EPTTL Mafia XXX
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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Why can't watchers watch themselves? Can a tracker track him/her self? | ||
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With bus driver these questions actually hold great importance.... | ||
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On August 06 2010 12:30 Bill Murray wrote: I am actually fishing with the Divinek wagon. Whoever the 3rd person to vote on it is is going to be lynched imo I once new a guy who swore by the fact that the third person to talk at the start of the first day was mafia. Yes...you just reminded me of him...did I mention he was never right about anything? | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 06 2010 12:53 Pandain wrote: Says the guy trying to get me to reveal my role. I think we should seriously take a look at this brodooski...he's yet to make any real contribution, despite an overflowing of posts. He got pretty defensive when divinek voted for him, which isn't fool proof I know, but it's definitely something to take note of. Bill Murray, I may not have any idea how you're playing these days, but I'd totally support you against this brodooski. | ||
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Foolishness
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Why wait until tonight when we got a lynch today? | ||
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On August 06 2010 13:37 Chezinu wrote: Hey Guys, I'm Chezinu! Yo guys...now I don't want to cause a commotion or anything...but I think it's Chezinu... | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 06 2010 13:56 Protactinium wrote: Sorry, I feel like derailing for just one little moment to boost my ego. Are you sure about that, tree.hugger? Disregarding the bomb, detail to me how all the blues were dead by Night 4. Explain to me how Roffles died Night 2, and how we hit a Veteran night 1. And no, I didn't need Subversion to "run naked" through the metaphorical town. We could have killed him any time we wanted. BloodyC0bbler had the blue roster being lakrismamma/sINiquity/bumatlarge (two for three). d3 was read for a vet, and Divinek claimed. The only ones we didn't figure out were the two town KP roles, and there was no need to. Only reason we "sucked" at blue sniping by your definition was because we were nerfed by having 2 KP instead of 3, and having two veterans and two medics makes for permanently invincible people if not stacked. Add to that the fact that if you hit somebody and they survive, they are confirmed town due to the fact that Mafia cannot hit their own. Think about all that, and then tell us again that Mafia sucked at bluesniping last game. Alright, just wanted to say that. Enjoy the game! Nobody likes smurfs. | ||
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Foolishness
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And to let you know I have a bunch of posts from mafia of previous games (not necessarily you) who all say something like "I got this mafia list figured out" or "I think I know who's mafia but I'm not going to say unless I really have to". It's pretty common to see mafia members do this. I look really forward to hearing your response when I post good information about how you're mafia. I also look forward to you getting people to spam away my good post when I do post it (assuming you don't post your list, which, let's face it, you know you won't). If you're pro-town, you'll post your list and give your reasons. There's no reason to wait. The more information in the open the better we are. | ||
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Foolishness
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What if BM doesn't get lynched (for whatever reason)? | ||
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On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you. Awww I'm touched <3 I would think it's obvious to any town player that lynching a player who's actively participating and defending against arguments is foolish. How many times have you seen a mafia player that isn't Ace/L actively tell people they are wrong/stupid and defend their beliefs to the last moment they die? Hardly ever. Imma wait at least another 2 days before ever considering voting for any of you. Truth is, I barely give a care as to whether BM or you or DTA or divinek is mafia. Cause all you active people do is blame each other and find reasons why the other is mafia. If one of you is actually mafia, I'm sure one of the others will figure it out sooner or later. I got bigger fish to fry in figuring out who's mafia among the other 50% of the players who half lurk. Now wait a minute...you're supposedly a ninja and getting killed by other ninja's tonight. If I was mafia why would I bother hitting you? Haha, I actually kinda lol'd when I read your post, because it's insanely obvious you improvised the entire thing. I've seen better reasoning for suspicions out of totally new players. Have you even read my posts to consider if I'm actually mafia? I'm pretty sure you're too concerned with BM right now to even care who else is mafia. Which is fine by me, you do what you got to do and I'll do what I got to do. One person is not a list. You got any others you want to throw out there? | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 08 2010 07:38 XeliN wrote: Young what happened to the cold hard reasoned you, the slightly aggressive you is here but the you from last game would never have used this as an argument. "I'm gonna vote for BM. Mostly because I don't want to waste the lynch on some random." and qualify that with saying you don't actually find him suspicious. Doesn't he seem the most likely person that the mafia would hope to be bandwagoned on day1 at this point? As such, unless you actually think he is more likely than a "random" of being red shouldn't we avoid voting for him? If it werent for my contented vote on Chaoser so far i'd switch to you, although it would probably only be a gesture. If you argue that the town will benefit from killing someone with a big ego, I'm sure you could contend to get him lynch. I'd surely vote for him; I think you could get a few more. | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 08 2010 08:09 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Cause young's ego has been bigger than BM or my own this game... Isn't there a saying that's like, admitting you have a problem is half the battle? But no matter. And here I was expecting your post to be all, "omg why didn't you respond to the accusations against you", "look at you pretend to be active while not be", "why you change your vote randomly without saying anything", "rawr rawr". Thanks for not flipping out on me! | ||
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On August 08 2010 12:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: shall we lynch foolishness together tomorrow? Aren't you supposed to be arguing with BM? I recall you making multiple posts about how when BM flips red I'm for sure his mafia buddy. Which is strange as a whole since BM has been actively opposing me for a while now...but I guess that's just cause he realized you were obviously townie so he turned to look at the next best player who could be mafia and here I was! Say, have you dared to notice how this thread has been dominated by the same 10ish people? I mean surely you have to have realized that you've been holding conversations in the thread with the same people over and over and over again. I only happened to take notice when I decided to make a list of the inactive/lurkers. And I got 16-20 people on that list, give or take. And now I beg to wonder...when you, BM, Divinek, Pandain, and youngminii are through killing each other off, how you going to find the rest of the mafia? Do you even have any idea who among the lurkers is probably innocent and who's suspicious? Probably not because you're busy formulating the town plan and looking at the active players (there's nothing wrong with this at all, I'm just saying how it is). Now it seems very reasonable to me (and I'd hope a few others) that all you goody active players just toss your ego's aside for a moment and take care to notice of the fact that good players who are normally active are pretty much mia this entire game (i.e. Chezinu, Infundibulum, DTA). Not to mention some veteran is smurfing under the name VayeshMoru. Perhaps we should be looking here since when the lot of you are finish killing yourselves off the town is going to be screwed. And I do realize that there's a better chance I'm going to invent a perpetual motion device tomorrow than of this happening, but I guess I just secretly hope someone takes note of this and learns from it. I don't see any reason why this game isn't a repeat of the one BM hosted. Mafia sit back and do nothing and watch town kill themselves. Yes I realize it got a tad bit complicated in the middle but still. I know you're probably thinking at some point "Well hey Foolishness, you are normally more active that you're currently being why should we pay more attention to Chezinu than you?" Truth is, I don't have time to deal with all your "town plans" that probably aren't going to work and your suspicions against me. I got a job to do, I'm weeding out mafia members among the lurkers. And that's what I do best. It's day one and I don't got much to go on since nobody is pressuring any of the lurkers, but I'd like to think I'm getting somewhere with it. And there are more than enough people that can vouch that I'm active in PM land. You go do what you do. I'm going to go do what I do. I'll talk to you when it's necessary and I have information. If you or BM or anyone keep taking one-liner shots at me in the thread, don't expect a response, I don't have the time. | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 08 2010 14:02 rastaban wrote: Hmm some valid points here. The fact that we spent the last 25 pages arguing over 4 plans and none came to fruition lends his post some credence. What do we need to do to get the other players talking more. I guess lynch inactive people... Sort of. We have to kill the lurkers, not the inactives. | ||
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On August 08 2010 14:18 DarthThienAn wrote: Hi guys. At an airport, etc. Be home in like 12 hours. May or may not sleep when I get home. Boarding in 10 minutes. But ummm... I missed out on the last 20 pages. But I feel like I'm going to die tonight  . So someone should protect me ^_^.Don't worry broski I got ya covered | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 09 2010 06:16 Hesmyrr wrote: Well, mafia may interrupt the plan but it definitely seems like it'll give us more information about scum; they are forced to fakeclaim or either get crushed by new town circle. Even if there are more than one blue roles, there really cannot be more than two. Just start verifying people's claims - it really shouldn't be that hard to do - and town has this fixed unless somebody starts acting stupid. If we got a hatter out there, you gotta get a bomb on this brodooski. | ||
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On August 09 2010 11:16 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: So I guess instant analysis is: 1. Mafia, lying. 2. Vet 3. Medic didn't follow plan 4. Ninja 5. Bus Driver didn't follow plan, redirected Medic onto you. 6. Mafia got hit by vigi that is suspicious of how different Foolishness is acting this game, somehow got protted (see 4 or 5) Yep, I don't know much. All these blues make it harder for town to figure shit out lol. Okay now why don't you pick the most likely choice out of that list. | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 09 2010 11:39 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: imo... 1. Mafia (since you are so scummy), then 4. Ninja (pming 8 people asking them to do things they could do in the thread - seems like blue fishing but could be enemy ninja fishing, mayyybe the scummy anti-town play is to keep the mafia of your tail since you are usually a huge threat to them), then 2. Veteran (maybe you are playing so different to appear like ninja/blue to soak up a hit - this makes little sense though because you usually get hit day 1 while playing pro-town). I didn't ask for your opinion. I said to pick the choice that was most likely. Even if 2 DTs came out and said I was clean and a Tracker followed me and I didn't visit anyone and even if the GF was already dead I know you'd still accuse me of being mafia. Don't tell me things I already know. | ||
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On August 09 2010 13:38 youngminii wrote: God damnit I'm busy for like a day and there's 3948234 pages to read. Can someone post a summary of what's happened? Your team hit me. I took the hit like a man. Now I'm going to get you lynched. | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 09 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote: What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. I haven't even been on in a day or so and you automatically assume I'm scum because you got hit. You know what I think? I think you faked the hit. I don't even know why you want me lynched, maybe you're scum and you think I'm not worth a night hit so you go for a lynch. So ignoring the fact that you haven't contributed all game, and that you aren't acting at all like your previous games (you haven't spammed the thread, you've hardly accused anyone), then I just might be a tad bit crazy. | ||
