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On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So...
I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE
That's an interesting claim.
I'm inclined to believe it -- Hesmyrr has been fairly active, has been stating clear positions on who should be lynched, and in general seems like a town-aligned player willing to put himself out there to risk hits (veteran-style play). In fact, after re-reading his posts I'm not entirely sure where the suspicions of Hesmyrr being scum have come from, and I'll be taking a closer look at those who were putting a lot of pressure on him.
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Then by that the day post shouldn't have said the Voltorb exploded in the distance - I know DH can't confirm that it exploded on Hesmyrr, but can you confirm that it didn't "explode in the distance" ?
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On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So...
I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE
Hmm. This is very interesting, because I was under the impression that Voltorbs couldn't be countered by Medics, and Shells. Perhaps this was a conception carried over from Salem though...
DrH, could you clarify?
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I would think that Voltorbs would fall under "night hits", but I could be wrong. Clarification would be nice.
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Since I got that cleared up, I must apologize and ask for replacement since my schedule isn't turning out to be great, and I am pretty sure I don't have time to make much analyses (warned you guys when I signed up xD). Hopefully there are several names on the replacement list so I hope my decision doesn't hurt the game that much- seeing RoL's name on the list definitely makes me feel better about this.
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A voltorb can not kill the cloyster if he still has his armor. It does not bypass medics. The voltorb "exploding in the distance" implies that his bomb went off on a target but did not kill them.
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Fair enough then I'm pretty sure Hesmyrr is town
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I'm just interested in why I'm still alive.
RoL was a preemptive hit. Meapak and Jcarlson were anti-Gabriel. Tree-Hugger is a vet.
On the other hand I supported Gabriel.
I'm now re-examining Gabriel. Now knowing that Jcarlson is town.
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Guys Gab voted on Hesmyrr who mafia already know is town (assuming Hesmyrr is telling the truth).
Kenpachi and Jcarl were on the right track, Ima vote for Gabriel for day 2.Darth you can vote for me, whatever.
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On December 14 2010 08:18 zeks wrote:I'm really wondering if this was truly random or some meaning to it. You're doing no one any good from RNGing these lists - (Voltorb on decon and tree.hugger really?)
ONE
and for someone who wanted me dead so badly I'd suspect you put me on the Rolecheck list (unless you think I'm the Godfather) or at least the Voltorb list. The whole purpose of you posting that was to try to wrongly dictate blue moves (very anti-town). Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 15:37 Hesmyrr wrote:
Okay, I do have to address before I go away. What is purpose of randomizing either of three actions again, when good PR can yield better results by intelligent decision making? Also wtf are you producing random results when you can simply tell the PR to use RNG to determine their results, which is FAR better method than using this "random" result of yours.
TWO
Although I think this is somewhat suspicious too as Hesmyrr was on the rolecheck list and immediately he tried to dismiss Gabriel's random lists' validity - perhaps he has something to hide.
Overall RNGing your actions is terrible so I don't know why its been suggested. Make informative decisions!
THREE
Listen to the sound arguments, protect our assets and punish the suspicious.
I am getting extremely suspicious of you Gabriel after looking at the people who died and their posts. Out of the initial 6 people who were threatening you, by far
FOUR
jcarlson and Meapak had the most compelling arguments, with Kenpachi being aggressive; quite a coincidence that they're all dead now.
In fact the other 3 that had voted for you:dinsmab: In your list you wanted to bomb him Eiii: Heavy retaliation against his accusation - and he's in your list of DT check (trying to suggest he's scum)
FIVE
Brocket: Don't remember what you've done to him but plenty of people trying to discredit him as a poster by calling him a fake-newb/smurf whatever - I actually think he's pretty logical in his posting.
SIX
Basically you've got rid of / placed suspicion on everyone who voted for you in the beginning.
SEVEN
On top of that right as you get heat you divert it all to me based on a couple of weak slip-ups and immediately you bandwagons gone. As you best put it:
Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please.
When Gabriel gets bandwagoned people say they have trouble understanding why and that the arguments were weak
EIGHT
When I get bandwagoned he becomes god and no one questions his accusations against me.
Fair enough I hope this gives you guys a reason to give this guy a vote tonight And should we vote in double lynch?
ONE:
There was no need to voltorb or RC you night one. Unfortunately I was not convincing enough to lynch you mostly because players have tendency to take the game personal. As an example Jcarlsoniv took it personal and every attack he made on me was wrong based (page 20).
The reason why we dont need a RC nor voltorb on you is because you should be lynched today without further add on.
