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On November 27 2010 09:19 JimboSilvers wrote:Hey guys, sorry it seems I'm late to the party  DrH, is there anymore to that PM chain? Did your mysterious person ever respond? Still though I dno't really feel like that's that safe to trust, especially since I'm confused as to how you could have a confirmed person so easily? It would really come down to all that you 'feel' about that person. Your reasoning kind of seems like you're WiFOMing yourself too...
So lets call WIFOM on all analysis of behavior/psychology and not analyse this game at all? Insofar the medic gamble makes no sense to me as a mafia play, it was instant and it was something that was clearly not discussed/planned by a group as a whole. I trust this person insofar as I believe them personally to be town aligned but I do not trust them enough to reveal information to them YET.
The mafia can "fake" medic perfectly by sacrificing one KP per night which is a winning situation for town as long as we restrict the flow of roleclaims/information to one person who was confirmed by a DT.
A DT could confirm me since I've already begun something of a circle, I guess (i'm pming a lot) but mafia will inevitably twist it and make believe that I am surely the godfather. I think it is the best course of action to choose a relatively inexperienced/bad player to be confirmed.
Someone like coagulation, georgeclooney, protactinium, or w/e there are a slew of newbies in this game
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I think the DT should check someone else and not the medic at all. I'm not giving the medic any information town won't be getting from me anyway so I don't really see why this will be a bad thing.
If he's mafia he's just inviting a ton of pressure on himself.
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Where I told him not to claim to others:
MEDICCLAIMER:
you're a much better player then me.
I'm taking a gamble assuming your town.. but I already claimed to you. so if i die i die. however if you are really town then I will be best off working with you.
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
maybe
why so submissive? it's making me feel weird
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Original Message From MEDICCLAIMER:
I will let you call the shots.
just pm who you want me to protect.
I can prot you night 1 if you want.
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
Please tell me who you protect each night. That way I can be sure you aren't mafia faking medic and if you just pick bullshit like random inactives for no reason then it'll be pretty obvious you're scum.
If I know the name of a confirmed townie, I'll tell you so you can tell that person who you're protecting ahead of time. Maybe.
If you do trust me you can tell me ahead of time. Because if it turns out that you protect someone and two people die (including them) and vet doesn't claim the hit then you're mafia.
I trust you though, I don't think mafia would just blueclaim to me so brazenly and quickly. Don't claim to anyone else btw, just keep it on the down low. I'm going to try to start a town circle. If I find anyone who can be trusted, I'll refer you to them. There needs to be a level of disconnection so mafia/GF don't fuck everything up. I'm still trying to think of a safe link system or something
i'll let u know
I'm not going to reveal every single PM I get, but it's getting ridiculous that I'm being twisted as scum just because another player chose to roleclaim to me without prompt. If someone can explain how the medic claim is a good mafia play and how it will ruin us/hurt the town circle then that's fine.
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I was sent this earlier by protactinium
Hello there,
We have been reading the thread lately and notice that you are very anti-town in your posts. It seems like you are constantly making things up. So, we have come to the conclusion that you must be the traitor. If you are the traitor, we would like you to acknowledge the fact. so that we do not target you.
Reply
There isn't a traitor in this game for one. Is he trying to catch me off guard and make me say something like "oh no i'm not the traitor I'm the X"?
I'm assuming we is him and Flamewheel. This PM caught me off guard a bit since I was never accused of making things up and I'd like to know what exactly he thinks I'm lying about.
I'm going to put the pressure on him in the open to give us something to discuss at least.
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Oh, I CTRL+F traitor and found no results. That makes sense, then but it isn't a traditional traitor role.
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On November 27 2010 14:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2010 14:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:I was sent this earlier by protactinium Hello there,
We have been reading the thread lately and notice that you are very anti-town in your posts. It seems like you are constantly making things up. So, we have come to the conclusion that you must be the traitor. If you are the traitor, we would like you to acknowledge the fact. so that we do not target you.
Reply There isn't a traitor in this game for one. Is he trying to catch me off guard and make me say something like "oh no i'm not the traitor I'm the X"? I'm assuming we is him and Flamewheel. This PM caught me off guard a bit since I was never accused of making things up and I'd like to know what exactly he thinks I'm lying about. I'm going to put the pressure on him in the open to give us something to discuss at least. I got the exact same PM from him. Being the day after Thanksgiving, I sure have been caught up in festivities. It seemed odd to get this PM though. I have posted 2 (maybe 3?) times in the thread because of the holiday, so there was really nothing for them to analyze. I didn't make the connection that "we" could be protact and flamewheel. This seems like a really lame fishing attempt.
well i sent people nonsensical pm's saying i was mafia and plz give me irc info and stuff like that
maybe he sent it to a bunch of people to see how they'd react?