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On August 09 2010 13:52 Bill Murray wrote: @foolishness: top 3 suspects and why? youngminii: already been said. I plan on doing an indepth analysis tomorrow (I really need to go sleep shortly >.<) Infundibulum: He's less active than his normal style. His current posting reminds me of Incognito's 2 mafia family game (he was mafia). He hasn't contributed anything. Chezinu: Fits the bill with youngminii (notice how youngminii is protective of Chezinu during day 1). Also I don't think you're mafia, Pyrry's not mafia, I'm not mafia, which leaves Chezinu as top candidate for balancing purposes. Infundibulum also fits for balancing since he's one of the most experienced players in this game as well. Weeding through the inactives/lurkers is a tiring and troublesome process. | ||
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On August 09 2010 14:06 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Okay, here's the most likely scenario: Mafia double stacked LSB. Foolishness is Godfather posing as veteran. 99.9% sure I lol'd | ||
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On August 09 2010 14:14 Bill Murray wrote: This gives me townie cred with you I wish people would be more open with their roles, though. I'll be back in an hour or so. I honestly don't know how I can be more open about my role unless I die... | ||
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On August 09 2010 14:24 DarthThienAn wrote: Are you kidding me? If he really is vet, then he is a confirmed townie. How is that useless? So that you can hit more accurately tonight? ^^ Didn't you read his posts? I've used up my extra life so I got nothing else to live for. Forget about establishing town circles and the what not...I've lost my extra life. Therefore I am useless. | ||
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Foolishness
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On August 09 2010 14:29 youngminii wrote: I don't understand how you guys can automatically assume he's a confirmed townie. I feel no "townie vibes" coming off him, his posts aren't hugely scummy but afaik he's a good player. On August 09 2010 14:31 youngminii wrote: ##Vote Foolishness cool story bro | ||
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On August 10 2010 06:29 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yeah, I don't like how town seems unable to do blue plans and scum hunt at the same time. When are you going to be away from your computer? I need to post stuff about youngminii and I can't afford to have you spam it away. | ||
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On August 10 2010 06:41 Divinek wrote: what do you mean see what happens? what do we gain from lynching him? prove that he played like an idiot like the start of every other game? your reasoning behind it is pretty non existant, and im still watching you boy. Our blue roles should really be keeping an eye on lurkers like you if you're not being lynched. The only blue role working against lurkers is me. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: For anyone who may be playing this game or reading it, let it be known that claiming vet and saying you've taken a hit is basically as much proof as just claiming blue, as in there is no proof. Opz has a town circle of which he swears by is legit. Apparently I'm still mafia though. Did you know there have been at least 3 people to claim tracker so far? Maybe 4, it's hard for me to tell since nobody will talk to me. But now I'm just being bitter. | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I have, in fact, heard that there are at least 3 people claiming tracker. I have also heard that I am a tracker, which is news to me. Well it is relieving to know we're on the same page at least lol | ||
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On August 10 2010 08:31 Chezinu wrote: Opz? It seems like he hasn't even been reading the thread... how would he even have a town circle.. I still trying to get in one.. You wanna join mine? I must admit though we are very lacking in members...I think Opz's group more than doubles our group. | ||
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Foolishness
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First off, since people still seem to be confused about this I am a Veteran. Last night I took a hit and I did not have a medic on me. This does not confirm me 100% but I want to be clear about this because I have nothing to hide. Pyrry claims in his recap that I was "furiously defending BM right at the start of the game". As some of you may know during the first day I pushed Pyrry to post his list of suspects (it was clear he wanted to kill BM, but he said he had a list going). It was at this post that he first accused me of being mafia with BM and that I chainsawed BM. I would now like to refute all of these points. I have never "furiously defended BM". Up until the point where Pyrry accused me of chainsaw, my posts mainly consisted of one liners about Chezinu and smurfs and killing youngminii. My other posts (that had content) consisted of a suspicion of Pandain: On August 06 2010 13:07 Foolishness wrote: I think we should seriously take a look at this brodooski...he's yet to make any real contribution, despite an overflowing of posts. He got pretty defensive when divinek voted for him, which isn't fool proof I know, but it's definitely something to take note of. Bill Murray, I may not have any idea how you're playing these days, but I'd totally support you against this brodooski. And also includes me going AGAINST Bill Murray: On August 06 2010 12:18 Foolishness wrote: Bill Murray's attitude is awfully serious for his norm... On August 06 2010 12:37 Foolishness wrote: I once new a guy who swore by the fact that the third person to talk at the start of the first day was mafia. Yes...you just reminded me of him...did I mention he was never right about anything? Before Pyrry accused me in the thread I had nothing supporting Bill Murray. In fact, I was suspicious of him for acting outside his norm! I hadn't played a game with him in a bit so apparently I was wrong about what his norm was, but up to this point I had not furiously defended BM. After I had asked Pyrry to post his list he says: On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you. Let me clarify that a chainsaw defense is when a person defends another by accusing the attacker. If you look through my posts I have never accused Pyrry of being mafia, I simply asked him for his list because if he was pro-town, he would post it. Let me also both out he says I chainsawed against Divinek. Divinek was voting for larjarse at the time, so that doesn't make any sense. I will also say that Divinek had only one vote at the time (from bumatlarge), and there was no longer much focus on Divinek compared to earlier in the day. My response to his post was: On August 07 2010 09:40 Foolishness wrote: Awww I'm touched <3 I would think it's obvious to any town player that lynching a player who's actively participating and defending against arguments is foolish. How many times have you seen a mafia player that isn't Ace/L actively tell people they are wrong/stupid and defend their beliefs to the last moment they die? Hardly ever. Imma wait at least another 2 days before ever considering voting for any of you. Truth is, I barely give a care as to whether BM or you or DTA or divinek is mafia. Cause all you active people do is blame each other and find reasons why the other is mafia. If one of you is actually mafia, I'm sure one of the others will figure it out sooner or later. I got bigger fish to fry in figuring out who's mafia among the other 50% of the players who half lurk. Now wait a minute...you're supposedly a ninja and getting killed by other ninja's tonight. If I was mafia why would I bother hitting you? Haha, I actually kinda lol'd when I read your post, because it's insanely obvious you improvised the entire thing. I've seen better reasoning for suspicions out of totally new players. Have you even read my posts to consider if I'm actually mafia? I'm pretty sure you're too concerned with BM right now to even care who else is mafia. Which is fine by me, you do what you got to do and I'll do what I got to do. One person is not a list. You got any others you want to throw out there? My intention with this post was to get him to clam down, because I was actively hunting mafia through the lurkers. I mention that I don't care whether him or BM or any other active is mafia, which was true. That would be my only defense of BM, which wasn't even a defense. I was not chainsawing here either, if that was true I would've accused Pyrry of being mafia, which I have yet to do all game long. Pyrry says I buddied up with BM. It's clear that I was suspicious of him, not trying to buddy up. Pyrry further said he didn't mean I chainsawed against Divinek, but against Pandain (he made a typo in his post). This further does not make sense since Pandain wasn't even against BM at the time (Pandain had voted for Chezinu). In conclusion I did not chainsaw defend BM, all my relevant posts are here as proof. I never accused Pyrry, only asked him to post his list. Pyrry in his analysis of me says I'm acting outside my normal behavior as town. I can easily refute this by showing my behavior from past games: When I am town or town-aligned, I am very active in hunting down mafia, especially behind the scenes. In Plexa's Summer Session Mafia, I was active in PMing everyone, and before I died I had convinced the town to kill 2 mafia, and I had figured out a few others. Pyrry was in this game as mafia and he knows. One of the things I do when I'm town in order to figure out who's mafia is pressuring people in the thread. I call them out in the thread to see how they respond and try to figure out alignment that way. This is apparent in every game I've been in from my first. In the first game I played in (hosted by Pyrry) I called out Shikyo in the thread and pushed him hard to prove himself. From this I was able to deduce he was innocent and we were able to form a town circle. I consistently do this because I want to see how people react when I call them out. In fact I did it this game when I asked Pyrry to post his mafia list. In Incognito's mafia XXVII I pushed flamewheel hard. If the game hadn't ended he was my top suspect to lynch because of his reaction. Compare this to my games when I'm mafia. While I try to be active, it's not uncommon for me to hide amongst the lurkers. Furthermore, I PM a lot less than normal. In Flamwheel's Mafia XX, where I was the GF, I believe the only person I talked to in PMs was Incognito (minus a short stint with L). In Incognito's double mafia family game, I barely posted as I sat back sniping blues/reds. I didn't post very much until the town was half dead and after Chezinu inspected me. My behavior this games only shows that I'm innocent and not mafia. I think I have talked with more than 50% of this town in PMs, and I know more than enough of you can vouch that I'm very active talking to everyone. I would like to further emphasize my post on page 41 at the start of night 1. I told everyone exactly what I was doing, and I think people can vouch that I haven't swayed from what I said. Summary: My posts clearly indicate I was never "furiously defending BM". There was never any chainsaw defense since I never accused Pyrry. I am acting in accordance with my normal town playstyle, definitely not my mafia play. The majority of my posts are quoted here as proof. This does not prove me 100% innocent, but shows that Pyrry's arguments against me are fallacious. | ||
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Foolishness