TWO:
Hesmyrr is claiming now. That can still be a mafia ploy so i find interesting that he "just" claimed now. Ill just let it go for now. Hesmyrrs replacement is by no means cleared yet.
THREE:
Actually i know i am egocentric but my argument on you (page 19) is way ahead of tree.huggers argument on KEN because his was based on stupid/no content posting from Ken while mine was based on solid "mafia like posting" analysis on you. Again I dont have the name or appeal to seduce most of the mob at once, but rest assured Ver and Ace would be proud of my analysis on you under their belts.
However that is just a look back. Before my last line you are going to have a solid soundy argument to warrant that you vote to lynch yourself.
FOUR:
Jcarlsonivs argument was air as soon as i agreed on a single point on him. Read back and get the conversation. Jcarsoniv had nothing but an angry face after that and a few fos to eat himself (YOU sir are more... blah blah blah). (page 20)
Meapak_Ziphhs argument was so compelling that he ended up voting zeks alongside with me.
Kenpachi never had a chance to argue against me other than ("i dont like your vote on Infundibulum"). Again I was actually trying to prevent Ken to get lynched.
They are all dead. True. Do you feel like im the one pulling the strings just as the game starts? I just had to step foward and put myself in the line because "maybe" if i managed to defend i could actually win town trust (in a pm blocked town none the less) and at the same time, maybe, i can then kill people accusing me/not agreeing me so i can still be on the spotlight. No words.
FIVE:
Null read on Brocket for now. Interesting that you write about him as he votes me.
SIX:
This is false. I had the right read on Jcarsoniv and Ken. I never deflected back on Jcarsoniv against him. I let go Kenpachi quite easily after i pulled him. It was tree.hugger the one that came out of nowhere with Ken (and I addressed that Zeks was a better target). I even posted this in my analysis on you:
I believe defending myself is not really needed so im keeping my reasons to myself. On the lynch Gabriel bandwagon we *may* actually have some mafia but im inclined to believe most of them are town alligned people. I dont want to go further. In return i present a better case for active lynching. (page 19 on zeks)
SEVEN:
But hey: i took every hit on me. Each one of them. Like a warrior. Never diverted, I simply took them as a man and in the end there was no more than dust and the angry kids yielling "...I still dont like his posting... waaaa".
However this quote on me is indicative of MAFIA: you took a post directed to Eiis lack of consistance and placed it out of context. This is actually another big tell on you. (just another one). Post on Eiis is on page 24.
EIGHT:
This is again the most basic mafia defensive argument. You sir never got bandwagoned. There is a STRONG lead that your posts are mafia like style, nobody has actually questioned my argument. (read again my post) because it is actually plain logic. You are still the best target post analysis wise Zeks.
Now i just want to add thigs others already pointed(credit to them)
Tree.hugger on Zeks after Ken flipped.
On December 13 2010 06:46 tree.hugger wrote:(on convo with DarthThienAn): ...My problem is that I thought it was pretty obvious that Kenpachi was town BEFORE he flipped. Like I said, he posts like crap or "scummy" but "scummy" posting =/= scum. More often, it's townies who have contradictory posts and poor logic and all those other things (to an extent). It's better to look for people who say stuff like "This thread needs more analysis" and then they don't offer any of their own, or people who drop in and say "this person looks kinda scummy, this person looks kinda scummy" and then they disappear after that. For example, I voted for zeks day 1 because his posts are. for the most part, neutral/non-committal. The "kinda sorta maybe" posting is the kind that I'd consider scummy. Also people who say one thing in the thread, but then "change their minds" at the end of the day and vote for someone without a solid reason.... The whole reason why I voted for Kenpachi was because he was acting in exactly that manner. I certainly agree that Zeks is suspicious, but I didn't change my vote because there was no reason to prioritize one over the other. However, if yesterday he had said this...Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:23 zeks wrote:On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
AFAIK Zeks is also increadibly scummy in the other games he plays. What other games have I been scum in?
GGQ on Zeks
On December 13 2010 10:51 GGQ wrote:(previous convo with LSB) ...But I'll talk about something that seems really important to me that nobody is discussing: Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 12:38 zeks wrote:
I think I'm dead ?
Oceanic
meapak
Hesmyrr
infundibulum
Please take a good look at these people especially infun. Votes came off him way too easily and the people who voted for him got mobbed immediately for the dumbest reasons.
