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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'd like to point out these posts from a previous game I played in. This game is turning out very similar to the one these posts come from. Pyrry and BC spent all game fighting in the thread while I tried to find the hidden mafia among the inactives. This is consistent with my posting this game and what I've been trying to do so far.
In the game these posts are from, I was able to get 2 mafia killed, ecomania and motbob, before the mafia killed me. At my time of death I had another 3 figured out, but it was too late for the town. Pyrry was spamming away the thread in this game and managed to get BC killed, in a similar fashion to what's happening this game. In that game I couldn't save BC and the town lost as a result of it.
Don't let Pyrry do the same thing again, whether he's town or mafia is irrelevant. youngminii is mafia, and it took Pyrry a long time to defend him, and his defense of youngminii boiled down to "he's probably busy". Aren't all mafia lurkers "probably busy"?
Think about who's doing more to find mafia. Pyrry has been banking on BM being mafia all game, and me being directly related to that. I've been actively PMing people to weed the mafia out of the inactives. This game is about killing mafia, not about confirming innocents or whose lynch will give us the most information.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 10 2009 08:00 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2009 07:32 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
FYI Foolishness has been trying to get me to back off of BC. This leads me to believe either BC and Foolishness are both Mafia, neither are mafia, or BC alone is mafia. I can't see why Foolishness would try to break up a fight between BC and I if he was mafia and BC wasn't. I do think I remember L being suspicious of Foolishness at one point. That's a really good clue that BC has bolded but I continue to be suspicious of some of his actions this game, and I don't think BC can be an innocent while Foolishness is guilty. Saccing to re-establish cred? I dunno, I'm somewhat baffled this game to be honest. I think I have redtooth caught and a bunch of shit happens and I lose focus and that seems to be happening to everyone. Alright I'm going to spell this out for you slowly. I hope you'll understand. Both Pyrry and BC have claimed I have sent them messages telling them to stop accusing the other person. This is very true. Let's try to outline the cases: 1) I am mafia, and one of BC/Pyrry is mafia. This doesn't make much sense, as I'd only send the message to one of them and not both. I would be trying to help get the other person lynched. 2) I am mafia, none of BC/Pyrry are mafia. This makes no sense as I would enjoy laughing on the sidelines watching two innocents kill each other. 3) I am innocent and both BC/Pyrry are innocent. AHA! NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE! If I am innocent, and I think both BC and Pyrry are innocent then it's obvious that there is nothing to be gained from BC and Pyrry trying to kill each other. It makes sense that I would try to break it up (and then work with them) in order to try to kill potential mafia. The way I see it, two innocents are trying to get each other killed, this is obviously bad. I have left out a few cases but those are trivial (at least I hope they are). Let's examine what the mafia is doing. I looked up at the town list just recently, and counted the number of people that had not posted at all or had made a small amount of posts. I counted eleven people (obviously, this number is somewhat subjective). Where do you think the mafia are people? Do you think they are in the group of me, redtooth, Lucas, BC, Pyrry, arguing incessently among themselves? Or, are they sitting back in the group of eleven people doing nothing and watching things happen? Should be an obvious answer. THE MAFIA ARE SITTING BACK DOING NOTHING. It's pretty clear that probably none of the mafia members have posted recently. What need is there to post when five of the townspeople are trying to kill each other? This is why I tried to break up the BC/Pyrry fight. It's in no way helping the town. In fact, it's helping the mafia. At this point, let me say something about ecomania. I believe that ecomania is a mafia, as well as a safe lynch today. (Yes I know we got two lynches to work with). As I stated in my previous post, which I'm sure none of you read, ecomania is a contributer to the mass ydg voting that almost got ydg killed over TruthBringer. This was an obvious attempt by the mafia to save TruthBringer, as they were able to tie the vote at one point, and almost succeed in killing ydg. Show nested quote +On July 08 2009 00:38 ecomania wrote:
I don't get it why there are 3 guys randomly voting to lynch me.
Both L's and BC's analysis seemed pretty solid to me, so I chose to abstain first.
But now that ydg is voting for me I'm just going with him ;P
Or was time for voting already up? I'm getting confused with the time zones... This was an obvious cover up. He didn't want to just change votes without saying anything as that would make him look more suspicious. ecomania has also done a marvelous job of contributing without posting anything useful or helpful to the town. Consider: Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 23:08 ecomania wrote:
A clue about the priest will be revealed on the first night tho.
So if the mafia find out who the priest is, they can pick him off before he has
finished reviving MBH and MBH will be silenced even longer.
I guess one of the angels should protect the priest, so the revival process won't fail.
Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 21:57 ecomania wrote:I'm sorry, that I seem so inactive to you, BC. In fact, I tried to contribute something to the thread, but I failed to find any good clues in the day post, nor have I found any leads while googling for the players names/phrases from the day post. I thought it would be kind of unnecessary to just post stuff like "Ye, fog seems pretty good, reduce KP and find out how many pledges there are n stuff". So I just kept reading the thread and submitted my weather/emperor votes. As for why I voted L for emperor, I'm being honest with you that I don't know your playing styles from previous games, but you guys seemed both equally competent. It was actually nothing but this phrase of yours "I am already seeing idiocy of players that has led to many vets getting insanely discouraged with playing these games." that sounded pretty arrogant to me and made me vote for L. I guess I should've just abstained from voting and let people with more experience do the voting. Well, from now on I'll try harder to participate in the clue analysis and bring forth our hunt on the mafia.  The second of these came after BC put ecomania on his suspicious list. As we can see, ecomania is clearly dodging everything that's said. His first post merely restates what had already been said numerous times. His second post is his defense on lack of contributing. He finds contributing "unnecessary" so he just "[reads] the thread and submitted [his] weather/emperor votes". He also states he will try to participate and help with clue analysis. You shouldn't need me to tell you that none of that has happened. DONT BE FOOLED BY THE BC AND PYRRY FIGHT. Both of these people are clearly innocent and fighting over nothing. It's obvious that ecomania should be lynched. At the very least, it's much safer to kill ecomania than to try to kill BC or Pyrry. BC and Pyrry are both active contributors (although both are stupid), and we can be nearly certain mafia are sitting back hiding among the inactives. On July 12 2009 12:22 Foolishness wrote:Alright since I have a high chance of dying tonight I'm going to help you all on tomorrow's lynch. motbob is the godfatherLet me detail why he is at the very least mafia, and then the reasoning behind my suspicion of him being the GF. motbob must be mafia because of the voting pattern. Consider his posts just yesterday about BC. Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 14:09 motbob wrote:
fuck, I don't know whether to vote BC or not. I mean the thing that's really tempting me to do it is the fact that mafia COULD be voting for him, but they're clearly not (because of the Truthbringer - BC vote correlation.) If you were mafia, would you pass up the chance to lynch the mayor?
I mean hell, even ecomania isn't voting for BC.
But I really want those double lynches... whatever... I'll decide after eSTRO vs stars. The fact of the matter is, motbob voted at a very crucial point in the votes. At the time BC was down by two votes to ecomania (Kuja far ahead in the lead). motbob made wishy washy posts as above, then tossing his two votes on BC. This was easily the changing point in the vote because it allowed for potential mafia to put BC over the line. However Pyrry's votes made this unnecessary (unless Pyrry is mafia as well). As I stated, motbob was wishy washy about the vote, as in this next quote from earlier, he's actually against BC getting lynched because he wants the double lynches. Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 02:02 motbob wrote:
but you know what? You're right. It's stupid to vote for him this early. I'll vote for him the day he doesn't use double lynch. Show nested quote +On July 11 2009 13:37 motbob wrote:
I want to make a note here. Everybody who is currently voting for BC voted for Truthbringer.