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This is about why youngminii is mafia. I first suspected him early on day 1 when I posted: On August 06 2010 13:25 Foolishness wrote: Why wait until tonight when we got a lynch today? My reasoning for wanting to kill him was because he had yet to make a real contribution. He was posting frequently like we would all expect except he had yet to make a real contribution. Here are his posts longer than 2 lines: On August 06 2010 13:12 youngminii wrote: DT can use a proxy townie like was done last game with Zeks and lakrismamma. Also, how did the mafia suck at blue sniping last game? They got every single blue long before the end of the game (and the end of the game was significantly shortened BECAUSE they sniped every blue). You were the one playing like a total scrub early game, linking pretty much all the blues together and accusing them as a group of scum (remember your PM parade telling everyone to lynch Subversion?). I hope people don't use PMs to the same effect this game, I'd say stay very wary of most PMs early game (case in point: Subversion revealing to Pandain that he was DT without having checked Pandain, Pandain was in fact a miller, but still could have been very dangerous). I never found out how Subversion's DT role got leaked, that was well and truly stupid as fuck. This was about last game, nothing relevant. On August 06 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote: Why are you being so hard on Chez? I mean he's not BAD, but when people try to imitate him it's bad (case in point: DTA last game). I don't see why you're trying to force him to change his play when it works for him. Yeah it's annoying but if it works, it works. What's the bet that if Chez does change his style, bum will accuse him of being scum because of his changed ways? On August 06 2010 14:15 youngminii wrote: I'm not saying "LET'S NOT LYNCH CHEZ BECAUSE OF HIS STYLE! HE'S IMMUNE" I'm saying it's okay for him to play that way and anything that happens down the road that gives town cause to lynch him is fine, but immediately going to lynch him because of the way he always plays is dumb as fuck. Why don't you include the scenario where he possibly snipes a red? Bias bias bias. Look I'm not saying Chez isn't red, I'm just saying your reasoning for lynching him isn't valid at all. Here he is kinda defending Chez (but he says he isn't) and is refuting bumatlarge's post. Nothing relevant to the game at all, just telling bumatlarge what Chez's style is. It may seem like he's contributing but all he's saying is "this is how Chez plays, he may be mafia, he may not be", he doesn't provide any insight one way or the other. On August 06 2010 15:05 youngminii wrote: Maybe we are posting a bit too much (I don't think it's as much as last game lol).. Isn't the whole point of all this to generate discussion though? I mean, what else are we going to do, sit around and twiddle our thumbs? I found this post to be odd because it doesn't make sense. Here we have a spammer saying "let's not post" even though we all know posting generates discussion which is better for the town. He asks a lot of questions, just as a hesitant mafia would. On August 06 2010 18:43 youngminii wrote: Okay apparently BM can't see what's wrong with his plan. I shall outline them for you. If you are scum, we lose instantly. If you are town, 6 people will lie and you won't know who lied and who didn't and you can't publicly reveal them without exposing their identity. What are you going to do when all 6 scum claims town? Hmm? Oh right, nothing. Do you really, really, really think every single person will claim to you? Do you know how hard organisation is, especially on a forum? What are you going to do when the framer frames people? Uh oh. Can't be fucked listing anymore. May seem like a contribution, but he only repeated what had already been said by Pyrry, DTA, and others. Plus he just gives quick reasoning, instead of going into detail on possible scenarios as everyone else had done. This is typical of mafia behavior, they repeat what's already been said to make it look like they care and that they are contributing. And they do this without adding in thoughts of their own. On August 07 2010 20:16 youngminii wrote: I don't like the plan. What BM, are you gonna label me as red? So if anyone doesn't agree with your play, you label them as red. That's fucking ridiculous. Do you really want to see how a Day 1 plan turns out? It doesn't turn out well. Just because you think you've come up with some god awesome plan that'll save everyone doesn't mean it will. And you don't go FoSing everyone that doesn't want to use it. Let me tell you now, I'm good at finding out whether people are scum or not, remember Godfather mafia? Yeah I destroyed that game. Now hopefully I'll be able to weed out scum again but you going on about this god damn plan for 20 fucking pages doesn't help when the only fucking posts I can see are by you. Here I would like to transition into his previous games. We know from Godfather mafia that he helped the town win enormously. He has promised here that he's going to be able to weed out scum but he has not done any of it yet. In fact he hasn't done any analysis so far. Compare to a post from godfather mafia: On July 10 2010 18:09 youngminii wrote: You spelled my name wrong  While I'm not ruling out BC as a townie, I'm not convinced he's scum and I think there are other people that we should concentrate on, namely BM's four. The best play on scum's end would be to get rid of the DT (ie. me). Scum knows that I'm DT but they also know they can't touch me because of the jailing. The only way they can get rid of me for now is to sacrifice their KP for two nights. Hence my suspicions lead me to YI. He's the one who suggested/pushed forward the idea to roleblock me. As scum, he knows I am a DT and the best way to neutralize my ability is to roleblock me, knowing that he can't touch me otherwise. Sacrificing KP is a major blow to scum so instead of that, blocking me is the best option. Now I would have liked to see what his reaction would have been after finding out I was roleblocked (maybe I should've faked it) but since that's too late, there's no other place for me to lay my accusations. So if we end up lynching someone other than YI (like BB) then my check will go to YI tonight. Here we see analysis youngminii style. Actively laying out scenario and figuring out who's most suspicious. We see this again: [SPOILER]On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: My case on Chaoser. + Show Spoiler + Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler + And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes. I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die. Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first. ##unvote ##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time. Outside of the obvious fact that he's posting long stuff in this game, we see him actually doing analysis. Yes there is flaming in there as we would expect, but we still see him doing analysis of other people. This is good analysis he does, and he's yet to do any of that this game. Youngminii's attitude this game is very different from his past games. While the spam amount may be relatively the same, in the past youngminii actively analyzed people. This game he hasn't made any contribution and has only repeated what's already been said. I accused youngminii in order to see how he would react. Read my previous post where I talk about pressuring people. His response to my accusations is not good for him. He starts by instantly accusing me and backing up Pyrry's fallacious arguments. He then proceeds to just spam away arguments against me. On August 09 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote: What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. I haven't even been on in a day or so and you automatically assume I'm scum because you got hit. You know what I think? I think you faked the hit. I don't even know why you want me lynched, maybe you're scum and you think I'm not worth a night hit so you go for a lynch. On August 09 2010 13:54 youngminii wrote: Oh okay EXCUSE ME for trying to spam less, I'll be sure to go back to my last game style and spam the crap out of this thread. I've been busy with uni, thank you very much. And what have you contributed besides accusing me? Fake claiming doesn't count. On August 09 2010 14:08 youngminii wrote: Why are we voting Divinek? If we're gonna vote for someone completely random with no plan and no hard evidence I suggest foolishness. If he really is Vet, well he's lost his usefulness since he already soaked up a hit but I think he's scum trying to look active and pointing fingers everywhere. Obviously I have no evidence so if people want to vote someone else, be my guest but there's as much chance that foolishness is scum as Divinek/BM being scum. Better get rid of foolishness now if he really is fake claiming then trust him later (assuming he is scum). Part of this I totally expected. It's youngminii, if I accuse him, he's going to call me stupid and spam. However notice that he really never denies my accusation, he never claims to be innocent or deny being mafia. Instead he just spams "lynch foolishness, lynch foolishness". There's also no hard analysis against me. We saw in the previous games that he's very capable of doing analysis on players, yet all he has to say about me is that I'm useless and that I've faked claim for sure. No analysis at all, he just says I'm faking my claim. The important thing is that he still hasn't contributed. He immediately calls me a liar and says we need to lynch me. No behavior analysis (which we know he is capable of). Not to mention after the town got distracted off of him, he vanished again. Yes, not conclusive, but still convenient that once he saw it was a legit threat he vanished into lurking. Finally, Divinek pointed out his slip up: This slip up is more than enough reason to vote for him. He says I need to be lynched, then says my posts aren't scummy, then votes for me. That's classic mafia reaction. Summary: youngminii has not contributed all this game. We've seen in his past games that he is very capable of doing analysis on players. He was a big help in the town in in Godfather mafia. His final slip up at the end shows his overreaction to my accusation and only builds upon the case that he is mafia. youngminii is mafia | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Yeah I know, I saw right before you posted. But I needed to posted it as well. Plus I further complimented yours by citing his previous games. On August 10 2010 11:14 Bill Murray wrote: if he's green, or blue, though, you're going to die That'd be ironic since I'm the only one who's done anything for the town so far. On August 10 2010 11:19 bumatlarge wrote: So we are going for people who will give out more info when they die rather then people who alot of people agree looks like mafia? Im not being instigative I just want to know that this is a general town consensus. Im not sure who I should put my vote on :/ Vote for who you think is mafia. The whole "this person dead says this about person X" is not a good play when we have suspicious people and lurkers to kill. Especially early game this is generally not a good idea. When there are relatively few players, that's when linking people to others comes in handy. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
This is not the first time BM has come up with a ridiculous plan. The majority of us have been around to know that he does this nearly every game. And I say nearly because the times he doesn't are when he's mafia. PYP mafia comes to mind, he had the Inventor role and came up with all these ridiculous plans...the town was very upset with him until his death. In team melee mini mafia, BM was lynched day 1 for ridiculous plans: + Show Spoiler + On June 23 2010 15:59 Bill Murray wrote: just noticed this when re-reading over the thread. is there a term for when you want something to be so badly (you wanting me to be scum, and catch me) that you blindly try to create a scenario which doesn't exist? I will do what noone else is doing this game, and propose an actual plan to our lynch My proposal: lynch a team that has not cast the first vote on someone. "Who who is without sin cast the first stone" right? I am therefore going to assume that people who voted on other people as the first voters = town. Stacking votes = scummy. This may not be the case, but it is an interesting theory to me. So, we have the team list! I started a vote, and I have information about my role pm as to my alliance, so i am cleared List of first votes: + Show Spoiler + On June 22 2010 16:00 Chezinu wrote: ##Vote Team 1 On June 22 2010 11:57 johnnyspazz wrote: ##Vote L On June 22 2010 12:22 L wrote: ##Vote johnnyspazz On June 23 2010 03:20 YellowInk wrote: ##Vote: bumatlarge On June 23 2010 13:44 DarthThienAn wrote: unvote ##Vote: Team 9 Furthermore, Team 9 is split 3 ways. I don't know if this is inexperience or scumminess. They have someone voting for us, someone voting for slot 7, and someone abstaining. I am pretty sure I can dismiss them as VI. This leaves teams 7, 3, and 1. Since team 7 are voting with my team, and i know that we are not red, i am assuming they are either not scum or slot 7 isnt scum. To me this makes it either slot 3 or slot 7 that are scum, with me actually learning towards Zyrre for that post he made earlier seen here: his two other posts are in post 55 he is yet again worried about YI and in his first post, post 16, he is worried about the roleblocker's function in the setup with 7 townies. It makes me wonder... Team 3 I am completely unaware of, but bumatlarge did raise minor FoS from me earlier Team 1 has been very inactive. I cannot analyze Radfield for this as apparently he was inactive in his last game. Korynne is active, but a lot less than usual. No idea on my read on them, but they have yet to come up with their own idea on who to vote for which is scummy by my new theory I feel like the teams that sit back and/or jump on bandwagons are more likely to be scum I know that my team is not scum, and if we lynch one of these 4 teams I have highlighted, I guarantee we have a good chance of lynching scum, possibly higher than the 25% that could come from voting for a random team other than yourself with the information we have. On June 24 2010 01:11 Bill Murray wrote: I am not mafia because of this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119497 That is a game in which I played as mafia. I am providing that for you. Use it how you will. That game saw me generally making one liners and not providing any positive plan for the town. Early on I create a plan that even tries to advise for a no lynch, in this game I try to provide FOR a lynch in numerous scenarios which point towards the same team just on mathematical trends and heartfelt feelings. In that game, I mainly communicated out of the thread, on MSN with my mafia buddies. I tried to pm with just chez, but that's not my style. I'm not really that good one on one... I'm ok with like 5 guys, but not with one evidently. Chez and I work better on our own than together, whereas if it was