Cheers and at least u didnt get a blue Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 12:43 zeks wrote:after the FoS on me no one even bothered to post once to defend me  These posts are obviously intended to be seen as the point of view of a green who believes he's been lynched and is giving his last words. However, when I made my vote (which turned out to be the last one), the most recent votecount (which has since been edited to show the final votecount...) showed Kenpachi leading over zeks by two votes, and after that votecount there were three votes for Kenpachi and four for zeks. My vote was 40 minutes before zeks' "I'm dead" post, which gives him plenty of time to count the votes and add some small numbers together and see that Kenpachi was getting lynched, not him. (There is the fact that KtheZ voted zeks twice because he forgot to 'unvote' the first time, but even then the vote would be a tie and Kenpachi would still have been lynched). I have a hard time believing that zeks could miscount the votes so badly with his life on the line. I think these posts really force us to polarize our view on zeks.
You either believe that he's an innocent pikachu who fails at simple math, or that he's confirmed TR because no town role would fake those posts. I strongly feel that he's scum.
Absolutely true. GGQ picked it right there: He was the last voter and a townie would have never ever missed he is NOT the one getting lynched and coming out with the ("good im not blue" line) or that "suspicious list". Note that im not on the list!
NEW EVIDENCE:
On December 11 2010 23:36 LSB wrote:
People who haven't posted yet. (To Be Modkilled)
2. BrownBear
6. DarthThienAn
7. StormTemplar
12. ghrur
....
(plus other lists)
I'm supporting the Kenpachi lynch because I don't like how quickly Jcarlsoniv turned it into a bandwagon.
On December 12 2010 05:00 zeks wrote:
...(trying hard to come and answer my points)...
Gabriel querys zeks:
Why did you actually change your vote without a "fair inactive list" just as you said you would do?
I actually voted Stormtemplar after LSB made the inactive list. What I meant by "fair" was to have the list made after the first day to give people a chance to post if they haven't.
On December 11 2010 05:31 zeks wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Stormtemplar
Is it me or that is just a LIE? i dont know how I (we) didnt note that you actually voted stormtemplar before LSB lists appeared.
Here, take your brick on the face.
TL;DR
Post contains:
- A lot of ego.
- A lot of logic bashing, actually is quite graphic.
- Another big mafia tell: taking posts out of context to place an argument.
- Treehuggers agreement that he would have voted Zeks.
- New tells from Zeks posting. They actually tell he is playing against the town (goodbye post).
- Facts and a lie. Townies even bad ones dont lie.
Vote zeks.
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On December 14 2010 13:22 Brocket wrote:
Guys Gab voted on Hesmyrr who mafia already know is town (assuming Hesmyrr is telling the truth).
Kenpachi and Jcarl were on the right track, Ima vote for Gabriel for day 2.Darth you can vote for me, whatever.
- Really? How do you know Hesmyrr is town?
- Did you actually read my vote and the timestamp?
- How old are you? (im not kidding this is important for me).
- I mean look at the underlined statement.
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On December 14 2010 10:05 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So...
I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE That's an interesting claim. I'm inclined to believe it -- Hesmyrr has been fairly active, has been stating clear positions on who should be lynched, and in general seems like a town-aligned player willing to put himself out there to risk hits (veteran-style play). In fact, after re-reading his posts I'm not entirely sure where the suspicions of Hesmyrr being scum have come from, and I'll be taking a closer look at those who were putting a lot of pressure on him.
I think he's telling the truth, but i dunno why Hesmyrr had to tell us his role. I mean all that does is give the mafia extra information - they know now that 1 vet is down a life and whoever replaces Hesmyrr can be hit and killed (barring medic of course). All he had to say was "I took the bomb hit," and it tells us what we need to know. I'm really puzzled by the roleclaim part of it.
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On December 14 2010 14:39 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 13:22 Brocket wrote:
Guys Gab voted on Hesmyrr who mafia already know is town (assuming Hesmyrr is telling the truth).
Kenpachi and Jcarl were on the right track, Ima vote for Gabriel for day 2.Darth you can vote for me, whatever. - Really? How do you know Hesmyrr is town? - Did you actually read my vote and the timestamp? - How old are you? (im not kidding this is important for me). - I mean look at the underlined statement.
I read your vote, you said you'd be away for possibly 30 hours so it served as a placeholder.
Just read the thread bro, I'm inclined to believe Hesmyrr is town.
I'm 22. A/s/l Gabe?
Way to be defensive Gabe. Maybe you should stop asking what my age is and try change my mind.
I've already stated my reasons why I'm voting against you, deal with it. And I mean literally deal with it.
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On December 14 2010 14:52 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 10:05 Node wrote:On December 14 2010 09:41 Hesmyrr wrote:
Hey guys, so I don't know what's going on, but a voltorb that was on me apparently exploded at 12/13/10 15:05 (because mod fails). Fortunately my unwitting wit and shell has saved me, but no longer I boast that powerful shell that guaranteed my survival.