That alone convinces me that he's mafia. Unfortunately... it would be stupid, again, to vote for him tonight. Bockit... you're not convincing me that getting rid of double lynches is worth getting rid of BC tonight. Can't we just tune him out and lynch him the first day he doesn't use double lynch? As a side note, his argument that everyone who voted for BC also voted for TruthBringer (which was true at the time of his post) does not mean anything. We know mafia need to spread out their votes, especially considering list checks are available now. It's just as likely that the mafia who were on TruthBringer's list (as there had to be a few) also voted for BC. motbob would make this post, as well as putting it in bold, because those people voting for BC are probably mafia as well. He makes this statement to divert attention off his fellow mafia members. Another big point to make is that motbob is the first person to point out that there was a save during the night. Nobody else had noticed this fact, it's obvious he'd be the first to point it out, at a very late time might I add, because he was mafia and his hits did not go through. Back to the voting argument, motbob was also part of the reason TruthBringer almost did not get lynched the night before. I have stated in a previous post, and I will say again, that TruthBringer was ahead by a score of 9 to 4, which is a pretty decent lead, until a bunch of votes piled on in a very short timeframe. One of these came from motbob. Another one came from econmania, who I still suspect of being mafia, especially since the mafia had control over the votes the past night, they were able to save ecomania from getting lynched. motbob is the GFIf you look through the thread, motbob has made quite a decent amount of posts, considering the number of inactives this game. However none of these have ever been more than a few sentences as he has yet to really "contribute" to the town. Considering the number of posts he's made, there has been very little discussion about him. Anyone who posts as much as him is bound to get attention, except his lack of useful posting prevents this. He restates what's already been said, gives short posts about his opinions, making it appear that he's an active townsperson. The only problem is is that he's not contributing at all. As I stated before, Mafia is easily hiding among the inactives. It's a shame Kuja900 was innocent, but that narrows down the list even more. Why is motbob posting a lot? Because he's not afraid, which is clearly a GF attitude. As we have seen in past mafia games, mafia do not post a lot because they are afraid of drawing attention to themselves. The only exception is with the GF as he has no fear of being rolechecked. And even if he is suspicious, he can merit being on a DT check list. motbob is playing the game like an unafraid mafia member, which is clearly a GF behavior more than a normal mafia member behavior. This is why I suspect motbob of being the GF. TOWN LYNCH TOMORROW NEEDS TO BE MOTBOB This will reduce mafia killpower by one. If everybody votes Sunny as well assassins (assuming they survive the night) have good targets as well.
This was my first game of mafia, I was detective and a similar situation happened. I had to claim DT last minute to try to save the town from continually lynching townies. The town lost but I was correct on the majority of my mafia picks. My style is the same as this game, I tried to pick out the mafia from the inactives while the town fought amongst themselves. Both these games show that I'm very capable at finding mafia amongst the inactives. And youngminii is not a different case at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2009 15:04 Foolishness wrote:Okay this should not be happening, but it's going to. I am the detective. I have orchestrated events in the past 24 hours in order to try to lure out mafia (such as the accusement of motbob). Due to the recent inactivity, it is necessary for me to come out. It is important you listen to me because I AM YOUR ONE CHANCE FOR TOWN TO WIN. Nobody else believes it is possible, but I can make it possible. From all the intel I have gathered, mostly working with teks here, it is reasonable to assume that these 5 people are mafia: ydg, wurm, pawsom, l10f, phelix. I know all of the blue roles, the only way this list is wrong is if these guys are townspeople. I am the detective that inspected l10f and got a thumbs up. Because his behavior is very suspicious I have sure he is actually mafia and not a miller. The reason there is not a heavy movement against him is because most of the other blue roles think he is mafia. I will outline my arguments against him later. The important thing that we learn is that Ra.Xor.2 IS NOT MAFIA!. This is evident due to his inactivity. The past 3 days, all the mafia has done is sit around and watch the townspeople kill themselves. In all three town decisions, somebody was lynched due to "suspicious inactivity". The case is exactly the same with Ra.Xor.2. Jayme even admitted it that he felt there was no point in defending himself so he didn't. I am sure Ra.Xor.2 feels the same way. I know lots of you believe that "clues point to Ra.Xor.2". I think we can all agree that behavior and voting analysis says a lot more than relying on ambiguous clues of which we know absolutely nothing about (especially because this is Pyrry's first game). Thus it is important we do not take this stuff for granted (as we have in the past). If we keep sitting around like we have been this entire day mafia are going to win!. I am the only chance we have left to win. As l10f has convieniently laid out for us we need to lynch two mafia otherwise it's gg. Lynching Ra.Xor.2 is just fitting into the mafia plan. Even if Pawsom is mafia they can afford to sacrifice one person. Although most of the evidence against Pawsom is based on clues, I have found some interesting posts about him: Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 18:02 Pawsom wrote:
I don't know dude. Seems like a waste to me. If we double lynch on day 2, we still might not be sure, or close enough to sure about certain players. Also, how does that give us a higher chance of hitting red? We'll have a higher chance once there are less players, and once we have more clues. obviously double lynches help the townspeople, as it gives more chances to kill a mafia. Lack of wanting to kill mafia is .... Most of Pawsom's posts after the first day consist of him trying to pinpoint clues to people. However notice how he usually states things that have already been noticed by other players. Although it may seem like he is contributing, he is not; he's just restating things to appear like he's a helpful townsperson. I would like to point attention now to ydg. His recent posting is up for suspicion. Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 07:48 ydg wrote:
Okay I finally caught up, wow so much has happened, good thing I wasn't killed.
My first impressions: wow at the mafia hitting. Mafia is basically shooting itself by killing mostly greens and hitting protected peoples, even though we lynched a medic.
Do you really think mafia is shooting itself? By hitting unsuspected people, the mafia have avoided medic saves (except last night) and now we are in quite a rut. The mafia is so close to winning right now. In addition, ydg also took a long time to roleclaim to teks. His recent posts about the clues is useless to the town, same with Pawsom's attempt to analyze past days' posts. l10f is also guilty of mafia behavior. As I said he for sure came up mafia in the role check. teks is convinced he's a miller based on a list l10f sent him. It looks like this: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is in order of whom I think is most likely to be mafia to the least 1. Chaoser <- I think his is definite 2. Ra.Xor.2 <- If he roleclaimed townie, I'm pretty sure 3. wurm <- Clues pointing to him a lot 4. epicdoom <- see my past post on him 5. clazziquai 6. phelix the bottom two I'm not too sure of. Good luck. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can tell you for sure, based on the numbers, at least 3 people on the list have to be mafia. What's the point in sending this list to teks? teks already knows nearly everybody's roles. Not to mention teks is not going to do anything about this. If he had posted it in thread with actual evidence, it would be a different story. Not to mention his opinions on each person are rather simple. "I think his is definite", "clues pointing to him a lot" hold absolute no meaning. Why he send a list to teks then? He wants to appear that he is indeed trying to help the town by thinking of a list of suspicions. He knows teks knows nearly everything, and put his own comrades on it to not look suspicious. Had he sent a list with just three people on it, it'd probably be safe to assume those three people are not mafia. Instead he tried to hide. Furthermore look at this post Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 14:36 l10f wrote:
If we can't lynch two mafias today.. It'll really take a miracle.
11 7
10 6
7 6
7 5
5 5
5 4
3 4
This is so difficult, especially with both millers living.