Chez, myself, and another team it would be different and I would be concentrating out of the thread which would be limiting my post count/amount of words I actually type in the thread Another reason is the fact that when I am mafia I do not put myself out there like this because I do not want to be viewed as a "fuck up" as mafia. I have TONS of grammatical and spelling errors in relation to when I am not mafia for instance. In that game, I even miss-word something that ends up in me looking like I said I was mafia! That's the extent I fuck up when trying to type in the thread. Given these three reasons, I cannot be mafia in your eyes if you compare my play from this game and that game. -> What we need to do going forward: Bill Murray's 3-step plan 1) Create more discussion a. ask each other questions/create funny trends . why are you voting this way? . why are you inactive? . ace and L arguments . Nobody Cares! b. analyze past games of players . as town . as townie . as mafia 2)Use said discussion to scumhunt a. analyze scummy behavior . ad hom, ate, omgus, strawman, chainsaw, w/e . voting trends b. relate scummy behavior to player slots 3) Lynch mafia Night 1 post came up, BM showed up green. Pyrry's whole argument against me is that I defended BM, who he thinks is mafia. That's insufficient in itself, but Pyrry thinks BM is mafia mostly because of BM's ridiculous plan day 1. This is clearly not sufficient either since BM does this when he's town, and he very very very very frequently gets lynched for it. Considering his whole argument is based upon this assumption, his accusation against me falls to pieces as I'm part of a flimsy connection to a flimsy accusation. I was suspicious of Pandain day 1, but just because I said I'd vote for him does not mean we are buddy buddy. Pyrry is making us seem buddy buddy when it's clear that I was suspicious of BM day 1, and BM has been suspicious of me since day started. Pyrry, remember Pika Chu? For everyone else, in TL Mafia 5, Pyrry wanted to kill Pika Chu off of sketchy day one clue analysis. He spent the next few days pushing and pushing to get Pika Chu killed, without focus on anyone else: On March 17 2009 15:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: So I'm getting a clue. It's not exactly a raging clue, but for Day 1 it's pretty feisty. On March 17 2009 12:21 Chuiu wrote: "He got to the door just before the explosion and was caught in the shockwave." Shock Wave is a move that Pikachu can learn and there is a player named Pika Chu. I gave this a 1% probability of being a real clue. But now after a few thoughts I had in the shower I am much more suspicious... "One of the mafia complied and began lowering down to the ground, Chuiu raised his gun at the other and yelled at him to do the same. But while he did so the mafia lowering himself sprinted toward Chuiu and with his hands still behind his head grabbed the gun and threw it to the side. He tackled Chuiu to the ground and then ran over to the gun and armed himself with it." One of the mafia is standing up straight at rest, but then lowers himself to the ground while sprinting... just like Pikachu! This Mafia grabs the gun even though his hands are behind his back... this wouldn't be a problem for Pikachu, who carries the ray gun from Super Smash Bros. in his mouth while running around. Furthermore, Pikachu holds the gun from SSB behind in his hands behind his head while leaned over when he fires it... Then this mafia tackles Chuiu. Well Pikachu can't learn tackle in the Game Boy game, but I'm pretty sure he uses it in the TV show, and I know he can use it in the card game: ![[image loading]](http://www.pokebeach.com/scans/expedition/124-pikachu.jpg) Finally, chuiu has posted in this Smash Bros thread so I assume he'd be at least somewhat familiar with this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=42012¤tpage=2 EDIT with addition: "They approached Chuiu slowly and he backed up to a safer distance keeping the gun aimed at them. When they stopped he lowered the gun slightly and told them to put their hands behind their backs and get on the ground, then he yelled at the third person to get out of the car." The mention of slightly lowering the gun indicates to me that Chuiu is still aiming the gun at these mafia but that one or both of them is short; if Chuiu wanted to say he was completely lowering the gun he wouldn't have used that modifier. Pika Chu was shot by the mafia after a few days. The point is that Pyrry can get overly stubborn, and his attitude about BM and myself is similar to how he was against Pika Chu. He was so sure he was right he didn't focus on anything else. My argument on why youngminii is mafia is not like Pyrrys. I have evidence and posts supporting that he's acting different from when he's town. He has yet to contribute all game, and he freaked out and counter voted for me when I accused him. His further slip up when he says he didn't think I was scum only further adds to his case. None of this can be disputed. What this comes down to is who is trying to help the town win and who doesn't care. I am the one who is trying to get information from PMs, PMs specifically because Pyrry keeps spamming the thread making it impossible to have anything meaningful stick, I am the one looking at past history of everyone in question, analyzing posts of the people who are out of place and trying to blend in. Is this absolutely consistent of when I have been town before ? Yes. Now answer me this, what has youngminii done to help the town? Virtually nothing. Is this what he does when he is town? No! | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 13:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I agree with Tree Hugger 100% We always make the wrong decision by shunning people who make "bad plans" (aka lynching them). We should be looking for more suspicious players, and right now Chezinu, Foolishness and YM both come to mind. It's obvious that something fishy is going on. I don't know if Chezinu is trying to bait certain players or if he's just playing target practice as a townie, it just doesn't add up. Youngminii is doing what I have done a few times myself, and I can understand his frustration, but it puts you on the spotlight very easily. There's a difference between a rational argument and an irrational bread crumbing war. The latter almost never works and you will never get "mafia" to jump on you. Typically it turns out to be the town. This is good because you "know" that they are probably pro-town, but you're painting a LARGE target on your back. I'm a bit disturbed over this hit Foolishness took last night. We don't actually know if he took a hit, and though the numbers make sense, it could be a setup. We could be allowing a trap to manifest itself. Logically we should either lynch or check that player, but with the framer running around this isn't a bread and butter night action (wham bam thank you ma'am kinda deal). I'm still voting for myself for now, but my vote is probably going to Chezinu if he doesn't step it up. I still want to see more contributions from Chez, Foolishness, and YM. I'm explained everything now, read my posts. My argument against youngminii is based on a differing of attitude, lack of contribution, his slip up on his counter vote, and his bad responses to my accusation. Pyrry's argument is solely based off of the fact that BM tried the same plan when he was mafia. Nothing about attitude, nothing about contribution, no slips up or bad reactions. I already showed that BM has been known to do crazy things as town. Pyrry says BM did the same thing he did this game as mafia. But BM has made plenty of crazy plans when he's town, and he gets lynched for it more than anyone else. I can understand that it's the exact same plan, but that's not conclusive evidence since BM makes crazy plans every game. Pyrry is using selective evidence for his accusation, and is further exemplifying it by extending it to me being mafia. I'm considering everything that youngminii has done up to and including his past games and all his posts this game. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 18 2010 04:13 Bill Murray wrote: well, the best strategy going forward has been detailed by me already This is BM's plan. It details having the assassins kill each. Nothing about getting all the blues to claim to him. I'm looking through and not seeing anything close to getting everyone to claim to BM. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Although notice that I site past games and posts as evidence while Pyrry does not. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 13:53 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Foolishness has been claiming in thread that he has been suspicious of Bill Murray (remember the two anti-Bill Murray posts he quoted; he said that he was not allied with Bill Murray). Foolishness claimed I was stupid for thinking anyone would cough up blue roles to Bill Murray just because he asked for them. Foolishness has now apparently coughed up BLUE ROLES to the Bill Murray who supposedly wasn't really blue fishing but joking around and supposedly wasn't allied with Foolishness at all. This does not add up. Lynch Bill Murray. Proceed from there. When did I call you stupid? Be sensible and quote posts in your arguments. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
In the game these posts are from, I was able to get 2 mafia killed, ecomania and motbob, before the mafia killed me. At my time of death I had another 3 figured out, but it was too late for the town. Pyrry was spamming away the thread in this game and managed to get BC killed, in a similar fashion to what's happening this game. In that game I couldn't save BC and the town lost as a result of it. Don't let Pyrry do the same thing again, whether he's town or mafia is irrelevant. youngminii is mafia, and it took Pyrry a long time to defend him, and his defense of youngminii boiled down to "he's probably busy". Aren't all mafia lurkers "probably busy"? Think about who's doing more to find mafia. Pyrry has been banking on BM being mafia all game, and me being directly related to that. I've been actively PMing people to weed the mafia out of the inactives. This game is about killing mafia, not about confirming innocents or whose lynch will give us the most information. + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2009 08:00 Foolishness wrote: Alright I'm going to spell this out for you slowly. I hope you'll understand. Both Pyrry and BC have claimed I have sent them messages telling them to stop accusing the other person. This is very true. Let's try to outline the cases: 1) I am mafia, and one of BC/Pyrry is mafia. This doesn't make much sense, as I'd only send the message to one of them and not both. I would be trying to help get the other person lynched. 2) I am mafia, none of BC/Pyrry are mafia. This makes no sense as I would enjoy laughing on the sidelines watching two innocents kill each other. 3) I am innocent and both BC/Pyrry are innocent. AHA! NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE! If I am innocent, and I think both BC and Pyrry are innocent then it's obvious that there is nothing to be gained from BC and Pyrry trying to kill each other. It makes sense that I would try to break it up (and then work with them) in order to try to kill potential mafia. The way I see it, two innocents are trying to get each other killed, this is obviously bad. I have left out a few cases but those are trivial (at least I hope they are). Let's examine what the mafia is doing. I looked up at the town list just recently, and counted the number of people that had not posted at all or had made a small amount of posts. I counted eleven people (obviously, this number is somewhat subjective). Where do you think the mafia are people? Do you think they are in the group of me, redtooth, Lucas, BC, Pyrry, arguing incessently among themselves? Or, are they sitting back in the group of eleven people doing nothing and watching things happen? Should be an obvious answer. THE MAFIA ARE SITTING BACK DOING NOTHING. It's pretty clear that probably none of the mafia members have posted recently. What need is there to post when five of the townspeople are trying to kill each other? This is why I tried to break up the BC/Pyrry fight. It's in no way helping the town. In fact, it's helping the mafia. At this point, let me say something about ecomania. I believe that ecomania is a mafia, as well as a safe lynch today. (Yes I know we got two lynches to work with). As I stated in my previous post, which I'm sure none of you read, ecomania is a contributer to the mass ydg voting that almost got ydg killed over TruthBringer. This was an obvious attempt by the mafia to save TruthBringer, as they were able to tie the vote at one point, and almost succeed in killing ydg. This was an obvious cover up. He didn't want to just change votes without saying anything as that would make him look more suspicious. ecomania has also done a marvelous job of contributing without posting anything useful or helpful to the town. Consider: The second of these came after BC put ecomania on his suspicious list. As we can see, ecomania is clearly dodging everything that's said. His first post merely restates what had already been said numerous times. His second post is his defense on lack of contributing. He finds contributing "unnecessary" so he just "[reads] the thread and submitted [his] weather/emperor votes". He also states he will try to participate and help