So...
I am Cloyster, voltorb exploded on me and my extra night live was removed because tree.hugger is FAILURE That's an interesting claim. I'm inclined to believe it -- Hesmyrr has been fairly active, has been stating clear positions on who should be lynched, and in general seems like a town-aligned player willing to put himself out there to risk hits (veteran-style play). In fact, after re-reading his posts I'm not entirely sure where the suspicions of Hesmyrr being scum have come from, and I'll be taking a closer look at those who were putting a lot of pressure on him. I think he's telling the truth, but i dunno why Hesmyrr had to tell us his role. I mean all that does is give the mafia extra information - they know now that 1 vet is down a life and whoever replaces Hesmyrr can be hit and killed (barring medic of course). All he had to say was "I took the bomb hit," and it tells us what we need to know. I'm really puzzled by the roleclaim part of it.
I agree that he revealed more than he had to but since nobody has bothered to state they took the hit it's better than nothing. And besides that mafia already hit him once and they know they hit the blue vet, they're better off killing off others now that they've ruled out 1 electrode and 1 cloyster, don't you agree? In Hesmyrr's interests, it's likely that he'll stay in the game now that mafia has lost interest in him (why kill a dude twice, he's just a normal pikachu now) and also there's no reason for town to lynch him. Mafia's would be happy lynching him I suppose to conserve KPT.
People putting pressure on Hesmyrr: Gabe primarily, and others have somehow agreed with him. I honestly don't think Hesmyrr has earned suspicion.
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DoctorHelvetica PM'd me saying Pandain will be replacing me so I am guessing this will be my last post (besides occasional "lol" post as observer if town subsequently fails).
Regarding Infund, he does have a point but the roleclaiming just seemed natural to me while writing the post. I think people would have asked for the clarification anyway.
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I have a beef with 2 people at the moment.
Gabriel:
You're voting zeks. Your original reason was because he acted relatively inactive so is suspicious. That was your strongest argument. It's now void. Good luck getting people to agree with you now.
You originally voted for Hesmyrr. You have only recently read the thread with the sufficient degree of comprehension to make the reasonable assumption that he is a townie. Congratulations, but your first vote on Hesmyrr now looks random and out of place and even winding back to when you posted that vote, it still didn't make sense.
You have not changed at all since the start of the day 1 and frankly your shaky arguments and even worse counter arguments do not sit well with me. Let's see if you can take it 'like a man, like a warrior' again and see how much dust you can stand today.
@ Darth "Huge epeen" ThienAn.
You have had sufficient time to contemplate my posts. You've scrutinised my posts on two seperate occasions. I can tell you and everybody a simple fact . If you keep aggressively focusing on one person then that's all that your posts become. Which means it is easy to not give away anything about yourself. So you are at an easy position picking apart everything I say. Despite your huge e-peen, you still have not voted against me. Since you haven't backed up your words with action, you are not as big as you think, friend Darth-Thien-An.
I've already told me that what I post is as clear as I can make it. Nobody apart from yourself and Gabe have failed to understand me.
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Edit without double post. I've already told everybody and I told me Like a baws.
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On December 14 2010 17:06 Brocket wrote:
I have a beef with 2 people at the moment.
Gabriel:
You're voting zeks. Your original reason was because he acted relatively inactive so is suspicious. That was your strongest argument. It's now void. Good luck getting people to agree with you now.
You originally voted for Hesmyrr. You have only recently read the thread with the sufficient degree of comprehension to make the reasonable assumption that he is a townie. Congratulations, but your first vote on Hesmyrr now looks random and out of place and even winding back to when you posted that vote, it still didn't make sense.
You have not changed at all since the start of the day 1 and frankly your shaky arguments and even worse counter arguments do not sit well with me. Let's see if you can take it 'like a man, like a warrior' again and see how much dust you can stand today.
@ Darth "Huge epeen" ThienAn.
You have had sufficient time to contemplate my posts. You've scrutinised my posts on two seperate occasions. I can tell you and everybody a simple fact . If you keep aggressively focusing on one person then that's all that your posts become. Which means it is easy to not give away anything about yourself. So you are at an easy position picking apart everything I say. Despite your huge e-peen, you still have not voted against me. Since you haven't backed up your words with action, you are not as big as you think, friend Darth-Thien-An.
I've already told me that what I post is as clear as I can make it. Nobody apart from yourself and Gabe have failed to understand me.
Speachless. I can not actually tell if you are just trolling me or if this post is for real. I mean, you just made it, i can not argue you. Congratulations go ahead be free... </3
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This town is just full of drama, isn't it?