The town has a good chance of winning if Shikyo is not Mafia and we get two mafia kills today.
My shot's on chaoser and Ra.Xor.2, but willing to wait for other people's opinions. Some of you think I'm mafia, and I don't have much defence except that the clues that people pointed at me are very loose and weak.
We can do it! We just have to get two mafias, and hope that Shikyo isn't one. If he is one, I believe it's too late anyway to change anything. Your call. The only useful thing is the countdown, which I might add we have already figured out multiple times. See a pattern? Notice how he keeps repeating things already said "millers living...need two mafia kills today". He refuses to defend himself, saying all the clues are "weak". At the end, he posts a "We can do it!", almost sarcastic. His talks about Shikyo mean nothing. Overall he is not contributing at all to the town. Most of his other posts are lacking in anything useful, most of the time merely restating something already been said. In one post he even says Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 10:59 l10f wrote:
I have been completely useless to this game, mostly because I'm afraid to speak out with my ideas, and all the good ones are given by the experienced player, so I just agree with them, or state my simple, humble opinion.
From tomorrow I'll try to take time to make some analysis as well and contribute to the town.
I think this screams mafia more than anything. He doesn't want to say anything at all, and this coincides with the mafia strategy: sit back and watch the town kill themselves. He says he'd try to contribute to the town, we know that didn't happen. The recent accusation against motbob was to try to see if any other mafia would take the bait. So far, wurm is the only one who did. I am suspicious of him as well. Summary: We cannot lynch Ra.Xor.2. So far we have only lynched townspeople, and they all have the same "there's nothing I can do" attitude. This time we can learn from our mistakes. l10f, ydg, Pawsom are for sure mafia. Wurm is suspicious as well. It's important we vote two mafia tonight. By listening to me, the town can win.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 14:06 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 13:56 Foolishness wrote:
Oh and where's that post about BM's plan from the other game? Here is Bill Murray as Godfather asking for blues to role claim publically-This plan was presented Day 1. -Basically, his plan was to group people in twos. If a group of two did not contain an assassin (called ninja's in this game) they were supposed to claim publically. Think about how high the odds are there. In this game, there are 2-4 ninjas. So if we did this plan here, it is basically presenting a Day 1 plan asking 22-28 of the 30 town's people to publically claim their role. Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:33 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. Big FoS on Zona/BC for completely ignoring my valid strategy of making people pitted against each other. If we have player A vs player B we will be able to learn who the assassins are through having them strategically fight each other. If neither one is an assassin, we can have them roleclaim. I know that a lot of people on TL are against roleclaiming like this, but it is very beneficial to the town.
Good points from this:
1) we learn who the assassins are
2) assassins have an equal chance of killing other assassins
3) we will be able to see people who are unable to kill each other
This is the same approach that was attempted to be taken in Caller's last Mafiya. It was a very good strategy, and should have been followed. I feel that BC is probably town, but I'm getting serious scummy vibes from Zona. He's trying to derail the town, and is more than likely scum.
That's a very different plan from what BM suggested this game. I don't even think you and I should be debating this, let's let BM decide what's what on this one.
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Foolishness is so certain that this game is shaping up like a previous game. I am too. Read this post of Zona trying to deal with Bill Murray's Godfather plan. He is like my fricking clone or something.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 05:42 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:33 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. Big FoS on Zona/BC for completely ignoring my valid strategy of making people pitted against each other. If we have player A vs player B we will be able to learn who the assassins are through having them strategically fight each other. If neither one is an assassin, we can have them roleclaim. I know that a lot of people on TL are against roleclaiming like this, but it is very beneficial to the town.
Good points from this:
1) we learn who the assassins are
2) assassins have an equal chance of killing other assassins
3) we will be able to see people who are unable to kill each other
This is the same approach that was attempted to be taken in Caller's last Mafiya. It was a very good strategy, and should have been followed. I feel that BC is probably town, but I'm getting serious scummy vibes from Zona. He's trying to derail the town, and is more than likely scum. Wait...you were serious about your "everyone is an assassin" post? And you want everyone to roleclaim so early? First of all, if someone is an assassin, they aren't going to claim assassin. That's just setting a big target on their backs so that the other assassins can kill them. And if we mass roleclaim we just allow the mafia to choose the most valuable power roles to kill at night. Also - how am I derailing the town? I'm pointing out the fishy parts of BC's posts and posting my own proposed plan with reasoning to back it up. Here's Bill Murray's plan in spoilers for those that want to reference it. It was so silly I thought it was a joke. + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2010 05:13 Bill Murray wrote:
everyone is an assassin
here's what we're going to do:
The first half of the list is required to assassinate the 2nd half of the list. The list will be inverted the next day so everyone will get their turn to kill someone if they are an assassin. They won't want to be using their kills up every single night anyways, as they can use a Detective Check on the alternate night. I will be cutting the game list into a 1/2 order. 1s are killers, 2s are killees. It will switch the next night. If you are a killer or a killee, don't complain. In all likelihood you won't have to kill or be killed, as we are not sure how many assassins there are. If the mafia kill a killee in the night, we skip a lynch to balance it (hypothetically), but if they kill a killer then we will lynch the killee of the person that they killed the killer of. I hope this is making sense to you. If anyone has any questions about the Bill Murray plan of town success let me know. This plan will help the town as it will be putting mafia players in vulnerable "killee" positions in which they would potentially lynch the "killer". We use the assassins to win as a town. They COUNT as town people, so assassins will want the town to win. It will also be giving them chances to win the game for theirselves through killing other assassins and finding assassins that they can kill at any time during the night that we aren't asking them to kill for us. If they find an assassin, they can breadcrumb a message to us previously or something to let us know BEFORE they do the action that they will be killing an alternate person (this will guarantee that they stay town as we let them go towards their goal while we go towards our goal together). I don't want assassins to claim at first, but it will become obvious after the first 2 cycles on who they are anyways, so we can be a lot more organized after the first couple day/night cycles.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 14:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Foolishness is so certain that this game is shaping up like a previous game. I am too. Read this post of Zona trying to deal with Bill Murray's Godfather plan. He is like my fricking clone or something. + Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 05:42 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:33 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. Big FoS on Zona/BC for completely ignoring my valid strategy of making people pitted against each other. If we have player A vs player B we will be able to learn who the assassins are through having them strategically fight each other. If neither one is an assassin, we can have them roleclaim. I know that a lot of people on TL are against roleclaiming like this, but it is very beneficial to the town.
