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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:04 citi.zen wrote: You haven't answered my question: do you still favor switching the CV's target? Still favor? What are you smoking? I talked about the lynch, I talked about my check, but I never exactly talked about who to CV. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:36 citi.zen wrote: Way to avoid giving your opinion, and try to start an argument instead. I thought we WERE arguing. I quoted you regarding checking LSB, you replied, I replied again, and you pop up that question. WTF? It's like we're talking about oranges, and all of a sudden you ask me if I like cats. Now I'm sincerely thinking your either crazy or just plain idiotic. In reply to you dumb question. Changing targets? Changing WHAT targets? Who is our original target? We don't even have one. Pandain is pretty much the only person bringing up CV targets. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
Citizen's logic is making me cringe. Just to add a bit more content, lets assume we do have an original target "A". If town can find a better target "B", then sure " I will favor switching the CV's target". | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 02 2010 08:19 Pandain wrote: I'm pretty sure anyone would do that. I think he's asking you whether we should CV someone besides LSB. But I think I've proven that pretty sufficiently. More importantly, what do you think on BrownBear's slip up. Could be legitimate, as in "I don't have time so I just randomly picked a role". Regardless, he is still very suspicious. He has been gone for the majority of the game, apologizing and even pushed to be mod-killed. Then all of a sudden he starts to add his two cents. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 02 2010 08:41 citi.zen wrote: Wrong, in this case that only gives the Mafia more options. If you are wrong about the "better " target it can result in an option to kill a townie. If you are right about the "better" target the Mafia will role block the CV. Fishball and lsb are 90% confirmed reds in my eyes. You can try and frame your question all you want. I can also argue that better targets means 100% confirmed players with guns, which are likely to be Mafia. You never listed out the exact scenario, and popped that question out of the blue. You "knew" what answer I was going to say, and had your "correct" answer waiting. I'll say it again. Trying too hard citizen? | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
I checked JeeJee He has no gun. So Chaoser's list is cleared, LSB pretty much claimed Tratior/Red, and BB is also up there. Town pretty much have this. Lynch one, CV another the other day, then go hunting among the "unconfirmed" players. I'll be happy to have myself killed if you guys run out of targets. Town shouldn't need the BulletBill anymore at that point. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 03 2010 04:50 citi.zen wrote: Fishball said he would not investigate one of Chaoser/LSB because it's "idiotic" (after initially asking for suggestions; and yelling at Radfield to "never use that tone with him" for much lesser statements). At any rate. today the town could still have to solve the "who is the traitor" puzzle, possibly wasting another lynch. I really like the way how you take things out of contrast to support your statements. Yeah, I did say I was taking suggestions. I then voiced my reasons, and said in a friendly manner that if anyone else, literally ANYONE would support your idea, I'll go for it. Then you go into "accusing mode" again. That's when you ticked me off and I confessed that I thought your plan was flat out idiotic. If you still don't see why, then you should just go play Pac-Man. Not to mention I was never against hitting LSB when Pandain brought it up, although we end up hitting Chaoser instead which obviously works, and cleared a list of 3 innocent players; One bird two stones. It was obvious to me that the Traitor situation could be easily solved with a hit or a lynch, which I originally proposed the lynch. Why the fuck would you want to waste a BB check on either one? Speaking of which, did anyone ever supported your idea of checking LSB? Anyways, I ended up checking JeeJee who has no gun. Better than wasting my check on LSB, who the entire world already knows he is the Traitor/Mafia now. Oh, and that "interrogating" question yesterday, lol. No background, nothing but a plain question trying to "bait" me. Saw it coming, and it still makes me grin every time I see that post where you reply, starting with "Wrong!". You must have felt all warm and fuzzy inside when you hit "post". Must have felt like a boss on a boat while jizzing your pants. If you think you have a case against me, you are obviously doing a piss poor job of persuading people to listen to you; A crucial element in Mafia games. I hereby nominate myself to be CV'd tomorrow. The Town have this one in the bag, and I should not be needed anymore. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
I'm back for now, or to say, I'm free for this little moment. Been out of town and will be going out again. Schedule quite packed for the long weekend. Role Blocked last night, so I didn't get Pandain. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
I pretty much talked to Ace and Rastaban on Friday saying that the game was already lost. We had a slim chance since the beginning so we gave it a go, but at this point, it was statistically lost. Decided to let it drag out and unfold anyways to see what the town would do. Going out again, so I'll elaborate on how our "real" situation was this entire game when I get back. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 07 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote: Dropping bad santa should be fine. An alternative might be to reduced the list to 3 people: works the same in mafia hands but when in town hands you could at most have 2 confirmed players when someone gets killed. Killing the bad santa would be less appealing. Bad santa aside, I think this game was balanced OK. The mafia did effectively have another player in the traitor + there were some good pro-mafia roles that could have given the mafia extra KP but were not picked (still find it odd there wasn't a GF, even with the buff it got). The SK death/killing a red was twice lucky for town. Chaoser's list was another huge bit of luck: I would have pushed really hard to lynch Opz in it's absence; as it turned out, both me and Opz were on it AND there were also no other red on it AND Radfield had just been killed that night. I don't think this is why they killed him, but I could be wrong. The mafia killed JeeJee to make lynching Fishball less attractive. This is the same reason FB claimed he was roleblocked the following night and went from 90% to 99% red in my eyes. I sort of checked out the past few days, glad Sin was there to finish this strong! Just to elaborate a bit here, I didn't really want to claim to be Role Blocked. I actually put in "orders" to hit myself and call it a day (plus I knew I would be busy during this long weekend), but Rastaban changed it to JeeJee. Me asking to die in the thread was actually sincere. This was on Friday night, where I knew the game was already lost. For the record, I did not hit Chaoser, and I still don't know why the guys did it... Anyways, after that long post from Rastaban on Divenek, I thought it wouldn't be too nice to put his efforts to "waste", so I just played along, despite the inevitable. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 07 2010 04:28 Qatol wrote: I was honestly hoping you would put in an extra mafia member this game. Both in this game and the last I felt the town didn't play very well, killed a bunch of townies, and still managed to win over a mafia team who played better. I guess the traitor fills this void a little, but I still would have liked to see 1 more mafia member. I thought the mafia should have 100% just left the top of the list alone entirely other than Fishball's Bullet Bill ability. The town had devoted most of that part of the list to denying roles from the mafia, so the mafia weren't killing off any super dangerous roles for them (except Bad Santa due to some really bad luck for the mafia). On top of that, south started a witch hunt which set the town in motion killing all of the people in the top of the list, hunting for a player who might not even be mafia. They were looking for 1 player out of 2-6, so a 1 in 5 chance of hitting mafia. They actually would have had a better chance of getting a mafia/traitor by just lynching players randomly (1 in 4). I actually liked the hit on JeeJee. The scum knew there was a medic/jack out there and they had it narrowed down to one of a few players. Other than that, I agree. The hit on Chaoser was probably the worst hit of the game. The mafia should have known that they would be confirming a bunch of players. That hit should have been put on someone on the list. I don't think it's that CV is the best role overall. It definitely isn't from the town's point of view. However, the mafia is MUCH stronger if they get 2 KP. They just have a problem ending the game as it stands right now. So there is a lot of value for the town in denying the mafia the use of that role. More roles that had the potential to kill more than 1 player would help things a bit I think, but they might be hard to balance. A common theme in almost every mafia game is that the town will learn more as the game goes along. It is almost impossible for a mafia to keep the town from confirming a few players as most likely innocent. And that is a big deal as the game starts to wind down. However, it hasn't helped that the mafia had the top pick this game and the #2 pick last game, both slots assigned the CV. That is basically just a wasted role for the mafia. They don't want to be seen as going against the town, but with that role, they will only be able to go against the town consensus 1 time. It is just a hard position to be in. I agree that the mafia didn't incite enough suspicion. In particular, I think that Fishball should have stirred something up earlier in the game. The town was definitely going down the wrong path early, but they managed to get a few lucky breaks and suddenly they're going in the right direction and the mafia has no foundation set up to lead them in the wrong direction. I actually did stir thing up early on, just a bit more subtle. I know I'm quoting your post, but I'll just use this post to list some events and run down of things. - Before the game actually starts, Radfield posted his plan; I see it and talked to the guys, saying that he is definitely one of the smarter players, and needs to be taken down whenever we have the chance. - Me drafting Bullet Bill was a genuine mistake. Like I mentioned in the thread, I didn't have time to adjust for the 3rd list change Ace made. - Subversion was a 3rd replacement, and never had time to communicate with us at all for the draft. Also his time zone is Korea... - DTA picked CopyCat; His own choice, which is fine, but Divinek shooting BM got him Mason, rendering his role useless the entire game. Regardless of the outcome, Divinek will always be a hero to me. Good job! - SR claims there is a Traitor in the top. Immediately, I planned to have this dragged out as long as possible, "stirring things up". I never planned to pick up the Traitor at all, but to use this situation to grab the town's attention instead. It worked out for the most part, until the guys shot Chaoser, one day ahead of schedule. - Rastaban and me were the only active ones at first. Like mentioned above, Subversion is in Korea and rarely posts. Eventually he was killed off Night 1 by the SK. DTA was pretty much playing SC2 most of the time, drawing a lot of unnecessary suspicion to himself since the beginning, and there was nothing we could do about it. Later on, Rastaban was busy with work and was pretty much unavailable most of the time during the day for like an entire week. I was left alone. - After the SK was lynched, I knew our chance of winning just dropped dramatically; Three Mafia with one KP, against the entire Town after Night 1. Great. - Biggest turn around in the game for us: Bad Santa list with all five innocents. If we proceed with the "plan", as in dragging out the Traitor situation with lynches and proceed to hit the "confirmed" targets on the list, we still have a chance. This all ended when Chaoser was hit instead, and the citizen hit was saved. The game was officially over at this point, statistically wise. - I talked to Ace that same night, and told him that I'll just use our Mafia hit to kill myself. I was already too tired at this point, and I pretty much wasn't enjoying the "game" at all. Ace suggested we concede, but I said no, as I wanted to see things unfold; Curious to see how much longer it would take for the Town to figure things out. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On September 07 2010 14:23 LSB wrote: Oops... I guess I shouldn't have pushed the zeks kill? I was assuming that zeks would be considerably anti mafia (especially since he killed a mafia already, and he would be a SK rolecop and rolecop = bad) Well, sort of yes and no. When bum came out saying there were only 4 visitors , it didn't take long for Town and Mafia to figure out zeks was the SK. He was bound to be lynched. We actually hit zeks too, as we figured he would very likely be the Role Cop, and there shouldn't be any protection. The entire thing was just unfortunate. The SK needs us as much as we need the SK. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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