically anti-town. It was calculated First Kenpachi denied the JOAT role because everyone else thought he took JOAT. We just lost a huge role Secondly it denied the Copy cat role, something the town could have used. If Jackel58 still had the copy-cat role, we could lynch aidnai without worrying about his role. However when some random person decides to hide a red role, we can't trust him. Thirdly, no townie would take the Copy Cat role, because we already put the copycat role in Jackel58's hands. You are acting like people agreed with your plan. Like I already said, a lot of people did not. You can't treat it as if people were doing it. He had no guarantee that Jackel58 was going to take Copycat. While I don't agree with taking Copycat over JOAT, it doesn't make him scum. It seems likely that he did take copycat, however he hasn't actually said that he did. We could also be losing a powerful role, if we were to kill Kenpachi so early. He has to have something else good if he wasn't CPR or Copycat. I think we should be watching Kenpachi, but not lynching him day 1. He could still be of great use to us. Simple question. You are draft pick 11. Did you consider taking JOAT? Of course not, because you expected Kenpachi to take it. Likewise, we expected deconduo to take CPR doc, so no one took it. And Jackel58 was expected to take Copycat. If he has something good, well, he can claim and get protection. But would you lynch him if all he has is Copycat? unvote
Vote: Kenpachi I didn't take JOAT because I was pick 11. I figured someone in the t10 would have taken it by now. If i were pick 3. I would have considered it. Each player might value certain roles higher than others.
If he is copycat, I still don't want to kill him today. When day 2 starts, we will know what role he has or what roles he could potentially have and then make a decision from there.
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On January 12 2011 09:09 LSB wrote:Are you bulletproof?
oh right. if i was bulletproof, i wouldnt die.. -______-
nope.
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On January 12 2011 09:10 HaploPaithan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 09:04 LSB wrote:On January 12 2011 09:01 HaploPaithan wrote:On January 12 2011 08:51 LSB wrote:On January 12 2011 08:46 HaploPaithan wrote:
I just don't think we should punish a player for not following the LSB's plan when we had no agreement to follow the plan. Kenpachi apparently felt that there was a more important role to take before JOAT. It would seem that he took Copycat. Copycat is a pretty good role for both scum and townies to have. I don't really fault him for taking it.
If we're lucky, a lower pick that was not following the plan tried to pick up JOAT. What Kenpachi did was drastically anti-town. It was calculated First Kenpachi denied the JOAT role because everyone else thought he took JOAT. We just lost a huge role Secondly it denied the Copy cat role, something the town could have used. If Jackel58 still had the copy-cat role, we could lynch aidnai without worrying about his role. However when some random person decides to hide a red role, we can't trust him. Thirdly, no townie would take the Copy Cat role, because we already put the copycat role in Jackel58's hands. You are acting like people agreed with your plan. Like I already said, a lot of people did not. You can't treat it as if people were doing it. He had no guarantee that Jackel58 was going to take Copycat. While I don't agree with taking Copycat over JOAT, it doesn't make him scum. It seems likely that he did take copycat, however he hasn't actually said that he did. We could also be losing a powerful role, if we were to kill Kenpachi so early. He has to have something else good if he wasn't CPR or Copycat. I think we should be watching Kenpachi, but not lynching him day 1. He could still be of great use to us. Simple question. You are draft pick 11. Did you consider taking JOAT? Of course not, because you expected Kenpachi to take it. Likewise, we expected deconduo to take CPR doc, so no one took it. And Jackel58 was expected to take Copycat. If he has something good, well, he can claim and get protection. But would you lynch him if all he has is Copycat? unvote
Vote: Kenpachi I didn't take JOAT because I was pick 11. I figured someone in the t10 would have taken it by now. If i were pick 3. I would have considered it. Each player might value certain roles higher than others. If he is copycat, I still don't want to kill him today. When day 2 starts, we will know what role he has or what roles he could potentially have and then make a decision from there.
Exactly. If you didn't take it, why should anyone else take it?