Good points from this:
1) we learn who the assassins are
2) assassins have an equal chance of killing other assassins
3) we will be able to see people who are unable to kill each other
This is the same approach that was attempted to be taken in Caller's last Mafiya. It was a very good strategy, and should have been followed. I feel that BC is probably town, but I'm getting serious scummy vibes from Zona. He's trying to derail the town, and is more than likely scum. Wait...you were serious about your "everyone is an assassin" post? And you want everyone to roleclaim so early? First of all, if someone is an assassin, they aren't going to claim assassin. That's just setting a big target on their backs so that the other assassins can kill them. And if we mass roleclaim we just allow the mafia to choose the most valuable power roles to kill at night. Also - how am I derailing the town? I'm pointing out the fishy parts of BC's posts and posting my own proposed plan with reasoning to back it up. Here's Bill Murray's plan in spoilers for those that want to reference it. It was so silly I thought it was a joke. + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2010 05:13 Bill Murray wrote:
everyone is an assassin
here's what we're going to do:
The first half of the list is required to assassinate the 2nd half of the list. The list will be inverted the next day so everyone will get their turn to kill someone if they are an assassin. They won't want to be using their kills up every single night anyways, as they can use a Detective Check on the alternate night. I will be cutting the game list into a 1/2 order. 1s are killers, 2s are killees. It will switch the next night. If you are a killer or a killee, don't complain. In all likelihood you won't have to kill or be killed, as we are not sure how many assassins there are. If the mafia kill a killee in the night, we skip a lynch to balance it (hypothetically), but if they kill a killer then we will lynch the killee of the person that they killed the killer of. I hope this is making sense to you. If anyone has any questions about the Bill Murray plan of town success let me know. This plan will help the town as it will be putting mafia players in vulnerable "killee" positions in which they would potentially lynch the "killer". We use the assassins to win as a town. They COUNT as town people, so assassins will want the town to win. It will also be giving them chances to win the game for theirselves through killing other assassins and finding assassins that they can kill at any time during the night that we aren't asking them to kill for us. If they find an assassin, they can breadcrumb a message to us previously or something to let us know BEFORE they do the action that they will be killing an alternate person (this will guarantee that they stay town as we let them go towards their goal while we go towards our goal together). I don't want assassins to claim at first, but it will become obvious after the first 2 cycles on who they are anyways, so we can be a lot more organized after the first couple day/night cycles.
Except the previous game is where you ruined the town and got a bunch of townies lynch. Granted you were mafia, but still.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's mafia. Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's town.
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On August 10 2010 14:12 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 14:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Foolishness is so certain that this game is shaping up like a previous game. I am too. Read this post of Zona trying to deal with Bill Murray's Godfather plan. He is like my fricking clone or something. + Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 05:42 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 05:33 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. Big FoS on Zona/BC for completely ignoring my valid strategy of making people pitted against each other. If we have player A vs player B we will be able to learn who the assassins are through having them strategically fight each other. If neither one is an assassin, we can have them roleclaim. I know that a lot of people on TL are against roleclaiming like this, but it is very beneficial to the town.
Good points from this:
1) we learn who the assassins are
2) assassins have an equal chance of killing other assassins
3) we will be able to see people who are unable to kill each other
This is the same approach that was attempted to be taken in Caller's last Mafiya. It was a very good strategy, and should have been followed. I feel that BC is probably town, but I'm getting serious scummy vibes from Zona. He's trying to derail the town, and is more than likely scum. Wait...you were serious about your "everyone is an assassin" post? And you want everyone to roleclaim so early? First of all, if someone is an assassin, they aren't going to claim assassin. That's just setting a big target on their backs so that the other assassins can kill them. And if we mass roleclaim we just allow the mafia to choose the most valuable power roles to kill at night. Also - how am I derailing the town? I'm pointing out the fishy parts of BC's posts and posting my own proposed plan with reasoning to back it up. Here's Bill Murray's plan in spoilers for those that want to reference it. It was so silly I thought it was a joke. + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2010 05:13 Bill Murray wrote:
everyone is an assassin
here's what we're going to do:
The first half of the list is required to assassinate the 2nd half of the list. The list will be inverted the next day so everyone will get their turn to kill someone if they are an assassin. They won't want to be using their kills up every single night anyways, as they can use a Detective Check on the alternate night. I will be cutting the game list into a 1/2 order. 1s are killers, 2s are killees. It will switch the next night. If you are a killer or a killee, don't complain. In all likelihood you won't have to kill or be killed, as we are not sure how many assassins there are. If the mafia kill a killee in the night, we skip a lynch to balance it (hypothetically), but if they kill a killer then we will lynch the killee of the person that they killed the killer of. I hope this is making sense to you. If anyone has any questions about the Bill Murray plan of town success let me know. This plan will help the town as it will be putting mafia players in vulnerable "killee" positions in which they would potentially lynch the "killer". We use the assassins to win as a town. They COUNT as town people, so assassins will want the town to win. It will also be giving them chances to win the game for theirselves through killing other assassins and finding assassins that they can kill at any time during the night that we aren't asking them to kill for us. If they find an assassin, they can breadcrumb a message to us previously or something to let us know BEFORE they do the action that they will be killing an alternate person (this will guarantee that they stay town as we let them go towards their goal while we go towards our goal together). I don't want assassins to claim at first, but it will become obvious after the first 2 cycles on who they are anyways, so we can be a lot more organized after the first couple day/night cycles.
Except the previous game is where you ruined the town and got a bunch of townies lynch. Granted you were mafia, but still.
Exactly, I was mafia. So... kinda irrelevant.
I had good reasons to lynch BM yesterday - he's playing very similar to his last game as Godfather. Those didn't disappear overnight. I'm not going to shrink my attention span and lose sight of them. Youngminii has some strikes against him, but it seems very foolish to consider him worse than Bill Murray at this point. Especially now that Bill Murray has outed a potential blue. He has gotten more suspicious to me, not less. The link between you and him has gotten more pronounced, not less. There have been some challenges to that link, but it remains quite well defined, I think.
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On August 10 2010 14:13 Foolishness wrote:
Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's mafia. Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's town.
Got an example of him asking for mass role claim as non-mafia? I haven't looked through all of his games yes. But it surprises me how quick people are to assume that he is always crazy when he seemed quite normal in the one game I found of him as green.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 11:12 Foolishness wrote:
I have some things that need to get said:
First off, since people still seem to be confused about this I am a Veteran. Last night I took a hit and I did not have a medic on me. This does not confirm me 100% but I want to be clear about this because I have nothing to hide.
Pyrry claims in his recap that I was "furiously defending BM right at the start of the game". As some of you may know during the first day I pushed Pyrry to post his list of suspects (it was clear he wanted to kill BM, but he said he had a list going). It was at this post that he first accused me of being mafia with BM and that I chainsawed BM.
I would now like to refute all of these points.
I have never "furiously defended BM". Up until the point where Pyrry accused me of chainsaw, my posts mainly consisted of one liners about Chezinu and smurfs and killing youngminii. My other posts (that had content) consisted of a suspicion of Pandain:
On August 06 2010 13:07 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 12:53 Pandain wrote:On August 06 2010 12:25 Bill Murray wrote:
Pandain is #2 on my suspect list behind Divinek due to PM-land Says the guy trying to get me to reveal my role. I think we should seriously take a look at this brodooski...he's yet to make any real contribution, despite an overflowing of posts. He got pretty defensive when divinek voted for him, which isn't fool proof I know, but it's definitely something to take note of. Bill Murray, I may not have any idea how you're playing these days, but I'd totally support you against this brodooski.
And also includes me going AGAINST Bill Murray:
On August 06 2010 12:18 Foolishness wrote:
Bill Murray's attitude is awfully serious for his norm...
On August 06 2010 12:37 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 12:30 Bill Murray wrote:
I am actually fishing with the Divinek wagon.
Whoever the 3rd person to vote on it is is going to be lynched imo I once new a guy who swore by the fact that the third person to talk at the start of the first day was mafia. Yes...you just reminded me of him...did I mention he was never right about anything?
Before Pyrry accused me in the thread I had nothing supporting Bill Murray. In fact, I was suspicious of him for acting outside his norm! I hadn't played a game with him in a bit so apparently I was wrong about what his norm was, but up to this point I had not furiously defended BM.
After I had asked Pyrry to post his list he says: On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 09:22 Foolishness wrote:On August 07 2010 09:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 09:16 Foolishness wrote:
I for god hope Pyrry is going to post his "list" of the 6 mafia (or 4 or 5 or whatever number you're sure on).
And to let you know I have a bunch of posts from mafia of previous games (not necessarily you) who all say something like "I got this mafia list figured out" or "I think I know who's mafia but I'm not going to say unless I really have to". It's pretty common to see mafia members do this.