Gabe, I'm having something of a love-hate relationship with you, just as you have a love-hate relationship with being useful. Look, you're very suspicious of zeks and zeks is very suspicious of you, but both of you are acting out so badly now that neither really looks any better than the other. There's almost no good that can come of this, but let's go through your post point-by-point:
ONE: Zeks has a reasonable point here. Even if you are completely 100% totally certain that zeks is mafia for whatever reasons, I don't get the feeling that the rest of us feel quite as strongly and you should respect that as long as you don't have the solid reasoning to back up such a claim. Zeks is suspcious and we certainly should be keeping an eye on him, that's for sure-- especially after he just barely missed being lynched day one, but not getting lynched doesn't make him mafia automatically. It makes him very worth looking in to, at least. We'll do that, don't worry. The more you two go back and forth fighting like this the less credible each of you get. This isn't gabe vs zeks, assuming you're aiming for a town win. Zeks is suspicious, we will keep an eye on him. If he continues to act suspicious, he's a prime lynch candidate. That's it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, you did a good job with that at least.
TWO: Good observation from zeks. Regarding hesmyrr's role, taking the cautious route here isn't a bad thing, but I don't understand what mafia would gain from claiming one-life-down vet. They don't know who the bomb hit-- if hesmyrrs is mafia and the real vet out there knows who took the hit, than all mafia's done here is out one of their members. If mewtwo actually took the hit, then he just knows who to kill when he wants to cut down mafia numbers (which will probably be pretty soon, given the way the game's going so far). Or, the only way this move doesn't hurt mafia is if they know that the bomb was on one of the already-dead townies. But whichever way, mafia has no way of knowing which situation is actually taking place! I'm inclined to say that hesmyrrs is town, but caution never hurt anyone.
THREE: Calling your arguments 'solid' and treehuggers' 'stupid' is a little self-serving, don't you think? Both arguments had decent grounds, prentending that your argument was perfect and his was shit so obviously mafia must have intervened doesn't get us anywhere and shows exactly the kind of bad attitude that makes you look suspicious.
FOUR: This is just another story about how gabe's fantastic arguments and debating skill triumphed over the pathetic jcarl on page twenty, leaving him with only an angry face and blah blah blah. This is pointless and gets us nowhere, please stop this kind of posting.
FIVE: Alright.
SIX: This is a mostly baseless attack from zeks, if I understand correctly.
SEVEN: Zeks uses my change in stance on gabe to show that the whole gabe bandwagon disappeared, when there wasn't really a good reason for the gabe bandwagon to keep going. He got votes early on because of agressive and attention-grabbing posting, then lost those votes as more suspicious people were found. I don't think that's an unreasonable shift. Gabe's response to this is, again, 'I defended every argument against me and am a fantastic debater and am not one of the crying idiots like you.' This is seriously not helpful. Good point about context, though.
EIGHT: zeks, his accusations against you amounted to a couple posts that could be taken as scummy. It wasn't much of a stretch, and there isn't much to be questioned there. Not everyone instantly bought in to gabe's *conclusion*, but his evidence spoke for itself. Gabe, how can you say zeks was never bandwagoned when he was prime candidate to be lynched for the majority of the day? And again with the 'my argument is perfect and no one has yet to stand up to it, so clearly it is entirely correct'...
...anyway, the point is:
Gabriel, you clearly have the ability to strongly influence the town's focus and direction. Please start using this ability to actively hunt for scum or investigate recent events rather than abusing it to win your ego-war with zeks. Zeks is suspicious. Everyone understands that by now. By fighting like this you're hurting your reputation, you're hurting your argument, and you're hurting the town as a whole. Please look at the big picture, and put more effort in to make your posts constructive for the town as a whole instead of just for yourself.
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Eii, Gabriel never had a strong pull on the town. He capitalised on tree hugger's encouragement to vote zeks/kenpachi (and tree hugger himself voted kenpachi). Without tree, Gabriel's arguments seemed flimsy and hard to follow. I actually want to look back on who said Gabriel made some good points. Who would say that, really?
If you think Gabriel has the persuasive pull on us townies, you'd better hope he can pick out scum. But seeing as he's just revenge-voting zeks he's hardly worth listening to.
Don't get me wrong, if you have a good, logical point then I will praise you for it and that goes for everyone who contributes. But so far only tree hugger had made a truly positive impression on me, so much so that I changed my vote from gabe to kenpachi on day 1. It's going to take the same amount of intelligent posting to get me to change my gabe vote to someone else.
It's an open invitation gabe, sell me something.
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EPT