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wow im fucking dumb protactiniums pm makes complete sense to me now
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wouldn't that be the point
how could a dt take initiative before rolechekcs go through ???
town circles immensely benefit town if done correctly. look at insane mafia where their first order of business was to shut down fishballs group and then to shut down bums group
infiltration is possible but can work out in our favor. mafia are 10x more likely to screw up in pms than in thread and annul came pretty close to losing it all quite a few times in haunted
what is your first priority for day 1 then if not discussing how pms will be utilized in the game
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BrownBear comes in and rallies people to contribute then votes for GC because he's inactive
while proceeding to contribute zero and be inactive himself
i expect better from an experienced player, even on day 1
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I don't think it's very solid either, to clarify.
I'm mostly inclined to vote for BrownBear at the moment.
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My PM's with kenpachi are interesting, I'm not sure whether I should share them or not. Since he's a big lynch candidate right now does town think I should?
It might reveal a little it of information (nothing definite) about his role, but it's led me to believe he could be chaos ensuant,
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Alright I have to share this:
Im a special townie and no interesting things in PMs
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
Seriously considering voting for you. BB is a risky choice on Day 1 but I shake the feeling you're just one of those townies who fucks ups and always makes himself look kinda red.
Why did you say "I can't die"?
and did u hear anything interesting in PMs?
that's from kenpachi
earlier we had this conversation:
DoctorHelvetica:
it'll cause mad suspicions on me dude, dta is already trying to get me lynched just cause some idiot already roleclaimed to me
i didn't get busdriver, i was kidding
i'm not telling anybody my role yet. if a DT confirms to me or something then I'll confirm it to them, but for now my lips are sealed ;o
as should yours be
if you are a DT though, i may have some advice/use for you. don't tell me if you are, just take my advice in stride when I give it if you are the DT. if you know a DT, pass it on.
i'd like to see you active in PM's in this game at least, since you don't really react much in thread
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Original Message From Kenpachi:
hey maybe you should reveal this PM in the thread to bait some scum who will try to alter this from blue or red role to confirmed red role(without my name and this reply ofc) Though, agressive players might take the bait and analyze this post like crazy.. If you feel this would cause suspicions on you, you dont have to.
Also, do some, all or none of the green townies get some random role? you got busdriver and that isnt a blue role..
BTW, idk how you got the assumption that i cant be green
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
well i kno u cant be green since you said you're not miller
i wont reveal u as probable blue/red thought. you don't have to roleclaim to me if you don't want but I am going to be trying to form a town circle.
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Original Message From Kenpachi:
or i might be a special townie :D
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
so ur just normal townie right
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Original Message From Kenpachi:
No.. im not the miller or a witch last time i checked (2 minutes ago)
dunno if i can believe that your a DT
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
im the dt and i checked you
you're mafia :/
r u the miller?
now we had this exchange:
well im saying special townie because you said you were busdriver and I got the assumption that normal townies might have some role.
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Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
I feel uncomfortable about you
why do you keep saying "special townie" role instead of blue? the only "special townies" are miller and chaos ensuant and you said you weren't the miller
so i don't know what to think right now. but if you were chaos ensuant why would you hint that to me?
So he thinks maybe he was a special townie because I knew I was "busdriver" (obvious fake claim/joke), then wouldn't he know what his special role is?
He says "I can't die" as though he knows he has some important role purpose then when I ask him why he said that he says "Oh, I'm a special townie" when the only reason he was saying that was because he didn't read the rules/thread and just took what I said at face value. So Kenpachi:
did u think maybe you had a special role as a townie that was hidden and secret from you? because in some of these PM's you seem pretty sure that is the case
does he seriously misunderstand the rules that bad. why is he jumping from being unsure about whether or not he is special to being very sure and even using it as a case as to why he should not be lynched? kenpachi you need to explain this whole thing.
order of conversations:
the second quote was the first conversation we had
then the first
lastly the third
note before the last 2 conversations I told him i was kidding about being the busdriver
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if you read the thread you would know there are no hidden roles. also you said at one point "i am a special townie" and connected it to your post in the voting thread that you couldn't die.
pandain suggested you might be chaos ensuant and it makes sense considering your rhetoric.
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alright i feel much safer about kenpachi. and now i have regained confidence in my scumhunting prowess, i smelled the red on bb right after his very first post.
i have advice for dts. id prefer to start corresponding with one directly. you can check and confirm me or another player then talk to me through them so i dont know who you are
check priority 1 is darth
coag
pandain
aeres
southrawrea
are players i would check as well if i were a dt. im asking the medic claimer to protect me tonight. if a dt refers themselves to me i can pass the medic im aware of onto you.
again, not asking for roleclaims. it would make my job easier but dont do anything you dont feel safe doing.