I look really forward to hearing your response when I post good information about how you're mafia. I also look forward to you getting people to spam away my good post when I do post it (assuming you don't post your list, which, let's face it, you know you won't).
If you're pro-town, you'll post your list and give your reasons. There's no reason to wait. The more information in the open the better we are. I'll post when BM flips. What if BM doesn't get lynched (for whatever reason)? Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you.
Let me clarify that a chainsaw defense is when a person defends another by accusing the attacker. If you look through my posts I have never accused Pyrry of being mafia, I simply asked him for his list because if he was pro-town, he would post it.
Let me also both out he says I chainsawed against Divinek. Divinek was voting for larjarse at the time, so that doesn't make any sense. I will also say that Divinek had only one vote at the time (from bumatlarge), and there was no longer much focus on Divinek compared to earlier in the day.
My response to his post was:
On August 07 2010 09:40 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 09:22 Foolishness wrote:On August 07 2010 09:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 07 2010 09:16 Foolishness wrote:
I for god hope Pyrry is going to post his "list" of the 6 mafia (or 4 or 5 or whatever number you're sure on).
And to let you know I have a bunch of posts from mafia of previous games (not necessarily you) who all say something like "I got this mafia list figured out" or "I think I know who's mafia but I'm not going to say unless I really have to". It's pretty common to see mafia members do this.
I look really forward to hearing your response when I post good information about how you're mafia. I also look forward to you getting people to spam away my good post when I do post it (assuming you don't post your list, which, let's face it, you know you won't).
If you're pro-town, you'll post your list and give your reasons. There's no reason to wait. The more information in the open the better we are. I'll post when BM flips. What if BM doesn't get lynched (for whatever reason)? Well you will probably kill me tonight, so I will post all my info anyway, mafia number 2. You are my favorite player in all of TL Mafia, at least when you are town-aligned, so I am disappointed to see your red play be so obvious. You've now chainsaw defended Bill Murray against both Divinek and myself. Now, if Bill Murray flips blue, I will certainly not run roughshod after you and the rest of his sketchy defenders and defendees. But if he flips red, which seems EXTREMELY likely to me at this point, your ass is grass and killing me won't save you. Awww I'm touched <3 I would think it's obvious to any town player that lynching a player who's actively participating and defending against arguments is foolish. How many times have you seen a mafia player that isn't Ace/L actively tell people they are wrong/stupid and defend their beliefs to the last moment they die? Hardly ever. Imma wait at least another 2 days before ever considering voting for any of you. Truth is, I barely give a care as to whether BM or you or DTA or divinek is mafia. Cause all you active people do is blame each other and find reasons why the other is mafia. If one of you is actually mafia, I'm sure one of the others will figure it out sooner or later. I got bigger fish to fry in figuring out who's mafia among the other 50% of the players who half lurk. Now wait a minute...you're supposedly a ninja and getting killed by other ninja's tonight. If I was mafia why would I bother hitting you? Haha, I actually kinda lol'd when I read your post, because it's insanely obvious you improvised the entire thing. I've seen better reasoning for suspicions out of totally new players. Have you even read my posts to consider if I'm actually mafia? I'm pretty sure you're too concerned with BM right now to even care who else is mafia. Which is fine by me, you do what you got to do and I'll do what I got to do. One person is not a list. You got any others you want to throw out there?
My intention with this post was to get him to clam down, because I was actively hunting mafia through the lurkers. I mention that I don't care whether him or BM or any other active is mafia, which was true. That would be my only defense of BM, which wasn't even a defense. I was not chainsawing here either, if that was true I would've accused Pyrry of being mafia, which I have yet to do all game long.
Pyrry says I buddied up with BM. It's clear that I was suspicious of him, not trying to buddy up.
Pyrry further said he didn't mean I chainsawed against Divinek, but against Pandain (he made a typo in his post). This further does not make sense since Pandain wasn't even against BM at the time (Pandain had voted for Chezinu).
In conclusion I did not chainsaw defend BM, all my relevant posts are here as proof. I never accused Pyrry, only asked him to post his list.
Pyrry in his analysis of me says I'm acting outside my normal behavior as town. I can easily refute this by showing my behavior from past games:
When I am town or town-aligned, I am very active in hunting down mafia, especially behind the scenes. In Plexa's Summer Session Mafia, I was active in PMing everyone, and before I died I had convinced the town to kill 2 mafia, and I had figured out a few others. Pyrry was in this game as mafia and he knows.
One of the things I do when I'm town in order to figure out who's mafia is pressuring people in the thread. I call them out in the thread to see how they respond and try to figure out alignment that way. This is apparent in every game I've been in from my first. In the first game I played in (hosted by Pyrry) I called out Shikyo in the thread and pushed him hard to prove himself. From this I was able to deduce he was innocent and we were able to form a town circle.
I consistently do this because I want to see how people react when I call them out. In fact I did it this game when I asked Pyrry to post his mafia list. In Incognito's mafia XXVII I pushed flamewheel hard. If the game hadn't ended he was my top suspect to lynch because of his reaction.
Compare this to my games when I'm mafia. While I try to be active, it's not uncommon for me to hide amongst the lurkers. Furthermore, I PM a lot less than normal. In Flamwheel's Mafia XX, where I was the GF, I believe the only person I talked to in PMs was Incognito (minus a short stint with L). In Incognito's double mafia family game, I barely posted as I sat back sniping blues/reds. I didn't post very much until the town was half dead and after Chezinu inspected me.
My behavior this games only shows that I'm innocent and not mafia. I think I have talked with more than 50% of this town in PMs, and I know more than enough of you can vouch that I'm very active talking to everyone. I would like to further emphasize my post on page 41 at the start of night 1. I told everyone exactly what I was doing, and I think people can vouch that I haven't swayed from what I said.
Summary: My posts clearly indicate I was never "furiously defending BM". There was never any chainsaw defense since I never accused Pyrry. I am acting in accordance with my normal town playstyle, definitely not my mafia play. The majority of my posts are quoted here as proof. This does not prove me 100% innocent, but shows that Pyrry's arguments against me are fallacious.
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sry sry. I am scumbuddy. I want to see more people bandwagon on BM.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 10 2010 11:12 Foolishness wrote:
youngminii
This is about why youngminii is mafia. I first suspected him early on day 1 when I posted:
On August 06 2010 13:25 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 13:21 Pandain wrote:On August 06 2010 13:17 youngminii wrote:On August 06 2010 13:16 Divinek wrote:On August 06 2010 13:14 youngminii wrote:On August 06 2010 13:07 Foolishness wrote:On August 06 2010 12:53 Pandain wrote:On August 06 2010 12:25 Bill Murray wrote:
Pandain is #2 on my suspect list behind Divinek due to PM-land Says the guy trying to get me to reveal my role. I think we should seriously take a look at this brodooski...he's yet to make any real contribution, despite an overflowing of posts. He got pretty defensive when divinek voted for him, which isn't fool proof I know, but it's definitely something to take note of. Bill Murray, I may not have any idea how you're playing these days, but I'd totally support you against this brodooski. Naw Pandain played like this last game. I thought it was scummy too and that evidence was supported by a freaking DT check but he ended up flipping miller. I mean I was so sure he was scum... but that makes you wonder what he'd give off if he was actually scum doesnt it I don't think he'd be too much of a threat if he was scum (no offense Pandain) and I dunno it would be his first time as scum wouldn't it? He'd drop scumtells all over the place imo. Its True  Note: Kill Youngmini Tonight. Why wait until tonight when we got a lynch today?