Pick three was assigned Vig. It's far better for the town if he picks vig so he should have taken it.
Although he claimed he wasn't, assume Kenpachi was Copycat. Why wouldn't you kill him if he was copycat? The person right underneath him would be picking it, so there would be no benefit to the town if he chose copycat. He did it under anti-town motivations
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We're running out of time to do this, but I would like to present a lynch target based on believing they are scum, rather than based on wanting information.
My proposed lynch is Amber[light]. Here is my case.
The original post from Amber that caught my attention:
On January 09 2011 05:36 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Just noting I did pick a random number, and everyone should do the same. Though I don't believe the role selection process (post-draft) should be unveiled to the entire town.
More importantly: Play the role you get. If you pout because you got townie and don't participate I will personally make your mafia-playing life a living hell and accuse you EVERY game in the future just because I like to be frustrating. It's actually more important for the town to fool the mafia and pick roles to limit their KP per night. Of course we cant discuss how this should go about because there are more roles in this game than players, so it would be too easy. The goal of this process should be to make the mafia as vanilla as possible, not to ensure every player gets a role they want.
GL in the draft...
This struck me as a possible scum post because of the tone and nature of the advice. Others may agree/disagree, and I can't explain it fully, so I'll just let you look and decide yourself. However, the other two posts below are much better evidence.
On January 10 2011 22:32 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think looking into the draft numbers might be a lost cause. Don't forget that it would be in the best interest of the mafia to follow the plan. This ensures that they receive a role. I wouldn't be surprised if the more unique combination (higher ups) are mafia, but to be honest that's good player strategy to achieve a unique combination that throws them up to the top. People who have double are _less_ likely to be mafia, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't put down the same numbers to alleviate some suspicion.
The draft process was too transparent, so infiltration by the mafia is highly likely.
In this post, Amber is spouting a mix of nonsense and obvious truth.
The nonsense:
-Don't forget that it would be in the best interest of the mafia to follow the plan. This ensures that they receive a role.
Actually, if town follows the plan, then mafia are free to cherry pick any roles that are further down the list than their own and still be assured of a role.
-The draft process was too transparent, so infiltration by the mafia is highly likely.
Transparent? Infiltration? wtf are you talking about, people picked numbers and pmed them to Ace.
Obvious:
- but to be honest that's good player strategy to achieve a unique combination that throws them up to the top. Duh.
- People who have double are _less_ likely to be mafia, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't put down the same numbers to alleviate some suspicion. Duh, and this doesn't actually say anything one way or another.
I honestly don't see any reason for posting something like this other than
1) avoiding modkill AND
2) wanting to not look scummy
On January 11 2011 22:20 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think you should use your ability as a NK vs a saver ability. Think about the chances of you saving someone vs killing someone. Your ability has better usage for town KP when we want to snipe mafia members, or to ensure their death.
I don't think LoR should be lynched. It's obvious who should be lynched, as we don't have any conclusive evidence of their role choice or the choice of another players: Kenpachi & Barundar
He (Kenpachi) is playing scummy and defensive, which isn't all of a shock from his normal play. Chances are he probably is the copy cat. We have to weigh the possibilities that he's actually is the copy cat. Do we want him to have that power activated? I think since we've wasted time cornering the possible copy cat allowing him to obtain a usage for his role would be wasteful as he's going to be a sure-fire target for night 1, granted we accidentally list a power role today. Do we also want that power role in the hands of a mafia member?
Mostly another potent mix of nonsense and obvious stuff, so I bolded everything else in this post.
How did Amber already seem to pick out that kenpachi is probably CC? Seems pretty smart, especially compared to the rest of the post (suggesting CPR doc to kill people instead of save, you seriously think we needed you to tell us?)
Also highly troubling here is the fact that in the prior post, Amber says mafia should follow the plan for their own good, but in this post he says kenpachi and barundar are the obvious lynch targets because they can't prove they followed the plan!
If you don't believe your current lynch target is scum, don't lynch them and consider amber please.