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in response to what jimbosilver is saying about how im pming i havent been trying to trap or trick anyone, im testing reactions which are much more telling and i can say its already getting me somewhere useful.
i like your approach jimbo but ive revealed very little of what im doing in pm land so dont draw too many conclusions. i never thought anyone would take a joke like claiming busdriver or dracula seriously but people do react funnily when nonsensical claims and accusations are made and it can be very telling and its an easy way to get discussions rolling.
i didnt really do anything in the way of traps and if i did i woudlnt reveal it unless i caught somebody ;o
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there are a lot of things wrong with your post SR
Calling all the shots? I'm offering my thoughts, make of it what you will. But no I'm not trying to dominate the town or anything.
DT claiming to me is up to the DT and like I said I advise the DT to take a safer route (check somebody, confirm them town, communicate to me through them without giving out names.) instead of fishing for the dt to roleclaim to me. He can always check me.
You seem to be saying I want the DT to check me because i could be godfather but then you criticize me for making DTA my #1 priority DT check? If I was godfather I'd be begging the DT's to check me now. DTA is my #1 check because I feel most strongly he is scum (and I was right about BrownBear right?) there is nothing suspicious about that, don't try to make it sound like it is.
The mouthpiece should act in the town circle and not claim publicly, that's my opinion. That way the mafia don't for sure know who it is. Killing the mouthpiece forces the DT to find a new mouthpiece and claim to a second person whereas the mouthpiece can simply move from person to person, adding another layer of protection
i really really really don't think the claim was fake. it was too immediate, too stupid, and it makes very little sense on a metagame/theory level. i trust it, you don't have to.
i don't even understand what kind of pressure you're trying to put on me. you're just saying a lot of obvious stuff, almost your whole post boils down to the point "nothing is 100% safe or certain" which is obvious in this game. and it also sounds like you are trying to make it seem like I'm telling the DT what to do when I'm offering several different courses of possible action/advice (something you're not doing and that is decidedly pro-town)
again:
i'm advising the DT to go through someone else and not to roleclaim to me directly.
On November 28 2010 12:18 Aeres wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 12:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
alright i feel much safer about kenpachi. and now i have regained confidence in my scumhunting prowess, i smelled the red on bb right after his very first post.
i have advice for dts. id prefer to start corresponding with one directly. you can check and confirm me or another player then talk to me through them so i dont know who you are
check priority 1 is darth
coag
pandain
aeres
southrawrea
are players i would check as well if i were a dt. im asking the medic claimer to protect me tonight. if a dt refers themselves to me i can pass the medic im aware of onto you.
again, not asking for roleclaims. it would make my job easier but dont do anything you dont feel safe doing. Just curious, why do you feel that I'm an important person to rolecheck? I have no objections to being checked, of course, but I do want to know why I'm on the list. Is it because of the Insane debacle, or a post I made here, or a PM I sent? Speaking as objectively as I can, I fail to recognize anything I've done so far that should strike anyone as particularly noteworthy. Care to enlighten me?
Mistake, I didn't catch a few of your recent posts. I had you on my list early on and never took you off.
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Yeah, I would be a great choice for elder if I was mafia. that is true.
Of course we should not operate under the assumption I am town.
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They don't need to check them, DT's are autonomous.
Priority right now is finding a confirmed townie through which they can communicate via PM, hopefully getting to me that way. A DT can check me as well and then confirm to me directly, but like many have said, if I were a mafia player I'd be the #1 pick for godfather.
I'm PMing people and posting in the thread on a need to know basis. If anyone wants to know more in-depth what I'm thinking, talk to me in the great PM land. I'm not going to let everyone in on every thought in my head because:
a. i don't want mafia to know
b. don't want to spam the thread
i'm feeling much better about pandain/aeres/southrawrea then I was when I posted that, to be clear.
I'm obviously a prime candidate for a DT check, I feel DTA is suspicious as well as coagulation.
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DTA is hardly a random target, he's had suspicion cast on him for a while.
In order to give my case on certain people I have to reveal a lot of PM's and I feel I need to apply more pressure first.
One of the last things you should do as town is respond to every point, post every thought you have, etc. It's not a defense at all. Of course the DT's should read the thread and make their own decision but DTA had a lot of suspicion thrown on him and has made it worse for himself in PM land.
Please don't expand the fact that I didn't analyse all 6 players into "alot of nothingness in all of my posts", that's trying on purpose to make me look bad.
Have you ever considered that in certain cases revealing my reasoning could be counter productive? You don't know for what reason I may withhold information from mafia ears, so don't assume it's for no reason. If my lips are sealed, there is a reason why. So far you've contributed nothing other than attacks on me
you didn't even contribute a vote
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mafia knowing what I think about a player in the case that the player is mafia might benefit mafia
ideally, i would want a mafia player to believe I trust them so they are more willing to talk to me/fuck up in PMs to me. if they think I know they're mafia then they aren't going to do that.
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EPT