My reasoning for wanting to kill him was because he had yet to make a real contribution. He was posting frequently like we would all expect except he had yet to make a real contribution. Here are his posts longer than 2 lines:
On August 06 2010 13:12 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 12:26 tree.hugger wrote:On August 06 2010 11:56 LSB wrote:On August 06 2010 11:35 DarthThienAn wrote:On August 06 2010 11:20 Divinek wrote:
darth are you gonna play normal this game, or at least not like last game
pleeeeeeease I don't know what you're talking about. Just thinking about balance, I think it's likely that we have 1 of each blue role? And probably 3-4 ninjas in the game, I'd lean toward 3. Look here for a comparison. Ninjas = Assassins, essentially. With a roleblocker + framer, something like 7 to 9 blue roles sounds right. Framer essentially replaces millers from previous games, except gives a little more power to the mafia. Roleblocker is standard. What makes things interesting is the ninjas. Not sure how that messes up balance. Discussion, go! And for the record: I am always for lynching inactives. Here's what I'm thinking. Okay, I'm still looking through that game, but it seems like the Assassin's War (dune ;P) ended too early for any real damage to be dealt. Ninja's could be an extreamly powerful weapon if they decided to ally with a faction in exchange for protection. Ninja Ally's with Mafia: We're screwed. The mafia gets a nice Vigilante/DT rolled into one, and the Ninja get's protection from Mafia night kills, and hopes the other Ninja's die before he does. Ninja Ally's with Town: Town can arrange Medic Protection, and the Ninja can draw upon the DT. So basically invincible ninja. The town gets the Vigilante/DT. Ninja gets caught by the DT: This would be the best case scenario. The DT could threaten to expose the Ninja, so the Ninja is forced to ally with the DT. So basically we have to identify the Ninja's ASAP and get them under Town control Yes, because it completely makes sense for the DT to threaten to expose the ninja. Because the DT could do that without exposing himself. Clearly. On August 06 2010 12:11 bumatlarge wrote:If this one is half as epic as the nonsense last game, I will be satisfied. Already so many posts, hopefully I can keep up at this rate... So many new faces Lynching an inactive is the usual order of things, an initial list of who isnt posting is a decent path to go. But lets assume that everyone will post, so keep tabs on the quality of posts. If someone is posting alot but squekin by on the quality department, thats a solid candidate. And I think we have alot of new players, so just in case you dont know what to post: - Try not to make useless posts unless your HILARIOUS like me. - If you dont know where to start, just speculate about the blue roles and ideas. Scared about that? Give opinions about other ideas! Just pour your heart out and if you are completely honest, you'll gain some cred in the view of the town. EVEN IF YOU ARE A GREENIE, MAKE BELIEVE YOU ARE BLUE. But just dont lie, lying is bad  (see citizen in XXVIII, even though it was kinda justified). I think it hit me when last game how well BC and his scummers were sniping roles based on posts. If you can think like you are the most important when you post, you will be such a threat to mafia. In a previous game, I said "Dont be afraid to die" but I guess that can be misleading, because I dont want you running out there saying "LYNCH ME" -_- just be willing to put yourself on the chopping block if you really disagree with what someone says or does. - You know what you are, so use you're own gut feelings on things. Dont listen to what ANYONE else says, unless you can see the benefits yourself. If I am certain scum in your eyes, and no one else thinks so, you have an obligation to make sure that I die, or die trying. I don't believe anyone here is stupid, or else you wouldnt be on TL. - If you are blue, again use your own judgement, and blend in as much as possible. Do what you gotta do, post like you think you should to stay alive. - If you are mafia, try to hit your own team members with some convoluted plan, frame the roleblocker, or roleblock the framer. Thats how you win as mafia. Im posting this chunk because I am not sure how active I'll be tomorrow due to work from 9-5 and then another job from 6-11 + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2010 11:35 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 11:20 Divinek wrote:
darth are you gonna play normal this game, or at least not like last game
pleeeeeeease I don't know what you're talking about. Just thinking about balance, I think it's likely that we have 1 of each blue role? And probably 3-4 ninjas in the game, I'd lean toward 3. Look here for a comparison. Ninjas = Assassins, essentially. With a roleblocker + framer, something like 7 to 9 blue roles sounds right. Framer essentially replaces millers from previous games, except gives a little more power to the mafia. Roleblocker is standard. What makes things interesting is the ninjas. Not sure how that messes up balance. Discussion, go! And for the record: I am always for lynching inactives. Hmmm this seems incredibly scummy, FoS on you... I kid you darth, ninjas seem just some desu ex machina for either side, increases chances for hilarious situations. I need to read more into the blue roles. DTA always looks scummy. He can't help it. You can't FoS someone like that with one post. It almost never works that way. And BC n' co. needed Subversion to run naked through the town with "DT" painted in blue on his chest before they hit someone of consequence. The mafia sucked at blue sniping last game. DT can use a proxy townie like was done last game with Zeks and lakrismamma. Also, how did the mafia suck at blue sniping last game? They got every single blue long before the end of the game (and the end of the game was significantly shortened BECAUSE they sniped every blue). You were the one playing like a total scrub early game, linking pretty much all the blues together and accusing them as a group of scum (remember your PM parade telling everyone to lynch Subversion?). I hope people don't use PMs to the same effect this game, I'd say stay very wary of most PMs early game (case in point: Subversion revealing to Pandain that he was DT without having checked Pandain, Pandain was in fact a miller, but still could have been very dangerous). I never found out how Subversion's DT role got leaked, that was well and truly stupid as fuck.
This was about last game, nothing relevant.
On August 06 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 13:41 bumatlarge wrote:
No cheezedoodle, I will not accept your methods this game, I better see some quality posting, or extremely awesome chez posts at least. Dont try to justify it young. Why are you being so hard on Chez? I mean he's not BAD, but when people try to imitate him it's bad (case in point: DTA last game). I don't see why you're trying to force him to change his play when it works for him. Yeah it's annoying but if it works, it works. What's the bet that if Chez does change his style, bum will accuse him of being scum because of his changed ways?
On August 06 2010 14:15 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2010 13:54 bumatlarge wrote:On August 06 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote:On August 06 2010 13:41 bumatlarge wrote:
No cheezedoodle, I will not accept your methods this game, I better see some quality posting, or extremely awesome chez posts at least. Dont try to justify it young. Why are you being so hard on Chez? I mean he's not BAD, but when people try to imitate him it's bad (case in point: DTA last game). I don't see why you're trying to force him to change his play when it works for him. Yeah it's annoying but if it works, it works. What's the bet that if Chez does change his style, bum will accuse him of being scum because of his changed ways? Wow I wasnt one to get on people's ass for what they said on the first day, but I may have to change that. If chez changes his style, I will eat my words. Ive seen him try to be smart about the game and succeed. You are justifying him again. If it works? He was red, and town doesnt lynch him eventually because hes being chezinu (has happened before). DOESNT WORK. Ok hes blue and hes trying to lead the scum astray, but gets lynched eventually. DOESNT WORK. Hes green, and mafia wont touch him anyway, town lynches him eventually, and although hes not blue, still a wasted lynch. DOESNT WORK. Or can I assume that by "it works", you mean it works for mafia. Im not pointing a finger at you, but you excusing him is silly. Chez knows how to act normal. Dont egg him on. I'm not saying "LET'S NOT LYNCH CHEZ BECAUSE OF HIS STYLE! HE'S IMMUNE" I'm saying it's okay for him to play that way and anything that happens down the road that gives town cause to lynch him is fine, but immediately going to lynch him because of the way he always plays is dumb as fuck. Why don't you include the scenario where he possibly snipes a red? Bias bias bias. Look I'm not saying Chez isn't red, I'm just saying your reasoning for lynching him isn't valid at all.