##Vote Amber[light]
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The person right below him wouldn't have been taking it. Ken was pick 2. CC was 5. That leaves at least 2+ potential scum the chance to take it. Factor in that there is a decent possibility that pick 5 won't take it either. Scum could have taken it at an even lower pick.
What advantage do we gain by killing him today as opposed to tomorrow? I'd rather learn about the traitor threat today than deal with Kenpachi.
You just keep talking as if your plan was followed. If people didn't want scum to know where each power role was, they wouldn't have picked straight off your list. It is pretty obvious that people valued having the role positions be unknown.
Lastly he claims to not be CC. Which again means he has to have a good ability. We don't want to kill him yet.
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No. your reasoning is off on the first one. Its transparent because if mafia doesnt get the role that they want, they can simply snipe those above them.
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ken you're mixing up role assignment and drafting. Amber was talking about mafia infiltrating the draft, not the roles.
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On January 12 2011 09:37 aidnai wrote:
ken you're mixing up role assignment and drafting. Amber was talking about mafia infiltrating the draft, not the roles.
uhh was he referring to LSB's plan? otherwise i dont understand what hes saying o_O
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On January 12 2011 09:39 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 09:37 aidnai wrote:
ken you're mixing up role assignment and drafting. Amber was talking about mafia infiltrating the draft, not the roles. uhh was he referring to LSB's plan? otherwise i dont understand what hes saying o_O
I think he was referring to the plan on how to pick your 2 numbers to get an assigned spot.
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This isn't really the most important part of the analysis, but he clearly says
I think looking into the draft numbers might be a lost cause
and wraps up with
The draft process was too transparent, so infiltration by the mafia is highly likely
He is most definitely saying that the draft process was infiltrated, which as I pointed out is just him spouting nonsense for no other reason than to post something and try not to look scummy.
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On January 12 2011 09:07 LayOffRage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 04:36 Fishball wrote:On January 12 2011 04:28 Barundar wrote:Ah thats why you all want to kill him? Honestly don't see why he is scum just beceause he tells us about a traitor further up the draft, and accuses fishball. But hey, I'm not exactly a RoL expert...  I mean, this post alone should ring a bell. LoR only has 48 posts, and is an "experienced" player huh. On January 11 2011 22:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Heading off to work and won't be back tonight, but LoR is the safest lynch target for today. Out of myself, fishball and him we are most likely the three most experienced players, and I know i'm town, which means at least one of fishball and him is most likely red. Out of those two, LoR has given the most reasons as why he is most likely a better lynch target.
But LoR being RoL has nothing to do with "us" wanting to kill him. Right now, only Bum and me have stated our reasons why we should lynch LoR. The majority is jumping on the aidnai train. Meh, since everyone knows who I am already there is no advantage to me using this name anymore. If you want to kill me before I decide to do anything credible then do it. You have all seen how I play in normal games. I will do analysis and you can try to find holes if you want and I will argue and find candidates. Since my AKA isn't hitting I will explain my reasoning in full detail. I figured if I did this earlier on it would let off that I was smurfing but since 90% of the game already knows its fine. deconduo Kenpachi kitaman27 Barundar Jackal58 Fishball Amber[Light] CubEdIn these are the players ahead of me in the draft list. One of them IS the traitor. Out of them here is how I will break it down. Kenpachi, Deconduo, Kitaman, Barndar. jackal58 and to a lessor extent cubedln are new guys and if you have the option to choose a role, traitor a non power role definitely isn't high on that list for new guys. Its really hard to play and I was looking for a fun challenge. I knew it would be harder to take the hit and get converted if I wasn't on my normal account so I was going to have to try even harder. I will also say that the above mentioned players aren't generally too crazy of people like what you would expect Chezinu to do. If Chezinu was on that list and even pandain I wouldn't feel confident calling fishball as the traitor. Now for the last two we just have Amber[LighT] and Fishball. Amber is more of a linear player as well not too crazy and if hes town he would choose a powerful town role imo. Fishball however I think is a very likely pick for the person who stole my traitor role. Fishball uses a variety of play styles to avoid establishing any pattern of play, he also never takes games fully serious so he is inherently a very difficult person to read. Fishball also blatantly said he wasn't going to follow the plan the town had been considering. If he was town aligned he probably knew he could pick the traitor role and the odds of someone else picking it were extremely low, especially high up on the draft order. Unfortunately for him I chose to pick it too which meant I narrowed the traitor down to 8 players whose play styles I was familiar with and could make an assessment call on it. If I actually got the traitor role the last thing I would of done was claim that I didn't get the role. It would lead to the exact wifom shit that is happening now of if I am lying and really got it or not and might confuse people for a little while. While if I just played chaotically and did faulty huge analysis I would likely screw with the town and draw a hit for attempting to be productive. So I think Fishball has to be the traitor. If you want to kill me to prove that I am being true feel free to do it. But everyone in this game knows that I could be useful if I was left alive and that they are taking care of the mafia's work.