with clue analysis. You shouldn't need me to tell you that none of that has happened. DONT BE FOOLED BY THE BC AND PYRRY FIGHT. Both of these people are clearly innocent and fighting over nothing. It's obvious that ecomania should be lynched. At the very least, it's much safer to kill ecomania than to try to kill BC or Pyrry. BC and Pyrry are both active contributors (although both are stupid), and we can be nearly certain mafia are sitting back hiding among the inactives. On July 12 2009 12:22 Foolishness wrote: Alright since I have a high chance of dying tonight I'm going to help you all on tomorrow's lynch. motbob is the godfather Let me detail why he is at the very least mafia, and then the reasoning behind my suspicion of him being the GF. motbob must be mafia because of the voting pattern. Consider his posts just yesterday about BC. The fact of the matter is, motbob voted at a very crucial point in the votes. At the time BC was down by two votes to ecomania (Kuja far ahead in the lead). motbob made wishy washy posts as above, then tossing his two votes on BC. This was easily the changing point in the vote because it allowed for potential mafia to put BC over the line. However Pyrry's votes made this unnecessary (unless Pyrry is mafia as well). As I stated, motbob was wishy washy about the vote, as in this next quote from earlier, he's actually against BC getting lynched because he wants the double lynches. As a side note, his argument that everyone who voted for BC also voted for TruthBringer (which was true at the time of his post) does not mean anything. We know mafia need to spread out their votes, especially considering list checks are available now. It's just as likely that the mafia who were on TruthBringer's list (as there had to be a few) also voted for BC. motbob would make this post, as well as putting it in bold, because those people voting for BC are probably mafia as well. He makes this statement to divert attention off his fellow mafia members. Another big point to make is that motbob is the first person to point out that there was a save during the night. Nobody else had noticed this fact, it's obvious he'd be the first to point it out, at a very late time might I add, because he was mafia and his hits did not go through. Back to the voting argument, motbob was also part of the reason TruthBringer almost did not get lynched the night before. I have stated in a previous post, and I will say again, that TruthBringer was ahead by a score of 9 to 4, which is a pretty decent lead, until a bunch of votes piled on in a very short timeframe. One of these came from motbob. Another one came from econmania, who I still suspect of being mafia, especially since the mafia had control over the votes the past night, they were able to save ecomania from getting lynched. motbob is the GF If you look through the thread, motbob has made quite a decent amount of posts, considering the number of inactives this game. However none of these have ever been more than a few sentences as he has yet to really "contribute" to the town. Considering the number of posts he's made, there has been very little discussion about him. Anyone who posts as much as him is bound to get attention, except his lack of useful posting prevents this. He restates what's already been said, gives short posts about his opinions, making it appear that he's an active townsperson. The only problem is is that he's not contributing at all. As I stated before, Mafia is easily hiding among the inactives. It's a shame Kuja900 was innocent, but that narrows down the list even more. Why is motbob posting a lot? Because he's not afraid, which is clearly a GF attitude. As we have seen in past mafia games, mafia do not post a lot because they are afraid of drawing attention to themselves. The only exception is with the GF as he has no fear of being rolechecked. And even if he is suspicious, he can merit being on a DT check list. motbob is playing the game like an unafraid mafia member, which is clearly a GF behavior more than a normal mafia member behavior. This is why I suspect motbob of being the GF. TOWN LYNCH TOMORROW NEEDS TO BE MOTBOB This will reduce mafia killpower by one. If everybody votes Sunny as well assassins (assuming they survive the night) have good targets as well. This was my first game of mafia, I was detective and a similar situation happened. I had to claim DT last minute to try to save the town from continually lynching townies. The town lost but I was correct on the majority of my mafia picks. My style is the same as this game, I tried to pick out the mafia from the inactives while the town fought amongst themselves. Both these games show that I'm very capable at finding mafia amongst the inactives. And youngminii is not a different case at all. + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2009 15:04 Foolishness wrote: Okay this should not be happening, but it's going to. I am the detective. I have orchestrated events in the past 24 hours in order to try to lure out mafia (such as the accusement of motbob). Due to the recent inactivity, it is necessary for me to come out. It is important you listen to me because I AM YOUR ONE CHANCE FOR TOWN TO WIN. Nobody else believes it is possible, but I can make it possible. From all the intel I have gathered, mostly working with teks here, it is reasonable to assume that these 5 people are mafia: ydg, wurm, pawsom, l10f, phelix. I know all of the blue roles, the only way this list is wrong is if these guys are townspeople. I am the detective that inspected l10f and got a thumbs up. Because his behavior is very suspicious I have sure he is actually mafia and not a miller. The reason there is not a heavy movement against him is because most of the other blue roles think he is mafia. I will outline my arguments against him later. The important thing that we learn is that Ra.Xor.2 IS NOT MAFIA!. This is evident due to his inactivity. The past 3 days, all the mafia has done is sit around and watch the townspeople kill themselves. In all three town decisions, somebody was lynched due to "suspicious inactivity". The case is exactly the same with Ra.Xor.2. Jayme even admitted it that he felt there was no point in defending himself so he didn't. I am sure Ra.Xor.2 feels the same way. I know lots of you believe that "clues point to Ra.Xor.2". I think we can all agree that behavior and voting analysis says a lot more than relying on ambiguous clues of which we know absolutely nothing about (especially because this is Pyrry's first game). Thus it is important we do not take this stuff for granted (as we have in the past). If we keep sitting around like we have been this entire day mafia are going to win!. I am the only chance we have left to win. As l10f has convieniently laid out for us we need to lynch two mafia otherwise it's gg. Lynching Ra.Xor.2 is just fitting into the mafia plan. Even if Pawsom is mafia they can afford to sacrifice one person. Although most of the evidence against Pawsom is based on clues, I have found some interesting posts about him: obviously double lynches help the townspeople, as it gives more chances to kill a mafia. Lack of wanting to kill mafia is .... Most of Pawsom's posts after the first day consist of him trying to pinpoint clues to people. However notice how he usually states things that have already been noticed by other players. Although it may seem like he is contributing, he is not; he's just restating things to appear like he's a helpful townsperson. I would like to point attention now to ydg. His recent posting is up for suspicion. Do you really think mafia is shooting itself? By hitting unsuspected people, the mafia have avoided medic saves (except last night) and now we are in quite a rut. The mafia is so close to winning right now. In addition, ydg also took a long time to roleclaim to teks. His recent posts about the clues is useless to the town, same with Pawsom's attempt to analyze past days' posts. l10f is also guilty of mafia behavior. As I said he for sure came up mafia in the role check. teks is convinced he's a miller based on a list l10f sent him. It looks like this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is in order of whom I think is most likely to be mafia to the least 1. Chaoser <- I think his is definite 2. Ra.Xor.2 <- If he roleclaimed townie, I'm pretty sure 3. wurm <- Clues pointing to him a lot 4. epicdoom <- see my past post on him 5. clazziquai 6. phelix the bottom two I'm not too sure of. Good luck. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can tell you for sure, based on the numbers, at least 3 people on the list have to be mafia. What's the point in sending this list to teks? teks already knows nearly everybody's roles. Not to mention teks is not going to do anything about this. If he had posted it in thread with actual evidence, it would be a different story. Not to mention his opinions on each person are rather simple. "I think his is definite", "clues pointing to him a lot" hold absolute no meaning. Why he send a list to teks then? He wants to appear that he is indeed trying to help the town by thinking of a list of suspicions. He knows teks knows nearly everything, and put his own comrades on it to not look suspicious. Had he sent a list with just three people on it, it'd probably be safe to assume those three people are not mafia. Instead he tried to hide. Furthermore look at this post The only useful thing is the countdown, which I might add we have already figured out multiple times. See a pattern? Notice how he keeps repeating things already said "millers living...need two mafia kills today". He refuses to defend himself, saying all the clues are "weak". At the end, he posts a "We can do it!", almost sarcastic. His talks about Shikyo mean nothing. Overall he is not contributing at all to the town. Most of his other posts are lacking in anything useful, most of the time merely restating something already been said. In one post he even says I think this screams mafia more than anything. He doesn't want to say anything at all, and this coincides with the mafia strategy: sit back and watch the town kill themselves. He says he'd try to contribute to the town, we know that didn't happen. The recent accusation against motbob was to try to see if any other mafia would take the bait. So far, wurm is the only one who did. I am suspicious of him as well. Summary: We cannot lynch Ra.Xor.2. So far we have only lynched townspeople, and they all have the same "there's nothing I can do" attitude. This time we can learn from our mistakes. l10f, ydg, Pawsom are for sure mafia. Wurm is suspicious as well. It's important we vote two mafia tonight. By listening to me, the town can win. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 14:06 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here is Bill Murray as Godfather asking for blues to role claim publically -This plan was presented Day 1. -Basically, his plan was to group people in twos. If a group of two did not contain an assassin (called ninja's in this game) they were supposed to claim publically. Think about how high the odds are there. In this game, there are 2-4 ninjas. So if we did this plan here, it is basically presenting a Day 1 plan asking 22-28 of the 30 town's people to publically claim their role. That's a very different plan from what BM suggested this game. I don't even think you and I should be debating this, let's let BM decide what's what on this one. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 14:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Foolishness is so certain that this game is shaping up like a previous game. I am too. Read this post of Zona trying to deal with Bill Murray's Godfather plan. He is like my fricking clone or something. + Show Spoiler + On April 18 2010 05:42 Zona wrote: Wait...you were serious about your "everyone is an assassin" post? And you want everyone to roleclaim so early? First of all, if someone is an assassin, they aren't going to claim assassin. That's just setting a big target on their backs so that the other assassins can kill them. And if we mass roleclaim we just allow the mafia to choose the most valuable power roles to kill at night. Also - how am I derailing the town? I'm pointing out the fishy parts of BC's posts and posting my own proposed plan with reasoning to back it up. Here's Bill Murray's plan in spoilers for those that want to reference it. It was so silly I thought it was a joke. + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2010 05:13 Bill Murray wrote: everyone is an assassin here's what we're going to do: The first half of the list is required to assassinate the 2nd half of the list. The list will be inverted the next day so everyone will get their turn to kill someone if they are an assassin. They won't want to be using their kills up every single night anyways, as they can use a Detective Check on the alternate night. I will be cutting the game list into a 1/2 order. 