Here he is kinda defending Chez (but he says he isn't) and is refuting bumatlarge's post. Nothing relevant to the game at all, just telling bumatlarge what Chez's style is. It may seem like he's contributing but all he's saying is "this is how Chez plays, he may be mafia, he may not be", he doesn't provide any insight one way or the other.
On August 06 2010 15:05 youngminii wrote:
Maybe we are posting a bit too much (I don't think it's as much as last game lol).. Isn't the whole point of all this to generate discussion though? I mean, what else are we going to do, sit around and twiddle our thumbs?
I found this post to be odd because it doesn't make sense. Here we have a spammer saying "let's not post" even though we all know posting generates discussion which is better for the town. He asks a lot of questions, just as a hesitant mafia would.
On August 06 2010 18:43 youngminii wrote:
Okay apparently BM can't see what's wrong with his plan. I shall outline them for you.
If you are scum, we lose instantly.
If you are town, 6 people will lie and you won't know who lied and who didn't and you can't publicly reveal them without exposing their identity.
What are you going to do when all 6 scum claims town? Hmm? Oh right, nothing.
Do you really, really, really think every single person will claim to you? Do you know how hard organisation is, especially on a forum?
What are you going to do when the framer frames people? Uh oh.
Can't be fucked listing anymore.
May seem like a contribution, but he only repeated what had already been said by Pyrry, DTA, and others. Plus he just gives quick reasoning, instead of going into detail on possible scenarios as everyone else had done. This is typical of mafia behavior, they repeat what's already been said to make it look like they care and that they are contributing. And they do this without adding in thoughts of their own.
On August 07 2010 20:16 youngminii wrote:
I don't like the plan.
What BM, are you gonna label me as red? So if anyone doesn't agree with your play, you label them as red. That's fucking ridiculous.
Do you really want to see how a Day 1 plan turns out? It doesn't turn out well. Just because you think you've come up with some god awesome plan that'll save everyone doesn't mean it will. And you don't go FoSing everyone that doesn't want to use it. Let me tell you now, I'm good at finding out whether people are scum or not, remember Godfather mafia? Yeah I destroyed that game. Now hopefully I'll be able to weed out scum again but you going on about this god damn plan for 20 fucking pages doesn't help when the only fucking posts I can see are by you.
Here I would like to transition into his previous games. We know from Godfather mafia that he helped the town win enormously. He has promised here that he's going to be able to weed out scum but he has not done any of it yet. In fact he hasn't done any analysis so far. Compare to a post from godfather mafia:
On July 10 2010 18:09 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 17:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Truth be told I haven't been needed heavily the last day or so as youngmirii has done fairly well to lead the town.
You spelled my name wrong While I'm not ruling out BC as a townie, I'm not convinced he's scum and I think there are other people that we should concentrate on, namely BM's four. The best play on scum's end would be to get rid of the DT (ie. me). Scum knows that I'm DT but they also know they can't touch me because of the jailing. The only way they can get rid of me for now is to sacrifice their KP for two nights. Hence my suspicions lead me to YI. He's the one who suggested/pushed forward the idea to roleblock me. As scum, he knows I am a DT and the best way to neutralize my ability is to roleblock me, knowing that he can't touch me otherwise. Sacrificing KP is a major blow to scum so instead of that, blocking me is the best option. Now I would have liked to see what his reaction would have been after finding out I was roleblocked (maybe I should've faked it) but since that's too late, there's no other place for me to lay my accusations. So if we end up lynching someone other than YI (like BB) then my check will go to YI tonight.
Here we see analysis youngminii style. Actively laying out scenario and figuring out who's most suspicious. We see this again:
[SPOILER]On July 24 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote:
My case on Chaoser.
+ Show Spoiler +Let us delve into the mind of scum. The pattern for a normal, general scum that doesn't go out of his way to do anything out of the ordinary is quite simple. Lay low on the first day or two and slowly come out with accusations. Be very careful of jumping on bandwagons as it may arouse suspicion. Rather than openly coming out and making a case on someone on the first day/two, try to find someone that is making a fool of themselves and make a small case to see if it gains momentum. I think we can all agree that this is a standard way of playing as scum, keeps the suspicion low while still contributing information. Now let us look at chaoser's early game. One of his first posts is to abstain. This vote does not change for the entire day. Fits perfectly in line with my 'lay low' theory, especially (as the wonderful Pandain pointed out) as chaoser was so against my 'no lynch' strategy. One would have to wonder why he didn't simply vote for someone if he was so against it. He raises the counter argument that voting to abstain is different from voting to no lynch, which is a moot point in my opinion really. I think it's less about the days and more about the fact that we get tons of information from looking at vote lists Cool, chaoser wants information from voting lists on the first day. In fact, he even points this out to the public. So why does he not vote for anyone? Oh right, abstaining doesn't label you as 'against' someone. Good stuff in my opinion, I'd probably do it too if I was scum. So up until early Day 2, chaoser continues to bring in a wealth of information (such as the voting history of certain people etc.) but doesn't actually accuse anyone. All he does is make some accusatory comment that doesn't really have any flair to it. See below. chaoser to BB: So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? So early on in Day 2, after a small group of people (Divinek, DTA and Amber[light]) already vote for BB, chaoser joins in and mounts a small case against BB. + Show Spoiler +And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes.
I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? After a page or two a LOT of people jump on the bandwagon. It's uncanny. Chaoser realises that if BB is lynched and he flips town then things will look bad for him, so he switches his vote to Subversion, another bandwagon being formed at the time. It's funny, after using that argument against BB he immediately switches to Subversion after seeing the possibility that he might be labeled as mafia (note: someone actually said that the '3rd/4th person on the bandwagon tends to be mafia' and could have affected chaoser's thoughts). The argument he uses against Subversion is one that has already gained traction from BC/Protractinium and so it's easy to ride with. Pandain then mounts an argument against chaoser, who responds by responding to each and every point. I believe they continue this argument via PM and sort it out there and Pandain drops his case on chaoser (I attribute this to Pandain being new to this game and not being very good at picking out lies/deceit etc.). Anyway, what does chaoser do now? Of course, he abstains. Oh, the joy of not really voting for anyone. A common trait of mafia is that they won't contribute too much in the accusations etc. early on. They will however, try and 'appear' to be useful by posting stuff that doesn't really cause them any risk in any way (ie. pointing at someone of being scum). They will often side with someone else or pick on a player that seems to be causing a ruckus which won't be seen as suspicious. In addition to this, scum will go to great lengths to defend themselves. Think about it (directed at newer players), if you are scum you are much more willing to come back to this thread and try to shake off any accusations against you. This is why RVS is quite helpful in smaller games. Often scum will 'lurk' meaning they'll browse around, read everything but won't post too much in order to stay under the radar. However, accusing them and voting for them will force them to come out and defend themselves profusely. We can see this in DTA, he was town and everyone started voting for him. He didn't reply in the thread for a looooooong time (I actually pointed this out but I was ignored /yay), indicating that he was in fact, not lurking but actually AWOL, which is a townie trait. Chaoser falls into the above mafia category. He immediately comes out of his 'useful/informative' shell and starts defending himself a LOT. His posts start becoming a lot of the 'discussion' going on. This continues for a long time, only defending himself and never accusing anyone asides from the occasional "your arguments are weak, why are you trying to get me lynched so bad? Are you scum?" type of argument. Now it's actually really painful to go through skimming page by page but the general trend I see right now is that a lot of people start jumping on the chaoser bandwagon. It's funny, he votes for DTA because he's getting a lot of votes for him. He then states: From reading this, I'll change my vote to Subversion even though that means I'll 100% die.