Oh, RoL. I assume you've read my other post, so I won't repeat myself here. Think from my position. Do you not agree that the motives, logic, and explanation makes sense? Let's say we swap positions, what plan would you propose? I dare say very similar to what Bum and I have.
Assuming you're not lying. Seems like what you're trying to pin me with, is based on player profiling. You analyze a list of players, then take your best shot on regarding who you think is the Traitor. But seems like there is some contradiction on what you think about me and your conclusion; You say I'm difficult to read, yet you've read me. I know you didn't say impossible, but you know what I'm getting at. Overall, it almost seems like you've subconsciously locked on me from the get-go just by reading your analysis above. How much do you know about the others? How much do you really know about me?
Despite my screwing around, I did try and have gotten the ball rolling, and all my real arguments have always had Town in its best interest. Even something as short as "Sup Mafia" in reply to Divinek, isn't exactly something random from me and I actually mean it. To be fair, I'd say Mafia would want to get rid of me faster than you do.
On the other hand, I'm quite flattered. I never thought anyone would pay attention to me, and I actually try to stay out of the spot light for the majority of the time; I play the game, and GTFO. Just for the record, I do take games seriously, at least in most of the games I've played. Maybe too serious, hence why I've said earlier in the thread:
On January 11 2011 08:42 Fishball wrote:
I've been through enough games where it gets flat out frustrating.
I end this post with a flower.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vXQjR.jpg)
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On January 12 2011 09:09 LSB wrote:
Nice use of your 4k btw
On January 12 2011 09:09 Kenpachi wrote:
POST #4000
Haha, it's fine. I was never really into that kinda of thing.
I've been a long time TL member and I'm proud of myself. That's all that matters.
Maybe I'll do something when I hit 10k posts a decade later.
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On January 12 2011 09:31 aidnai wrote:We're running out of time to do this, but I would like to present a lynch target based on believing they are scum, rather than based on wanting information. My proposed lynch is Amber[light]. Here is my case. + Show Spoiler +The original post from Amber that caught my attention: On January 09 2011 05:36 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Just noting I did pick a random number, and everyone should do the same. Though I don't believe the role selection process (post-draft) should be unveiled to the entire town.
More importantly: Play the role you get. If you pout because you got townie and don't participate I will personally make your mafia-playing life a living hell and accuse you EVERY game in the future just because I like to be frustrating. It's actually more important for the town to fool the mafia and pick roles to limit their KP per night. Of course we cant discuss how this should go about because there are more roles in this game than players, so it would be too easy. The goal of this process should be to make the mafia as vanilla as possible, not to ensure every player gets a role they want.
GL in the draft... This struck me as a possible scum post because of the tone and nature of the advice. Others may agree/disagree, and I can't explain it fully, so I'll just let you look and decide yourself. However, the other two posts below are much better evidence. On January 10 2011 22:32 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think looking into the draft numbers might be a lost cause. Don't forget that it would be in the best interest of the mafia to follow the plan. This ensures that they receive a role. I wouldn't be surprised if the more unique combination (higher ups) are mafia, but to be honest that's good player strategy to achieve a unique combination that throws them up to the top. People who have double are _less_ likely to be mafia, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't put down the same numbers to alleviate some suspicion.