1s are killers, 2s are killees. It will switch the next night. If you are a killer or a killee, don't complain. In all likelihood you won't have to kill or be killed, as we are not sure how many assassins there are. If the mafia kill a killee in the night, we skip a lynch to balance it (hypothetically), but if they kill a killer then we will lynch the killee of the person that they killed the killer of. I hope this is making sense to you. If anyone has any questions about the Bill Murray plan of town success let me know. This plan will help the town as it will be putting mafia players in vulnerable "killee" positions in which they would potentially lynch the "killer". We use the assassins to win as a town. They COUNT as town people, so assassins will want the town to win. It will also be giving them chances to win the game for theirselves through killing other assassins and finding assassins that they can kill at any time during the night that we aren't asking them to kill for us. If they find an assassin, they can breadcrumb a message to us previously or something to let us know BEFORE they do the action that they will be killing an alternate person (this will guarantee that they stay town as we let them go towards their goal while we go towards our goal together). I don't want assassins to claim at first, but it will become obvious after the first 2 cycles on who they are anyways, so we can be a lot more organized after the first couple day/night cycles. Except the previous game is where you ruined the town and got a bunch of townies lynch. Granted you were mafia, but still. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I have some things that need to get said: First off, since people still seem to be confused about this I am a Veteran. Last night I took a hit and I did not have a medic on me. This does not confirm me 100% but I want to be clear about this because I have nothing to hide. Pyrry claims in his recap that I was "furiously defending BM right at the start of the game". As some of you may know during the first day I pushed Pyrry to post his list of suspects (it was clear he wanted to kill BM, but he said he had a list going). It was at this post that he first accused me of being mafia with BM and that I chainsawed BM. I would now like to refute all of these points. I have never "furiously defended BM". Up until the point where Pyrry accused me of chainsaw, my posts mainly consisted of one liners about Chezinu and smurfs and killing youngminii. My other posts (that had content) consisted of a suspicion of Pandain: On August 06 2010 13:07 Foolishness wrote: I think we should seriously take a look at this brodooski...he's yet to make any real contribution, despite an overflowing of posts. He got pretty defensive when divinek voted for him, which isn't fool proof I know, but it's definitely something to take note of. Bill Murray, I may not have any idea how you're playing these days, but I'd totally support you against this brodooski. And also includes me going AGAINST Bill Murray: On August 06 2010 12:18 Foolishness wrote: Bill Murray's attitude is awfully serious for his norm... On August 06 2010 12:37 Foolishness wrote: I once new a guy who swore by the fact that the third person to talk at the start of the first day was mafia. Yes...you just reminded me of him...did I mention he was never right about anything? Before Pyrry accused me in the thread I had nothing supporting Bill Murray. In fact, I was suspicious of him for acting outside his norm! I hadn't played a game with him in a bit so apparently I was wrong about what his norm was, but up to this point I had not furiously defended BM. After I had asked Pyrry to post his list he says: On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you. Let me clarify that a chainsaw defense is when a person defends another by accusing the attacker. If you look through my posts I have never accused Pyrry of being mafia, I simply asked him for his list because if he was pro-town, he would post it. Let me also both out he says I chainsawed against Divinek. Divinek was voting for larjarse at the time, so that doesn't make any sense. I will also say that Divinek had only one vote at the time (from bumatlarge), and there was no longer much focus on Divinek compared to earlier in the day. My response to his post was: On August 07 2010 09:40 Foolishness wrote: Awww I'm touched <3 I would think it's obvious to any town player that lynching a player who's actively participating and defending against arguments is foolish. How many times have you seen a mafia player that isn't Ace/L actively tell people they are wrong/stupid and defend their beliefs to the last moment they die? Hardly ever. Imma wait at least another 2 days before ever considering voting for any of you. Truth is, I barely give a care as to whether BM or you or DTA or divinek is mafia. Cause all you active people do is blame each other and find reasons why the other is mafia. If one of you is actually mafia, I'm sure one of the others will figure it out sooner or later. I got bigger fish to fry in figuring out who's mafia among the other 50% of the players who half lurk. Now wait a minute...you're supposedly a ninja and getting killed by other ninja's tonight. If I was mafia why would I bother hitting you? Haha, I actually kinda lol'd when I read your post, because it's insanely obvious you improvised the entire thing. I've seen better reasoning for suspicions out of totally new players. Have you even read my posts to consider if I'm actually mafia? I'm pretty sure you're too concerned with BM right now to even care who else is mafia. Which is fine by me, you do what you got to do and I'll do what I got to do. One person is not a list. You got any others you want to throw out there? My intention with this post was to get him to clam down, because I was actively hunting mafia through the lurkers. I mention that I don't care whether him or BM or any other active is mafia, which was true. That would be my only defense of BM, which wasn't even a defense. I was not chainsawing here either, if that was true I would've accused Pyrry of being mafia, which I have yet to do all game long. Pyrry says I buddied up with BM. It's clear that I was suspicious of him, not trying to buddy up. Pyrry further said he didn't mean I chainsawed against Divinek, but against Pandain (he made a typo in his post). This further does not make sense since Pandain wasn't even against BM at the time (Pandain had voted for Chezinu). In conclusion I did not chainsaw defend BM, all my relevant posts are here as proof. I never accused Pyrry, only asked him to post his list. Pyrry in his analysis of me says I'm acting outside my normal behavior as town. I can easily refute this by showing my behavior from past games: When I am town or town-aligned, I am very active in hunting down mafia, especially behind the scenes. In Plexa's Summer Session Mafia, I was active in PMing everyone, and before I died I had convinced the town to kill 2 mafia, and I had figured out a few others. Pyrry was in this game as mafia and he knows. One of the things I do when I'm town in order to figure out who's mafia is pressuring people in the thread. I call them out in the thread to see how they respond and try to figure out alignment that way. This is apparent in every game I've been in from my first. In the first game I played in (hosted by Pyrry) I called out Shikyo in the thread and pushed him hard to prove himself. From this I was able to deduce he was innocent and we were able to form a town circle. I consistently do this because I want to see how people react when I call them out. In fact I did it this game when I asked Pyrry to post his mafia list. In Incognito's mafia XXVII I pushed flamewheel hard. If the game hadn't ended he was my top suspect to lynch because of his reaction. Compare this to my games when I'm mafia. While I try to be active, it's not uncommon for me to hide amongst the lurkers. Furthermore, I PM a lot less than normal. In Flamwheel's Mafia XX, where I was the GF, I believe the only person I talked to in PMs was Incognito (minus a short stint with L). In Incognito's double mafia family game, I barely posted as I sat back sniping blues/reds. I didn't post very much until the town was half dead and after Chezinu inspected me. My behavior this games only shows that I'm innocent and not mafia. I think I have talked with more than 50% of this town in PMs, and I know more than enough of you can vouch that I'm very active talking to everyone. I would like to further emphasize my post on page 41 at the start of night 1. I told everyone exactly what I was doing, and I think people can vouch that I haven't swayed from what I said. Summary: My posts clearly indicate I was never "furiously defending BM". There was never any chainsaw defense since I never accused Pyrry. I am acting in accordance with my normal town playstyle, definitely not my mafia play. The majority of my posts are quoted here as proof. This does not prove me 100% innocent, but shows that Pyrry's arguments against me are fallacious. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
youngminii This is about why youngminii is mafia. I first suspected him early on day 1 when I posted: On August 06 2010 13:25 Foolishness wrote: Why wait until tonight when we got a lynch today? My reasoning for wanting to kill him was because he had yet to make a real contribution. He was posting frequently like we would all expect except he had yet to make a real contribution. Here are his posts longer than 2 lines: On August 06 2010 13:12 youngminii wrote: DT can use a proxy townie like was done last game with Zeks and lakrismamma. Also, how did the mafia suck at blue sniping last game? They got every single blue long before the end of the game (and the end of the game was significantly shortened BECAUSE they sniped every blue). You were the one playing like a total scrub early game, linking pretty much all the blues together and accusing them as a group of scum (remember your PM parade telling everyone to lynch Subversion?). I hope people don't use PMs to the same effect this game, I'd say stay very wary of most PMs early game (case in point: Subversion revealing to Pandain that he was DT without having checked Pandain, Pandain was in fact a miller, but still could have been very dangerous). I never found out how Subversion's DT role got leaked, that was well and truly stupid as fuck. This was about last game, nothing relevant. On August 06 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote: Why are you being so hard on Chez? I mean he's not BAD, but when people try to imitate him it's bad (case in point: DTA last game). I don't see why you're trying to force him to change his play when it works for him. Yeah it's annoying but if it works, it works. What's the bet that if Chez does change his style, bum will accuse him of being scum because of his changed ways? On August 06 2010 14:15 youngminii wrote: I'm not saying "LET'S NOT LYNCH CHEZ BECAUSE OF HIS STYLE! HE'S IMMUNE" I'm saying it's okay for him to play that way and anything that happens down the road that gives town cause to lynch him is fine, but immediately going to lynch him because of the way he always plays is dumb as fuck. Why don't you include the scenario where he possibly snipes a red? Bias bias bias. Look I'm not saying Chez isn't red, I'm just saying your reasoning for lynching him isn't valid at all. Here he is kinda defending Chez (but he says he isn't) and is refuting bumatlarge's post. Nothing relevant to the game at all, just telling bumatlarge what Chez's style is. It may seem like he's contributing but all he's saying is "this is how Chez plays, he may be mafia, he may not be", he doesn't provide any insight one way or the other. On August 06 2010 15:05 youngminii wrote: Maybe we are posting a bit too much (I don't think it's as much as last game lol).. Isn't the whole point of all this to generate discussion though? I mean, what else are we going to do, sit around and twiddle our thumbs? I found this post to be odd because it doesn't make sense. Here we have a spammer saying "let's not post" even though we all know posting generates discussion which is better for the town. He asks a lot of questions, just as a hesitant mafia would. On August 06 2010 18:43 youngminii wrote: Okay apparently BM can't see what's wrong with his plan. I shall outline them for you. If you are scum, we lose instantly. If you are town, 6 people will lie and you won't know who lied and who didn't and you can't publicly reveal them without exposing their identity. What are you going to do when all 6 scum claims town? Hmm? Oh right, nothing. Do you really, really, really think every single person will claim to you? Do you know how hard organisation is, especially on a forum? What are you going to do when the framer frames people? Uh oh. Can't be fucked listing anymore. May seem like a contribution, but he only repeated what had already been said by Pyrry, DTA, and others. Plus he just gives quick reasoning, instead of going into detail on possible scenarios as everyone else had done. This is typical of mafia behavior, they repeat what's already been said to make it look like they care and that they are contributing. And they do this without adding in thoughts of their own. On August 07 2010 20:16 youngminii wrote: I don't like the plan. What BM, are you gonna label me as red? So if anyone doesn't agree with your play, you label them as red. That's fucking ridiculous. Do you really want to see how a Day 1 plan turns out? It doesn't turn out well. Just because you think you've come up with some god awesome plan that'll save everyone doesn't mean it will. And you don't go FoSing everyone that doesn't want to use it. Let me tell you now, I'm good at finding out whether people are scum or not, remember Godfather mafia? Yeah I destroyed that game. Now hopefully I'll be able to weed out scum again but you going on about this god damn plan for 20 fucking pages doesn't help when the only fucking posts I can see are by you. Here I would like to transition into his previous games. We know from Godfather mafia that he helped the town win enormously. He has promised here that he's going to be able to weed out scum but he has not done any of it yet. In fact he hasn't done any analysis so far. Compare to a post from godfather mafia: On July 10 2010 18:09 youngminii wrote: You spelled my name wrong While I'm not ruling out BC as a townie, I'm not convinced he's scum and I think there are other people that we should concentrate on, namely BM's four. The best play on scum's end would be to get rid of the DT (ie. me). Scum knows that I'm DT but they also know they can't touch me because of the jailing. The only way they can get rid of me for now is to sacrifice their KP for two nights. Hence my suspicions lead me to YI. He's the one who suggested/pushed forward the idea to roleblock me. As scum, he knows I am a DT and the best way to neutralize my ability is to roleblock me, knowing that he can't touch me otherwise. Sacrificing KP is a major blow to scum so instead of that, blocking me is the best option. Now I would have liked to see what his reaction would have been after finding out I was roleblocked (maybe I should've faked it) but since that's too late, there's no other place for me to lay my accusations. So if we end up lynching someone other than YI (like BB) then my check will go to YI tonight. Here we see analysis youngminii style. Actively laying out scenario and figuring out who's most suspicious. We see this again: [SPOILER]On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: My case on Chaoser. + Show Spoiler + Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler + And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes. I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die. Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first. ##unvote ##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler + On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time. Outside of the obvious fact that he's posting long stuff in this game, we see him actually doing analysis. Yes there is flaming in there as we would expect, but we still see him doing analysis of other people. This is good analysis he does, and he's yet to do any of that this game. Youngminii's attitude this game is very different from his past games. While the spam amount may be relatively the same, in the past youngminii actively analyzed people. This game he hasn't made any contribution and has only repeated what's already been said. I accused youngminii in order to see how he would react. Read my previous post where I talk about pressuring people. His response to my accusations is not good for him. He starts by instantly accusing me and backing up Pyrry's fallacious arguments. He then proceeds to just spam away arguments against me. On August 09 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote: What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. I haven't even been on in a day or so and you automatically assume I'm scum because you got hit. You know what I think? I think you faked the hit. I don't even know why you want me lynched, maybe you're scum and you think I'm not worth a night hit so you go for a lynch. On August 09 2010 13:54 youngminii wrote: Oh okay EXCUSE ME for trying to spam less, I'll be sure to go back to my last game style and spam the crap out of this thread. I've been busy with uni, thank you very much. And what have you contributed besides accusing me? Fake claiming doesn't count. On August 09 2010 14:08 youngminii wrote: Why are we voting Divinek? If we're gonna vote for someone completely random with no plan and no hard evidence I suggest foolishness. If he really is Vet, well he's lost his usefulness since he already soaked up a hit but I think he's scum trying to look active and pointing fingers everywhere. Obviously I have no evidence so if people want to vote someone else, be my guest but there's as much chance that foolishness is scum as Divinek/BM being scum. Better get rid of foolishness now if he really is fake claiming then trust him later (assuming he is scum). Part of this I totally expected. It's youngminii, if I accuse him, he's going to call me stupid and spam. However notice that he really never denies my accusation, he never claims to be innocent or deny being mafia. Instead he just spams "lynch foolishness, lynch foolishness". There's also no hard analysis against me. We saw in the previous games that he's very capable of doing analysis on players, yet all he has to say about me is that I'm useless and that I've faked claim for sure. No analysis at all, he just says I'm faking my claim. The important thing is that he still hasn't contributed. He immediately calls me a liar and says we need to lynch me. No behavior analysis (which we know he is capable of). Not to mention after the town got distracted off of him, he vanished again. Yes, not conclusive, but still convenient that once he saw it was a legit threat he vanished into lurking. Finally, Divinek pointed out his slip up: This slip up is more than enough reason to vote for him. He says I need to be lynched, then says my posts aren't scummy, then votes for me. That's classic mafia reaction. Summary: youngminii has not contributed all this game. We've seen in his past games that he is very capable of doing analysis on players. He was a big help in the town in in Godfather mafia. His final slip up at the end shows his overreaction to my accusation and only builds upon the case that he is mafia. youngminii is mafia | ||
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On August 10 2010 15:04 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: It's not day 1 anymore; we can't get anywhere voting for inactivity all game. If we lynch the active mafia, the others will get more active. Your plans are anti-town. They don't get the information flowing - they get you FoS'd and town distracted. Or they get you the blue roles if you are Godfather like last time. Well, you aren't Godfather this game because there was too much Day 1 suspicion on you. How does lynching an active mafia make the others more active? Lynching an inactive or lurking mafia makes the others more active. Lynching inactive or lurking towns gets the mafia active (not to the same degree, but makes them scared). | ||
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On August 11 2010 02:32 XeliN wrote: Ok, there are still a select number of people who have not yet roleclaimed to me. Let me be perfectly clear, I was visited last night by a slew of people, I claim publically to be 100% confirmed, without possible doubt whatsoever, by the trackers who visited me last night as well as others. If I am lying in this then I would undoubtedly be called out by now. If your town, and have still not PM'd me your role now would be a most helpful time to do so, there are still a select number of people who have not, and amongst them i suspect there might be an important or possibly some important roles to us. It's getting to the point where we can eliminate mafia simply by process of elimination or force them into a position of fake roleclaiming. So to surmise. If your town and have not yet contacted me about your role. DO SO PLEASE, it would be invaluably helpful. Can you explain how you're 100% confirmed innocent? You don't have to give away blue roles, but if you have proof based on night actions you need to say so. I say this because you are pushing really hard to figure out the remaining blues (if there is any, I don't know how many you know). If you were someone with an ego I could understand your attitude but I've worked with before and I know this is outside your standard behavior. | ||
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On August 12 2010 08:34 SouthRawrea wrote: Oh yeah you've been doing so well. I found a mafia and got him to slip up further proving he's probably guilty. On August 12 2010 08:34 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: So Rastaban claimed ninja to me and said he checked Foolishness and got back veteran. He now says that he was just mouthing for Pandain. I heard from BC that Pandain supposedly checked BrownBear. So if Rastaban or Foolishness flips red, lynch the other one, especially if Foolishness were to flip godfather hiding as veteran. Other than that I don't know too much. It worries me that Xelin has been unable to figure anything out better than what I have on my own, but perhaps tonight actions will be coordinated to town's liking... Which is funny because I heard that Pandain checked Xelin and got mafia as a result. | ||
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On August 10 2010 07:15 XeliN wrote: At this point I am urging anyone who hasn't roleclaimed to me already to do so, I'm only able to verify myself 100% to people who I can in turn verify, but if anyone is willing to trust at this point and claim to me it would be quite helpful. I guess it might be obvious at this point that If I was lying in what i've been asserting then I would have been called out by now, and that hopefully is enough to persuade people of my innocence. But anyway plz claim to me, especially the WATCHER.... who im starting to think is not even in this game which would be a great shame On August 11 2010 02:32 XeliN wrote: So to surmise. If your town and have not yet contacted me about your role. DO SO PLEASE, it would be invaluably helpful. On August 11 2010 04:03 XeliN wrote: And lastly, If you are town and have not yet claimed to me DO SO Bill Murray's got competition... | ||
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youngminii: activity is vastly different from when he's been town aligned the past two games. Slipped up when accused. infundibulum: Passive play compared to his norm. Also seems to show up at very convenient times, and defended himself from my post even though there was no pressure on him (and thus he could've just ignored me and moved on). Wishywashy in attitude. Maybe mafia: bumatlarge: Really bad posts. Has connection to pyrry which is strange. Artanis[XP]: Typical inactive mafia. Hesmyrr: bad posts and very wishywashy. Weird impression overall. People to look out for in the future: Chezinu: I know he claimed tracker but so have 3 other players. And he fits in with youngminii. Still hard to say though. Pyrry: Nobody cold be this bad as town. | ||
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Outside the original arguments of his differing attitude from his previous town-aligned games, new developments have surfaced. On August 11 2010 09:06 youngminii wrote: .........................sigh Remind me not to sign up for these games unless I have 24/7 access and time because apparently my previous style of posting dictates that I must always be spamming the thread. Maybe I should just fall into a semi-inactive style like half the town so that I won't be lynched based on these things. I wouldn't expect normal egotistical youngminii to respond with something like this. Where's the hate? Where's the attacks on my intelligence? On August 11 2010 09:30 youngminii wrote: What the fuck Pandain, are you kidding me? Why don't YOU go back and read my counter arguments? All foolishness did was ignore them while saying "I didn't contribute anything" along with Divinek. Why do you think I'm voting for foolishness? Yeah I tried to give an argument and no one listens, then I go afk for about half a day and suddenly people like you are saying I haven't done anything nor responded. Okay now we got the expected response out of him. Except it's against Pandain and not me. Remember when I first accused him he went ballistic on me for quite some time, post after post about how I'm the GF and I need to be lynch even though he "doesn't get red vibes from me". youngminii returns to the thread but ignores all my accusations against him, without properly defending himself (without defending himself at all really). The sole base for his defense is that he's busy in real life and afk a lot. While it may be true, he's still clearly around a lot since he has time to switch votes, and post stuff like: On August 11 2010 10:22 youngminii wrote: Happy Birthday Divinek! Not to mention even though he's posting a lot less, the content is much further reduced compared to his normal games. I'd expect some posts with good content or analysis (which we know he's very capable of doing) but he hasn't provided any. | ||
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On August 10 2010 01:20 tree.hugger wrote: Whew. That was a workout. People have a habit of reading a ton of pages and criticizing everyone below them for spam, but actually there's some interesting stuff. There's this YM, Foolishness debate going on, and meanwhile we have votes sitting on Bill Murray? A ton of people have listed Foolishness as one of their most suspicious players, so why not vote for him? That's strange. About YM. I'm convinced on Foolishness, and for the most part, I buy his argument on youngminii. He played the first day really oddly, and I can see IRL issues, but then the second day he's played it differently as well. I dunno, more angry. Remember what I told you last game? Cool your jets. Going to hold off on a vote for him at the moment, just on principle, really, but I think he's far and away our best candidate. Although we keep allowing Artanis[xp] to get away with posting nothing. Thankfully there's no suicide bomber this game, so it shouldn't hurt us too much to leave him alone... for the moment. Might be a ninja? So much for candidates at the moment. There was a thing I wanted to address... I think we're forgetting about this. Someone took a hit last night, AND someone was roleblocked. And we have no competing claims on either. Now, is it *possible* that the mafia would stack kills on chaoser or LSB to "confirm" Foolishness? I guess, but it's pretty silly, knowing that the medics were not supposed to protect any of them, and why would they protect either of those players anyway? But the mafia not roleblocking to confirm someone? The mafia not roleblocking on Day 1 with a devastating town plan in action? That seems really unlikely. I think we should try to confirm BrownBear and Foolishness tonight. If we can do that, then it doesn't matter how LSB's plan didn't work out, because we've got confirmed townies. We had this situation last game, and we didn't do anything with it. Let's not make this mistake again, yes? I'd like to mention in PM convo I had with tree hugger he was very willing to lynch youngminii. Which is saying something since hardly anyone believes me so far. | ||