Darth, if you wanna help me, you could switch it over too and I think he'll be first.
##unvote
##vote Subversion Look at this from a scum perspective. He knows DTA is town. He knows that if DTA is lynched then he'll get an even worse image than before. So what does he do? He tries to side with DTA to lynch someone else that already has a lot of people voting for him. This is actually a good play by mafia as he had already taken the side of voting for Subversion earlier so if questioned, he could retaliate by saying "I already had my suspicions on Subversion before!" + Show Spoiler +On an unrelated side note, I find it funny how people are so quick to link me to Subversion (tree.hugger especially) because I defended him a bit whilst nobody links me to DTA's town and Hyperbola's town when I actually gave them proper defenses. Quite ridiculous imo. Blah blah DTA ends up getting lynched (one of the final votes by chaoser, although it could be argued that he did it to save himself) and ends up flipping town. I know I've always been wary of chaoser but I'd like everyone to read my analysis of him. I'm not going to analyse Night 3 'cause that was just a big spam fest and lots of people probably have an ill image of me now. I'd just like you all to trust me for once (I was right on hyperbola/DTA even though it doesn't mean anything, yes I know) and vote for chaoser. I would also like to mention that I believe infundlibsuvxkum and chaoser are linked but that discussion can be saved for another time.
Outside of the obvious fact that he's posting long stuff in this game, we see him actually doing analysis. Yes there is flaming in there as we would expect, but we still see him doing analysis of other people. This is good analysis he does, and he's yet to do any of that this game.
Youngminii's attitude this game is very different from his past games. While the spam amount may be relatively the same, in the past youngminii actively analyzed people. This game he hasn't made any contribution and has only repeated what's already been said.
I accused youngminii in order to see how he would react. Read my previous post where I talk about pressuring people. His response to my accusations is not good for him. He starts by instantly accusing me and backing up Pyrry's fallacious arguments. He then proceeds to just spam away arguments against me.
On August 09 2010 13:44 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 13:41 Foolishness wrote:On August 09 2010 13:38 youngminii wrote:
God damnit I'm busy for like a day and there's 3948234 pages to read. Can someone post a summary of what's happened? Your team hit me. I took the hit like a man. Now I'm going to get you lynched. What the fuck are you talking about lmfao. I haven't even been on in a day or so and you automatically assume I'm scum because you got hit. You know what I think? I think you faked the hit. I don't even know why you want me lynched, maybe you're scum and you think I'm not worth a night hit so you go for a lynch.
On August 09 2010 13:54 youngminii wrote:
Oh okay EXCUSE ME for trying to spam less, I'll be sure to go back to my last game style and spam the crap out of this thread.
I've been busy with uni, thank you very much. And what have you contributed besides accusing me? Fake claiming doesn't count.
On August 09 2010 14:08 youngminii wrote:
Why are we voting Divinek?
If we're gonna vote for someone completely random with no plan and no hard evidence I suggest foolishness. If he really is Vet, well he's lost his usefulness since he already soaked up a hit but I think he's scum trying to look active and pointing fingers everywhere. Obviously I have no evidence so if people want to vote someone else, be my guest but there's as much chance that foolishness is scum as Divinek/BM being scum.
Better get rid of foolishness now if he really is fake claiming then trust him later (assuming he is scum).
Part of this I totally expected. It's youngminii, if I accuse him, he's going to call me stupid and spam. However notice that he really never denies my accusation, he never claims to be innocent or deny being mafia. Instead he just spams "lynch foolishness, lynch foolishness". There's also no hard analysis against me. We saw in the previous games that he's very capable of doing analysis on players, yet all he has to say about me is that I'm useless and that I've faked claim for sure. No analysis at all, he just says I'm faking my claim.
The important thing is that he still hasn't contributed. He immediately calls me a liar and says we need to lynch me. No behavior analysis (which we know he is capable of). Not to mention after the town got distracted off of him, he vanished again. Yes, not conclusive, but still convenient that once he saw it was a legit threat he vanished into lurking.
Finally, Divinek pointed out his slip up:
On August 09 2010 14:34 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 14:29 youngminii wrote:
I don't understand how you guys can automatically assume he's a confirmed townie. I feel no "townie vibes" coming off him, his posts aren't hugely scummy but afaik he's a good player. cool story bro
This slip up is more than enough reason to vote for him. He says I need to be lynched, then says my posts aren't scummy, then votes for me. That's classic mafia reaction.
Summary: youngminii has not contributed all this game. We've seen in his past games that he is very capable of doing analysis on players. He was a big help in the town in in Godfather mafia. His final slip up at the end shows his overreaction to my accusation and only builds upon the case that he is mafia. youngminii is mafia
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 damn lol, epic
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That is some stale copypasta, Foolishness.
Here is some fresh stuff:
I have heard from multiple sources that Pandain has claimed ninja; a number of these sources claim that this is a fake claim.
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On August 10 2010 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
That is some stale copypasta, Foolishness.
Here is some fresh stuff:
I have heard from multiple sources that Pandain has claimed ninja; a number of these sources claim that this is a fake claim.
well lets not draws too much attention away from the matter at hand now
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On August 10 2010 14:31 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
That is some stale copypasta, Foolishness.
Here is some fresh stuff:
I have heard from multiple sources that Pandain has claimed ninja; a number of these sources claim that this is a fake claim. well lets not draws too much attention away from the matter at hand now
wat mad hatter?
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I am headed to bed... it has been a crazy day. I am afraid what I will see tomorrow.
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1. Chezinu
2. Bill Murray
3. Pandain
4. DarthThienAn
5. Divinek
6. youngminii
7. VayeshMoru
8. rastaban
9. Pyrrhuloxia
10. XeliN
11. love1another (Townie, Day 1 Lynch)
12. Amber[LighT] - WtF amber is playing too?
13. Chaoser (Nosy Neighbor, Night 1)
14. Artanis[Xp] - Yo....Post..
15. BrownBear
16. zeks - Zeks is mafia.
17. KF91 - ....You're playing?
18. bumatlarge - I see you posting....
19. Foolishness - I believe he's veteran.
20. iNfuNdiBuLuM
21. Iaaan (Townie, Day 1 Modkill)
22. LSB (Townie, Night 1)
23. ~OpZ~ - STFU
24. Misder - Post
25. tree.hugger
26. Jayme - ....When is his last post?
27. Roffles - Wtf Roffles...Post again god damn....
28. Hesmyrr - ...I told you...
29. SouthRawrea - Post something intelligent...
30. larjarse - Post more
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telling people to post more doesnt work
voting for them does though
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Well then I'm fine voting for KF91, Jayme, Roffles, Larjarse.
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On August 10 2010 14:13 Foolishness wrote:
Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's mafia. Bill Murray does retarded plans when he's town.
I only do them to get information flowing.
On August 10 2010 13:10 BrownBear wrote:
##Unvote
Vote: Bill Murray
You do NOT do something like that. You know better.
what's worse, getting the medic to protect you? forcing them to doublestack on you? or lynching someone like me who is trying to help the town? you tell me. how about me calling you out on a childish vote? is that good play?
On August 10 2010 14:52 Divinek wrote:
telling people to post more doesnt work
voting for them does though
well, i'm posting, yet people keep voting me
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EPT