The draft process was too transparent, so infiltration by the mafia is highly likely. In this post, Amber is spouting a mix of nonsense and obvious truth. The nonsense: - Don't forget that it would be in the best interest of the mafia to follow the plan. This ensures that they receive a role. Actually, if town follows the plan, then mafia are free to cherry pick any roles that are further down the list than their own and still be assured of a role. - The draft process was too transparent, so infiltration by the mafia is highly likely. Transparent? Infiltration? wtf are you talking about, people picked numbers and pmed them to Ace. Obvious: - but to be honest that's good player strategy to achieve a unique combination that throws them up to the top. Duh. - People who have double are _less_ likely to be mafia, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't put down the same numbers to alleviate some suspicion. Duh, and this doesn't actually say anything one way or another. I honestly don't see any reason for posting something like this other than 1) avoiding modkill AND 2) wanting to not look scummy On January 11 2011 22:20 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I think you should use your ability as a NK vs a saver ability. Think about the chances of you saving someone vs killing someone. Your ability has better usage for town KP when we want to snipe mafia members, or to ensure their death.
I don't think LoR should be lynched. It's obvious who should be lynched, as we don't have any conclusive evidence of their role choice or the choice of another players: Kenpachi & Barundar
He (Kenpachi) is playing scummy and defensive, which isn't all of a shock from his normal play. Chances are he probably is the copy cat. We have to weigh the possibilities that he's actually is the copy cat. Do we want him to have that power activated? I think since we've wasted time cornering the possible copy cat allowing him to obtain a usage for his role would be wasteful as he's going to be a sure-fire target for night 1, granted we accidentally list a power role today. Do we also want that power role in the hands of a mafia member?
Mostly another potent mix of nonsense and obvious stuff, so I bolded everything else in this post. How did Amber already seem to pick out that kenpachi is probably CC? Seems pretty smart, especially compared to the rest of the post (suggesting CPR doc to kill people instead of save, you seriously think we needed you to tell us?) Also highly troubling here is the fact that in the prior post, Amber says mafia should follow the plan for their own good, but in this post he says kenpachi and barundar are the obvious lynch targets because they can't prove they followed the plan! If you don't believe your current lynch target is scum, don't lynch them and consider amber please. ##Vote Amber[light]
No, I haven't read your case and I won't bother reading it.
So basically what you're attempting to do, is to start a brand new lynch train, with voting ending in 3 hours. We already have few decent candidates, yet Town is reluctant to pull the trigger. Still, you want to stir it up some more.
Do you realize how bad this makes you look?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 12 2011 09:07 LayOffRage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 04:36 Fishball wrote:On January 12 2011 04:28 Barundar wrote:Ah thats why you all want to kill him? Honestly don't see why he is scum just beceause he tells us about a traitor further up the draft, and accuses fishball. But hey, I'm not exactly a RoL expert... I mean, this post alone should ring a bell. LoR only has 48 posts, and is an "experienced" player huh. On January 11 2011 22:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Heading off to work and won't be back tonight, but LoR is the safest lynch target for today. Out of myself, fishball and him we are most likely the three most experienced players, and I know i'm town, which means at least one of fishball and him is most likely red. Out of those two, LoR has given the most reasons as why he is most likely a better lynch target.