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On August 12 2010 11:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not going to quote all tree.hugger's posts, but he seemed to be heavily pushing the youngminii wagon and pushing against the BM wagon. This leads me to believe youngminii is most likely innocent since there was a very big chance of said person getting lynched. Also, this puts BM in a bad spotlight. You got it backwards, he wasn't pushing the youngminii lynch very hard, he was just going along with it. There's a big difference. | ||
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I took a hit night 1, we've been over this quite a few times... | ||
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Pika Chu Pika Chu Pika Chu | ||
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On August 13 2010 11:55 youngminii wrote: So uhh.. Is this game slowly dying or is everything happening in PM land? I have a small fos on foolishness but that's about it, and since no one's listening to either one of us it won't really help. Perhaps we can agree to disagree about each other for now and focus our attention elsewhere? It seems to be apparent that nobody cares about us anymore. | ||
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I'm not changing my vote or anything yet, just want to know your thoughts about this. I'm not sure what I think about killing a possible blue. | ||
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On August 14 2010 11:53 Ace wrote: Um I just replaced into the game. I'm just asking questions to see how the game arrived to it's current state. I'm asking how you became confirmed since I really have no idea how it happened. How is this trickery? He's never given actual proof other than "night actions can confirm me". He was inspected night 1 and got mafia, but he was probably framed since he was the one involved in the town plan. | ||
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On August 14 2010 12:01 Ace wrote: Ok. So if he was inspected Night 1 and flipped scum - now that the framer is dead was he inspected again? Well the framer died last night, so even if he was inspected again tree.hugger still could have framed him again right? | ||
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On August 15 2010 18:09 Bill Murray wrote: why should we vote someone when i know for a fact foolishness is red Considering I'm a veteran and I took a hit last night, which hasn't been disputed by anyone, I beg to differ. | ||
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On August 16 2010 06:32 Bill Murray wrote: So, by that logic, Foolishness is the You have yet to provide any evidence on why I'm mafia other than this ploy about faking a hit. Furthermore, any evidence you use against me is on the basis that I'm already mafia and you use that as a justification for your evidence. I'm spending my entire time finding mafia by comparing their behavior to past games, and by constantly PMing suspects to get them to slip up, and by calling them out in the thread to see how they respond. Rastaban has provided clean evidence on why Infundibulum should be lynched. I spent a lot of time refuting the claims that I was mafia by showing how Pyrry's arguments were all fallacious and based upon a bad assumption (my connection to you). I proved to him that my behavior was consistent when games when I was town and inconsistent when I'm mafia. And his response basically boiled down to "well....you're still mafia!" Now if you and/or Pyrry want to come out with evidence on why my behavior is mafia other than "you're mafia you faked a hit lol lick my balls" I'll be happy to respond to it and show you why I'm town. I've spent a good deal of time trying to explain to you and Pyrry why I'm innocent, and tell you exactly everything I've done, who I'm working with, and even giving away information about blue roles I know (which apparently you already knew but whatever). I'm going to continue to do so because I don't believe in letting you or Pyrry derail this town, of which the two of you have almost succeeded in. Rastaban has provided a nice little summary of why Infundibulum should be lynched today, and until he responds there's no reason not to vote for him as he's definitely fishy. You can keep spamming away all his good arguments if you want if you're so convinced that I'm mafia. But by doing so you're only going to get yourself lynched if you don't provide any real evidence on why I'm mafia. And when the town starts to lynch you, Pyrry, and myself, then the town is going to legitimately lose when no mafia get lynched (unless one of you two is the GF, which I highly doubt). I've spent this game collecting information on why YM, Bumatlarge, Infundi, Misder, and Hesmyrr are all mafia. So far I've nabbed two mafia, unless something went wrong with Rastaban's track. You and Pyrry have spent your time spamming the thread with bad arguments on why I'm mafia which ultimately amount to nothing. It's entirely factual when I say that my mafia picks aren't as good as they could be because I've had to spend so much time dealing with you and Pyrry purposely trying to lose the game for the town. If not for Divinek, Rastaban, and BrownBear, this game would have been lost for the town long ago, especially since the other blue circle hasn't done anything useful except tree hugger, which they were only killing because tree hugger supported me. Divinek, Rastaban, and Brownbear have all proved that they are good players this game, by realizing the truth and by helping me find mafia while I have to sit here and deal with you. You and Pyrry have proved that you both can spam the thread. It's pretty clear who the better players are at this game after 3 days. Do you even have any plan on what to do when I flip town after you lynch me? Probably not because your response to this question is "I don't need a plan because I know you're mafia". That's not beneficial to the town at all. I got suspects lined up for tomorrow's lynch as well as today's starting with Infundibulum. I'm looking at who's probably innocent/guilty based on what color Infundibulum hits. I got plans and leads on who's possibly mafia. You've spent all your time focusing on me you've hardly made comment on anyone else being mafia. Give me some real evidence on why I'm mafia and I'll respond. Otherwise you (and the rest of the town) should not expect me to post in the thread at all. If any of you really care to talk to me, you can send me a PM, but consider me afk for the rest of the game, because I have no will to post in this thread any more. | ||
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Ahhh thanks, that helps a lot actually. Narrows down possible suspect list to 6 people. | ||
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On August 16 2010 09:30 Amber[LighT] wrote: lol thanks BM... and I was so nice to you defending you all game long and you go and do shit like this. He gave away BrownBear in the thread, this isn't much of a surprise =/ | ||
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On August 17 2010 01:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Sorry, didn't see this. BC had me look at bumatlarge, southrawrea, and infundibulum. Bumatlarge looked scummiest and did a lot of cooperation with tree.hugger so we voted for him. SouthRawrea also looked suspicious, but also seemed to be acting a bit independently/contrary of the known mafias. Misder looked more suspicious. Infundibulum couldn't be distinguished from a bored/distracted townie in my eyes. The attempts by Tree.Hugger and Bumatlarge to vouch for the innocence of brownbear and foolishness make me suspect at least one of them must be mafia. Veteran seems easier to fake so my vote is on Foolishness. So let me get this straight...Misder was tracked by a confirm tracker (who we know is confirmed because he took a hit last night and was saved by a medic) and the tracker saw that Misder visited Ace, who's now dead. Furthermore, Misder was inspected by a ninja (who's pretty much confirmed based on his night hit) and the ninja got the response back of Mafia. Yet you still vote for me? | ||
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...Well you probably already know so that's not really fair... | ||
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How does that make sense? | ||
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On August 17 2010 07:19 DarthThienAn wrote: lol. I meant that casinos are rigged, so why can't my betting be rigged. Yeah, really poor wording on my part. Gonna stop now since I'm dead and don't want to anger flamey. Casino's aren't rigged, there's no incomplete information. People being stupid enough to play odds which are not in their favor doesn't make it rigged. Especially since there are games where your odds of winning are better than the house, if you're smart enough. | ||
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I don't see any reason why we should believe BM on his inspection. He's not town aligned and since we didn't agree to his plan he has no reason to give us the actual result of his check. He knows he's going to die tonight does it really matter to him if we know the result of his check? No it doesn't, especially since we're not killing BC for obvious reasons. Most importantly, we can see a vast difference in SouthRawrea's attitude/posting from the previous game when he was mafia. The thing that sticks out most is that he's actually made good posts this game. That one post he made in the voting thread about Misder stands out because that post came before anyone had made any hardcore case against him. Sure, we all had our suspicions but this was the first long post about him. Furthermore, it doesn't seem right that SouthRawrea would post this stuff about Misder if they are mafia buddies. No need for them to put the heat on each other in the current situation. The fact that SouthRawrea has actually tried to do analysis on another player is something that is absent from his previous game when he was mafia. As mafia in the last game, he sat around as an inactive until the crisis with BC happened. That was further followed by his slip up. This game he's been around the entire time, and has been posting aggressively (against me of course -_-). Yes I know we all learn from our past mafia games, but I don't find it likely this guy went from being a stereotypical inactive mafia to being an aggressive town-YM in one game. Him aggressively calling people out in the thread (me early game for example) is not consistent with typical mafia behavior. Nothing about SouthRawrea being mafia is consistent with the rest of the game or his attitude in past games. That's why I changed my vote and I'm going to leave it on Infundibulum, for previous reasons given in the thread. Infundibulum is likely to be mafia based on his passive behavior and suspicious voting habits. We shouldn't vote for SouthRawrea just because BM says so. Remember this is the same BM that is angry at BC and angry at the town. The same BM that gave out two blues in the thread publicly. The same BM who isn't voting for Misder even though we have all this evidence against him. | ||
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On August 17 2010 08:32 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Uh I'm voting for you and Misder as far as I know. doh! totally misread your vote post my bad | ||
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On August 17 2010 09:20 Bill Murray wrote: BC is the godfather acting like a ninja I'll tell you who the real other ninja is if you tell me who you checked last night. | ||
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On August 17 2010 09:22 Bill Murray wrote: i wont die if BC is the godfather i bet i dont die how much do you have on paypal foolishness? Don't see how that's relevant. I'm merely offering a trade of information. | ||
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On August 17 2010 11:56 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think next we should go for infundibulum and kf91. Now there just has to be a typo in there because I don't see my name anywhere! | ||
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On August 19 2010 12:40 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: how do I get better at town? We need Ver's town guide.I don't suppose you'd want me to comment on that eh? =/ | ||
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