But LoR being RoL has nothing to do with "us" wanting to kill him. Right now, only Bum and me have stated our reasons why we should lynch LoR. The majority is jumping on the aidnai train. Meh, since everyone knows who I am already there is no advantage to me using this name anymore. If you want to kill me before I decide to do anything credible then do it. You have all seen how I play in normal games. I will do analysis and you can try to find holes if you want and I will argue and find candidates. Since my AKA isn't hitting I will explain my reasoning in full detail. I figured if I did this earlier on it would let off that I was smurfing but since 90% of the game already knows its fine. deconduo Kenpachi kitaman27 Barundar Jackal58 Fishball Amber[Light] CubEdIn these are the players ahead of me in the draft list. One of them IS the traitor. Out of them here is how I will break it down. Kenpachi, Deconduo, Kitaman, Barndar. jackal58 and to a lessor extent cubedln are new guys and if you have the option to choose a role, traitor a non power role definitely isn't high on that list for new guys. Its really hard to play and I was looking for a fun challenge. I knew it would be harder to take the hit and get converted if I wasn't on my normal account so I was going to have to try even harder. I will also say that the above mentioned players aren't generally too crazy of people like what you would expect Chezinu to do. If Chezinu was on that list and even pandain I wouldn't feel confident calling fishball as the traitor. Now for the last two we just have Amber[LighT] and Fishball. Amber is more of a linear player as well not too crazy and if hes town he would choose a powerful town role imo. Fishball however I think is a very likely pick for the person who stole my traitor role. Fishball uses a variety of play styles to avoid establishing any pattern of play, he also never takes games fully serious so he is inherently a very difficult person to read. Fishball also blatantly said he wasn't going to follow the plan the town had been considering. If he was town aligned he probably knew he could pick the traitor role and the odds of someone else picking it were extremely low, especially high up on the draft order. Unfortunately for him I chose to pick it too which meant I narrowed the traitor down to 8 players whose play styles I was familiar with and could make an assessment call on it. If I actually got the traitor role the last thing I would of done was claim that I didn't get the role. It would lead to the exact wifom shit that is happening now of if I am lying and really got it or not and might confuse people for a little while. While if I just played chaotically and did faulty huge analysis I would likely screw with the town and draw a hit for attempting to be productive. So I think Fishball has to be the traitor. If you want to kill me to prove that I am being true feel free to do it. But everyone in this game knows that I could be useful if I was left alive and that they are taking care of the mafia's work.
Your vote on Fishball indicates that you wish to lynch the traitor day one. With the copy cat in play, could you indicate how that is a protown decision?
Also, to those abstaining, since this is a majority lynch, not voting makes you appear even more scummy that usual. Please take a stand.
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We don't have "a few decent candidates". We have information lynches on people that no one seems to think are actually scum.
Kenpachi always looks scummy and responds poorly to pressure. Easy, bad lynch.
LOR's lynch is going to tell us that the traitor is in the top eight.
I don't think I'm a top candidate anymore, but again that's because of 'information'.
You want my analysis to be tossed aside, even though you haven't read it and "won't bother reading it."
Do you realize how bad this makes you look?
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On January 12 2011 10:25 Amber[LighT] wrote:
##vote: aidnai
I don't like the way aidnai is playing, but that is a huge OMGUS vote.
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##vote LayOffRage
because we really need a witch more at this point.
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On January 12 2011 10:25 Amber[LighT] wrote:
##vote: aidnai
Isn't an OMGUS usually scummy?
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On January 12 2011 09:08 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 09:05 Divinek wrote:
aw balls i really wanted to vote for aid and now he claims a role like that? wahhh
voting rage seems like a terrible idea if no one is helping him out to stay alive indirectly or otherwise...very unlikely for a mafia to go down so easily day 1. I mean yeah they hardly ever go down day 1 at all, but if they votes start piling up and shit doesnt start flying odds are we got the wrong chap.
oh and lookie me i got a role too, yay despite being so low.
hm didnt say anything about no voting for yourself so ill do that for now, id almost rather just throw a dart at the board for my vote since that's less inclined to slander or manipulation but i suppose it's better to actually end up with a meaningful one, until then
##vote divinek Sup Mafia.
im keeping this post saved away somewhere for whenever i do manage to flip and you're wrong :D
unless of course you're mafia which would be funnnnnnny, but i dont think you are...yet!
but i can see why you would think that i am tehehe eh eh hm.
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EPT
